Ireland v France - The 6N decider

First topic message reminder :

With such a strong points advantage if Ireland can just win in Paris then the Championship is there's. Now it's never been a happy hunting ground for Ireland - can they do it?

I think it's there year and I'm going to say yes.

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:You see there are droppables droppables, droppable undroppables and undroppable undroppables....

Weazel war-mongering non-commital words there, rodders.  Don't worry, you're not going to be attacked as a hater.... just tell us straight.  Which is POM?

Fly, you might enjoy this: Jerry Flannery hacked Ross O'Carroll-Kelly's twitter account last night. Absolute Carnage - very funny.

Sin é wrote:

Ah he has Fly. He rotated, Boss, Zebo, Jackson, TOD, Jones & Ryan out of contention to play in this competition, and he rotated Ruddock, Madigan & Murphy in.

In fairness to him though, he is bring Robbie Henshaw to France for the spin.

He rotated the droppables. Perfectly logical. 

Dont you think it was in France's favour to play England in the first game. That was when both teams were at their least organised whereas England have got better with every game, france are still all over the place.

There seems to be this thing going around about France being all over the place...I suppose looking at the Scottish and Welsh games you could take that but there is a lot of bullcrap as well. For the English game they were well in control in the first half and made a system mistake (seems to be the new phrase) for Cares try. If that hadnt been scored I think they would have won the game comfortably enough. For Italy they never got out of second gear. For Wales they had a complete breakdown and in Scotland they clearly were working on their discipline (only five penalties) and still managed a win (they were comfortable enough in the end on the back of an atrocious performance plus two dodgy tries from Scotland).

If we win there it will be very good..

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:You see there are droppables droppables, droppable undroppables and undroppable undroppables....

Weazel war-mongering non-commital words there, rodders.  Don't worry, you're not going to be attacked as a hater.... just tell us straight.  Which is POM?

Fly, you might enjoy this: Jerry Flannery hacked Ross O'Carroll-Kelly's twitter account last night. Absolute Carnage - very funny.

That was a long visit to the toilet by Ross!   Did Flannery drop some urgency into his drink? Yeah, funny stuff. But pretty lame return by the genuine guy... there was a lot more he could have done with it. So many creative possibilities.

ME-109 wrote:There seems to be this thing going around about France being all over the place...I suppose looking at the Scottish and Welsh games you could take that but there is a lot of bullcrap as well. For the English game they were well in control in the first half and made a system mistake (seems to be the new phrase) for Cares try. If that hadnt been scored I think they would have won the game comfortably enough. For Italy they never got out of second gear. For Wales they had a complete breakdown and in Scotland they clearly were working on their discipline (only five penalties) and still managed a win (they were comfortable enough in the end on the back of an atrocious performance plus two dodgy tries from Scotland).

If we win there it will be very good..

and if we lose it will be because Zebo wasnt picked?

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:There seems to be this thing going around about France being all over the place...I suppose looking at the Scottish and Welsh games you could take that but there is a lot of bullcrap as well. For the English game they were well in control in the first half and made a system mistake (seems to be the new phrase) for Cares try. If that hadnt been scored I think they would have won the game comfortably enough. For Italy they never got out of second gear. For Wales they had a complete breakdown and in Scotland they clearly were working on their discipline (only five penalties) and still managed a win (they were comfortable enough in the end on the back of an atrocious performance plus two dodgy tries from Scotland).

If we win there it will be very good..

and if we lose it will be because Zebo wasnt picked?

Its usually because the opposition scores more than you.

Can I quote you on that if we lose?

Muff reckons that Schmidt leaving Zebo out has cost us a slam?

GunsGerms wrote:Muff reckons that Schmidt leaving Zebo out has cost us a slam?

There is merit in that argument but its not just the Zebo thing...

Even Denis Leamy has weighed in on the debate:

Denis is upset that there are too many Leinster players in the squad.

http://www.espn.co.uk/six-nations-2014/rugby/story/218385.html

"I think what rankles with Munster people - and I suspect some folk in Ulster- is that guys who aren't first choice in Leinster are still good enough for the national squad.

