England vs Wales Match day thread

[maestegmafia]

First topic message reminder :

SIX NATIONS: ENGLAND V WALES
Venue: Twickenham Date: Sunday, 9 March Kick-off: 15:00 GMT
Coverage: Watch live on BBC One, BBC One HD, listen on BBC Radio 5 Live

England

15-Mike Brown, 14-Jack Nowell, 13-Luther Burrell, 12-Billy Twelvetrees, 11-Jonny May, 10-Owen Farrell, 9-Danny Care

1-Joe Marler, 2-Dylan Hartley, 3-David Wilson, 4-Joe Launchbury, 5-Courtney Lawes, 6-Tom Wood, 7-Chris Robshaw (captain), 8-Ben Morgan

Replacements: 16-Tom Youngs, 17-Mako Vunipola, 18-Henry Thomas, 19-Dave Attwood, 20-Tom Johnson, 21-Lee Dickson, 22-George Ford, 23-Alex Goode


Wales

15-Leigh Halfpenny, 14-Alex Cuthbert, 13-Jonathan Davies, 12-Jamie Roberts, 11-George North, 10-Rhys Priestland, 9-Rhys Webb

1-Gethin Jenkins, 2-Richard Hibbard, 3-Adam Jones, 4-Jake Ball, 5-Alun Wyn Jones, 6-Dan Lydiate, 7-Sam Warburton (capt), 8-Taulupe Faletau

Replacements: Ken Owens, Paul James, Rhodri Jones, Andrew Coombs, Justin Tipuric, Mike Phillips, Dan Biggar, Liam Williams
MATCH OFFICIALS

Referee : Romain Poite (Fra)

Touch judges : Steve Walsh (Aus) & Lourens van der Merwe (RSA)
TV Official : Simon McDowell (Ire)


Next up for Wales is a trip to London and after all the banter coming out of the England camp it is time to finish the hype this match has been building and play some rugby. Have England improved on last year? Will home advantage be enough? Has Wales over come a trough and reached another high?

With plenty of injuries to key players, in fact some of England's very best players are out of this game, a convincing win for England over Wales will give the nation huge confidence going forward, maybe even a shot at the championship next weekend.

The build up seems to have been all about England, Wales are a known entity, twice champions in recent years with pretty much the same team they field tomorrow, little change to their game plan or style gives very little to discuss.

On the many various threads the situation is similar, all about England, with very little admiration of this perceivably over-rated Welsh team that have failed to beat a Southern Hemisphere top three team since 2008, the mark of all great sides.

In all honesty a tough and challenging end to the Six Nations will do this Welsh set up some good, possibly more good than the confidence a third consecutive championship would give them. Wales have little to lose and less to prove, a defeat in the manner of last years game would be vastly more detrimental to their hosts.

I hope all the fans enjoy the game, I am sure it will be the usual roller coaster of emotion for both Nations.

[majesticimperialman]

Is this the time we say Ohhhhhhh how the mighty have fallen? "WALES" gone from 6ns champions, too Fourth place will it be?

The only reason why i am saying this is that i can remember when England won the Rugby World Cup in 2003. Then a lot of players retired and the went down hill pretty fast from then on. All the call's from champs, to chumps.

By the way with Halfpenny being ruled out for the season, who will take the long rang bazooker kicks now?

[quinsforever]

55:10 on the match clock. Ball was NOT above faletau's head.

[LondonTiger]

indeed. what you miss scratch is that it was a PASS (not kick or lineout) intended for him that he had to stretch for (not jump) and he chose to jump.

if your simplistic interpretation were correct then every 12 and 13 would jump into the air while receiving the first pass and win an immediate penalty.

Until you read the law book and attend referee training I will not bother discussing this with you any more. You have made your mind up and facts seem irrelevant to you. The laws do not offer any distinction as to why the ball is in the air. I have seen this situation in several referee seminars discussed. the advice is always that this is a penalty.

[Scrumpy]

to England?

[quinsforever]

of course i have made my mind up.

go watch the replay. 55:10. he clearly, 100%, jumped into the tackle. the ball was NOT above his head. he was not contesting the ball, he was running onto it in a planned lineout move.

suggest you re-confer with your referee pals and figure out whether he gained an unfair advantage by leaping into the air as he received the ball (penalty to england) or whether hartley unfairly took advantage of him being airborne to make the tackle (penalty wales).

[LondonTiger]

55:10 on the match clock. Ball was NOT above faletau's head.

