England vs Wales Match day thread

[maestegmafia]

First topic message reminder :

SIX NATIONS: ENGLAND V WALES
Venue: Twickenham Date: Sunday, 9 March Kick-off: 15:00 GMT
Coverage: Watch live on BBC One, BBC One HD, listen on BBC Radio 5 Live

England

15-Mike Brown, 14-Jack Nowell, 13-Luther Burrell, 12-Billy Twelvetrees, 11-Jonny May, 10-Owen Farrell, 9-Danny Care

1-Joe Marler, 2-Dylan Hartley, 3-David Wilson, 4-Joe Launchbury, 5-Courtney Lawes, 6-Tom Wood, 7-Chris Robshaw (captain), 8-Ben Morgan

Replacements: 16-Tom Youngs, 17-Mako Vunipola, 18-Henry Thomas, 19-Dave Attwood, 20-Tom Johnson, 21-Lee Dickson, 22-George Ford, 23-Alex Goode


Wales

15-Leigh Halfpenny, 14-Alex Cuthbert, 13-Jonathan Davies, 12-Jamie Roberts, 11-George North, 10-Rhys Priestland, 9-Rhys Webb

1-Gethin Jenkins, 2-Richard Hibbard, 3-Adam Jones, 4-Jake Ball, 5-Alun Wyn Jones, 6-Dan Lydiate, 7-Sam Warburton (capt), 8-Taulupe Faletau

Replacements: Ken Owens, Paul James, Rhodri Jones, Andrew Coombs, Justin Tipuric, Mike Phillips, Dan Biggar, Liam Williams
MATCH OFFICIALS

Referee : Romain Poite (Fra)

Touch judges : Steve Walsh (Aus) & Lourens van der Merwe (RSA)
TV Official : Simon McDowell (Ire)


Next up for Wales is a trip to London and after all the banter coming out of the England camp it is time to finish the hype this match has been building and play some rugby. Have England improved on last year? Will home advantage be enough? Has Wales over come a trough and reached another high?

With plenty of injuries to key players, in fact some of England's very best players are out of this game, a convincing win for England over Wales will give the nation huge confidence going forward, maybe even a shot at the championship next weekend.

The build up seems to have been all about England, Wales are a known entity, twice champions in recent years with pretty much the same team they field tomorrow, little change to their game plan or style gives very little to discuss.

On the many various threads the situation is similar, all about England, with very little admiration of this perceivably over-rated Welsh team that have failed to beat a Southern Hemisphere top three team since 2008, the mark of all great sides.

In all honesty a tough and challenging end to the Six Nations will do this Welsh set up some good, possibly more good than the confidence a third consecutive championship would give them. Wales have little to lose and less to prove, a defeat in the manner of last years game would be vastly more detrimental to their hosts.

I hope all the fans enjoy the game, I am sure it will be the usual roller coaster of emotion for both Nations.

[Scrumpy]

Ireland's to lose IMO.

[George Carlin]

I just think back to Woodward saying at half time he would have swapped in Philips and Biggar for the second half. Always easy in retrospect to say that it would have been the right thing to do.

But, well, I think the signs were there at the time that would have been the right thing to do.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

One thing I will question about Robshaw's captaincy, with 5 minutes left, England had a easy penalty kick, that would have put them 14 points ahead with 4 minutes left. Robshaw elected to kick for touch and drive the lineout, which ended up being turned over.

Shades of South Africa?

He must learn to secure the game first, Wales are quite capable of scoring two quick tries

[Rugby Fan]

I don't recall seeing a side-on wide view of Burrell's try. When he touched it down, I must admit I thought he must have been ahead of the kicker. No-one seemed to have any problem, though, so it would have have been a nifty turn of speed.

[mystiroakey]

The try was pre worked out- 36 told Burrell what he was going to do before he got the ball

[nathan]

One thing I will question about Robshaw's captaincy, with 5 minutes left, England had a easy penalty kick, that would have put them 14 points ahead with 4 minutes left. Robshaw elected to kick for touch and drive the lineout, which ended up being turned over.

Shades of South Africa?

He must learn to secure the game first, Wales are quite capable of scoring two quick tries

It was 2 minutes left, we had already won the game. I think he wanted a better points difference for next week.

