Ireland v France - The 6N decider

First topic message reminder :

With such a strong points advantage if Ireland can just win in Paris then the Championship is there's. Now it's never been a happy hunting ground for Ireland - can they do it?

I think it's there year and I'm going to say yes.

Did Gerry know about Madigan in advance?

Just realised, if France do beat Ireland they'll be at least 2nd this year   Want Ireland to win even more now.

MunsterMac wrote:

Of course now you're going to tell us all who your inside mole is - because for a cert, you've got one...or...you're Madigan - or - you're Jackson.

Or he is Gerry Thornley - or - he reads Gerry Thornley - or - listens to Gerry Thornley.

Sorry but not even the G-man predicted that one, check it yourself!

POM won't win the player of the tournament.

He went missing vs England.

BlueMuff wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Ferris, SOB and Heaslip every day of the week. POM on the bench.

That would be mine too.  POM isn't as controlled as Heaslip...and yet has tons of hot-blood to make a second half visitation count.

Get over it lads. POM is already on the shortlist for player of the tournament let alone best Irish player after 2 mom performances in the first 2 games.

To be fair IF Ferris as good he was comes back he'd start because we have no real power athletes. As good as O'Mahony is he just doesn't have the power and pace of Ferris. Then you're not going to drop Heaslip- O'Mahony could move across to 7 though, with O'Brien on the bench or Ferris on the bench and POM/SOB at 7 and 8. But yeah, I'd definitely pick Ferris and Heaslip myself. Then it's down to the game plan whether it's O'Brien or O'Mahony.

It's good that we could be in a situation where a really top class player can't make the team. We already have it in the back three.

Imagine if we had to play France with Parra and Trinh-Duc at halfback, Picamoles at 8 and an actual blindside at 6. So why am I not brimming with confidence?

http://whiffofcordite.com/2014/03/12/psychiatrists-couch/

Everyone agrees France are a a rabble, albeit a rabble with some real danger men, but the game between Ireland and Irelands demons will be much, much closer!

Paris is the graveyard of Ireland teams. Remember there's been many times we beat all the others only to fall in Paris. This time we've already lost one. I think they'll rack up an early lead. Then we'll perform quite well to close the gap, but it won't be enough.

I don't think it's exaggerating at all to say that France's always play their best game against Ireland in Paris. Why I don't know. They just love playing us.

Just mentally preparing ye for any disappointments lads.

I don't see it. They are just so, so bad at rugby right now and they don't seem to have much desire to improve.

Logically we should have a great chance. But fear of the French is knitted into the tissue of my brain beyond the reach of the logical part. Did you know that when we beat them at home in 2009 it was the first and only time the Paul O'Connell has ever beaten them. They do look bad now. But they love playing us.

I feel the same way about the Irish. But look at us now? Three wins in a row

Don't know, just don't know. Earlier in week was pretty sure that France would do it but they are incredibly flaky and Ireland are an incredibly good team. Suffice to say if Ireland win they'll take the Championship and they'll deserve it. I'll be pleased for BOD too if that's the way it has to be. Looking forward to Saturday though, that much is for sure.

I think it's actually four hammer.

You're not making me feel any better by the way.

I don't count the WC warm up but remember the 2011 6N game

I started watching rugby properly in 2005-06 season. I will always expect to lose to the Irish I expect. Too many years of losing. I don't doubt you will always have the same feeling with the French. They may well decide to pull a game out of their backside but you've probably been the best team in competition. If you stick to basics and just play rugby I think you will win comfortably.

I hope the French do pull out a performance but you win anyway. I'm sure you'd prefer a win against a French side playing their best, rather than the Poopie they've put out against everyone else. Although I'm certain you'll take a win against that Poopie side rather than a lose to them performing well

MunsterMac wrote:Still off topic but something I've been pondering for a while.

If, as we all hope, Ferris comes back and reaches his former level what would the best Irish back row be?

Mine would be 6 Ferris, 7 SOB and 8 POM.

Mine would be to keep what we have and let the rest fight it out. POM, Henry and Heaslip is the best backrow we have ever had. Perfectly balanced and a great cohesive unit at last.

Ferris? No way, leave him to end his days at Ulster. International level is too much for a man who breaks like tissue-paper. SOB? Let him win his place back. At 6. Not 7. Henry stays.

Stop with this Ferris and SOB shoite already. Big bustling ball-carriers are 10-a-penny. We need an intelligent unit.

