Wales tour of SA

by The Saint Sat 15 Mar 2014, 8:54 pm

First topic message reminder :

Halfpenny is out and recent news (unknown to me) is stating that Warburton will now also miss out due to a dislocated shoulder. It doesn't look good for us going to SA without these two and with our recent away form being so bad. Personally I think it would be a good idea if we had a midweek game before the first test against a SA Provincial team, using the majority of our first team.

Who would you like to see on the plane?

by Scrumpy Mon 31 Mar 2014, 10:53 am

The Saint wrote:
Scrumpy wrote:I don't think the books need it to be honest.

Books? What we reading, 50 Shades of Gray?

Sometimes I really hate Ipads! thumbsup

I don't think the ~~books~~ Boks need it to be honest

by The Saint Mon 31 Mar 2014, 12:56 pm

I'm not so much a fan of Apple technology myself, too AmericaniZed.

by The Saint Mon 31 Mar 2014, 12:58 pm

quinsforever wrote:the scoreline is going to be embarrassing. Wales have so many injured or knackered players who they will choose not take, that i reckon 30 points per match points difference is a minimum. cr1p scrum and no 1/2P. honestly i think most welsh occasional rugby fans have no idea what they are in store for.

Saint, maybe you can set them straight?

If, no, what is you aggregate poinsts for and against prediction? Mine, is minus 90 over 3 matches. A mullering. No WRUbs, no 1/2P...

not a hater, just honest.

We only have 2 matches against the Boks, so a little more than -90.

by jimmyinthewell68 Tue 01 Apr 2014, 12:19 pm

i think we can all say this will be a two game whitewash for Wales but then again we have nothing to lose except the two games . blood a few New players into an experience squad. forget this world cup and start building for the next

by bedfordwelsh Tue 01 Apr 2014, 12:29 pm

So lets look at the possible side I think Gatland will pick, giving the fact that I think it will be our strongest side available:

Jenkins (I would pick James)
Owens
A Jones
AWJ
Charteris
Lydiate
Faletau
Tipuric

Phillips
Biggar

North
Roberts
JD
Cuthbert

Li Williams

James, E Phillips, Rh Jones (Should be Lee), Ball, R Jones Webb, Priestland, Hook

Now I am not saying that side will win but I don't think it will be a hammering that some have predicted.

by The Saint Tue 01 Apr 2014, 12:45 pm

Anyone know what's up with the new look SA shirt? April fools or an actual away kit?

by **Biltong** Tue 01 Apr 2014, 1:00 pm

Link?

by **Biltong** Tue 01 Apr 2014, 1:03 pm

video

by munkian Tue 01 Apr 2014, 2:05 pm

Poite is reffing SA v Wales. Many Sith Africans aren't happy with this

by **Biltong** Tue 01 Apr 2014, 2:10 pm

POite?

F.....hate him.

by Jimpy Tue 01 Apr 2014, 2:10 pm

munkian wrote:Poite is reffing SA v Wales. Many Sith Africans aren't happy with this

Are these the ones working for Lord Palpatine?

by munkian Tue 01 Apr 2014, 2:25 pm

Jimpy wrote:
munkian wrote:Poite is reffing SA v Wales. Many Sith Africans aren't happy with this

Are these the ones working for Lord Palpatine?

No, Darth McCall Shocked

by Scrumpy Tue 01 Apr 2014, 3:13 pm

Having watched the Cardiff/Ulster game at the weekend I can see why Jenkins gets selected as he was good in open play and wasn't getting blamed when the scrum was collapsing!!!!

Does make you wonder if the Rabo Refs watch the 6 Nations?

by Jhamer25 Tue 01 Apr 2014, 4:29 pm

Biltong wrote:POite?

F.....hate him.

Agreed, the man is a tool

The man can't referee a fair scrum to save his life. Ever since i watches his display refereeing a match in the final of the rabo with Ospreys and Leinster back in 2012. The man ruined the scrummaging battle and has been noticeable ever since. He will ruin what should be a good scrummaging battle against two good scrummaging sides.

by Scrumpy Tue 01 Apr 2014, 4:33 pm

He might have a good game?