[TJ]

I just think back to Woodward saying at half time he would have swapped in Philips and Biggar for the second half. Always easy in retrospect to say that it would have been the right thing to do.

But, well, I think the signs were there at the time that would have been the right thing to do.

Biggar yes, Phillips no. He showed why not when he came on. Caught in possession twice IIRC, simply to slow in thought and deed. Whatever happened to Ritchie Ress? He is the sort of player Wales need at 9

[glamorganalun]

For me the one positive ts everybody can't miss how rubbish the Wales 10 is time and time again he does not have the composure/class to play 10 at any level. I hope this will see an end of random kicking, missing touch and kick offs. Some Welsh supporters still won't see his limitations because he plays for their club side.

If Gatland picks the same 10 in the next match again Garland should go or Wales will have no chance in the RWC with a clown at 10.

[hugehandoff]

Glamorgan.....is Biggar the man or do you think Hook could still do a class job at 10?

[HammerofThunor]

One thing I will question about Robshaw's captaincy, with 5 minutes left, England had a easy penalty kick, that would have put them 14 points ahead with 4 minutes left. Robshaw elected to kick for touch and drive the lineout, which ended up being turned over.

Shades of South Africa?

He must learn to secure the game first, Wales are quite capable of scoring two quick tries

It was 2 minutes left, we had already won the game. I think he wanted a better points difference for next week.

+1 Not only that but if they hadn't fluffed it would have eaten up more time. Right call IMO

[hugehandoff]

plus England clearly need some wingers. I would bring Yarde back in for Nowell against Italy and then Wade as soon as he is fit. I might even advocate starting Yarde and Ashton.....cannot believe I wrote that so maybe keep May and leave Ashton in Coventry for a bit longer.

[Cumbrian]

So against Wales we've won the first team clash, crushed the u20s, won the 7s clash and the women's.  Do you guys want to go double or quits on a game of darts or something???   

[Scrumpy]

plus England clearly need some wingers. I would bring Yarde back in for Nowell against Italy and then Wade as soon as he is fit. I might even advocate starting Yarde and Ashton.....cannot believe I wrote that so maybe keep May and leave Ashton in Coventry for a bit longer.

Yarde maybe but I like May, he keeps everyone guessing.

[HammerofThunor]

Guessing which way he's going? Forward? Backward? No, sideways.

[Seagultaf]

No surprise on this board that when Wales lose the 10 gets blamed, he had a poor game, yes but so did Webb, Jenkins, Warburton and Hibbard. Unfortunately when Biggar came on Wales looked even worse, he cannot play at all behind a beaten pack.

For me England were the better side and deserved to win, the bid decision was to allow the first try,. I think all of Wales thought the Ref had indicated that he wanted to speak to a Welsh player so the quick take should not have been allowed.

The other big decision was not to sub Gethin Jenkins at half time, the ref had no idea what was going on in the scrums but has clearly decided to blame Gethin, Gats should have subbed him and saved Wales from playing 10 mins with 14 men.

Well done England, but Wales will come back.

[glamorganalun]

Glamorgan.....is Biggar the man or do you think Hook could still do a class job at 10?

Biggar proved his worth last year under Howley Gatland does not pick on form as seen on the Lions tour , injured plays come straight back into the side and form seems to be ignored. Yes I would have Hook as cover on the bench.

[nathan]

being reported that 1/2p is out for the rest of the tournament with a dislocated shoulder.

[mystiroakey]

So against Wales we've won the first team clash, crushed the u20s, won the 7s clash and the women's.  Do you guys want to go double or quits on a game of darts or something???   

Not sure they will want to take on the mighty Phil taylor mate..

[Rugby Fan]

Telegraph initial match report says England "never seemed in danger of defeat". That seems a bit excessive. I was biting my nails in the third quarter as we kept giving Halfpenny three points. It also looked like Wales might keep the ball in hand which worried me.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/10683743/England-29-Wales-18-Six-Nations-2014-match-report.html

[mystiroakey]

being reported that 1/2p is out for the rest of the tournament with a dislocated shoulder.

Thats a shame.. Great tackle-

Not many got have stopped that try

[Cumbrian]

May was far too indecisive. Going into contact half hearted at this level is going to either get you piledrivered or turned over. Needs to take a leaf out of Browns book, total commitment is the way forward.

