England vs Wales Match day thread

[maestegmafia]

First topic message reminder :

SIX NATIONS: ENGLAND V WALES
Venue: Twickenham Date: Sunday, 9 March Kick-off: 15:00 GMT
Coverage: Watch live on BBC One, BBC One HD, listen on BBC Radio 5 Live

England

15-Mike Brown, 14-Jack Nowell, 13-Luther Burrell, 12-Billy Twelvetrees, 11-Jonny May, 10-Owen Farrell, 9-Danny Care

1-Joe Marler, 2-Dylan Hartley, 3-David Wilson, 4-Joe Launchbury, 5-Courtney Lawes, 6-Tom Wood, 7-Chris Robshaw (captain), 8-Ben Morgan

Replacements: 16-Tom Youngs, 17-Mako Vunipola, 18-Henry Thomas, 19-Dave Attwood, 20-Tom Johnson, 21-Lee Dickson, 22-George Ford, 23-Alex Goode


Wales

15-Leigh Halfpenny, 14-Alex Cuthbert, 13-Jonathan Davies, 12-Jamie Roberts, 11-George North, 10-Rhys Priestland, 9-Rhys Webb

1-Gethin Jenkins, 2-Richard Hibbard, 3-Adam Jones, 4-Jake Ball, 5-Alun Wyn Jones, 6-Dan Lydiate, 7-Sam Warburton (capt), 8-Taulupe Faletau

Replacements: Ken Owens, Paul James, Rhodri Jones, Andrew Coombs, Justin Tipuric, Mike Phillips, Dan Biggar, Liam Williams
MATCH OFFICIALS

Referee : Romain Poite (Fra)

Touch judges : Steve Walsh (Aus) & Lourens van der Merwe (RSA)
TV Official : Simon McDowell (Ire)


Next up for Wales is a trip to London and after all the banter coming out of the England camp it is time to finish the hype this match has been building and play some rugby. Have England improved on last year? Will home advantage be enough? Has Wales over come a trough and reached another high?

With plenty of injuries to key players, in fact some of England's very best players are out of this game, a convincing win for England over Wales will give the nation huge confidence going forward, maybe even a shot at the championship next weekend.

The build up seems to have been all about England, Wales are a known entity, twice champions in recent years with pretty much the same team they field tomorrow, little change to their game plan or style gives very little to discuss.

On the many various threads the situation is similar, all about England, with very little admiration of this perceivably over-rated Welsh team that have failed to beat a Southern Hemisphere top three team since 2008, the mark of all great sides.

In all honesty a tough and challenging end to the Six Nations will do this Welsh set up some good, possibly more good than the confidence a third consecutive championship would give them. Wales have little to lose and less to prove, a defeat in the manner of last years game would be vastly more detrimental to their hosts.

I hope all the fans enjoy the game, I am sure it will be the usual roller coaster of emotion for both Nations.

[Scrumpy]

I think wales just switched off, arrogance maybe?

[Guest]

Dan bigger has to be the welsh 10, when he came on I was generally worried for the 1st time all game, but let's face it without 1/2p wales/B&I Lions offered very little

I've been a Wales supporter for 60 years and agree about Biggar. He should play against Scotland.

But Biggar's not the long-term answer at fly-half because his game is based around excellent line-kicking. This might be fine if Wales had a very good lineout capable of competing for opposition ball but they don't in comparison to England and Ireland, let alone New Zealand or South Africa. Priestland was poor today and hasn't found anything near his form at the last RWC, now 3 years ago, and I think his confidence is shot at international level. Although Hook is creative he hasn't been picked often enough for Wales to develop as an international fly-half. It's a shame because he was once viewed as the successor to Stephen Jones, but he's become inconsistent in a substitute role.

Wales need to consider up and coming fly-halves like Patchell and Tovey, because they must look to the future. In that context next year's RWC will come too soon, and I don't hold out much hope for Welsh prospects at it.

Also, it's a big blow to lose Halfpenny with a dislocated shoulder, sustained when he stopped Burrell scoring again in the final minutes today - shades of 2 years ago when he was concussed stopping Strettle in the final minute!

[Seagultaf]

What evidence have you got for thinking the ref had said he wanted to talk to one of the Welsh players?

The ref, the commentators, and everyone apart from the English.

To me it was clear that the ref had indicated to the Welsh players that he wanted to talk to one of the Welsh players, so the quick tap should not have been allowed.

Very poor refing at this level!

