England vs Wales Match day thread

[maestegmafia]

First topic message reminder :

SIX NATIONS: ENGLAND V WALES
Venue: Twickenham Date: Sunday, 9 March Kick-off: 15:00 GMT
Coverage: Watch live on BBC One, BBC One HD, listen on BBC Radio 5 Live

England

15-Mike Brown, 14-Jack Nowell, 13-Luther Burrell, 12-Billy Twelvetrees, 11-Jonny May, 10-Owen Farrell, 9-Danny Care

1-Joe Marler, 2-Dylan Hartley, 3-David Wilson, 4-Joe Launchbury, 5-Courtney Lawes, 6-Tom Wood, 7-Chris Robshaw (captain), 8-Ben Morgan

Replacements: 16-Tom Youngs, 17-Mako Vunipola, 18-Henry Thomas, 19-Dave Attwood, 20-Tom Johnson, 21-Lee Dickson, 22-George Ford, 23-Alex Goode


Wales

15-Leigh Halfpenny, 14-Alex Cuthbert, 13-Jonathan Davies, 12-Jamie Roberts, 11-George North, 10-Rhys Priestland, 9-Rhys Webb

1-Gethin Jenkins, 2-Richard Hibbard, 3-Adam Jones, 4-Jake Ball, 5-Alun Wyn Jones, 6-Dan Lydiate, 7-Sam Warburton (capt), 8-Taulupe Faletau

Replacements: Ken Owens, Paul James, Rhodri Jones, Andrew Coombs, Justin Tipuric, Mike Phillips, Dan Biggar, Liam Williams
MATCH OFFICIALS

Referee : Romain Poite (Fra)

Touch judges : Steve Walsh (Aus) & Lourens van der Merwe (RSA)
TV Official : Simon McDowell (Ire)


Next up for Wales is a trip to London and after all the banter coming out of the England camp it is time to finish the hype this match has been building and play some rugby. Have England improved on last year? Will home advantage be enough? Has Wales over come a trough and reached another high?

With plenty of injuries to key players, in fact some of England's very best players are out of this game, a convincing win for England over Wales will give the nation huge confidence going forward, maybe even a shot at the championship next weekend.

The build up seems to have been all about England, Wales are a known entity, twice champions in recent years with pretty much the same team they field tomorrow, little change to their game plan or style gives very little to discuss.

On the many various threads the situation is similar, all about England, with very little admiration of this perceivably over-rated Welsh team that have failed to beat a Southern Hemisphere top three team since 2008, the mark of all great sides.

In all honesty a tough and challenging end to the Six Nations will do this Welsh set up some good, possibly more good than the confidence a third consecutive championship would give them. Wales have little to lose and less to prove, a defeat in the manner of last years game would be vastly more detrimental to their hosts.

I hope all the fans enjoy the game, I am sure it will be the usual roller coaster of emotion for both Nations.

[Geordie]

Launchbury and Lawes were fantastic.

Likewise Care, Brown, Burrell etc etc..and Twelvetrees had a good game.

But for me Marler and Wood were the quiet unsung guys who just crack on and do their jobs superbly with no fuss or frills. Ive praised Marler many times this 6n as i really think he doesnt get any praise at all and he's getting better and better.

[Scrumpy]

36 had a great game, maybe some of us were wrong to want him out of the team?

Easily his best performance FOR England so far.

I didn't realise how far ahead Ireland are on point difference, come on France sort yourself s out.

[ChequeredJersey]

I was really worried for Marler when the first scrum was smashed. That quickly changed

[Poorfour]

Launchbury and Lawes were fantastic.

Likewise Care, Brown, Burrell etc etc..and Twelvetrees had a good game.

But for me Marler and Wood were the quiet unsung guys who just crack on and do their jobs superbly with no fuss or frills. Ive praised Marler many times this 6n as i really think he doesnt get any praise at all and he's getting better and better.

I hope it's laid to rest any argument that he can't scrummage. He's not - currently - a particularly destructive scrummager, but his side of the scrum held up every time and went forward most times. The two scrum penalties England conceded were against Wilson and Vunipola.