"I would have to disagree with some of the calls. Tommy O'Donnell lost his place on the bench, I think he is a better player than Jordi Murphy.

"I would argue that Donnacha Ryan brings more to the table than Rhys Ruddock and you just have to wonder what Simon Zebo - a Lion last summer - has to do to get back into the squad. Paddy Jackson has a more rounded game at the moment than Ian Madigan.

"The World Cup is just a year and a half away. The circle will need to be widened and not having done that in the Six Nations narrows the opportunities."


Interesting comments from Leamy. The fact that we are in our best position in 5 years going into the last game of the six nations isnt enough for some people?

ME-109 wrote:There seems to be this thing going around about France being all over the place...I suppose looking at the Scottish and Welsh games you could take that but there is a lot of bullcrap as well. For the English game they were well in control in the first half and made a system mistake (seems to be the new phrase) for Cares try. If that hadnt been scored I think they would have won the game comfortably enough. For Italy they never got out of second gear. For Wales they had a complete breakdown and in Scotland they clearly were working on their discipline (only five penalties) and still managed a win (they were comfortable enough in the end on the back of an atrocious performance plus two dodgy tries from Scotland).

If we win there it will be very good..

I'd agree with you about Italy.  I felt the Italy game was the one where they showed they had serious 'system' presence and only used it for as long as they needed it to blow away the distraction in front of them called Italy.
But I don't really think they've shown much in a the way of a cool, calculating underbelly.  England were more guilty than France for not having the 'systemised' penetration to make their dominance count but there is no way I'd say France were having a comfortable game against them on their home turf.
Scotland - I'm not so certain either side deserved victory in that one but France couldn't have known Scotland would throw the throw that would be intercepted by the man who intercepts.  Or that Scotland would miss two straight forward enough penalties. France didn't plan their win, they kind of manufactured it from bits and pieces of Scottish foolhardiness around the field throughout the game.

Does that mean the French are dumb?  Or are they lurking and waiting for the one (Ireland) they usually keep most of their ammo for?  We don't know.  
But in order to believe the latter you'd need to believe that they purposefully played crap for most of their games, purposefully only just won in two of them, purposefully set out to lose massively in Wales (against a side blown away by England and Ireland) and are now ready with their ultimate gameplan, ready to beat us by a landslide to take the title they always planned for themselves.

If they are that good, then they really are unbeatable and we shouldn't turn up for the humiliation.

GunsGerms wrote:Can I quote you on that if we lose?

That is generally the answer to "Why we lost?", it might be a different answer to "How we lost?"

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Can I quote you on that if we lose?

That is generally the answer to "Why we lost?", it might be a different answer to "How we lost?"

Stop beating about the bush Dod. If we lose will it be because Zeebs wasnt picked?

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:There seems to be this thing going around about France being all over the place...I suppose looking at the Scottish and Welsh games you could take that but there is a lot of bullcrap as well. For the English game they were well in control in the first half and made a system mistake (seems to be the new phrase) for Cares try. If that hadnt been scored I think they would have won the game comfortably enough. For Italy they never got out of second gear. For Wales they had a complete breakdown and in Scotland they clearly were working on their discipline (only five penalties) and still managed a win (they were comfortable enough in the end on the back of an atrocious performance plus two dodgy tries from Scotland).

If we win there it will be very good..

I'd agree with you about Italy.  I felt the Italy game was the one where they showed they had serious 'system' presence and only used it for as long as they needed it to blow away the distraction in front of them called Italy.
But I don't really think they've shown much in a the way of a cool, calculating underbelly.  England were more guilty than France for not having the 'systemised' penetration to make their dominance count but there is no way I'd say France were having a comfortable game against them on their home turf.
Scotland - I'm not so certain either side deserved victory in that one but France couldn't have known Scotland would throw the throw that would be intercepted by the man who intercepts.  Or that Scotland would miss two straight forward enough penalties. France didn't plan their win, they kind of manufactured it from bits and pieces of Scottish foolhardiness around the field throughout the game.

