Wales tour of SA

First topic message reminder :

Halfpenny is out and recent news (unknown to me) is stating that Warburton will now also miss out due to a dislocated shoulder. It doesn't look good for us going to SA without these two and with our recent away form being so bad. Personally I think it would be a good idea if we had a midweek game before the first test against a SA Provincial team, using the majority of our first team.

Who would you like to see on the plane?

I would love for Priestland to be given the summer off sent back to the Region with some reassurance that if he regains form and confidence he will be looked at again and not just left in the wilderness.

Unfortunately I think we all know he will tour.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I would love for Priestland to be given the summer off sent back to the Region with some reassurance that if he regains form and confidence he will be looked at again and not just left in the wilderness.

Unfortunately I think we all know he will tour.

Of course he should tour, he's right up there with the best 10's in the NH....   

Owen Williams put in another good performance for the Tigers today, I think hes worth taking on tour ahead of Priestland

Think we all would like him to go and get looked at but like said I don't think it will happen.

Surely if you take 3 10's you should take Williams - big misopportunity if he is left behind

Iv'e been thinking of this possible vs probables game and im starting to think i could actually happen. With Glasgow ahead of the Ospreys now and 6 games left, they have to be favorites to be in the play offs. Therefore no more ages for any of the regions. Gatland will definitely arrange something i'm sure but this match cold be beneficial after all; a the start i wasn't sure on it but the idea has grown on me.
Anyhow if the match does o ahead, i for one would want to see a competitive match between two strong side. This means playing players who are close to starting against there opposite numbers (players form the bench e.g. Paul James) and put them in the possible. Then bring in a few new faces to proves themselves against our starting XV. I myself would like to see the following teams against each other.

Probables
1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Ken Owens (Hibbards injured)
3. Adam Jones
4. Alyn Wyn Jones
5. Luke Charteris (won't qualify in the Top 14 with Perpignan)
6. Dan Lydiate (won't qualify in the Top 14 with Racing)
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Toby Falateu
9. Rhodri Wiliams (Webb injured)

10. Dan Biggar
11. George North (would be a doubt with Northampton)
12. Jamie Roberts (won't qualify in the Top 14 with Racing)
13. Johnathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Liam Williams

16. Emyr Phillips, 17. Ryan Bevington, 18. Rhodri Jones, 19. Andrew Coombs, 20. Ryan Jones, 21. Mike Phillips, 22. Rhys Priestland, 23. Ashley Beck

Possibles
1. Paul James
2. Matthew Rees
3. Samson Lee
4. Jake Ball
5. Ian Evans
6. Lewis Evans
7. Sam Lewis
8. Dan Baker

9.Gareth Davies
10. Owen Williams (could be a doubt with Leicester)
11. Eli Walker (if fit)
12. James Hook
13. Cory Allen (Scott Williams is injured but would be a contender for the starting XV)
14. Jordan Williams
15. Lee Byrne (could be a doubt with Clermont)

16. Kristian Dacey, 17. Rob Evans, 18. Nicky Thomas, 19. Bradley Davies (if fit), 20. Aaron Shingler, 21. Richie Rees, 22. Rhys Patchell (if fit), 23. Jack Dixon

Argue if you will but it think that possible front 5 would give ours probables front 5 a run for there money

I agree the possibles front 5 looks pretty strong but after that the wheels fall off and your post really demonstrates for me, how thin Wales strength in depth is.

Owen Williams and Byrne will be tied up in the play offs, Sam Lewis, Cory Allen, Rob Evans, Jordan Williams and Dacey have shown promise but are a long way off test quality at present. Walker and Brad Davies are injured. Baker, Nicky Thomas and Dixon struggle to get a game with their regions. And Hook at 12, against Roberts & Davies, never!

In fact the only way I think that two competitive sides could be fielded would be to include NWQ guest players from the regions.

Seagultaf wrote:I agree the possibles front 5 looks pretty strong but after that the wheels fall off and your post really demonstrates for me, how thin Wales strength in depth is.

Owen Williams and Byrne will be tied up in the play offs, Sam Lewis, Cory Allen, Rob Evans, Jordan Williams and Dacey have shown promise but are a long way off test quality at present. Walker and Brad Davies are injured. Baker, Nicky Thomas and Dixon struggle to get a game with their regions. And Hook at 12, against Roberts & Davies, never!

In fact the only way I think that two competitive sides could be fielded would be to include NWQ guest players from the regions.

Yes very fair summary. I did struggle with the backs and Hook i there just for being there to be honest, i would just like to test and see how the likes of Rob, Allen, Dacey or Owen Williams are like.
On that NWQ thing though, wouldn't mind seeing that John Barclay guy in a welsh jersey. His country don't use him after all. It's just game time is crucial for these guys, especially when you are coming up against, probable the strongest side in world rugby. I'm sure the Boks won't take it easy on us if our boys go into the game undercooked.

I think it would be quite difficult though not impossible to put two teams out without including any of the English/French based players.

There would be a lot of youth in there thats for sure.

i think a few probables would be worried about this game .playing against  a young upcoming possible with gatland watching won't be to their best interest . wow they might even have to up their game

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but the warm up game for the Boks have been confirmed, Nick Mallet's World XV will play the Springboks the weekend before the first Welsh test at Newlands.

Biltong wrote:Not sure if it has been mentioned, but the warm up game for the Boks have been confirmed, Nick Mallet's World XV will play the Springboks the weekend before the first Welsh test at Newlands.

Sounds good, hope its televised

Nick Mallett's world XV

I wonder who will play Scrum half? I hope he still has Mauro's number  

watched the ospreys game last night . Dan baker cracking game . lots of ball carrying and went past a few players . Toby finally got some competition if he keeps it up

Yeah I agree. Wasn't impressed with Tipuric though. I'm not sure he's the 7 we need in SA.