[Scrumpy]

The 1st scrum wasn't smashed legally! it was one that Gethin got away with.   

[Poorfour]

The 1st scrum wasn't smashed legally! it was one that Gethin got away with.   

Quite. And Poite had picked up on Jenkins' body angle even at that point, because he warned Warburton after awarding the penalty. But he gave Wales the pen because England had wheeled - Jenkins had crunched Wilson inwards and the scrum had pivoted around that with Marler and Hartley driving Jones and Hibbard backwards.

[Scrumpy]

I think I might watch the game again tonight, maybe I'll be able to see how the Ref tricked Wales into thinking he was going to talk to a Welsh player before giving Care the wink to score under the posts!  

[lostinwales]

right, wheres Scratch. hehe

He's decided he's half English now   

To give him credit he posted a very gracious message higher up this thread. Might be a little while before we see one or two others back.

[Geordie]

Launchbury and Lawes were fantastic.

Likewise Care, Brown, Burrell etc etc..and Twelvetrees had a good game.

But for me Marler and Wood were the quiet unsung guys who just crack on and do their jobs superbly with no fuss or frills. Ive praised Marler many times this 6n as i really think he doesnt get any praise at all and he's getting better and better.

I hope it's laid to rest any argument that he can't scrummage. He's not - currently - a particularly destructive scrummager, but his side of the scrum held up every time and went forward most times. The two scrum penalties England conceded were against Wilson and Vunipola.

Absolutely. He was never a destructive scrummager...and he may never be. However he is more than solid...and has proved very good in the scrums this year.

His work around the park however is right up there...huge and the breakdown, fierce powerful tackles...does his share of carrying now...and he will continue to improve.

[englandglory4ever]

Did I see a bunch of boys just mug a group of ageing men? ... I looked over Jordan and what did I see? A bunch of welshmen quite easy to beat ... . (sung to the tune of swing low.)

[BamBam]

right, wheres Scratch. hehe

He's decided he's half English now   

To give him credit he posted a very gracious message higher up this thread. Might be a little while before we see one or two others back.

I fear we will be missing a Saintly presence amongst us for a while

[Scrumpy]

I think it will be a very quite this week, I guess they'll be hanging up their pink cowboy hats and deflating their inflatable Leeks for another year!   

[XR]

Who will be the first to call for a ban on quick tap penalties? Care poached the easiest of tries. Or was it simply that Wales were feeling the burn.

It was a cracking try i thought, quick thinking at it's best. The wales players should be embarassed, even at under 12 level you get coached NEVER to turn your back when giving away a penalty and how many of the welsh team did that? It was disgusting to see that such a basic element of defense in rugby being ignored so early in a game.

Warren Gatland, before the france game, said some players were playing for their future. Well i think it's safe to say that Dan Biggar should be considered Wales fly half for last game, the autumn internationals and then next years six nations. Priestland just isn't producing the goods and when you want to play a direct game with a kicking element, having a fly half who cannot implement the kicking side just negates the whole thing.

It also doesn't help that Priestland shies away from defensive work, there was one ruck in particular where England were attacking and he was first man there. Regardless of if it's a forward or a back, if you're the first at a ruck you get stuck in to either get a turnover or slow it down. He simply ran off. Then there was that knock on because he was watching the england players coming his way.

It's time for Biggar to be given the reigns and Priestland to be dropped from the squad.

[lostinwales]

Launchbury and Lawes were fantastic.

Likewise Care, Brown, Burrell etc etc..and Twelvetrees had a good game.

But for me Marler and Wood were the quiet unsung guys who just crack on and do their jobs superbly with no fuss or frills. Ive praised Marler many times this 6n as i really think he doesnt get any praise at all and he's getting better and better.

I hope it's laid to rest any argument that he can't scrummage. He's not - currently - a particularly destructive scrummager, but his side of the scrum held up every time and went forward most times. The two scrum penalties England conceded were against Wilson and Vunipola.

Absolutely. He was never a destructive scrummager...and he may never be. However he is more than solid...and has proved very good in the scrums this year.