[Heaf]

How had he indicated that - I didn't hear him call time off or anything ?

[Scrumpy]

[TJ]

Did the ref call "time off" - no. So the game is still being played. When the ref wants to talk to a player he will signal "time off" and call the captain over. did he do this? No.

[ChequeredJersey]

Some of the comments earlier in this thread are quite funny.

[Seagultaf]

Dan bigger has to be the welsh 10, when he came on I was generally worried for the 1st time all game, but let's face it without 1/2p wales/B&I Lions offered very little

I've been a Wales supporter for 60 years and agree about Biggar. He should play against Scotland.

But Biggar's not the long-term answer at fly-half because his game is based around excellent line-kicking. This might be fine if Wales had a very good lineout capable of competing for opposition ball but they don't in comparison to England and Ireland, let alone New Zealand or South Africa. Priestland was poor today and hasn't found anything near his form at the last RWC, now 3 years ago, and I think his confidence is shot at international level. Although Hook is creative he hasn't been picked often enough for Wales to develop as an international fly-half.  It's a shame because he was once viewed as the successor to Stephen Jones, but he's become inconsistent in a substitute role.

Wales need to consider up and coming fly-halves like Patchell and Tovey, because they must look to the future. In that context next year's RWC will come too soon, and I don't hold out much hope for Welsh prospects at it.

Also, it's a big blow to lose Halfpenny with a dislocated shoulder, sustained when he stopped Burrell scoring again in the final minutes today - shades of 2 years ago when he was concussed stopping Strettle in the final minute!

I thought the opposite, despite the Welsh forwards providing better ball in the last 15 mins Biggar's distribution was very poor. Patchell may be the long term answer but to date he has done very little in a very poor Blues side, Tovey is OK at Club level but a long way off test standard.

The big issue for Wales is for the forwards to generate front foot ball, if Wales had had Dan Carter at 10 today he would have struggled!

[Heaf]

What evidence have you got for thinking the ref had said he wanted to talk to one of the Welsh players?

The ref, the commentators, and everyone apart from the English.

To me it was clear that the ref had indicated to the Welsh players that he wanted to talk to one of the Welsh players, so the quick tap should not have been allowed.

Very poor refing at this level!

Just watched the replay and you're talking complete nonsense ...

[TrailApe]

To me it was clear that the ref had indicated to the Welsh players that he wanted to talk to one of the Welsh players, so the quick tap should not have been allowed.

Ok - so on your planet Wales won today.

good for you!

[ChequeredJersey]

And I thought it was wrong to blame the referee after a defeat? That's what we have been told for 12 months...

[Scrumpy]

But he looked like he was going to do it!

  

I was taught at school never to turn your back on the opposition!

Basics!

[king_carlos]

in fairness, whatever peoples views of halfpenny regarding his attacking threat, in defence he always puts his rather small body on the line

Agreed there! Getting your head on the wrong side of the tackle unfortunately asks for an injury no doubt, although many players still do it. Thing is that Halfpenny will have known that risk when flying in for the hit and did it anyway to give himself the best chance of preventing a try for his team!

A fantastic tackle and really reminded me of the sort of hits Twickenham has enjoyed from the likes of Lewsey and Wilkinson down the years.

[welshy824 (new)]

I think wales just switched off, arrogance maybe?

scrumpy, every other England supporter here is being very gracious in victory, and likewise the welsh fans on here posts seem to be equally gracious (probably as the wums have nothing to wum about) so why try and causes welsh fans to argue with you?
you won, and deserved to win that is the end of it.

but to answer your post, arrogant no, naïve in terms of the gameplan yes as they still kicked to mike brown who along with POM has been the player of the tournament so far, and likewise for the first try not expecting care to snipe was naïve (although, I thought the penalty was harsh as the ball was out, though that was probably due to a fair few beers plus welsh bias!!!)

[TJ]

Until the ref calls "time off" the game is still being played. I think the welsh just switched off expecting the easy 3 pts on offer would be taken

[Heaf]

He blew for the penalty, went to the spot and signalled that it was for No. 2 being offside - that is all … nothing to suggest he was going to talk to a Welsh player at all … talk about clutching at straws

[ChequeredJersey]

Sad to hear about Halfpenny's injury, that man is one of the bravest rugby players I've ever seen

[Seagultaf]

I watched the game on TV, I was sure that the ref had indicated he wanted to speak to a Welsh player, so did the BBC commentator's. In the noise in the stadium I doubt whether anyone can hear the refs calls so as I said poor reffing!