I have viewed this numerous times on iPlayer. The ball is above his head when he catches it.

http://www.specsavers.co.uk/stores/twickenham

[LondonTiger]

to England?

no a man who left the ground without the ball, and caught it while in the air has been tackled. Penalty against the tackler. If the man has possession then leaves the ground, penalty against ball carrier.

[quinsforever]

indeed. what you miss scratch is that it was a PASS (not kick or lineout) intended for him that he had to stretch for (not jump) and he chose to jump.

if your simplistic interpretation were correct then every 12 and 13 would jump into the air while receiving the first pass and win an immediate penalty.

Until you read the law book and attend referee training I will not bother discussing this with you any more. You have made your mind up and facts seem irrelevant to you. The laws do not offer any distinction as to why the ball is in the air. I have seen this situation in several referee seminars discussed. the advice is always that this is a penalty.

but they DO offer a distinction as to whether jumping was necessary in order to catch the ball. if not necessary it must must be a penalty to england. otherwise there is exactly zero difference than him catching the ball around his knees or shoulders. the rule is to protect airborne players who are airborne in order to make a clean, safe catch, not a means of allowing pass-receivers to avoid a tackle.

[Scrumpy]

Hartley was already commited when Toby went to air.

imo it should have been play on.

[Guest]

Is this the time we say Ohhhhhhh how the mighty have fallen? "WALES" gone from 6ns champions, too Fourth place will it be?

The only reason why i am saying this is that i can remember when England won the Rugby World Cup in 2003. Then a lot of players retired and the went down hill pretty fast from then on. All the call's from champs, to chumps.

By the way with Halfpenny being ruled out for the season, who will take the long rang bazooker kicks now?

You drag up what people apparently said over ten years ago? Oh dear.

[Guest]

Hartley was already commited

Ditto for Liam Williams near the end

[TopHat24/7]

Very very fine margins....

If Faleteau and Lydiate had walked backwards from the first pen, rather than the schoolboy error of turning round, Care would not have run in test pen for a try.

If North had passed to Lydiate, rather than  kick behind the line, Lydiate would have been over in the corner.

If Jamie hadn't kicked to far, there was another chance.

Plus so so many silly handling errors....

There really wasn't that much difference in the teams, but England made more of their chances.

Well played England, you won that Triple Crown fair and square.... Look after it for us, we'll have it back next year. ;-)

And if France hadn't got a lucky bounce, twice, England would be picking up the Grand Slam next weekend.

And re this weekend's game, I think the score reflected, even underplayed, England's dominance. They bettered Wales in pretty much every department and the fact that Hartley was Wales' best/most dangerous player says it all really.

Just sounds like sour grapes to me.

[TopHat24/7]

That said I thought Hartley should have seen yellow for the tackle on Faletau (I think it was?) and that might have given them a chance to mount a come back. Wales were very poor though - both half backs had shockers.

Why?   

Toby jumped into the tackle, should have been a penalty to England.

Totally agree.

Just watching a replay now and nothing was done about North tackling Nowell in the air and dropping him into touch, Wales were given the bloody line-out!

[Guest]

Dropping him into touch?

[Scratch]

of course i have made my mind up.

go watch the replay. 55:10. he clearly, 100%, jumped into the tackle. the ball was NOT above his head. he was not contesting the ball, he was running onto it in a planned lineout move.

suggest you re-confer with your referee pals and figure out whether he gained an unfair advantage by leaping into the air as he received the ball (penalty to england) or whether hartley unfairly took advantage of him being airborne to make the tackle (penalty wales).

just did

and talking of simplistic assessment quins, saying he did not have to jump is the biggest one

the ball is coming off the top, it is popped up in the air, if he hadn't jumped with outstrecthed arms, it would have gone over his head

He jumps for the ball and is tackled with his feet off the ground.

Poite was there, he saw it

You are wrong.

[quinsforever]

you want to know what's even worse? faletau doesnt leave the ground until after his fingertips touch the ball!!!! he jumps after catching the ball!!!!!!

seriously watch the video.

that's why when he is airborne the ball is below his head, because he catches it with his left foot still on the ground so when he jumps, his head is higher than the ball.

shocking decision.

look at faletau's expression too - he clearly knows he bought that one.

[LondonTiger]

" />


At this point he is off the ground, his hands are on the ball and it quite clearly is above his head. This later part is irrelevant to the law btw.

[No9]

Very very fine margins....