Does that mean the French are dumb?  Or are they lurking and waiting for the one (Ireland) they usually keep most of their ammo for?  We don't know.  
But in order to believe the latter you'd need to believe that they purposefully played crap for most of their games, purposefully only just won in two of them, purposefully set out to lose massively in Wales (against a side blown away by England and Ireland) and are now ready with their ultimate gameplan, ready to beat us by a landslide to take the title they always planned for themselves.

If they are that good, then they really are unbeatable and we shouldn't turn up for the humiliation.

I dont think they are "that" good but I dont think they are bad as everyone is saying. Out of interest I looked at their stats for the four games and if you take them as is (ignoring what you saw with your own eyes) they have only two areas to work on - lineout and scrum. I think that with the exception of Parra and an injured Fofana they have an excellent looking backline and I think Tales is steadier. I expect given how Mas reacted this week to have a very different scrum from the previous games and if they get >50% of their own lineout they will be a threat. Did I mention their back three -

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Can I quote you on that if we lose?

That is generally the answer to "Why we lost?", it might be a different answer to "How we lost?"

Stop beating about the bush Dod. If we lose will it be because Zeebs wasnt picked?

I answered that question earlier.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Can I quote you on that if we lose?

That is generally the answer to "Why we lost?", it might be a different answer to "How we lost?"

Stop beating about the bush Dod. If we lose will it be because Zeebs wasnt picked?

WE WON'T LOSE!!!.

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Can I quote you on that if we lose?

That is generally the answer to "Why we lost?", it might be a different answer to "How we lost?"

Stop beating about the bush Dod. If we lose will it be because Zeebs wasnt picked?

WE WON'T LOSE!!!.

Good man rodders...your confidence is a credit to you...

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Can I quote you on that if we lose?

That is generally the answer to "Why we lost?", it might be a different answer to "How we lost?"

Stop beating about the bush Dod. If we lose will it be because Zeebs wasnt picked?

I answered that question earlier.

No you didnt, you skated around it.

The stats are all there to see. Ireland have scored almost double the amount of tries that their closest rival has and one less that Scotland, Italy and Wales put together.

We have still only conceded two tries. England have conceded double that.

Whatever happens on Saturday we have done unbelievably well to put ourselves in this position without even, as many claim our best team!!! Remarkable stuff. Tactical masterclass.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Can I quote you on that if we lose?

That is generally the answer to "Why we lost?", it might be a different answer to "How we lost?"

Stop beating about the bush Dod. If we lose will it be because Zeebs wasnt picked?

I answered that question earlier.

No you didnt, you skated around it.

The stats are all there to see. Ireland have scored almost double the amount of tries that their closest rival has and one less that Scotland, Italy and Wales put together.

We have still only conceded two tries. England have conceded double that.

Whatever happens on Saturday we have done unbelievably well to put ourselves in this position without even, as many claim our best team!!!  Remarkable stuff. Tactical masterclass.

I know its Friday but isnt it a bit too early for the     

ME-109 wrote:

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Can I quote you on that if we lose?

That is generally the answer to "Why we lost?", it might be a different answer to "How we lost?"

Stop beating about the bush Dod. If we lose will it be because Zeebs wasnt picked?

WE WON'T LOSE!!!.

Good man rodders...your confidence is a credit to you...

This time last year you were the master of doom Rodders. Think you even said a few times our players just arent good enough, would that be right? Anyway good to see the positivity.

I cant believe that certain people are saying that Irelands player of the series will be automatically dropped when/if Ferris returns. I rate Ferris highly but he has a lot of work to do to be even in contention. Right now Ireland have a very balanced backrow and one that has done well.

POM in my opinion is built from the same stone as POC, natural leader and will be Irelands captain soon I feel. He has aggression but it is also controlled and he is playing extremely well.

If Ireland lose, it wont be because of Zebo's omission as in my opinion (as much as I want him in the team) the other wings have done quite well and deserved of their start.

My only real issue I have had this 6N was with Schmidt's lack of trust in the replacements against England.

Nachos Jones wrote:I cant believe that certain people are saying that Irelands player of the series will be automatically dropped when/if Ferris returns. I rate Ferris highly but he has a lot of work to do to be even in contention. Right now Ireland have a very balanced backrow and one that has done well.