[Scrumpy]

Sad to hear about Halfpenny's injury, that man is one of the bravest rugby players I've ever seen

It was a great tackle, very classy player is mr 1/2p but I would like to see him attack more like he used to.

[Scratch]

I think wales just switched off, arrogance maybe?

scrumpy, every other England supporter here is being very gracious in victory, and likewise the welsh fans on here posts seem to be equally gracious (probably as the wums have nothing to wum about) so why try and causes welsh fans to argue with you?
you won, and deserved to win that is the end of it.

but to answer your post, arrogant no, naïve in terms of the gameplan yes as they still kicked to mike brown who along with POM has been the player of the tournament so far, and likewise for the first try not expecting care to snipe was naïve (although, I thought the penalty was harsh as the ball was out, though that was probably due to a fair few beers plus welsh bias!!!)

classless post, classless poster.

England were a class outfit today, but you can be sure some 'fans' will let them down, enter Scrumpy….we even have a Warrenball WUM thread.

[Heaf]

I watched the game on TV, I was sure that the ref had indicated he wanted to speak to a Welsh player, so did the BBC commentator's. In the noise in the stadium I doubt whether anyone can hear the refs calls so as I said poor reffing!

Watch it again - it never happened how you thought it did ...

[TrailApe]

(although, I thought the penalty was harsh as the ball was out, though that was probably due to a fair few beers plus welsh bias!!!)

Well said sir! I was in the same position but on a different side of the fence.

Beer Goggles vs Refs

Only one winner.

edited for spelling.

[Scrumpy]

Don't be like that scratchy.

A Pro rugby player 5m out from their own try line should never turn their back, maybe they thought england wouldn't take the tap and go and take the easy 3 points seeing as it was a big game, maybe it was arrogance?

[gramps]

from a sad welshman england was the better team.they deserved it..

[nathan]

No surprise on this board that when Wales lose the 10 gets blamed, he had a poor game, yes but so did Webb, Jenkins, Warburton and Hibbard. Unfortunately when Biggar came on Wales looked even worse, he cannot play at all behind a beaten pack.

For me England were the better side and deserved to win, the bid decision was to allow the first try,. I think all of Wales thought the Ref had indicated that he wanted to speak to a Welsh player so the quick take should not have been allowed.

The other big decision was not to sub Gethin Jenkins at half time, the ref had no idea what was going on in the scrums but has clearly decided to blame Gethin, Gats should have subbed him and saved Wales from playing 10 mins with 14 men.

Well done England, but Wales will come back.

i think the ref and the rest of the world knew what was going on as could be seen from the overhead shot.

What was his indication for the whole welsh team to start walking back to the the try line? if they thought the ref wanted to speak to them surely they would of walked to the ref instead of retreat to the try line.

Are you suggesting that when the ref looks to be going for a yellow card the player would rush up to see who is going off!!!!!!!

I think actually the players were waiting to see who the ref wanted to talk too. Poor refing but probably did not affect the result.

eh? No, i was refering to your suggestion that "I think all of Wales thought the Ref had indicated that he wanted to speak to a Welsh player so the quick take should not have been allowed" . What im saying is that if the players thought that, why did they start to retreat to the line?

Really think your clutching at straws here mate.

[GloriousEmpire]

If the referee consistently allows quick taps that's ok - but if later in the game he stops a quick tap by the opposition and then has to apologise - it just creates an unfair disparity.

[nathan]

Sad to hear about Halfpenny's injury, that man is one of the bravest rugby players I've ever seen

It was a great tackle, very classy player is mr 1/2p but I would like to see him attack more like he used to.

I was a great tackle in that he put his body on the line to stop a score, but it wasn't a technically great tackle.

Feel really sorry for the bloke, he's a class act.

[nathan]

If the referee consistently allows quick taps that's ok - but if later in the game he stops a quick tap by the opposition and then has to apologise - it just creates an unfair disparity.

Phillips was about 5 meters from the mark, so he had to bring it back.

[HammerofThunor]

Supposedly you're not allowed to go for the quick tap when you've asked for it (as in not played advantage) which is what happened later. Also Phillips seems to be ahead of the mark, while Care was behind it.

[TJ]

If the referee consistently allows quick taps that's ok - but if later in the game he stops a quick tap by the opposition and then has to apologise - it just creates an unfair disparity.

Because the attempt was not from the right place. More stupid trolling from GE - I don't know why you do it and why you are not banned for it.