You can't blame the Ref before the game has even been played!

by munkian Tue 01 Apr 2014, 4:34 pm

Oh the Irony...

by **Biltong** Tue 01 Apr 2014, 4:39 pm

Scrumpy wrote:He might have a good game?

You can't blame the Ref before the game has even been played!

When we were kids our parents would give us hidings when we were naughty.

There were two specific cliches I will always remember

"This is going to hurt me more than it is going to hurt you" which made them masochists.

"I am going to give you three lashing for what you did, and another three for what you are still going to do" it had little to do with blaming us, they just knew we would stuff up again. Erm

by Jhamer25 Tue 01 Apr 2014, 4:40 pm

Scrumpy wrote:He might have a good game?

You can't blame the Ref before the game has even been played!

I'm not blaming the ref for the game. It's his ability to referee a scrum which i don't like. He isn't a bad ref apart from that. But if you know me, i love a good scrummaging battle. He takes that away from a game which is why i'm not his biggest fan.

by Seagultaf Tue 01 Apr 2014, 6:00 pm

I see Richard Cotterill is promoting Owen Williams for the Wales SA tour this summer. He is certainly playing well for Leicester, but to be fair he was pretty ropey for the Scarlets at the end of last season and certainly no where near Priestland in quality. But if he has improved his game certainly worth a look. Is he a better option than Patchell or Hook as third choice 10 at the moment?

by The Saint Tue 01 Apr 2014, 7:12 pm

He probably is, considering Hook is flaky and Patchell should never have been capped.

by bedfordwelsh Tue 01 Apr 2014, 8:22 pm

Why isn't Tovey on most peoples lists of possible 10s for me he is ahead of Patchell by some distance.

by Guest Tue 01 Apr 2014, 8:54 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Why isn't Tovey on most peoples lists of possible 10s for me he is ahead of Patchell by some distance.

Patchell was the first choice flyhalf for the Blues when Tovey was there wasnt he?

by bedfordwelsh Tue 01 Apr 2014, 9:02 pm

IronMike wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Why isn't Tovey on most peoples lists of possible 10s for me he is ahead of Patchell by some distance.

Patchell was the first choice flyhalf for the Blues when Tovey was there wasnt he?

IM,

He was but talking to friend whose son has come through Welsh age grade and was in the Blues set up admittedly on a limited basis there was a bit of a clash between Tovey and Davies when Davies was coach of the U20s - thats what I have heard anyway.

I am not saying Tovey is the answer either but Patchell seems to blow very hot and cold then again Tovey seems to get injured fairly often through the season.

Maybe Owen Williams is the answer but I cant see Gatland looking beyond Biggar, Priestland and Hook as his options at the moment.

by The Saint Tue 01 Apr 2014, 9:03 pm

IronMike wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Why isn't Tovey on most peoples lists of possible 10s for me he is ahead of Patchell by some distance.

Patchell was the first choice flyhalf for the Blues when Tovey was there wasnt he?

He spent the majority of his year there injured. I don't get it, do Blues fans always change the goal posts because they're pro-Patchell? Or, did they just decide to stop watching rugby the year he was there?

by Guest Tue 01 Apr 2014, 10:41 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
IronMike wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Why isn't Tovey on most peoples lists of possible 10s for me he is ahead of Patchell by some distance.

Patchell was the first choice flyhalf for the Blues when Tovey was there wasnt he?

IM,

He was but talking to friend whose son has come through Welsh age grade and was in the Blues set up admittedly on a limited basis there was a bit of a clash between Tovey and Davies when Davies was coach of the U20s - thats what I have heard anyway.

I am not saying Tovey is the answer either but Patchell seems to blow very hot and cold then again Tovey seems to get injured fairly often through the season.

Maybe Owen Williams is the answer but I cant see Gatland looking beyond Biggar, Priestland and Hook as his options at the moment.