And another thing. Stop with this Ireland are inherently scared shoiteless of France and the past will come back to haunt us, already... yadaphookingyada. Meeja bollix.

Its Schmidt. And Plum. Its a new Irish team. A group of players who win away in England & France for fun, for their provinces. France are run by a directionless eejit. We are run by  Mister Rugby.

This is key.

Ireland by 15.

And I mean that. We will overrun them. Its on the cards. That's why Maddser has been called up. To finish em off.

Believe.

We managed to draw with them over the last two years when we were an absolute shambles of a team. Granted France weren't in a great shape either. Difference is we've got our house in order whereas they are still in disarray.

Schmidt will have them mentally ready

Ireland by 10

BODs not walking off that pitch without a championship

PredictorofTeams wrote:

MunsterMac wrote:

Of course now you're going to tell us all who your inside mole is - because for a cert, you've got one...or...you're Madigan - or - you're Jackson.

Or he is Gerry Thornley - or - he reads Gerry Thornley - or - listens to Gerry Thornley.

Sorry but not even the G-man predicted that one, check it yourself!

The Predictor predicted. Respect.   

This one week is taking longer than either of the two week breaks!  Not that I'm wishing my life away but the talk is over.  I just want to see how it all pans out now.

Two warm up games first (for my mind, that is - not suggesting they are lesser games for their fans).... and I can relax a bit for most of the day and yet still enjoy some rugby.  And then.  Nervous exhaustion for 80 minutes.  
Ireland Can win, and even Can win by enough if England give us a reasonable target to hunt for.  We came within three points of England (the most technically complete and frenetically mobile team in the tournament at their home base.)  
If France Do reach a level of form they haven't shown yet this season, then I believe it will still be below the levels England threw at us.  They'll be dangerous and Ireland will have to do 'England game' Mark 2 to compete with them if they show up.  But they too will be worried about us sustaining the game we play... and trying to devise plans to keep with us.

Ireland Can win this................... but............

This really is a coming of age moment, regardless of how the Irish players downgrade its significance.  The game will need to be won, which is task enough for any side, as England has already found out.  But Ireland will also have another piece of History that it has to beat in order to move on to the next stage.  We pass France in Paris  and then we have a team that really do have faith in their abilities again.  The tougher the game, the more ready France are, the better really it would be for our long term benefit.  
France meanwhile will be doing everything they can to sow the seeds of doubt.  In Irish terms, this is the second biggest psychological hurdle since the close-run game against the All Blacks.  We simply have to pass it or Schmidt is genuinely back to square one in his preparations for the WC.

Gibson wrote:And another thing. Stop with this Ireland are inherently scared shoiteless of France and the past will come back to haunt us, already... yadaphookingyada. Meeja bollix.

Its Schmidt. And Plum. Its a new Irish team. A group of players who win away in England & France for fun, for their provinces. France are run by a directionless eejit. We are run by  Mister Rugby.

This is key.

Ireland by 15.

And I mean that. We will overrun them. Its on the cards. That's why Maddser has been called up. To finish em off.

Believe.

I seem to recall you posting something very similar before the England game. Just sayin'

Gibson wrote:

MunsterMac wrote:Still off topic but something I've been pondering for a while.

If, as we all hope, Ferris comes back and reaches his former level what would the best Irish back row be?

Mine would be 6 Ferris, 7 SOB and 8 POM.

Mine would be to keep what we have and let the rest fight it out. POM, Henry and Heaslip is the best backrow we have ever had. Perfectly balanced and a great cohesive unit at last.

Ferris? No way, leave him  to end his days at Ulster. International level is too much for a man who breaks like tissue-paper. SOB? Let him win his place back. At 6. Not 7. Henry stays.

Stop with this Ferris and SOB shoite already. Big bustling ball-carriers are 10-a-penny. We need an intelligent unit.  

Finally the voice of sense - 606 was starting to become a graveyard for dribble. Gibson mo chara <largebottleofthetopshelf>

What's dribble? Do you mean drivel?

Anyway, clearly SOB and Ferris will walk back into the team if they are at their best. Henry and POM have done really really well but they arent at the same level.

Best back row performance ever from an Irish team was Ireland v Australia in the world cup. The reality is they would all get game time probably.

Big busting ball carriers are 10 a penny? We have maybe one in the entire squad right now... and he's still learning at this level.

I'll refer Gibbo and BlueMuff to Cyril's comment that is placed nicely between their two.

We lost to England.  

So our best balanced backrow ever is still not good enough, might be the conclusion

We'll need more experimenting before this debate is concluded because losing isn't winning.