[Poorfour]

Sad to hear about Halfpenny's injury, that man is one of the bravest rugby players I've ever seen

It was a great tackle, very classy player is mr 1/2p but I would like to see him attack more like he used to.

It stopped the try, but I've been worried about Halfpenny's technique for some time. He makes far too many tackles where he puts himself at risk of serious injury. I hope he recovers fully, I have dislocated a shoulder myself and it's no fun. But his career is likely to end prematurely if he doesn't find a different approach.

[ChequeredJersey]

Well, it depends if the quick tap is taken from the right place, which I don't think Phillips did?

[Scrumpy]

from a sad welshman england was the better team.they deserved it..

   

Thank you Sir.


It was nice to see some of the welsh guys watch the sevens game afterwards. It's a game at the end of the day, you win some you lose some

[Seagultaf]

No surprise on this board that when Wales lose the 10 gets blamed, he had a poor game, yes but so did Webb, Jenkins, Warburton and Hibbard. Unfortunately when Biggar came on Wales looked even worse, he cannot play at all behind a beaten pack.

For me England were the better side and deserved to win, the bid decision was to allow the first try,. I think all of Wales thought the Ref had indicated that he wanted to speak to a Welsh player so the quick take should not have been allowed.

The other big decision was not to sub Gethin Jenkins at half time, the ref had no idea what was going on in the scrums but has clearly decided to blame Gethin, Gats should have subbed him and saved Wales from playing 10 mins with 14 men.

Well done England, but Wales will come back.

i think the ref and the rest of the world knew what was going on as could be seen from the overhead shot.

What was his indication for the whole welsh team to start walking back to the the try line? if they thought the ref wanted to speak to them surely they would of walked to the ref instead of retreat to the try line.

Are you suggesting that when the ref looks to be going for a yellow card the player would rush up to see who is going off!!!!!!!

I think actually the players were waiting to see who the ref wanted to talk too. Poor refing but probably did not affect the result.

eh? No, i was refering to your suggestion that "I think all of Wales thought the Ref had indicated that he wanted to speak to a Welsh player so the quick take should not have been allowed" . What im saying is that if the players thought that, why did they start to retreat to the line?

Really think your clutching at straws here mate.

All the Wales players and the commentators thought the ref wanted to speak to a Welsh player and therefor would not allow the quick tap. At best the ref was not clear in what he intended to do. As I said poor reffing.

[Seagultaf]

If the referee consistently allows quick taps that's ok - but if later in the game he stops a quick tap by the opposition and then has to apologise - it just creates an unfair disparity.

Because the attempt was not from the right place.  More stupid trolling from GE - I don't know why you do it and why you are not banned for it.  

Its not "stupid trolling" just because someone has a different opinion to you!

[HammerofThunor]

The ref doesn't have to be clear. If he wants to talk to players he has to be clear. If he doesn't...well everyone carries on as normal. Until the ref says "time off" or the team indicate a kick at goal the game is still live. EVERYONE knows that and it was naive and foolish at best for the Welsh team.

We're still waiting for you to pass on how the ref had indicated he wanted a word with the Welsh player.

[nathan]

No surprise on this board that when Wales lose the 10 gets blamed, he had a poor game, yes but so did Webb, Jenkins, Warburton and Hibbard. Unfortunately when Biggar came on Wales looked even worse, he cannot play at all behind a beaten pack.

For me England were the better side and deserved to win, the bid decision was to allow the first try,. I think all of Wales thought the Ref had indicated that he wanted to speak to a Welsh player so the quick take should not have been allowed.

The other big decision was not to sub Gethin Jenkins at half time, the ref had no idea what was going on in the scrums but has clearly decided to blame Gethin, Gats should have subbed him and saved Wales from playing 10 mins with 14 men.

Well done England, but Wales will come back.

i think the ref and the rest of the world knew what was going on as could be seen from the overhead shot.

What was his indication for the whole welsh team to start walking back to the the try line? if they thought the ref wanted to speak to them surely they would of walked to the ref instead of retreat to the try line.

Are you suggesting that when the ref looks to be going for a yellow card the player would rush up to see who is going off!!!!!!!

I think actually the players were waiting to see who the ref wanted to talk too. Poor refing but probably did not affect the result.

eh? No, i was refering to your suggestion that "I think all of Wales thought the Ref had indicated that he wanted to speak to a Welsh player so the quick take should not have been allowed" . What im saying is that if the players thought that, why did they start to retreat to the line?