His work around the park however is right up there...huge and the breakdown, fierce powerful tackles...does his share of carrying now...and he will continue to improve.

And its worth tracking down some of the inside England videos in which he is being interviewed. Very very funny

[Jimpy]

right, wheres Scratch. hehe

He's decided he's half English now   

To give him credit he posted a very gracious message higher up this thread. Might be a little while before we see one or two others back.

I fear we will be missing a Saintly presence amongst us for a while

And a multi-coloured warrior no doubt.

[englandglory4ever]

In the media this week England said they want to take teams to "dark places" . I think they did that to Wales yesterday and will be very pleased with themselves. What a difference it makes when a ref can spot a prop boring in.

[Poorfour]

The 1st scrum wasn't smashed legally! it was one that Gethin got away with.   

Quite. And Poite had picked up on Jenkins' body angle even at that point, because he warned Warburton after awarding the penalty. But he gave Wales the pen because England had wheeled - Jenkins had crunched Wilson inwards and the scrum had pivoted around that with Marler and Hartley driving Jones and Hibbard backwards.

[englandglory4ever]

The 1st scrum wasn't smashed legally! it was one that Gethin got away with.   

Quite. And Poite had picked up on Jenkins' body angle even at that point, because he warned Warburton after awarding the penalty. But he gave Wales the pen because England had wheeled - Jenkins had crunched Wilson inwards and the scrum had pivoted around that with Marler and Hartley driving Jones and Hibbard backwards.

nah. Wales pushed early and got away with it the first time.

[aitchw]

Great performance all round by the lads, brilliant. Still have my doubts about Nowell and May but glad they've been given a run of games and have improved each time. At last Danny seems to have controlled his off pitch antics to focus on his rugby and how it shows. We've got the busy, bossy, cheaky little so and so England needs and it's working a treat. Luther's played himself into an almost impossible to drop position and has improved every outing. All across the field players are stepping up giving their all. Biggest issue now is stopping people doing stupid uneccessary things that give away points. At least 9 points to Wales were just dumb. However, I'm finally allowing myself to believe that this is a squad going places.

I genuinely feel sorry for the Welsh lads as I honestly believe they are suffering from poor tactics imposed by an unimaginative coaching set up. It's easy to single out players like Priestland but not entirely fair. Few 10s can cope with a pack that's going nowhere and that was happening because the game plan was all wrong. It's still a team that can't be taken lightly but they need to build their game around the undoubted skills they have and mix things up a bit.

[Taffineastbourne]

The crowd was amazing. I was there and to a man they wanted England to win and win well. The team got us singing and shouting. Can't speak today. Fantastic day and awesome performance by the guys. Particularly strong in defence. Brilliant.

Sorry but you are delusional.There were plenty of Welsh fans there and I would be amazed that they all wanted England to win.I certainly didn't!
All the England team played well apart from Hartley who kept us in the game.
Our starting half backs returned the favour.
The English second row were fantastic and Care would be a Lions starter if there was a Tour coming up.
Too much kicking for my liking,most of it aimless but even in this England were superior.The playing conditions were perfect for handling Rugby but game plans were rigidly stuck to  

[Scrumpy]

What did Hartley do wrong?

He only gave away one penalty I think and played Hibbard off the pitch

[englandglory4ever]

Can halfpenny actually run? I've never seen a fullback get so much ball and just kick it aimlessly away. He looked like a one trick pony all day.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Can halfpenny actually run? I've never seen a fullback get so much ball and just kick it aimlessly away. He looked like a one trick pony all day.

Brown kicked 9 times, Halpenny 7.

  

[SecretFly]

Can halfpenny actually run? I've never seen a fullback get so much ball and just kick it aimlessly away. He looked like a one trick pony all day.

Maybe it's orders from a Boss?  Have you watched Halfpenny through his career?  I mean all of it.  He's not exactly sloppy in the running and evasion game or in scoring as a wing.  And check out the last Lions game in Australia.  He was all over that game.

But at Wales he has orders.  He probably listens to the orders to make sure he stays on the side.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

England actually kicked more possession than Wales did.