If Faleteau and Lydiate had walked backwards from the first pen, rather than the schoolboy error of turning round, Care would not have run in test pen for a try.

If North had passed to Lydiate, rather than  kick behind the line, Lydiate would have been over in the corner.

If Jamie hadn't kicked to far, there was another chance.

Plus so so many silly handling errors....

There really wasn't that much difference in the teams, but England made more of their chances.

Well played England, you won that Triple Crown fair and square.... Look after it for us, we'll have it back next year. ;-)

Don't think you can say that the North-Lydiate chance would have been a definite try. At the time Farrell was coming over to cover Lydiate and might well have stopped him. One of the commentators I think the high pitched whiny Jonathan Davies pointed it out.

Will reserve judgement there, as haven't seen it on the TV yet, going from memory at the game... From what I remember if Lydiate had taken that a sprint and dive at the line and there was no way Farrell was going to stop Dan... But when I get to watch the recording or highlights I may change my mind...

But I still reckon it was closer than the score suggests...

Whereas I reckon only Halfpenny's magic boot gave Wales a semblance of respectability...we're not heading towards Welsh moral victory territory are we? I mean if you discount Gatland's game plan, Priestland, unaccountably poor kicking, fluffed chances and bad reffing, Wales might have won that... 

Cowsh!t, stop fishing... I never said that, never implied it.. I've underlined what I said, so by all means, gloat, boast, build up England to be the best side in the world if you want, but don't make false statements to try and get a bite.... Same goes for Scrumpy, you guys are really doing injustice to the genuine fan (English or other nation)...

[quinsforever]

of course i have made my mind up.

go watch the replay. 55:10. he clearly, 100%, jumped into the tackle. the ball was NOT above his head. he was not contesting the ball, he was running onto it in a planned lineout move.

suggest you re-confer with your referee pals and figure out whether he gained an unfair advantage by leaping into the air as he received the ball (penalty to england) or whether hartley unfairly took advantage of him being airborne to make the tackle (penalty wales).

just did

and talking of simplistic assessment quins, saying he did not have to jump is the biggest one

the ball is coming off the top, it is popped up in the air, if he hadn't jumped with outstrecthed arms, it would have gone over his head

He jumps for the ball and is tackled with his feet off the ground.

Poite was there, he saw it

You are wrong.

he caught it with outstretched arms while his left foot was on the ground, then he jumped. clear as daylight. that's why he didnt need to jump. because he in fact didnt until after he had his fingers on the ball!!!!

you telling me i am wrong scratch, given your performance in the leadup to this match gives me great comfort

[quinsforever]

" />


At this point he is off the ground, his hands are on the ball and it quite clearly is above his head. This later part is irrelevant to the law btw.

try showing the bit where he first touches the ball and his left foot is still on the ground.

[Scratch]

of course i have made my mind up.

go watch the replay. 55:10. he clearly, 100%, jumped into the tackle. the ball was NOT above his head. he was not contesting the ball, he was running onto it in a planned lineout move.

suggest you re-confer with your referee pals and figure out whether he gained an unfair advantage by leaping into the air as he received the ball (penalty to england) or whether hartley unfairly took advantage of him being airborne to make the tackle (penalty wales).

just did

and talking of simplistic assessment quins, saying he did not have to jump is the biggest one

the ball is coming off the top, it is popped up in the air, if he hadn't jumped with outstrecthed arms, it would have gone over his head

He jumps for the ball and is tackled with his feet off the ground.

Poite was there, he saw it

You are wrong.

he caught it with outstretched arms while his left foot was on the ground, then he jumped. clear as daylight. that's why he didnt need to jump. because he in fact didnt until after he had his fingers on the ball!!!!

you telling me i am wrong scratch, given your performance in the leadup to this match gives me great comfort

look quins, we'll have to agree to disagree and frankly i don't care where you get your comfort, right now you are embarassing yourself by behaving like a little yappy dog with a big bone he can't handle.

Open your eyes and put away your biased view

The ball is in the air, Faletau jumps to catch it and is tackled

A ref, 1 metre from that, with infinitely more knwoledge than you, called it a pen v Hartley

Get over it, and yourself.

[SecretFly]

Bizarre statement.

Bizarre statement because you feel slighted that an Irish person would say it isn't all about England.  Player of the Tournament isn't about how well English players play against the rest or about how the Rest play against England.  