If we were playing England or SA I'd much prefer SOB, Ferris and Heaslip.

Gibbo, it's all about balance my friend. It's the key to this backrow malarky. I've said it before and I'll say it again until the cows come home. Not to my home though. I've a restraining order. Can't go within 50 feet of Myrtle Moo or feel the wrath of Johnny Law. There's no accountability of our bovine overlords and when someone takes the law into their own hands suddenly they feel the cold lady fingers of Lady Justice upon their shoulder.

Henry is a decent international. That's all he'll ever be. But the unit is better than at any since since Wallace retired. Ah, David Wallace. I'd let him marry my daughter if I had one. He can have my granny. I'm a giver.

If Ferris and SOB get back to their best they are better players than Henry and POM. It's obvious. It's not even a debate. But will the backrow and pack be any better for their inclusion? That's the question. Let's have Schmidt sort it out. Let's hope he has the problem to wrestle with. The poor little sausage. He might even have too many good players to choose from.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:He might even have too many good players to choose from.

  
Yeah.  It at least should be his stock answer that he has ready for any loss to France:

"Jeees.... yeeeaahhhhhhhh!  That was................... that was disheartening in many ways.  It's just............ we paid the price of having too many quality players...and me having a headache trying to choose which of them to play.  But BOD, he's fantastic again for us.  Pity his seven tries and four assists weren't enough."

going to be a fun match! lots of nerves and tension methinks.

france's lineout will be 200% better than vs scotland (szarzewski + picamoles back)

france's 11-15 are dangerous, irrespective of 9/10. hope ireland dont kick to them too much unless its with a really good chase.

and their pack is big and strong, and not going to run out of juice as they have 6 forwards on the bench! (might lose shape though admittedly).

gibbo, much as i'd like to see ireland play chamagne rugby and win by 15, i just dont see it. Ireland wont be able to get much change out of the french defensive line i think. and France do not have a dogmatic plan A only like Wales, which if neutralised ensures the result.

i think it's going to be gnarly, determined by penalties conceded at breakdown, loose/inaccurate kicking from hand, and moments of brilliance in counter attack.

drop goal to decide it, 3 minutes after the clock has run out, and ireland just scrape home...  

So a general cardiac arrest game then?

We're used to them.... our blood has naturally thinned out over the years as a genetic response to close games.

you are due one going in your favour after NZ and then England.   

SecretFly wrote:I'll refer Gibbo and BlueMuff to Cyril's comment that is placed nicely between their two.

We lost to England.  

So our best balanced backrow ever is still not good enough, might be the conclusion

We'll need more experimenting before this debate is concluded because losing isn't winning.

I'd argue that the backrow performed well. Just the backs with their lack of pace let the team down and the bench wasn't utilised by Schmidt (i.e., Sexton should have been taken off).

RFU have this fancy new player evaluation (IBM) system which throws up lots of stats and points out the key influencers in the game. Mike Browne was the key performer for England and Peter O'Mahony was Ireland's best performer.

quinsforever wrote:

france's lineout will be 200% better than vs scotland (szarzewski + picamoles back)
 

France are not arsed with the lineout. They never compete (unlike Ireland).

Sin é wrote:

RFU have this fancy new player evaluation (IBM) system which throws up lots of stats and points out the key influencers in the game. Mike Browne was the key performer for England and Peter O'Mahony was Ireland's best performer.

Glad to hear it Sin.  I've been getting awful stick from the English boys who say he went missing in action.  I kept manfully defending with a Player of the Tournament jibe but they weren't buying it.  At least now I'll have stat evidence with me in any new battle I engage in down the line.

As for backrows.  Do not feelest slightedest - for I sayeth - it is about balance - not indivdual player worth.  Lord Schmidt will be tempted to try differing balancing acts when the injured sealions come back on duty.

All this talk about Ferris is pie in the sky - when was the last time he played competitively - does anyone know whats really left in his legs.

Secret Fly and Guns yee really do hate POM - the type of people that only wishing he plays badly.

Im sure yes yee will deny this but constant specific targeted posts at one player over months prove differently.

BlueMuff wrote:All this talk about Ferris is pie in the sky - when was the last time he played competitively - does anyone know whats really left in his legs.

Answer: No.

The projections above are I'm sure based on him being back close to his bludgeoning best. Obviously if he proves he's not getting back to his best, he's not going to be taken into the Irish team as a token or a tourist.

BlueMuff wrote:Secret Fly and Guns yee really do hate POM - the type of people that only wishing he plays badly.

