POLL: Is Floyd A Top 10 ATG In Your Opinion?

No need to leave a comment just vote.......

Do we really need this..??

No we don't..There is a thread on page two or three......Where people entered their top 10s...... and one not so long ago where he was 11 by consensus..........

I suggest the op looks there..

TopHat24/7 wrote:Do we really need this..??

It's only a poll.

I don't remember a proper poll of this question being done before.

It only takes a second to click yes or no.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No we don't..There is a thread on page two or three......Where people entered their top 10s......  and one not so long ago where he was 11 by consensus..........

I suggest the op looks there..

There's nothing to be concerned with its only an anonymous poll.

Don't see the point mate...

Means nothing to me what more than say a handful of posters on here think..

Very few on here have heard of some of the lower reaches of the top 10 alltimers...As well you know....

Myself, The Captain, Mobile and Chris have him top 10............Rowley, Haz, Hammer, Hampo, Milky types don't.....

Sorry If I've missed out anybody....decent !!

and that's fair enough..............He's a divisive guy..........

A poll invites Dave669, Izzy, Pedro and types like yourself to vote....

Making it meaningless in the extreme....

Unless Floyd gets over 50% then it's a great poll...  

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Do we really need this..??

It's only a poll.

I don't remember a proper poll of this question being done before.

It only takes a second to click yes or no.

The issue has been debated, ad nauseam, in the past. And as per Truss' post, the question has already been recently answered when people submitted their ATG Top 20s.

I did click, and clicked no, as he falls in the 11-15 bunch for me (but the top end of it) as he will always be knocked/docked (in my eyes) for not taking the biggest challenges at the best times. Same as if SRL had never fought Hearns or Hagler.

Only poll I voted on was the "Should TRUSSMAN be banned" one.

Makes me glad I have all those aliases...such a shame the Mods didn't bow to public opinion...and have him hounded out of the Country

Need an army to do that....

I voted yes on that poll as well..

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Do we really need this..??

It's only a poll.

I don't remember a proper poll of this question being done before.

It only takes a second to click yes or no.

The issue has been debated, ad nauseam, in the past.  And as per Truss' post, the question has already been recently answered when people submitted their ATG Top 20s.

I did click, and clicked no, as he falls in the 11-15 bunch for me (but the top end of it) as he will always be knocked/docked (in my eyes) for not taking the biggest challenges at the best times. Same as if SRL had never fought Hearns or Hagler.

There hasn't been a proper poll taken in recent times to my knowledge. Why not do a poll? It's a simple click of the mouse.

It's a bit cleaner than reading through a long thread measuring up who is a yes and who is a no.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Need an army to do that....

I voted yes on that poll as well..

Only reason for the Army would be the number of people it would require for a chain of cheeseburgers to be laid end to end from Didsbury to the airport.

They'd enjoy it too....make a change from lugging those sandbags around.

One direction are better than The rolling stones according to recent polls..

Yeah but that was Caroline Flack being polled about their bed-a-bility

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:One direction are better than The rolling stones according to recent polls..

I thought you were a democrat?

Let the people have their say. It's early days Floyd might still come out on top.

I don't give a f**k Mate either way..

Still it leaves Eddie and Haye alone for a little while....

I love a cheeseburger..

Sorry to burst your bubble Truss but you should know by now that I do have Mayweather in my top ten. A poll is a pretty redundant exercise, without accompanying it with an opinion, a yes or no means very little.

When I collated everybody's top 15 lists he came just outside the top ten, a more meaningful way of doing it.

You have gone up in my estimation...  

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Sorry to burst your bubble Truss but you should know by now that I do have Mayweather in my top ten. A poll is a pretty redundant exercise, without accompanying it with an opinion, a yes or no means very little.

When I collated everybody's top 15 lists he came just outside the top ten, a more meaningful way of doing it.

Exactly. Not sure what Strongy thinks this poll is proving or why he can't understand that.

He only has two fighters to talk about Toppy so resorts to yet another Mayweather article.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Sorry to burst your bubble Truss but you should know by now that I do have Mayweather in my top ten. A poll is a pretty redundant exercise, without accompanying it with an opinion, a yes or no means very little.

When I collated everybody's top 15 lists he came just outside the top ten, a more meaningful way of doing it.

Exactly.  Not sure what Strongy thinks this poll is proving or why he can't understand that.