POM in my opinion is built from the same stone as POC, natural leader and will be Irelands captain soon I feel. He has aggression but it is also controlled and he is playing extremely well.

If Ireland lose, it wont be because of Zebo's omission as in my opinion (as much as I want him in the team) the other wings have done quite well and deserved of their start.

My only real issue I have had this 6N was with Schmidt's lack of trust in the replacements against England.

Lacking a bench of any real quality more like. As for the wingers or just Average Dave...for an international winger I expect he has been resourcing his rucks as expected.

I actually think that Dave Kearney has played quite well ME-109, got chased down once by playing the % move instead of trusting himself and going for it (ala Zebo) but for the rest I think that he has done very well.

Nachos Jones wrote:I actually think that Dave Kearney has played quite well ME-109, got chased down once by playing the % move instead of trusting himself and going for it (ala Zebo) but for the rest I think that he has done very well.

Scored some great tries alright.......

GunsGerms wrote:
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Interesting comments from Leamy. The fact that we are in our best position in 5 years going into the last game of the six nations isnt enough for some people?

I think your missing the point.

Some people believe, including myself, that we would be in a similar position of strength or indeed an even stronger one if Schmidt done a bit more rotating.

I really don't think giving Zebo, Henshaw, or Marmion some game time, and possibly using Jackson and Marshall a bit more, would have made us weaker in any way.

Gatland won the Lions tour, but could he have picked better players? Most certainly yes.

Also, I think you maybe missing the point of a rugby forum. It would be boring to just praise and praise, rather then voice our opinions on certain failures. I have no doubt that on a New Zealand team forum there are many voicing criticisms of their coach and their team.

I would certainly have Zebo over Dave Kearney ME-109 but I think its unfair to label Kearney Average Dave as he has put in some good performances.

I couldnt care less about rotation if we win the championship. We have a tour to Argentina in the summer. What is that for?

The fact that as some say we are playing a whole championship without our best team surely means what Schmidt has done is good as rotation if we have better players to come back and slot in.

The main thing is we don't turnover the ball and keep building the continuity. The two wingers we have have been brilliant in the respect.

Wouldn't miss Kearney if he was dropped necessarily, I don't think he's that special, but it needs to be for someone who has the same work rate and then all the extras on top as well and not just the flair and pace. Need someone who will not turnover the ball or get isolated, or let another player get isolated.

Having said all that, our next game after this is away to Argentina so I don't see any reason why we can't start Zebo in that game and let him grow into the role, hopefully he's been working hard on his ruck cleaning and ball presentation etc. and then all his extras will come to the fore.

I myself thought we needed Zebo for the Italy game to stretch the scoreline but I was proven completely wrong- it was a total team effort and we got the scores we needed through teamwork not through any brilliant individualism- a few offloads from the master aside...

Nachos Jones wrote:I would certainly have Zebo over Dave Kearney ME-109 but I think its unfair to label Kearney Average Dave as he has put in some good performances.

he has been fine, no spark, no real ability to make a break or go outside his man, plays well enough, probably hits all the required stats...   

ME-109 wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:I would certainly have Zebo over Dave Kearney ME-109 but I think its unfair to label Kearney Average Dave as he has put in some good performances.

he has been fine, no spark, no real ability to make a break or go outside his man, plays well enough, probably hits all the required stats...   

Maybe he should wear his socks round his ankles and make D shapes when he scores for Leinster.

A dj gig on the side might help raise his profile too? What do you reckon fellas?

Not one try has been conceded down DKs wing. He has done everything asked of him very well. A couple of tries would have been a nice bonus but it doesnt really matter who scores.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:I would certainly have Zebo over Dave Kearney ME-109 but I think its unfair to label Kearney Average Dave as he has put in some good performances.

he has been fine, no spark, no real ability to make a break or go outside his man, plays well enough, probably hits all the required stats...   

Maybe he should wear his socks round his ankles and make D shapes when he scores for Leinster.

A dj gig on the side might help raise his profile too? What do you reckon fellas?

Yeah cos that happens a lot....(maybe when he hits the rucks he could do it?)

 

Keep it going guys. This is good stuff.