[Scrumpy]

But at Wales he has orders.  He probably listens to the orders to make sure he stays on the side.

Are those order to stay out of trouble, as we (Wales) can't score if you are not there to take long range kicks!   

[Taffineastbourne]

[quote="englandglory4ever"]Can halfpenny actually run? I've never seen a fullback get so much ball and just kick it aimlessly away. He looked like a one trick pony all day.[/quote
Did you have too much hospitality?Brown lashed a good few downfield as well.Regarding Halfpenny's running ability,I am amazed that you have not seen his Wales Under 20's ,Cardiff Blues and Lions efforts.

[beshocked]

England actually kicked more possession than Wales did.

The difference was when England did kick they were generally better at finding space to kick to and the chase was better too.

In comparison Wales gave the English back three so much time and space. Not the wisest strategy to kick the ball straight to one of the form FBs in the NH and give him all the time in the world.

Kick the ball well and you're forgiven.

[SecretFly]

But at Wales he has orders.  He probably listens to the orders to make sure he stays on the side.

Are those order to stay out of trouble, as we (Wales) can't score if you are not there to take long range kicks!   

Quite possibly that might be part of a theory given to Halfpenny.  He didn't listen to it yesterday of course because he had nothing to lose at that point.

Halfpenny is a fine player...underused by Gatland's system....possibly for the very reason you state.  He is one calming influence on a team as a kicker.  We'd all love that straight-through-the-posts-at-most-angles-and-most-doable-distances certainty on all our teams

[Scrumpy]

I'd put him back on the wing, Cuthbert look out of his depth and very slow yesterday.

[Sgt_Pooly]

I thought Cuthbert played really well yesterday, he was probably the most effective Welsh back.

[Scrumpy]

Thats not saying much!

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

I thought Cuthbert played really well yesterday, he was probably the most effective Welsh back.

His tackling on particular was exemplary.

  

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

England actually kicked more possession than Wales did.

The difference was when England did kick they were generally better at finding space to kick to and the chase was better too.

In comparison Wales gave the English back three so much time and space. Not the wisest strategy to kick the ball straight to one of the form FBs in the NH and give him all the time in the world.

Kick the ball well and you're forgiven.

Yeah like anything if youre going to do it, do it well.

Im just sick of this idea that hAlfpenny ios somehow neutered by a gameplan that only allows him to kick and that Wales would win everything if they stopped using chips and grubbers.

In reality they kicked less in total and percentage than England did.

[beshocked]

Really? I didn't think Cuthbert got the ball much at all.

[Seagultaf]

Who will be the first to call for a ban on quick tap penalties? Care poached the easiest of tries. Or was it simply that Wales were feeling the burn.

It was a cracking try i thought, quick thinking at it's best. The wales players should be embarassed, even at under 12 level you get coached NEVER to turn your back when giving away a penalty and how many of the welsh team did that? It was disgusting to see that such a basic element of defense in rugby being ignored so early in a game.

Warren Gatland, before the france game, said some players were playing for their future. Well i think it's safe to say that Dan Biggar should be considered Wales fly half for last game, the autumn internationals and then next years six nations. Priestland just isn't producing the goods and when you want to play a direct game with a kicking element, having a fly half who cannot implement the kicking side just negates the whole thing.

It also doesn't help that Priestland shies away from defensive work, there was one ruck in particular where England were attacking and he was first man there. Regardless of if it's a forward or a back, if you're the first at a ruck you get stuck in to either get a turnover or slow it down. He simply ran off. Then there was that knock on because he was watching the england players coming his way.

It's time for Biggar to be given the reigns and Priestland to be dropped from the squad.

There must be a good reason for 15 top professional rugby players to turn their backs on a player taking a quick penalty 5 yards from the try line. And only 5 mins into the match it was not that they were knackered.

Regarding Priestland and Biggar, Priestland was one of many Welsh players who had poor games behind a well beaten pack. But when Biggar came on the Welsh replacement forwards in particular James and Owen were getting some go forward, but Biggar's distribution was woeful and as a result Wales did not look like they could ever score. And lets be honest if Hook was any better, he would not be playing full back for his club side would he?