Who would have thought a simple yes/no straw poll would have bothered people.

There is nothing clearer then yes or no.

Not many polls have NO before YES..........

Anyone who didn't know you could see it as an attempt to lead.......

Of course we know you to be fair and objective...

Can't judge till he's retired IMO so I voted no!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not many polls have NO before YES..........

Anyone who didn't know you could see it as an attempt to lead.......

Of course we know you to be fair and objective...

You give me too much credit.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Don't see the point mate...

Means nothing to me what more than say a handful of posters on here think..

Very few on here have heard of some of the lower reaches of the top 10 alltimers...As well you know....

Myself, The Captain, Mobile and Chris have him top 10............Rowley, Haz, Hammer, Hampo, Milky types don't.....

Sorry If I've missed out anybody....decent !!

and that's fair enough..............He's a divisive guy..........

A poll invites Dave669, Izzy, Pedro and types like yourself to vote....

Making it meaningless in the extreme....

Unless Floyd gets over 50% then it's a great poll...  

If you can point me in the direction of even one post where I've said that then go ahead

If you're not with them, you're against them. This has gone beyond fence sitting or indifference, pick a side.

Diamond in the rough wrote:Can't judge till he's retired IMO so I voted no!

I'm in this camp, I need to see how he finishes his career, he could finish with 5 real poor fights which would leave a very sour taste.

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Sorry to burst your bubble Truss but you should know by now that I do have Mayweather in my top ten. A poll is a pretty redundant exercise, without accompanying it with an opinion, a yes or no means very little.

When I collated everybody's top 15 lists he came just outside the top ten, a more meaningful way of doing it.

Exactly.  Not sure what Strongy thinks this poll is proving or why he can't understand that.

Who would have thought a simple yes/no straw poll would have bothered people.  

There is nothing clearer then yes or no.

Without reasoning or context it couldn't be less 'clear'. What does your poll add to/achieve that HH's consensus list doesn't/didn't?

Its just a poll, vote dont vote. Not worth getting in a 2 an 8 about.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Sorry to burst your bubble Truss but you should know by now that I do have Mayweather in my top ten. A poll is a pretty redundant exercise, without accompanying it with an opinion, a yes or no means very little.

When I collated everybody's top 15 lists he came just outside the top ten, a more meaningful way of doing it.

Exactly.  Not sure what Strongy thinks this poll is proving or why he can't understand that.

Who would have thought a simple yes/no straw poll would have bothered people.  

There is nothing clearer then yes or no.

Without reasoning or context it couldn't be less 'clear'.  What does your poll add to/achieve that HH's consensus list doesn't/didn't?

What? are you saying 3 or 4 people championing Mayweather on a long thread is a consensus?

Nay or yay has been used for millennia to make decisions. Jury's can debate all day long but eventually people will be asked to raise their hand one way or another. In relation to this board anyone who reads it regularly and follows boxing has, I am sure, formed their own opinion by now.

No, I'm saying a whole bunch of people submitting their lists, with reasoning, which are subsequently compiled to show that Mayweather is a v2 consensus #11 ATG is more relevant and telling than a bunch of random anonymous clicks that nobody takes more than a few seconds to think about.

I get it...............you like Floyd.

Ha, that comment will make Truss chuckle

Surely it would be more accurate to ask for a top ten list and calculate if Floyd shows up? At least that way, if you answer no- you have to have ten fighters you rate better than Floyd. With this method, I can say no... and never have use arithmetic reasoning

kingraf wrote:Surely it would be more accurate to ask for a top ten list and calculate if Floyd shows up? At least that way, if you answer no- you have to have ten fighters you rate better than Floyd. With this method, I can say no... and never have use arithmetic reasoning  

We (HH) already did that, hence my comments.

Not in top 10 for me, hasn't fought the level of opposition required to justify a place in top 10 ATG in my opinion.

Whilst it's true that a fighter can only beat what's put in front of him, Mayweather could, if he chose to, have a far better record than he has in terms of opposition faced and when they were faced.

Mayweather is supremely talented but for me is overrated.

A top 10 ATG should not have struggled with past their peak versions of Oscar, Cotto.

Nor should an ATG be pushed to the limit by a fighter such as Castillo, who although a formidable foe for anyone at that time, is not even a top 50 ATG.

The same can be said of Zab Judah, who was giving Floyd problems until he ran out of gas.