[lostinwales]

plus England clearly need some wingers. I would bring Yarde back in for Nowell against Italy and then Wade as soon as he is fit. I might even advocate starting Yarde and Ashton.....cannot believe I wrote that so maybe keep May and leave Ashton in Coventry for a bit longer.

Yarde maybe but I like May, he keeps everyone guessing.

Mixed bag from May. (And Nowell). On the plus side both were secure under the high ball, both looked lively on attack and May did set up the ruck that lead to Burrell's try. Both made mistakes leading to kicks from 1/2p. They will both play next week. Long term depends on lots of things, particularly the form of Yarde and Wade.

[ChequeredJersey]

Happy with how most of that went, now let's teach our backs how to compete at the breakdown (Farrell and Brown excepted), practice passing under "pressure" (we seem fine under pressure in our own 22 etc, it's the pressure of being about to score taht seems to do for our composure) and stop giving away silly penalties and then see where our very best gets us against Italy next week

[lostinwales]

Telegraph initial match report says England "never seemed in danger of defeat". That seems a bit excessive. I was biting my nails in the third quarter as we kept giving Halfpenny three points. It also looked like Wales might keep the ball in hand which worried me.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/10683743/England-29-Wales-18-Six-Nations-2014-match-report.html

One kick 3 points thats all that Wales got in the 2nd half

[Rugby Fan]

being reported that 1/2p is out for the rest of the tournament with a dislocated shoulder.

Wonder if that means a start for Hook. Personally, I'd go for Lee Byrne, but you'd need Priestland or Biggar to take the kicks.

[Scrumpy]

The other big decision was not to sub Gethin Jenkins at half time, the ref had no idea what was going on in the scrums but has clearly decided to blame Gethin.

 


I've said it for weeks months even, he has lost it and he needs to be replaced, the new scrum laws don't suit him and to be honest he should call it a day.

One of the 1st scrums if not the 1st scrum he collapsed it yet wales got the penalty!

[welshy824 (new)]

in fairness, whatever peoples views of halfpenny regarding his attacking threat, in defence he always puts his rather small body on the line, I wish a few more of the welsh players had that commitment in the tackle today as we were slipping off tackles way too much, apart from lydiate, who always seem to be there to prevent brown making too many yards!!

[ChequeredJersey]

One thing I will question about Robshaw's captaincy, with 5 minutes left, England had a easy penalty kick, that would have put them 14 points ahead with 4 minutes left. Robshaw elected to kick for touch and drive the lineout, which ended up being turned over.

Shades of South Africa?

He must learn to secure the game first, Wales are quite capable of scoring two quick tries

Not that quickly they weren't. That match was won by then

[TJ]

The other big decision was not to sub Gethin Jenkins at half time, the ref had no idea what was going on in the scrums but has clearly decided to blame Gethin, Gats should have subbed him and saved Wales from playing 10 mins with 14 men.

Gethin was clearly going in at an angle right from the first scrum.  Was warned and continued to do it.  Very obvious, spotted by Moore at the first scrum.  Correct decision from the ref.

[Scrumpy]

being reported that 1/2p is out for the rest of the tournament with a dislocated shoulder.

Wonder if that means a start for Hook. Personally, I'd go for Lee Byrne, but you'd need Priestland or Biggar to take the kicks.

So wales are relying on kicks to score points these days.

[ChequeredJersey]

being reported that 1/2p is out for the rest of the tournament with a dislocated shoulder.

Wonder if that means a start for Hook. Personally, I'd go for Lee Byrne, but you'd need Priestland or Biggar to take the kicks.

Liam Williams will start at FB, Hook to bench

[nathan]

No surprise on this board that when Wales lose the 10 gets blamed, he had a poor game, yes but so did Webb, Jenkins, Warburton and Hibbard. Unfortunately when Biggar came on Wales looked even worse, he cannot play at all behind a beaten pack.

For me England were the better side and deserved to win, the bid decision was to allow the first try,. I think all of Wales thought the Ref had indicated that he wanted to speak to a Welsh player so the quick take should not have been allowed.

The other big decision was not to sub Gethin Jenkins at half time, the ref had no idea what was going on in the scrums but has clearly decided to blame Gethin, Gats should have subbed him and saved Wales from playing 10 mins with 14 men.