Patchell does suffer from inconsistency but isn't Tovey also inconsistent? I can't really recall him stringing together some memorable performances that merit a Welsh call up. Perhaps he just plays for the wrong region which he tried to remedy but failed to get going at the Blues.

by Jimpy Wed 02 Apr 2014, 8:32 am

Seagultaf wrote:I see Richard Cotterill is promoting Owen Williams for the Wales SA tour this summer. He is certainly playing well for Leicester, but to be fair he was pretty ropey for the Scarlets at the end of last season and certainly no where near Priestland in quality. But if he has improved his game certainly worth a look. Is he a better option than Patchell or Hook as third choice 10 at the moment?

I didn't know Tigers had a new head coach... Whistle

And seriously, if Preistland is your measure of quality at 10, you're in real trouble.

by Seagultaf Wed 02 Apr 2014, 9:06 am

Jimpy wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:I see Richard Cotterill is promoting Owen Williams for the Wales SA tour this summer. He is certainly playing well for Leicester, but to be fair he was pretty ropey for the Scarlets at the end of last season and certainly no where near Priestland in quality. But if he has improved his game certainly worth a look. Is he a better option than Patchell or Hook as third choice 10 at the moment?

I didn't know Tigers had a new head coach...

And seriously, if Preistland is your measure of quality at 10, you're in real trouble.

You know who I meant!

Also the only real top quality 10 in the 6N sides is Sexton, the remainder can be good poor or indifferent depending on the day and the opposition. Priestland, Biggar Farrell, Flood, Weir etc all are pretty much on a par and have good points and bad points but Sexton is a level above the rest. as Sexton is Irish then it is realistic to compare him to Wales best two 10s!

by **Biltong** Wed 02 Apr 2014, 9:40 am

Sport 24 wrote:Cape Town - The International Rugby Board (IRB) has defended its decision to allow controversial French referee, Romain Poite, to take charge of a Springbok Test later this year.

The Boks start their season with a match against a World XV on June 7 (venue to be confirmed but believed to be in Cape Town).

They then tackle Wales in consecutive Tests (Durban, June 14 and Nelspruit, June 21) before concluding the Incoming Series with a match against Scotland in Port Elizabeth on June 28.

The referees and officials for the June Test window were named on Tuesday with Poite scheduled to take charge of the June 14 Test at Kings Park. He will also be assistant referee for the Tests in Nelspruit and Port Elizabeth.

Poite was persona non grata in South Africa last year after he incorrectly gave Bok hooker Bismarck du Plessis a yellow card against the All Blacks in Auckland.

The IRB's head of referees, Joël Jutge, defended the decision, saying it's needed for Poite to referee another Springbok Test, especially with next year's World Cup in mind as it's almost certain their paths will cross again.

Jutge told the Beeld website that Poite had publicly admitted to making a mistake and was "punished" by not getting any top level Tests in November last year. The only Test awarded to the Frenchman was a match between Georgia and Samoa in Tbilisi in Eastern Europe.

"The South African rugby public is very passionate, but they know the game. They won't forget the mistake, but I'm of the opinion that he won't feel unwelcome in South Africa," said Jutge.

SARU CEO, Jurie Roux, said they expressed concern about the appointment, but respected the IRB's call.

"We accept the IRB's logical way of thinking. Romain, who is one of the top referees in the world, knows he made a big mistake.

"(But) we have to move on because he will take charge of another Springbok Test in the near future," said Roux.

In the Test at Eden Park in September last year, Poite showed Du Plessis a yellow card in the 16th minute for a perfectly legal tackle on All Black flyhalf Dan Carter.

He then showed Du Plessis a second yellow - and a subsequent red card - for leading with an elbow which connected with the throat of flank Liam Messam.

The Boks fought manfully for close on 50 minutes with only 14 players at their disposal, eventually going down 29-15.

The IRB afterwards released a statement saying Poite was wrong in his decision to give Du Plessis his first yellow card.

Not sure this is smart by the IRB/Joel Jutge, SA have had their fair share of bad luck with referees over the past few years in both the Rugby Championship and World Cup.

SO they aren't too forgiving when it happens to them.

Why bring Poite back to SA for his first match officiating the Boks?