Floyd's defensive wizardry is much lauded but i would say he is behind Whitaker, Pep, Benitez, even RJJ.....would those fighters have been caught by an over the hill Mosley, or roughed up by Cotto??

He could have been a nailed on Top 10 if he'd continued his career the way it was progressing up until the Oscar fight.

Until the De La Hoya fight, Mayweather was taking on all comers, however after he displaced Oscar as the biggest draw in the sport he appears to have become more concerned with self preservation as opposed to cementing his legacy.

He still has a few fights left before he retires and can be judged on his career in it's entirety BUT if he continued to choose opposition such as Maidana he will do nothing to push himself into the historical echelons of the sport.

Other ATG's faced their toughest challengers and have other greats on their ledger, after Floyd's career is over, what will be considered his defining moments....a green Canelo...blown up Marquez...past it Oscar/Mosley?

Not enough on his record to have him Top 10 for me - perhaps has the talent, just not the will to push himself into that elite bracket.

Floyd's defensive wizardry is much lauded but i would say he is behind Whitaker, Pep, Benitez, even RJJ.....would those fighters have been caught by an over the hill Mosley, or roughed up by Cotto??

-----------

Think Tarver just about caught him.......

Robbo struggled with Turpin......and got caught plenty by Lamotta...

He's number 1 by consensus

Dear oh dear

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Robbo struggled with Turpin......and got caught plenty by Lamotta...

He's number 1 by consensus

Dear oh dear

Robinson had fought 9 times in the calendar year before losing to Turpin, Mayweather doesn't fight 9 times in a decade.

Cheers Rodders

You hate every fighter from the modern era..

If we hold mosley against Floyd...then Louis can't be top 100 with Galento..

Toppy I think that BA proved your point perfectly, saying he's not because of A, B and C is all well and good but who does he have inside his top ten.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Toppy I think that BA proved your point perfectly, saying he's not because of A, B and C is all well and good but who does he have inside his top ten.

Just for you HH.....in no particular order.

ALI
LOUIS
SUGAR RAY LEONARD
SUGAR RAY ROBINSON
ROBERTO DURAN
WILLIE PEP
ARMSTRONG
GANS
GREB
LANGFORD

Although not on the list, i would also rate Ezzard Charles, Benny Leonard, Whitaker, JCC, Archie Moore above Floyd.

Honourable mention to RJJ. Despite his lack of top level opposition, i'd rate him above Floyd in terms of sheer talent alone, however a win against BHOP and a heavyweight strap gives him a marked edge in my opinion.

ESPN'S 50 greatest boxers poll from 2007 has Floyd at 48 - since 2007 Mayweather has beaten an over the hill Oscar, Ricky Fatton, a blown up Marquez, a 38 year old Mosley, Ortiz, past his peak Cotto, Guererro and hype job Alvarez.

Whilst that list is subjective, does this series of fights warrant Floyd jumping nearly 40 places and into the top 10 ATG.

I would have Floyd alongside Pacquiao, both have won numerous titles, in an age where titles are not as meaningful. Pacqiuao has the better names on his record, whilst Mayweather remains undefeated and has been more dominant of late

Using your criteria how do you have Duran in your top ten when he lost to Laing, Sims and De Jesus, surely that is worse than beating past their bests De La Hoya and Cotto?

As soon I see Ricky Fatton, the rest of the post becomes a bit meaningless.

As for Gans and Pep simply no.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Using your criteria how do you have Duran in your top ten when he lost to Laing, Sims and De Jesus, surely that is worse than beating past their bests De La Hoya and Cotto?

As soon I see Ricky Fatton, the rest of the post becomes a bit meaningless.

As for Gans and Pep simply no.

He is worthy of his inclusion on his lightweight career alone.

His win against SRL is an achievement far in excess of anything Floyd has managed to accomplish to date

Is that reason enough?

I would say being an undefeated five weight world champion more than makes up for beating Cotto and De La Hoya fairly comfortably. I'm not sure why struggling in one fight in a 45 fight career matters so much and that was the first Castillo fight but is that any worse than losing to De Jesus for instance?

Durans lightweight career on it's own isn't enough for inclusion in a top 20, it's the win over Leonard that propels him. Why not mention his struggles with De Jesus or the fact he lost to average fighters, why focus on the negatives of one but only the positives of the other?