Well done England, but Wales will come back.

i think the ref and the rest of the world knew what was going on as could be seen from the overhead shot.

What was his indication for the whole welsh team to start walking back to the the try line? if they thought the ref wanted to speak to them surely they would of walked to the ref instead of retreat to the try line.

[SecretFly]

It didn't matter who you'd pick, from Priestland, Biggar or Hook...the main point is that in this game Prietland was ineffective from kick off, didn't look like he was warming up or into the game as time went on, and Gatand still persisted with him - eating down game time and team options as he did a Hamlet on his dilemma.

Rob Howley had to sit there obediently on his hands and I'm sure he must have mumbled off and on, hoping his boss would hear and acknowledge..."Get Priestland off.... Biggar *cough*..Biggar wouldn't be worse.  We have nothing to lose here."

I just don't see the point in this traditional readiness for holding on to something that isn't working.  It doesn't seem to matter that a player is having difficulties imposing himself on the game, the coaches tend to hold onto them for the first half anyway, and then even for some minutes of the second half.  
I can never understand the reasoning and I don't care a hoot about player psychology.  A player knows when he is playing sub-standard stuff, it doesn't matter if his confidence levels are abused if he's replaced before half time.  If he's having a bad game, he's already more than aware that his confidence levels are in the sewer.  The coach's job is to effect a win.  Gatland didn't take that role seriously enough today.  You might also include the Welsh 9 in a similar argument.

[Seagultaf]

The other big decision was not to sub Gethin Jenkins at half time, the ref had no idea what was going on in the scrums but has clearly decided to blame Gethin, Gats should have subbed him and saved Wales from playing 10 mins with 14 men.

Gethin was clearly going in at an angle right from the first scrum.  Was warned and continued to do it.  Very obvious, spotted by Moore at the first scrum.  Correct decision from the ref.

I don't know how obvious it was, I believe the ref did not have a clue! Lets be honest it could just has easily have been the English tight head taking a backwards step. The fact was the ref thought it was Gethin so the sensible reaction would be to sub him.

[ChequeredJersey]

Not expecting Danny Care to quick tap there is plain moronic, means they did no homework at all

[Rugby Fan]

So wales are relying on kicks to score points these days.

I wouldn't say that. I doubt Gatland will choose Byrne but, if they do go that way, then Wales will have to consider who will have kicking duties. We needed Farrell's boot today to keep our points cushion.

[quinsforever]

tbh i thought poite was going to give hibbard a straight yellow for his interference at that ruck on the welsh tryline while clearly offside.

in fact wouldnt have been surprised to see a penalty try given considering the overlap. so i'm not surprised the welsh players were anticipating further words from Poite.

try to care seems completely fair all things considered.

[ChequeredJersey]

The other big decision was not to sub Gethin Jenkins at half time, the ref had no idea what was going on in the scrums but has clearly decided to blame Gethin, Gats should have subbed him and saved Wales from playing 10 mins with 14 men.

Gethin was clearly going in at an angle right from the first scrum.  Was warned and continued to do it.  Very obvious, spotted by Moore at the first scrum.  Correct decision from the ref.

I don't know how obvious it was, I believe the ref did not have a clue! Lets be honest it could just has easily have been the English tight head taking a backwards step. The fact was the ref thought it was Gethin so the sensible reaction would be to sub him.

It was incredibly obvious. The ref was next to Jenkins for most of the scrums and he was boring in at most of the scrums, and Poite is generally acknowledged to be a good refereer of the scrums, although one who will penalise a side off the park once he's decided tehy are guilty

[SecretFly]

Not expecting Danny Care to quick tap there is plain moronic, means they did no homework at all

You don't need to do much homework...just look at the 9 and recognise that it's Danny Care. It really was unforgiveable that so many Welsh players turned their back to him in such a dangerous position. Almost amounting to an insult.

[TJ]

The other big decision was not to sub Gethin Jenkins at half time, the ref had no idea what was going on in the scrums but has clearly decided to blame Gethin, Gats should have subbed him and saved Wales from playing 10 mins with 14 men.

Gethin was clearly going in at an angle right from the first scrum.  Was warned and continued to do it.  Very obvious, spotted by Moore at the first scrum.  Correct decision from the ref.