Rather do a few outside the country where the crowd influence won't put as much pressure on him.

by munkian Wed 02 Apr 2014, 9:55 am

Devalued SA win then, he'll be playing to the crowd Wink

by **Biltong** Wed 02 Apr 2014, 10:37 am

munkian wrote:Devalued SA win then, he'll be playing to the crowd

Exactly, that could easily be the situation, trying to right a wrong with another wrong. My concern with a referee that has nailed a team on a previous occasion be it Bryce Lawrence, Poite, Barnes for New Zealand or like many feel Joubert for France.

How do you remedy a situation that has gone wrong in the past?

You screw a team out of a knock out match, a final, or a very important tournament match. Then the uproar comes, and we all know that uproar doesn't just die down.

Now you put that referee into a situation where he has to officiate in front of the home crowd that carries ill feelings towards him, the first thing he is going to experience is booing, and most likely a lot of it.

That immediately puts him on the back foot, chances that the visiting team is going to have a fair deal on the 50/50 calls is remote.

So now you perpetuating the problem.

Give the referee a few games against the team that he 'Offended" outside of their home country, let they play a few matches and he gets a chance to redeem himself without home pressures.

I sometimes wonder how these guys at IRB HQ think.

by munkian Wed 02 Apr 2014, 10:41 am

See we have Walsh reffing the last test - is he going to turn on Wales after he handed the game to us against England in 2013 ? Wink

by Scrumpy Wed 02 Apr 2014, 11:28 am

The problem with Walsh is that you know at some point in the game he'll want the TV cameras on him and no one else! Very Happy

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 02 Apr 2014, 11:52 am

The problem with the technology we have is that we have unrealistic lofty expectations of the refs. Let's face it, if a couple calls don't go your way, the ref had a shocker.

It's true that Poite didn't help himself when he pulled out the yellow ignoring the option of conferring with the video ref. You might dislike a ref for his scrum interpretation (throw a dart and you'll find a ref with that problem easily enough but Poite and Walsh are examples), his ruck interpretation (ditto but take Pollock or Joubert as examples), the offside line he keeps (Rollaind), his lack of communication (Walsh). The only one covering himself in any glory is Owens and perhaps we need to look at more why that is the case.

Transparency is the key for me. The ref needs to let the players know what he wants from them, which means open communication, and consistency in applying that. Watch a game of rugby live at full speed without the help of slow mo or camera angles and you realise what the ref is up against, particularly at the ruck and scrum. It's not a case of the ref seeing everything. That is impossible. It's a case of the ref letting the players and his adjutant officials everything he has seen and being consistent in that regard.

There's only a handful of refs at the elite level. If you start holding them back for risk of potential favouritism / antagonism you might as well whittle the list down to Nigel Owens and we'd pretty soon see him put in a performance that brought out his detractors.

If you have a ref you don't like, deal with it. If your team is going on the park and is certain to infringe, then go in with the mindset that the ref at some stage is going to rule against you unjustly at some stage as well. It's a fact of life that is harsh but true.

by **Biltong** Wed 02 Apr 2014, 12:23 pm

I suppose that is why Heyneke Meyer has the philosophy that the Boks must factor 9 points for referee error when they run on the park.

by Welly Wed 02 Apr 2014, 12:32 pm

Seagultaf wrote:I see Richard Cotterill is promoting Owen Williams for the Wales SA tour this summer. He is certainly playing well for Leicester, but to be fair he was pretty ropey for the Scarlets at the end of last season and certainly no where near Priestland in quality. But if he has improved his game certainly worth a look. Is he a better option than Patchell or Hook as third choice 10 at the moment?

Suppose how well he plays against Clermont this weekend will be the marker, he was cool under huge pressure in the East midlands derby at Saints who are 2nd in the league and it is a tense game, cant remember the last one that didn't have cards in it.

I don't know to much about Patchell in terms of how big the games are where he has shined.

Reckon Hook should be 3rd choice (should be higher) but Gatland isn't exactly his biggest fan.

by Jimpy Wed 02 Apr 2014, 1:44 pm

Seagultaf wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:I see Richard Cotterill is promoting Owen Williams for the Wales SA tour this summer. He is certainly playing well for Leicester, but to be fair he was pretty ropey for the Scarlets at the end of last season and certainly no where near Priestland in quality. But if he has improved his game certainly worth a look. Is he a better option than Patchell or Hook as third choice 10 at the moment?