Hasn't Huget virtually alone placed France in the position it is in now, still in contention for the Championship?  Did you or anyone mention him for Player of the Tournament?  Nope... Brown or Lawes or Lawes or Brown

If Huget ruins Ireland's hopes with some more fancy intercepts will you have him in your thoughts next week?  No, you'll have Brown or Lawes on your mind for some remarkable backpass or timed run against the Italians.

At least your fellow countryman, Cowshot, admitted bias might be an issue here when discussing all or any candidates.

The bizarre thing is that you think Player of the Tournament is designed on stats.  No it usually goes to a player that has defined the progress of his team through a Championship either by leadership, endeavour or simply scoring the most eye-catching tries.  The public get what the public want.  

You've already had your crack at France.  So that's Wales and Ireland under England's belts as their shout-about games.  Ireland have to meet France yet and it will see where any of its contenders are then in the shout-about-it-stakes.

[LondonTiger]

[quote="quinsforever"][quote="LondonTiger"]

but they DO offer a distinction as to whether jumping was necessary in order to catch the ball.

http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?law=10

Law 10.4 (e) A player must not tackle an opponent whose feet are off the ground.
Law 10.4 (i) Tackling the jumper in the air. A player must not tackle nor tap, push or pull the foot or feet of an opponent jumping for the ball in a lineout or in open play.


That is all they say. Have a read of the laws it can be enlightening.

[Cowshot]

Very very fine margins....

If Faleteau and Lydiate had walked backwards from the first pen, rather than the schoolboy error of turning round, Care would not have run in test pen for a try.

If North had passed to Lydiate, rather than  kick behind the line, Lydiate would have been over in the corner.

If Jamie hadn't kicked to far, there was another chance.

Plus so so many silly handling errors....

There really wasn't that much difference in the teams, but England made more of their chances.

Well played England, you won that Triple Crown fair and square.... Look after it for us, we'll have it back next year. ;-)

Don't think you can say that the North-Lydiate chance would have been a definite try. At the time Farrell was coming over to cover Lydiate and might well have stopped him. One of the commentators I think the high pitched whiny Jonathan Davies pointed it out.

Will reserve judgement there, as haven't seen it on the TV yet, going from memory at the game... From what I remember if Lydiate had taken that a sprint and dive at the line and there was no way Farrell was going to stop Dan... But when I get to watch the recording or highlights I may change my mind...

But I still reckon it was closer than the score suggests...

Whereas I reckon only Halfpenny's magic boot gave Wales a semblance of respectability...we're not heading towards Welsh moral victory territory are we? I mean if you discount Gatland's game plan, Priestland, unaccountably poor kicking, fluffed chances and bad reffing, Wales might have won that... 

Cowsh!t, stop fishing... I never said that, never implied it.. I've underlined what I said, so by all means, gloat, boast, build up England to be the best side in the world if you want, but don't make false statements to try and get a bite.... Same goes for Scrumpy, you guys are really doing injustice to the genuine fan (English or other nation)...

Assuming you are referring to me with that U12 style insult - I never said you said that. I asked if that is where the conversation was going. Seen it all before, most years if not every year Wales get beaten. It would be easier to resist if we hadn't had so much of the build up to the usual inevitable Welsh victory beforehand from so many (not all). But I was weak on this occasion and could not resist the temptation. I look out for predictions of inevitable Welsh victory now the way I look out for the first cuckoo: Both say, the weather is getting better and Spring is on its way. Neither say much about Rugby.

[quinsforever]

much of the time, being 1m away is a hindrance rather than a help.

unless you think the advent of TMOs is a step backwards given that their most frequent use is verifying tries in corners where the touch judge is 1m away?

of course the ball is in the air. it is always in the air when a pass is cleanly taken. but that has nothing to do with whether he jumped into the tackle or not.

did i read you telling me to put away a biased view? LOL.   

[No9]

Very very fine margins....

If Faleteau and Lydiate had walked backwards from the first pen, rather than the schoolboy error of turning round, Care would not have run in test pen for a try.

If North had passed to Lydiate, rather than  kick behind the line, Lydiate would have been over in the corner.

If Jamie hadn't kicked to far, there was another chance.

Plus so so many silly handling errors....

There really wasn't that much difference in the teams, but England made more of their chances.

Well played England, you won that Triple Crown fair and square.... Look after it for us, we'll have it back next year. ;-)

And if France hadn't got a lucky bounce, twice, England would be picking up the Grand Slam next weekend.