I don't know how obvious it was, I believe the ref did not have a clue! Lets be honest it could just has easily have been the English tight head taking a backwards step. The fact was the ref thought it was Gethin so the sensible reaction would be to sub him.

Well I saw it from the first Scrum. Moore saw it , the ref saw it. the match is not on Iplayer yet but when it is I shall take a screenshot of the first scrum to show you Very easily seen on the overhead shot. Even tho Poite gave Wales a pen at the first scrum he did warn Warburton about the angle Gethin was scrummaging at ( possibly after the second Scrum)

[quinsforever]

very well played england overall. well played wales in the second half, but again, england's defence against the full frontal attack looked nigh impenetrable. Wales needed more credible variety, but until that becomes part of gatball, wales are going to struggle to break into the top tier of world rugby.

Had burrell not been so well tackled by 1/2P that would have been try of the year without question in such a big game. passes out of the back of hand from forwards? from england? fantasy stuff!

[Scrumpy]

So where does this leave wales?

They have taken another massive step backwards IMO.

They have issues with their two props, scrum half, fly half, Roberts is predictable their wingers look too big if they are contained or turned.

Issues, head aches and nightmares all over the park for Gatland and co, Warrenball is dead.

[Seagultaf]

being reported that 1/2p is out for the rest of the tournament with a dislocated shoulder.

Wonder if that means a start for Hook. Personally, I'd go for Lee Byrne, but you'd need Priestland or Biggar to take the kicks.

I really hope that Hook is not called in, he is an useful utility back but nowhere near a starting place. If 1/2p is not available then Liam Williams for 15 with Biggar edging Priestland at 10 for his place kicking.

The big question for Wales is the front 5 who again were missing in action. If Charteris is fit he must come in, James for Jenkins with Rhodri Jones as possible bench cover. Lee must cover Adam on the bench and is Hibbard under pressure from Ken Owens?

[MissBlennerhassett]

Poite managed the scrum well, Gethin has cheated many refs, notably Walsh last year, but was rumbled today. Hooray!

Generally, I don't think the game was as one sided as most on here or the BBC pundits for that matter. Okay England looked to be in control, but didn't put Wales to the sword. I thought the Welsh back row kept them in it, North was always a threat, so England could never relax.

A convincing win yes but not totally one-sided as many are saying.

[TJ]

The wingers need to be given a few decent passes in a game for starters. North looked dangerous when he got the ball. Wales have possibly the best back 3 in the 6N - why not use them?

[Scrumpy]

The wingers need to be given a few decent passes in a game for starters.  North looked dangerous when he got the ball.  Wales have possibly the best back 3 in the 6N - why not use them?

They miss Shane though!

[majesticimperialman]

Did Alun Wyn Jones play today? I don.t recall any of the pundits Morre Butlar saying his name even once.

[Seagultaf]

No surprise on this board that when Wales lose the 10 gets blamed, he had a poor game, yes but so did Webb, Jenkins, Warburton and Hibbard. Unfortunately when Biggar came on Wales looked even worse, he cannot play at all behind a beaten pack.

For me England were the better side and deserved to win, the bid decision was to allow the first try,. I think all of Wales thought the Ref had indicated that he wanted to speak to a Welsh player so the quick take should not have been allowed.

The other big decision was not to sub Gethin Jenkins at half time, the ref had no idea what was going on in the scrums but has clearly decided to blame Gethin, Gats should have subbed him and saved Wales from playing 10 mins with 14 men.

Well done England, but Wales will come back.

i think the ref and the rest of the world knew what was going on as could be seen from the overhead shot.

What was his indication for the whole welsh team to start walking back to the the try line? if they thought the ref wanted to speak to them surely they would of walked to the ref instead of retreat to the try line.

Are you suggesting that when the ref looks to be going for a yellow card the player would rush up to see who is going off!!!!!!!

I think actually the players were waiting to see who the ref wanted to talk too. Poor refing but probably did not affect the result.

[Heaf]

What evidence have you got for thinking the ref had said he wanted to talk to one of the Welsh players?

[TJ]

Why is it poor reffing? Because he didn't give the deserved yellow card? When he is going to lecture players he signals "time off". he didn't do this

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