Im sure yes yee will deny this but constant specific targeted posts at one player over months prove differently.

Not completely true. His singing is really good.

POM has played very well and done himself proud. I just dont think he is good a 6 as Ferris, as good a 7 as O'Brien or as good an 8 as Heaslip or SOB. Nothing to do with hate really.

BlueMuff wrote:Secret Fly and Guns yee really do hate POM - the type of people that only wishing he plays badly.

Im sure yes yee will deny this but constant specific targeted posts at one player over months prove differently.

Get them asswhole.  Get the posts where I genuinely talk down POM.  You're much too smarmy a hidden bitter ass for me to let this go with you, as I usually tend to do with you easily hurt guttersnipe kinda guys.  So get them...all of them.  All my references to POM and post all my references to POM here.  You're not going to use this public forum to denigrate me in a way that's widely inaccurate.

I have fun with the POM topic... (the English version of POM v the Irish one etc etc.).  I have fun with Sin and DOD, as they I'm sure have fun darting back with our very mild Provincial tet-a-tet games.  And I'll continue to have fun with it and all Provincial tet-a-tet shyte.  And I'll continue to use language in a way you obviously can't compute...lots of irony, sarcasm, satire, double-meaning, treble-meaning etc.  Not everything everyone says here is straight down the line First Class TOM and JANE stuff, you know?  Complex language is fun.  

But I'm one of the few who have been out there in threads talking up POM's presence and influence.  Find them too when you're at it, big guy.

Can't believe there isn't a 'handbags' smiley!

GunsGerms wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:Secret Fly and Guns yee really do hate POM - the type of people that only wishing he plays badly.

Im sure yes yee will deny this but constant specific targeted posts at one player over months prove differently.

Not completely true. His singing is really good.

POM has played very well and done himself proud. I just dont think he is good a 6 as Ferris, as good a 7 as O'Brien or as good an 8 as Heaslip or SOB. Nothing to do with hate really.

I'd say POM is getting to be undroppable now. Its just not how he plays the game, its his leadership & agression as well. Lets face it, Devin Toner wouldn't put the fear of god into anyone.

I doubt if anyone will be counting on Ferris being able to remain injury free for any length of time, given his record. SOB plays 7 now, a position that POM rarely plays in. Jordi Murphy looks to be being promoted as the new super sub to cover the backrow, which POM was doing.

 

....That one will more than suffice for this encounter.

I'll settle back and wait then!  

 I'll steal some of yours as I'm waiting for all the terrible things I said to appear.

BlueMuff wrote:All this talk about Ferris is pie in the sky - when was the last time he played competitively - does anyone know whats really left in his legs.

Well not much on the cartilage front anyways.


tic toc tic toc ..... gees I wish it was super Saturday already..... anyone know the kick off time is so I can adjust my sedative dose accordingly?   

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:Secret Fly and Guns yee really do hate POM - the type of people that only wishing he plays badly.

Im sure yes yee will deny this but constant specific targeted posts at one player over months prove differently.

Not completely true. His singing is really good.

POM has played very well and done himself proud. I just dont think he is good a 6 as Ferris, as good a 7 as O'Brien or as good an 8 as Heaslip or SOB. Nothing to do with hate really.

I'd say POM is getting to be undroppable now. Its just not how he plays the game, its his leadership & agression as well. Lets face it, Devin Toner wouldn't put the fear of god into anyone.

I doubt if anyone will be counting on Ferris being able to remain injury free for any length of time, given his record. SOB plays 7 now, a position that POM rarely plays in. Jordi Murphy looks to be being promoted as the new super sub to cover the backrow, which POM was doing.

Its not always about putting the fear of God into people. Real misconception in Ireland that if you show passion and aggression at every minute of the game you are playing at 100% and thats the right way to be. Actually this is incorrect becuase much of the time you are just wasting energy. Focus, loosen up and do what you are coached to do 100% of the time is more effective. You will also make better decisions this way.

The best players in every sport know when to turn it on an off at the right times. They channel their energy and aggession at key moments and harness it at others. Sometimes being composed and taking a step back is the more appropriate approach and the best players know how to do this.

POM plays like he is going to implode. This is possibly why he is so popular? This type of player/team tends to be galant losers a lot of the time. He is much more focused under Schmidt and as a result is a much better player so hats off on his progression. The brouhaha around him all the time is a little exhausting though.

Stephen Ferris is one of the most composed yet still incredibly physical forwards I have ever seen. I reckon POM could learn from him.