I didn't know Tigers had a new head coach...

And seriously, if Preistland is your measure of quality at 10, you're in real trouble.

You know who I meant!

Also the only real top quality 10 in the 6N sides is Sexton, the remainder can be good poor or indifferent depending on the day and the opposition. Priestland, Biggar Farrell, Flood, Weir etc all are pretty much on a par and have good points and bad points but Sexton is a level above the rest. as Sexton is Irish then it is realistic to compare him to Wales best two 10s!

You're drunk aren't you?

Priestland was a liability for Wales, Biggar and Farrell are miles ahead of him, Flood didn't play so you can't possibly compare his form to Priestland's and even Weir had his moments. Priestland is bottom of the pile and I doubt many (even Welsh) would disagree.

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 02 Apr 2014, 2:15 pm

Biltong wrote:I suppose that is why Heyneke Meyer has the philosophy that the Boks must factor 9 points for referee error when they run on the park.

That's about right Biltong. If you want to be in control of your destiny, being in a game with that mentality or having it at least at the back of your mind is a good idea because after the game it's too late to do anything about it. I like Meyer's (and Hansen's now) approach to refs. Once you start laying the blame at the feet of others, you lose sight of what your own team could've done to avoid defeat. The way Meyer and his captain conducted themselves last year was exemplary and as far removed from the black armbands as you could get.

by Jhamer25 Wed 02 Apr 2014, 4:56 pm

Great now Rhys webb is a doubt. We won't be able to do this possible vs probables at this rate. We won't have enough for two teams with replacements (with any quality that is)

by majesticimperialman Wed 02 Apr 2014, 5:21 pm

Surely Owen Williams( of Leicester Tigers) will get a call up for the tour?

by The Saint Wed 02 Apr 2014, 6:00 pm

Jhamer25 wrote:Great now Rhys webb is a doubt. We won't be able to do this possible vs probables at this rate. We won't have enough for two teams with replacements (with any quality that is)

You're right it is great, as he blows hot and cold and hopefully this opens the door for Gareth Davies or Richie Rees (just probably the former).

by The Saint Wed 02 Apr 2014, 6:18 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Surely Owen Williams( of Leicester Tigers) will get a call up for the tour?

Cockers thinks he should.

http://www.espn.co.uk/premiership-2013-14/rugby/story/220497.html

by Seagultaf Wed 02 Apr 2014, 8:35 pm

Jimpy wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:I see Richard Cotterill is promoting Owen Williams for the Wales SA tour this summer. He is certainly playing well for Leicester, but to be fair he was pretty ropey for the Scarlets at the end of last season and certainly no where near Priestland in quality. But if he has improved his game certainly worth a look. Is he a better option than Patchell or Hook as third choice 10 at the moment?

I didn't know Tigers had a new head coach...

And seriously, if Preistland is your measure of quality at 10, you're in real trouble.

You know who I meant!

Also the only real top quality 10 in the 6N sides is Sexton, the remainder can be good poor or indifferent depending on the day and the opposition. Priestland, Biggar Farrell, Flood, Weir etc all are pretty much on a par and have good points and bad points but Sexton is a level above the rest. as Sexton is Irish then it is realistic to compare him to Wales best two 10s!

You're drunk aren't you?

Priestland was a liability for Wales, Biggar and Farrell are miles ahead of him, Flood didn't play so you can't possibly compare his form to Priestland's and even Weir had his moments. Priestland is bottom of the pile and I doubt many (even Welsh) would disagree.

Priestland played poorly against England and in the second half against Ireland behind a pack that was getting smashed. Biggar looked good against Scotland in what was not much more than an uncontested training excercise. Farrell also looks good behind a pack going forward but poor when under pressure.

Dont forget Priestland was at 10 when Wales won the Grand slam and got into the semis of the World Cup. He like many of the other 10s in the 6N struggle when put under pressure.

I stand by my opinion that aside from Sexton the other 6N 10s are all pretty much the same standard.

by Jhamer25 Wed 02 Apr 2014, 10:07 pm

The Saint wrote:
Jhamer25 wrote:Great now Rhys webb is a doubt. We won't be able to do this possible vs probables at this rate. We won't have enough for two teams with replacements (with any quality that is)

You're right it is great, as he blows hot and cold and hopefully this opens the door for Gareth Davies or Richie Rees (just probably the former).