And re this weekend's game, I think the score reflected, even underplayed, England's dominance.  They bettered Wales in pretty much every department and the fact that Hartley was Wales' best/most dangerous player says it all really.

Just sounds like sour grapes to me.

Schools out for the day then....   

1. France reference has no relevance to my comments at all
2. Was England dominant... They won, so yes they where the best side, no argument. Dominance, in defence maybe as we failed to get over the line. Other facets of the game, will have to check stats, but from my viewpoint at the game, it was fairly even.
3. Hartley Wales' best player... I guess this is tongue in cheek, but I wont rule out the fact you haven't a clue and just a fair weather fan on you to gloat.
4. Refer to my underlined comment... No sour grapes. England won fair and square.. Ok the "look after the triple crown" comment is a joke, a bit of banter, which genuine rugby fans will recognise... Sour grapes, nope....

[Barney McGrew did it]

Very very fine margins....

If Faleteau and Lydiate had walked backwards from the first pen, rather than the schoolboy error of turning round, Care would not have run in test pen for a try.

If North had passed to Lydiate, rather than  kick behind the line, Lydiate would have been over in the corner.

If Jamie hadn't kicked to far, there was another chance.

Plus so so many silly handling errors....

There really wasn't that much difference in the teams, but England made more of their chances.

Well played England, you won that Triple Crown fair and square.... Look after it for us, we'll have it back next year. ;-)

Absolutely not true. I was kinda surprised myself, but England completely controlled that game and were never going to lose it. The score-line flattered Wales a bit, but you can't argue with 1/2p's goal-kicking. And I'm afraid the latter was the only thing of any note from a Wales POV.

[quinsforever]

but they DO offer a distinction as to whether jumping was necessary in order to catch the ball.

http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?law=10

Law 10.4 (e) A player must not tackle an opponent whose feet are off the ground.
Law 10.4 (i) Tackling the jumper in the air. A player must not tackle nor tap, push or pull the foot or feet of an opponent jumping for the ball in a lineout or in open play.


That is all they say. Have a read of the laws it can be enlightening.

ah, selective quoting. love it.

you do know it's not possible to RUN without having your feet off the ground?

so tackling a running player is against law 10.4?

and someone with the ball in hand jumping into a tackle is suddenly legal?

that's genuinely funny. if you're going to quote the laws, in the interests of balance pick the relevant ones please.

[Scratch]

much of the time, being 1m away is a hindrance rather than a help.

unless you think the advent of TMOs is a step backwards given that their most frequent use is verifying tries in corners where the touch judge is 1m away?

of course the ball is in the air. it is always in the air when a pass is cleanly taken. but that has nothing to do with whether he jumped into the tackle or not.

did i read you telling me to put away a biased view? LOL.   

yep cos right now you are making yourself look a fool being so one eyed about a 50/50 ref decision.

become a ref, you clearly HAVE to be right and everyone else MUST agree

Enjoy your win, it's amazing how rabid some fans become when they win one solitary game against us.   

[lostinwales]

Very very fine margins....

If Faleteau and Lydiate had walked backwards from the first pen, rather than the schoolboy error of turning round, Care would not have run in test pen for a try.

If North had passed to Lydiate, rather than  kick behind the line, Lydiate would have been over in the corner.

If Jamie hadn't kicked to far, there was another chance.

Plus so so many silly handling errors....

There really wasn't that much difference in the teams, but England made more of their chances.

Well played England, you won that Triple Crown fair and square.... Look after it for us, we'll have it back next year. ;-)

Absolutely not true. I was kinda surprised myself, but England completely controlled that game and were never going to lose it. The score-line flattered Wales a bit, but you can't argue with 1/2p's goal-kicking. And I'm afraid the latter was the only thing of any note from a Wales POV.

The Lydiate thing- When you realise it was him on North's shoulder then maybe his decision to kick wasnt so crazy  

[LondonTiger]

" />


At this point he is off the ground, his hands are on the ball and it quite clearly is above his head. This later part is irrelevant to the law btw.

try showing the bit where he first touches the ball and his left foot is still on the ground.

that is the frame when he first touches the ball, the frame before he it is not in his hands. The frame before he is off the ground and not quite touching it. I am now struggling to stop it at the exact frame - but this is the point he starts to leave the ground.

" />

Wish I could get the frame I had before that shows him off the ground before the ball arrives. Blame my arthritic fingers

[quinsforever]

http://www.rugbydump.com/2012/10/2785/friday-funnies-sione-kalamafoni-penalised-for-hurdling-a-tackler

not everything is explicitly covered in irb laws which are not exhaustive.