Actually Cian Healy knows what Im talking about too:

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/cian-healy-scrum-france-1361495-Mar2014/

kick off time is at 7.30, rodders. Just put the alarm on and snooze until then. I guarantee you there'll be not need for sedatives if you follow that advice.

SecretFly wrote: I'll steal some of yours as I'm waiting for all the terrible things I said to appear.

finally some controversy in this thread. I thought it was too well behaved for our forum standart.

Relax whocares,

Have some of No 7&1/2's   ...and tell us all about the secret French gameplan they have prepared for us.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:Secret Fly and Guns yee really do hate POM - the type of people that only wishing he plays badly.

Im sure yes yee will deny this but constant specific targeted posts at one player over months prove differently.

Not completely true. His singing is really good.

POM has played very well and done himself proud. I just dont think he is good a 6 as Ferris, as good a 7 as O'Brien or as good an 8 as Heaslip or SOB. Nothing to do with hate really.

I'd say POM is getting to be undroppable now. Its just not how he plays the game, its his leadership & agression as well. Lets face it, Devin Toner wouldn't put the fear of god into anyone.

I doubt if anyone will be counting on Ferris being able to remain injury free for any length of time, given his record. SOB plays 7 now, a position that POM rarely plays in. Jordi Murphy looks to be being promoted as the new super sub to cover the backrow, which POM was doing.

Its not always about putting the fear of God into people. Real misconception in Ireland that if you show passion and aggression at every minute of the game you are playing at 100% and thats the right way to be. Actually this is incorrect becuase much of the time you are just wasting energy. Focus and doing what you coached to do 100% of the time is more effective.

The best players in every sport know when to turn it on an off at the right times. They channel their energy and aggession at key moments and harness it at others. Sometimes being composed and taking a step back is the more appropriate approach and the best players know how to do this.

POM plays like he is going to implode. This is possibly why he is so popular? This type of player/team tends to be galant losers a lot of the time. He is much more focused under Schmidt and as a result is a much better player so hats off on his progression.

Stephen Ferris is one of the most composed yet still incredibly physical forwards I have ever seen. I reckon POM could learn from him.

Who said anything about showing it every minute of the game. If you can't see the difference between having an agreession to your game, you will be intimidated. Think of BOD on the SA Lions tour - he looked up for the fight.

POM may look like he is going to implode, but if you look at his record, he doesn't. Much better record than Sean O'Brien for instance. Even Heislip loses the plot quicker than POM.

POM looks to be a better player this year because SOB & himself don't really compliment each other. Its a bit like how Heislip has suffered a bit with SOB playing at 7. He used look much better with Wally there.

Interesting that you mention Ferris as being composed. I recall something that Ferris said after a game that POM had come on in and Ferris was wrongly penalised which meant Ireland lost the game. Ferris said something that POM had consoled him. I was struck at how a seasoned campaigner was so reassured by a youngster in his first or 2nd cap that he actually quoted him as doing so in the press.

POM has great discipline for Munster, so I don't know why you are crediting Schmidt for it. Schmidt would be better advised to sorting out Sean O'Brien's discipline if anyone's need to be fixed.

Difference with BOD is he can intimidate opponents without getting rattled himself. Its controlled aggression. POM last year would run around like he was going to blow a valve. Big difference.

Are you referring to Ferris' only yellow v Wales a few years ago? It was a pretty ridiculous decision by Barnes that cost Ireland the game. Still dont think it should have been a penalty.

I think that some of the best leaders actually are quite passive. Smit, Robshaw, Warburton, BOD etc are all quite passive and composed. If you are overly aggressive all the time this will filter throughout the team and structure, focus and organisation breaks down.

Back to Bizarro World as per usual.

No-one is saying that POM is a bad player or will get dropped. We're saying IF the world class blindside we've had missing for a while gets back to full fitness- which is a very big if- then he'll come under pressure for his place in the team and there'll be excellent competition for places. Are you really going to rule out changing POM? We shouldn't be in the business of ruling out changing anybody unless there are no viable options.

Sometimes it feels like with the very provincially minded types that they'd rather we had no strength in depth so their favourite players were guaranteed a spot in the 23. We're hopefully working towards a situation where absolutely no-one is guaranteed a start except maybe the Captain, or even if they are there isn't much drop off between them and the guy behind them. We're getting their in the tight five, we're getting there in the back three and if a player of the calibre of Ferris is available for Ireland for the summer tour we'll be getting there in the back row.