I have Duran marginally above Mayweather but there's not much in it. I can't really take any list that Charles outside the top 5 that seriously but not to have him in the top ten at all is absurd.

If you have Duran marginally above Mayweather then presumably you also have him in your top 10...

Being undefeated is irrelevant, ottke retired undefeated.

Being a five weight world champion has no bearing on his historical standing in the sport, Pacqiao supposedly has 8 titles to his name.

I am not ignoring Floyd's positives, the fact is when you analyse his record it really is nothing special. He has been elevated to an ATG status undeservedly in my opinion.

His opposition, particularly in the past few years has been generally poor.

Names such as Mosley, Marquez, De la hoya, Cotto etc look good on his record but none of these fighters were at their peak when Floyd faced them, whether that is his fault or not is wholly irrelevant.

Floyd is judged on the perception of his talent, which admittedly appears supreme HOWEVER appearances can be deceptive.

Without contests against fellow greats at their peak to measure him against then judging his greatness is always going to be highly subjective.

If he were to lose at this point in his career what would that do to his historical standing?? i would suggest it would tumble because he hasn't got enough quality opposition to fall back on.

Too much emphasis is put on his zero in my opinion

On what basis do you have Gans and Pep top then, what fellow greats did they beat because the best opponents the pair faced they have a losing record against?

Were Mayweather to lose right now it would have zero bearing on his historical standing, he's nearing 37 years of age, do tell me how your top ten were performing at that age?

As for his opposition being poor that just isn't true, it could have been better but that doesn't make it poor and it doesn't make his opponents poor fighters.

Floyd's age isn't a factor, it is widely acknowledged that he is still fighting somewhere near his peak.

I fail to see what point your trying to make by asking what my top ten were doing at 37??

It has no bearing on their historical standing because unlike Floyd, they have enough accomplishments to fall back, that it's irrelevant.

Take Ali for example, wins against Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Patterson, Norton, far outweigh his later losses.

What peak names does Floyd have to counter balance against a loss before he retires next year?? Oscar, Marquez, or perhaps a 38 year old Mosley?

His opposition isn't poor, it's just not good enough to warrant a place in a conversation about a top 10 ATG.

Furthermore his opponents aren't poor fighters, it's just that Floyd fought the majority of them when they were either past it or not at their peak weight

What in your opinion are Floyd's defining wins?

Apart from being undefeated and a five weight world champion, which iv already demonstrated is not wholly relevant, on what basis do you have him in your top ten?

You have it right B.A, my mohawked friend. More to greatness than an unbeaten recor. Mayweathers systematic safety first approach to his opponents leaves him way short of the true greats. Greatness is in fighting your greatest rivals, not making excuses for avoiding them, fighting them when they are past it and looking out for the next Mexican/Texican to market. What Mayweather did in his era pales in comparison to the Leonards and Durans. He never had a Leonard or Duran of course, but the closest thing he had to one he made up more excuses to prevent facing than he has dollars in the bank.

I remember when de la Hoya was on the rise and the hype about him was on a similar level. He started off his career in a similar manner to what Mayweather is doing now. Fighting past it legends like Chavez, Macho Camacho and Whitaker to build him up and increase his marketability. Plenty were saying similar things as they say about Mayweather - one of the best of all time, top ten, possibly even the greatest, pound for pound this, multi weight that. Some of the shrewder boxing heads could see past the hype but there was much of a willing audience who wanted to hear at the time. With de la Hoya the hyperbole seems to have cooled significanty nowadays though. But in fairness to de la Hoya he stepped up and fought his big rivals and it became clear he wasnt as good as the hype made out. Mayweather never did this, and he had a weaker era than de la Hoya ever had. Mayweathers list of victories is similar to de la Hoyas. He doesnt have the defeats of course, but then he never risked them and nor did he have the same calibre of opponents by and large. The one significant one he had he was satisfied with making more money than him. Although I suspect as soon as Pacquiao looks past it enough for Mayweathers liking then that fight will get made.

Best marketed career of all time, probably the richest boxer of all time, made a lot easier in this day and age where there is a delicious "pound for pound" or "multi weight" tag for practically every meaningful fight. Excellent fighter too but flattered by his record and carefully selected fights.

Was going to refute Baracus points till I saw his list.

Robinson behind Louis makes it a waste of time..

He did say they were in no particular order in fairness, beefster. Don't whip out the '170 pound Conn' line just yet!