GunsGerms wrote:I couldnt care less about rotation if we win the championship. We have a tour to Argentina in the summer. What is that for?

The fact that as some say we are playing a whole championship without our best team surely means what Schmidt has done is good as rotation if we have better players to come back and slot in.

yeah ths is Ireland 14-2-3:23. A completely dfferent model to WC Model 15-9-10:30.

That team will have all the undroppables back so I don't know what everyone is fretting about. This is Joe winning (hopefully!) with an Emerging Ireland outfit and a few Infinitely Droppable Potentiators covering the Bench positions.

All you have to do is drop the POM bomb and you have 10 pages of banter.

if we win tomorrow can we call the championship the POM slam?

I dare you Guns.

If we're that happy to have that up, then we'll be hapy enough to have a good old week long fight about POM again, just to finish off a nice 6N sweetly

GunsGerms wrote:All you have to do is drop the POM bomb and you have 10 pages of banter.

if we win tomorrow can we call the championship the POM slam?

What do we call it if we lose?

SecretFly wrote:I dare you Guns.

If we're that happy to have that up, then we'll be hapy enough to have a good old week long fight about POM again, just to finish off a nice 6N sweetly

Or better still maybe the Zebo slam cause it would have been a slam if Zebo was in the squad.

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:All you have to do is drop the POM bomb and you have 10 pages of banter.

if we win tomorrow can we call the championship the POM slam?

What do we call it we we lose?

Jamie's knickers?

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I dare you Guns.

If we're that happy to have that up, then we'll be hapy enough to have a good old week long fight about POM again, just to finish off a nice 6N sweetly

Or better still maybe the Zebo slam cause it would have been a slam if Zebo was in the squad.

Ah now guns you are showing your lack of aspirations for the team if you dont think a gs was available for us....just happy with second best I guess.

How is winning the championship second best? I think we would should have beaten england but dont think Zebo would have made much difference.

Anyone worried about Walsh? will he try and steal the limelight? Will he:

try and dump tackle BOD?
abuse Horgan on the side line?
claim to be an Aussie?

or be a good ref?

The POM stuff reminds me of the good old days a few years back when McFadden was acknowledged officially by the IRB to have the Lowest Centre of Gravity in the World.

Who ever did take that title from him btw?

Anyway, if he gets on as a once record holder in the second half, and Minx Madigan gets licence to Ferret, and POM is still on and full of Gama Rays................. we ain't gonna lose.  It's mathematically impossible to lose with a Ferret, a one time Centre of Gravity World record holder and the Hulk on one team.  It's just a balanced combo and Joe knows how to do these things right.

On Walsh.  I'm hoping here but I also think he's now the kind of coach that will give Ireland their wings if they play an attacking game.  Walsh could be good for us.

GunsGerms wrote:How is winning the championship second best? I think we would should have beaten england but dont think Zebo would have made much difference.

He might not have been chased down by a second row though..

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:How is winning the championship second best? I think we would should have beaten england but dont think Zebo would have made much difference.

He might not have been chased down by a second row though..

North got tackled by Launchbury last Sunday too I noticed. Given that he is probably about 5 times better that Zebo I dont think there is much harm in that.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:How is winning the championship second best? I think we would should have beaten england but dont think Zebo would have made much difference.

He might not have been chased down by a second row though..

North got tackled by Launchbury last Sunday too I noticed. Given that he is probably about 5 times better that Zebo I dont think there is much harm in that.

Didn't Wales lose as well?

Rugby was the real winner.

Enjoy the match tomorrow fellows. Lets hope we win well and bring home the prize.

Come on Ireland!!

Go easy

It's mouthwatering really….Ireland can raise their blood pressure like no other side and with the BOD storyline they may well explode around the park…France may turn up, after a season of shoiteness they may look at each other and go "Uh, pourquoi non?" and put in a staggering performance that we all know is in them.


COME ON IRELAND!!!!!!

The real question, is where the F is Marmion. I'm boycotting this BS anti-Connacht conspiracy tomorrow and will be hoping the gallic lovelies in Blue put these Leinster/Munster/Ulster men to the sword.