Gareth Davies has a chance but i don't think Gatland will ever favour Rees again. I wish he would give him the chance but i can't see it coming true

by Jimpy Thu 03 Apr 2014, 8:01 am

Seagultaf wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:I see Richard Cotterill is promoting Owen Williams for the Wales SA tour this summer. He is certainly playing well for Leicester, but to be fair he was pretty ropey for the Scarlets at the end of last season and certainly no where near Priestland in quality. But if he has improved his game certainly worth a look. Is he a better option than Patchell or Hook as third choice 10 at the moment?

I didn't know Tigers had a new head coach...

And seriously, if Preistland is your measure of quality at 10, you're in real trouble.

You know who I meant!

Also the only real top quality 10 in the 6N sides is Sexton, the remainder can be good poor or indifferent depending on the day and the opposition. Priestland, Biggar Farrell, Flood, Weir etc all are pretty much on a par and have good points and bad points but Sexton is a level above the rest. as Sexton is Irish then it is realistic to compare him to Wales best two 10s!

You're drunk aren't you?

Priestland was a liability for Wales, Biggar and Farrell are miles ahead of him, Flood didn't play so you can't possibly compare his form to Priestland's and even Weir had his moments. Priestland is bottom of the pile and I doubt many (even Welsh) would disagree.

Priestland played poorly against England and in the second half against Ireland behind a pack that was getting smashed. Biggar looked good against Scotland in what was not much more than an uncontested training excercise. Farrell also looks good behind a pack going forward but poor when under pressure.

Dont forget Priestland was at 10 when Wales won the Grand slam and got into the semis of the World Cup. He like many of the other 10s in the 6N struggle when put under pressure.

I stand by my opinion that aside from Sexton the other 6N 10s are all pretty much the same standard.

Okay, but Sexton was mediocre against England, Farrell was definately better in that match. Given that for a bounce of a ball, england would now ber GS champions, how does that stack up? In my opinion, there is a definate pecking order. Farrell and Sexton about (give or take) equal and the rest pretty much of the same standard. I'm sorry, whatever Priestland WAS, he ISNT now. Miles behind.

by bedfordwelsh Thu 03 Apr 2014, 9:02 am

Never wish anyone an injury had way to many myself but am still not convinced by Webb so for me its not a big loss, now maybe at least one of the two forms 9s this season may get a shout.

by The Saint Thu 03 Apr 2014, 11:47 am

Jimpy wrote:In my opinion, there is a definate pecking order. Farrell and Sexton about (give or take) equal and the rest pretty much of the same standard. I'm sorry, whatever Priestland WAS, he ISNT now. Miles behind.

I agree with that.

by lostinwales Thu 03 Apr 2014, 12:51 pm

Sexton must still be ahead but Farrell is improving all the time

by jimmyinthewell68 Thu 03 Apr 2014, 3:32 pm

yes Wales def need a 10 oh and a 9 . obviously a New 3 and 1 soon . oh and a backup 8 . did i mention a 10 .

by bedfordwelsh Thu 03 Apr 2014, 4:47 pm

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:yes Wales def need a 10 oh and a 9 . obviously a New 3 and 1 soon . oh and a backup 8 . did i mention a 10 .

We have a ready made No1 in Paul James and he should have been 1st choice all season, there are players coming through in the other positions you mentioned but when do we try them out. Summer tour, AIs or 6 Nations?

by glamorganalun Thu 03 Apr 2014, 8:29 pm

Jimpy wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:I see Richard Cotterill is promoting Owen Williams for the Wales SA tour this summer. He is certainly playing well for Leicester, but to be fair he was pretty ropey for the Scarlets at the end of last season and certainly no where near Priestland in quality. But if he has improved his game certainly worth a look. Is he a better option than Patchell or Hook as third choice 10 at the moment?

I didn't know Tigers had a new head coach...

And seriously, if Preistland is your measure of quality at 10, you're in real trouble.

spot on Preistland shouĺd be nowhere near the squad.

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