Saying that I would start Biggar (with Priestland on the bench) against Scotland as Halfpenny wont be playing and Biggar is the better goal kicker. Other changes, obviously Liam Williams for 1/2p, James for Jenkins, Owen (who looked very good when he came on) for Hibbard? Charteris (if fit) for Ball. And what about Gareth Davies to start at 9 if Webb is not fit?

[Breadvan]

Cuthbert didnt get any ball tbf, and when he did in a bit of space, made some good yards. Eng kicked well, Wales not so.

[gregortree]

Who will be the first to call for a ban on quick tap penalties? Care poached the easiest of tries. Or was it simply that Wales were feeling the burn.

At 4 minutes in ? Not burning, just snoozing. Keep the tap law just as it is.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Who will be the first to call for a ban on quick tap penalties? Care poached the easiest of tries. Or was it simply that Wales were feeling the burn.

At 4 minutes in ? Not burning, just snoozing. Keep the tap law just as it is.

And hardly the first time he (or Youngs) have done this for England. Quick tap law is excellent for encouraging fast play and avoiding stoppages. Banning it would be a retrograde step.

[beshocked]

I was pretty disappointed with Nowell and May because they got lots of ball in space but didn't really make the most of the opportunities.

May seems to drift across the field too much.

[jelly]

There's a picture in The Times today that shows Care as he's taking the tap. AWJ looks like he is making an effort to get back but it right out of position. Adam Jones, on the other hand, is just walking back and looking across at Care without a, well, care in the world. I honestly think that the vast majority of the Welsh team just assumed that England would just take the 3 points and so were walking back under the posts. There were about 2 or 3 of them who reacted at all but were nowhere close to him. Clever by Care but absolutely shocking by Wales and symptomatic of their general first half performance.

[HammerofThunor]

There must be a good reason for 15 top professional rugby players to turn their backs on a player taking a quick penalty 5 yards from the try line. And only 5 mins into the match it was not that they were knackered.

Yep. There are many possible reasons. Arrogance (sorry, not English), carelessness (pun intended), laziness, naivety, stupidity, etc.

If you can provide any evidence whatsoever (in a world with ref mics and full coverage replays) that the ref indicated he wanted to speak to the players people would accept it. But since you haven't, and others HAVE looked and can't find it, we can only assume you made it up, either subconsciously to explain appalling work by the Welsh players or deliberately because you're a WUM (I'm sure it's the former).

[HammerofThunor]

Neither May or Nowell have done enough to cement their places but did ok. Just more options in that area. Would have liked Sharples to have been given a go over May personally but I don't watch many Gloucester games.

[SecretFly]

May seems to drift across the field too much.

Trying to find a door that doesn't need a key? You can't blame him. Contact dampens down the ability to find any doors at all the more you're hit throughout a game. Avoid trouble, find gaps, stay fresh. Or.......... pick a lock.

[TrailApe]

Clever by Care but absolutely shocking by Wales

What was really clever was the way he disguised it - he didn't scream up, wrestle the ball off whover had it and then go off like a whippet with a rocket up his bum, he got the ball, jogged over to the spot tapped THEN whent off like sho1te off a shovel.

Quite disciplined.

.

[Scrumpy]

It always impresses me the speed at how these things are done!   

http://store.rfu.com/stores/rfu/products/product_details.aspx?pid=151069

I guess some poor soul was up all night designing, printing, advertising, photos for website etc etc..  for this t-shirt!

[Breadvan]

RFU scraping the barrell a tad with those I think...

[beshocked]

Scrumpy I think this would have been done quite a bit in advance. It's just this time - information did not get leaked unlike the Nike advert of 2011.  

[Scrumpy]

RFU scraping the barrell a tad with those I think...

A bit like when the WRU did it last season then!  

I'm not a fan of it I have to admitt    but if it keeps a few kids happy then why not?

[lostinwales]

This thread feels a bit like when one side has formed the maul and is ready to go, and the other side have just stood off avoiding contact

[Sponsored content]