[LondonTiger]

but they DO offer a distinction as to whether jumping was necessary in order to catch the ball.

http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?law=10

Law 10.4 (e) A player must not tackle an opponent whose feet are off the ground.
Law 10.4 (i) Tackling the jumper in the air. A player must not tackle nor tap, push or pull the foot or feet of an opponent jumping for the ball in a lineout or in open play.


That is all they say. Have a read of the laws it can be enlightening.

ah, selective quoting. love it.

you do know it's not possible to RUN without having your feet off the ground?

so tackling a running player is against law 10.4?

and someone with the ball in hand jumping into a tackle is suddenly legal?

that's genuinely funny. if you're going to quote the laws, in the interests of balance pick the relevant ones please.

You do realise I have quoted the actual laws. not selected bits that is all they say. Go read them - assuming you have that ability.


Now if you were moaning that a penalty was not given when May was taken out in the air - I would agree with you. In this you are wrong.

[quinsforever]

much of the time, being 1m away is a hindrance rather than a help.

unless you think the advent of TMOs is a step backwards given that their most frequent use is verifying tries in corners where the touch judge is 1m away?

of course the ball is in the air. it is always in the air when a pass is cleanly taken. but that has nothing to do with whether he jumped into the tackle or not.

did i read you telling me to put away a biased view? LOL.   

yep cos right now you are making yourself look a fool being so one eyed about a 50/50 ref decision.

become a ref, you clearly HAVE to be right and everyone else MUST agree

Enjoy your win, it's amazing how rabid some fans become when they win one solitary game against us.   

i couldnt care less about beating wales. not a benchmark of likely rwc2015 success at all.

so now you admit it's a 50/50 decision? that's better. i agree with that. and having been on the receiving end of someone jumping into me in the tackle and splitting my lip with their knee, i know why i would give a penalty against Faletau. check out his expression afterwards. and look at how he tucks his legs under him without much real height.

poite was conned. fair enough. happens all the time. but doesnt mean it's right. in particular, the ramifications of him being right are potentially very bad if matches swing on players fake-jumping onto passes to win penalties.

[quinsforever]

Law 10.4 covers Dangerous Play, with section (k) covering "Acts contrary to good sportsmanship."

It states that a player must not do anything against the spirit of good sportsmanship. So while jumping into a tackle isn't categorically covered, it is down to the referee's interpretation of what is seen to be dangerous, and he is entitled to penalise it if he feels player safety was compromised.

[TopHat24/7]

Very very fine margins....

If Faleteau and Lydiate had walked backwards from the first pen, rather than the schoolboy error of turning round, Care would not have run in test pen for a try.

If North had passed to Lydiate, rather than  kick behind the line, Lydiate would have been over in the corner.

If Jamie hadn't kicked to far, there was another chance.

Plus so so many silly handling errors....

There really wasn't that much difference in the teams, but England made more of their chances.

Well played England, you won that Triple Crown fair and square.... Look after it for us, we'll have it back next year. ;-)

And if France hadn't got a lucky bounce, twice, England would be picking up the Grand Slam next weekend.

And re this weekend's game, I think the score reflected, even underplayed, England's dominance.  They bettered Wales in pretty much every department and the fact that Hartley was Wales' best/most dangerous player says it all really.

Just sounds like sour grapes to me.

Schools out for the day then....   

1. France reference has no relevance to my comments at all
2. Was England dominant... They won, so yes they where the best side, no argument. Dominance, in defence maybe as we failed to get over the line. Other facets of the game, will have to check stats, but from my viewpoint at the game, it was fairly even.
3. Hartley Wales' best player... I guess this is tongue in cheek, but I wont rule out the fact you haven't a clue and just a fair weather fan on you to gloat.
4. Refer to my underlined comment... No sour grapes. England won fair and square.. Ok the "look after the triple crown" comment is a joke, a bit of banter, which genuine rugby fans will recognise... Sour grapes, nope....

And you're suggesting I'm the school thickie? Maybe get your grammar right before chucking around those kind of comments.

The France comment was because your post was a series of irrelevant ifs buts and maybes, so I just chucked in another one for good measure.

The Hartley comment was indeed tongue in cheek, however he did seem to create more point scoring opportunities for you than any Welshman I can think of.