Really think your clutching at straws here mate.

All the Wales players and the commentators thought the ref wanted to speak to a Welsh player and therefor would not allow the quick tap. At best the ref was not clear in what he intended to do. As I said poor reffing.

I've just watched it back, your either mistaken or just flat out lying. He plays advantage, runs back to the mark whilst shouting "number 2 offside". Stops on the mark and care takes the quick tap.

The commentators never mentioned anything about the ref wanting to speak to a welsh player and no welsh player approachs the ref.

[Scrumpy]

Seagultaf,
Take it up with the irb then 

'Dear IRB,

The commentators thought the Ref wanted to talk to the player who gave the penalty away, it just isn't fair boo hoo hoo!'


Mate that sounds ridiculous, just accept it was a fair move and move on.  

Wales switched off, end of.

[nathan]

The ref doesn't have to be clear. If he wants to talk to players he has to be clear. If he doesn't...well everyone carries on as normal. Until the ref says "time off" or the team indicate a kick at goal the game is still live. EVERYONE knows that and it was naive and foolish at best for the Welsh team.

We're still waiting for you to pass on how the ref had indicated he wanted a word with the Welsh player.

He was very clear giving the arm action for offside.

[Heaf]

This is what actually happened …

The ref was playing advantage, he then blew for the penalty and ran to the spot, indicated it was for No. 2 being offside and then Care took the quick tap and was over the line.

At no point did he do or say anything to indicate he wanted to speak to a Welsh player - to suggest they thought that is not based on what happened.

[TJ]

If the referee consistently allows quick taps that's ok - but if later in the game he stops a quick tap by the opposition and then has to apologise - it just creates an unfair disparity.

Because the attempt was not from the right place.  More stupid trolling from GE - I don't know why you do it and why you are not banned for it.  

Its not "stupid trolling" just because someone has a different opinion to you!

Its stupid trolling from a serial troll He knows enough about rugby to know the answer. He posted that comment simply to cause a row. he does this consistently and has been warned for it many times.

GE is a troll.

[HammerofThunor]

The ref doesn't have to be clear. If he wants to talk to players he has to be clear. If he doesn't...well everyone carries on as normal. Until the ref says "time off" or the team indicate a kick at goal the game is still live. EVERYONE knows that and it was naive and foolish at best for the Welsh team.

We're still waiting for you to pass on how the ref had indicated he wanted a word with the Welsh player.

He was very clear giving the arm action for offside.

I meant he doesn't have to be clear he doesn't want to speak to someone. The entire concept of that is ridiculous. "Sam? SAM? I do NOT want to speak to any of your players, OK?"

[majesticimperialman]

How much of today's game was down to home advantage?

How much of today's game was down to England playing better than Wales?

And finaly how much was today's game was down too Wales not playing well at all?

[TrailApe]

All the Wales players and the commentators thought the ref wanted to speak to a Welsh player and therefor would not allow the quick tap. At best the ref was not clear in what he intended to do. As I said poor reffing.

Evidence?

The highlights are up on BBC - nothing on the replay backs up your opinion.

[HammerofThunor]

Perhaps he indicated it with his eyes.

[Heaf]

Or telepathy?

[nlpnlp]

Wales were well beaten - WUMs can look for excuses with this and that. But the truth was that England today were much much better. If you don't accept this fine - then you won't improve and move on. Meaning England wil beat you next year in the 6 Nations and world cup. Bury your head in the sand and get left behind by everyone else.

[beshocked]

It's funny to think that before this 6 nations Care and Farrell had never started at 9-10 together. They look pretty comfortable as a halfback combo. Both bringing different strengths and styles together.

Webb looked good vs France but seemed out of his depth in my opinion vs England. Priestland also had a game to forget.

England mixed up their game pretty nicely in my opinion which made it difficult for Wales to counter it.

Discipline from England wasn't great but they will be pleased with their defence and overall control of the match.

If Wales were to win it in the 2nd half they needed to make changes sooner.

Gatland and Wales were tactically out thought. England's forwards did very well but it's s huge moral booster for the pack when their backs are making the most of their work.

In contrast it must have been demoralising for the welsh pack to see them having to defend a 5 metre line out because their backs are giving the opposition too much space and time for their kicks.

[nathan]

agh, just read that 1/2p is in fact out for the season, not just the tournament.

[Scrumpy]

Perhaps he indicated it with his eyes.

 


It really is a non story, wales switched off, basic school boy error!

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