[quinsforever]

but they DO offer a distinction as to whether jumping was necessary in order to catch the ball.

http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?law=10

Law 10.4 (e) A player must not tackle an opponent whose feet are off the ground.
Law 10.4 (i) Tackling the jumper in the air. A player must not tackle nor tap, push or pull the foot or feet of an opponent jumping for the ball in a lineout or in open play.


That is all they say. Have a read of the laws it can be enlightening.

ah, selective quoting. love it.

you do know it's not possible to RUN without having your feet off the ground?

so tackling a running player is against law 10.4?

and someone with the ball in hand jumping into a tackle is suddenly legal?

that's genuinely funny. if you're going to quote the laws, in the interests of balance pick the relevant ones please.

You do realise I have quoted the actual laws. not selected bits that is all they say. Go read them - assuming you have that ability.


Now if you were moaning that a penalty was not given when May was taken out in the air - I would agree with you.  In this you are wrong.

i think it was nowell actually, but yes i agree.

the reason faletau ironically won a penalty is because by jumping and tucking his knees as he did he put both himself and hartley in danger. and that is preciesely the reason i would have given it against him. Poite was too close to the action to see it that way.

while North tackles nowell in the air with the ball, he actually managed to do so very safely! and didnt tip nowell over which is why it wasnt obvious to poite who was behind them both.

[Scratch]

much of the time, being 1m away is a hindrance rather than a help.

unless you think the advent of TMOs is a step backwards given that their most frequent use is verifying tries in corners where the touch judge is 1m away?

of course the ball is in the air. it is always in the air when a pass is cleanly taken. but that has nothing to do with whether he jumped into the tackle or not.

did i read you telling me to put away a biased view? LOL.   

yep cos right now you are making yourself look a fool being so one eyed about a 50/50 ref decision.

become a ref, you clearly HAVE to be right and everyone else MUST agree

Enjoy your win, it's amazing how rabid some fans become when they win one solitary game against us.   

i couldnt care less about beating wales. not a benchmark of likely rwc2015 success at all.

so now you admit it's a 50/50 decision? that's better. i agree with that. and having been on the receiving end of someone jumping into me in the tackle and splitting my lip with their knee, i know why i would give a penalty against Faletau. check out his expression afterwards. and look at how he tucks his legs under him without much real height.

poite was conned. fair enough. happens all the time. but doesnt mean it's right. in particular, the ramifications of him being right are potentially very bad if matches swing on players fake-jumping onto passes to win penalties.

Pathetic quins, really pathetic. I didn't say poite was conned, my reference to it being 50/50 is that for every 'fan' who agrees the ref made the right decision, there will be a one eyed chump who knows the ref was wrong, know what i mean?

Enjoy your little victory   

[quinsforever]

"my reference to it being 50/50 is that for every 'fan' who agrees the ref made the right decision, there will be a one eyed chump who knows the ref was wrong, know what i mean?"

LOL. 50/50 implies an awful lot of one eyed chumps.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Bizarre statement.

Bizarre statement because you feel slighted that an Irish person would say it isn't all about England.  Player of the Tournament isn't about how well English players play against the rest or about how the Rest play against England.  

Hasn't Huget virtually alone placed France in the position it is in now, still in contention for the Championship?  Did you or anyone mention him for Player of the Tournament?  Nope... Brown or Lawes or Lawes or Brown

If Huget ruins Ireland's hopes with some more fancy intercepts will you have him in your thoughts next week?  No, you'll have Brown or Lawes on your mind for some remarkable backpass or timed run against the Italians.

At least your fellow countryman, Cowshot, admitted bias might be an issue here when discussing all or any candidates.

The bizarre thing is that you think Player of the Tournament is designed on stats.  No it usually goes to a player that has defined the progress of his team through a Championship either by leadership, endeavour or simply scoring the most eye-catching tries.  The public get what the public want.  

You've already had your crack at France.  So that's Wales and Ireland under England's belts as their shout-about games.  Ireland have to meet France yet and it will see where any of its contenders are then in the shout-about-it-stakes.

1. At what point have I mentioned stats?
2. At what point do I suggest it's all about England

All I've said is POM was poor against England and shouldn't be anywhere near player of 6N. If Brown had played badly against Wales I'd be saying exactly the same.

It's player of the 6N, not player of 3 games and have 1 bad one.

Bizarre.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Scratch, how's your theory of England being unable to score against the mighty Wales looking?

[SecretFly]

It's player of the 6N, not player of 3 games and have 1 bad one.

Bizarre.

It's player of the 6N. Correct. In my mind there are still three games to be played. I'm the only one talking about let's wait and see what happens in those games. You seem to have your choice made already. Whoever he is, he's definitely English

Not Bizarre but certainly a sniff of homely bias

[Scratch]

Scratch, how's your theory of England being unable to score against the mighty Wales looking?

You guys are pathetic....my first post after the game was a congratulations and glowing indictment of england and harsh criticism of wales

but reading through this thread it is clear that all you so called fans want is a piece of wales posters after the victory

it's like watching pigs wallow in shoite

wow, pooly you scored two tries caused by welsh errors, thats 2 in 4 games, you beat us, that's once in 4 games.

my theory about you Pooly remains the same

England, congratulations, you actually won a trophy, your 2nd in 11 years.   

Your win rate v Wales since 2011 is 25%. Lets see how you do next year in Cardiff. Take everything from this rare win, you have to because you beat the double champions.

The championship belongs to ireland and i now sincerely hope they take it leaving england where they belong, 'consistent' losers in the 6 nations in 2nd place.

[quinsforever]

 

[Sgt_Pooly]

Scratch, how's your theory of England being unable to score against the mighty Wales looking?

You guys are pathetic....my first post after the game was a congratulations and glowing indictment of england and harsh criticism of wales

but reading through this thread it is clear that all you so called fans want is a piece of wales posters after the victory

it's like watching pigs wallow in shoite

wow, pooly you scored two tries caused by welsh errors, thats 2 in 4 games, you beat us, that's once in 4 games.

my theory about you Pooly remains the same

England, congratulations, you actually won a trophy, your 2nd in 11 years.   

Your win rate v Wales since 2011 is 25%. Lets see how you do next year in Cardiff. Take everything from this rare win,  you have to because you beat the double champions.

The championship belongs to ireland and i now sincerely hope they take it leaving england where they belong, 'consistent' losers in the 6 nations in 2nd place.

Hilarious read.

Only you could write that much bile after your team was battered.

[quinsforever]

It's player of the 6N, not player of 3 games and have 1 bad one.

Bizarre.

It's player of the 6N.  Correct.  In my mind there are still three games to be played.  I'm the only one talking about let's wait and see what happens in those games.  You seem to have your choice made already.  Whoever he is, he's definitely English

Not Bizarre but certainly a sniff of homely bias

if Ireland win next weekend, my vote would be for BOD to get it. if ireland lose and england beat italy, i think it has to be Brown. POM was just a shade too absent in the match ireland lost for me.

will be genuinely pleased for Ireland if they win. and BOD.

[Sgt_Pooly]

It's player of the 6N, not player of 3 games and have 1 bad one.

Bizarre.

It's player of the 6N.  Correct.  In my mind there are still three games to be played.  I'm the only one talking about let's wait and see what happens in those games.  You seem to have your choice made already.  Whoever he is, he's definitely English

Not Bizarre but certainly a sniff of homely bias

Secretfly, I respect your opinion, I understand you're not a wum unlike others.

I've not suggested the player of the 6N should only be English, you're putting words in my mouth. I'm only stating it shouldn't be POM as I think you need to be at a consistent level and he hasn't been.

At the minute I think Brown is ahead, he's been consistently outstanding. There is of course one game left though.

[nathan]

much of the time, being 1m away is a hindrance rather than a help.

unless you think the advent of TMOs is a step backwards given that their most frequent use is verifying tries in corners where the touch judge is 1m away?

of course the ball is in the air. it is always in the air when a pass is cleanly taken. but that has nothing to do with whether he jumped into the tackle or not.

did i read you telling me to put away a biased view? LOL.   

yep cos right now you are making yourself look a fool being so one eyed about a 50/50 ref decision.

become a ref, you clearly HAVE to be right and everyone else MUST agree

Enjoy your win, it's amazing how rabid some fans become when they win one solitary game against us.   

have you completely forgotten how you behaved before the game, i read countless posts by you that just said   30 - 3.

[Chjw131]

Scratch and No9 please have a look below for a Welsh perspective on England's performance. You may find it illuminating.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03yc1wj/Scrum_V_Sunday_2013_2014_Six_Nations_Special/

[Sgt_Pooly]

Scratch isn't a proper rugby fan though Chjw. He just constantly looks to wind people up and spouts comments that I'd expect from somebody who just started watching the game would.

The general Welsh vibe on here is spot on, there's just a few bad eggs who give them a bad name.

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