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:watched the ospreys game last night . Dan baker cracking game . lots of ball carrying and went past a few players . Toby finally got some competition if he keeps it up

Agreed Baker had a really good game and as you said some good competition for Taulupe, there are a few good young N08s out there at the moment.

Morgan Allen at the Os as well, though Baker seems to have been given the nod and also Ieuan Jones going to the Blues next year is a good move for him.

Here's to hoping Samson Lee goes on the tour. Helped a shocking Scarlets team secure victory after coming on as sub tonight. One of the few highlights of a dismal game. He's been brilliant all season - just taking loose heads apart in game after game. Totally destructive scrummager performing way beyond his years. Our front five could be pretty beefy this summer ...

1 Paul James
2 Richard Hibbard/Ken Owens
3 Samson Lee
4 Alun Wyn
5 Jake Ball

Not that I think Gatland will go for that   but that's a front five to put a little smile on my face.

TBS,

I think all those will tour SA (has Hibbard been ruled out) and I would really like to see that line up at some stage.

I would rest Alun Wyn and start charteris in that front 5

Oh Jesus Christ, Tipuric is injured and probably out the SA tour.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/justin-tipuric-set-miss-wales-7002153

Please don't play Bradley Davies in the backrow...please...Play Coombs ffs

Yeah it doesnt make sense to do that.

6. Lydiates
7. Faletau
8. Baker / Jones

Would be a better alternative, likewise they could take specialist players like Navidi, Sam Lewis and Shingler

Gatland sounds like such an idiot. I don't see this obsession with size against size. Yes the SA back row is big, but what has happened to tackling round the legs? Should it matter what size a player is as long as they're defensively sound and good in their position? Lydiate, on his day, is the best tackler in the Wales team. leave him at 6 to do the 'joe worsely' role and just tackle all day. Then stick in a 7 who can get in over the ball quickly and you're halfway there.

BD at 6 is just ludicrous thinking.

He'll only give away a yellow anyway

Gatland's mysterious, otherworldly reasoning surfaces again. Bradley Davies at 7 indeed... I hope to hell that's a late April Fool. Sounds worse than the Gareth Jenkins AWJ-at-6 shocker

When's the last time we successfully beat a side at their own game?

V England 2013, out scrummaged them and out muscled them. But that was an anomaly

TBH, and I've previously alluded to this, Tips isn't what we would need in SA. Instead of doing most of the turn-over work he was once renowned for, he's just playing like an extra backline player. I think Navidi has been playing very well however, as has Baker. For me Davies shouldn't even make the team. Putting him to 6 just doesn't make any sense. If you want size there, then either Ball or AWJ should go to 6 as they're large, quicker and more mobile.

Or Coombs..

Not sure if he's large enough. If we're planning on winning the breakdown by getting turnovers though, Coombs and Lydiate is a 6/7 combo to look at, with Navidi coming on at some point near the end of the game.

strange call for Bradley . no competing at breakdown then .Toby does a lot of turn overs . Dan lyd 6 ,Toby at 7 Dan baker 8 .

We are never going to out power them, we tried at home and got smashed to pieces.

Agreed with Munkian.

We have Coombes who is a 4/6 so can play there and we have lydiate at 6 also. You want to compete at the breakdown then you do not stick BD or AWJ there, you put Navidi. He's not 6ft 8 but you don't need to be to do the job of a 7.

The problem is our game plan is all about physicality and winning the collisions...against SA...yeah.

We were never trying to outpower SA, the last time I seen that was at the RWC. We initially tried to run them around a bit then half our backline got injured, RP didn't have a good game. SA just played a simple, power game (De Villiers said that afterwards too) that relied on us to play into their hands. Worked quite well for them.

gcBlues wrote:Agreed with Munkian.

We have Coombes who is a 4/6 so can play there and we have lydiate at 6 also. You want to compete at the breakdown then you do not stick BD or AWJ there, you put Navidi. He's not 6ft 8 but you don't need to be to do the job of a 7.

The problem is our game plan is all about physicality and winning the collisions...against SA...yeah.

I can see where Gats is coming from though. If they're not around the same size, like Navidi isn't, we'll just get smashed off the breakdown. I do like Gatlands idea as I think it could pay off, but I'd personally go for some quicker back-row players now that our front 5 is sorted (bar the loss of Hibbard, huge loss too).

Ken Owens will make up for it I think

How about Lyd 6, Faletau 7, Ryan Jones or AWJ 8 ?

Faletau is a decent ball stealer himself

Bradley Davies has been out most of the season too, he wont be match fit enough for SA

The Saint wrote:We were never trying to outpower SA, the last time I seen that was at the RWC. We initially tried to run them around a bit then half our backline got injured, RP didn't have a good game. SA just played a simple, power game (De Villiers said that afterwards too) that relied on us to play into their hands. Worked quite well for them.

Have to admit that's not how I remember it (the RWC game, not the autumn fixture). In NZ Wales fielded the balance of Lydiate-Warbs-Faletau, all of whom were on fire that day and very nearly won it for us. Lydiate tackled like a demon, Warbs made turnover after turnover (and won MOTM I believe) and Faletau of course scored a try and made some big runs. Only recent game I've seen us completely outplay the Boks on the floor. Worth noting though that it was against a completely different SA back row (Brussow-Burger-Spies)

The autumn game was poor and one-sided in comparison

Considering early injuries, I didn't think the Autumn game went too badly.

Knowsit17 wrote:

The Saint wrote:We were never trying to outpower SA, the last time I seen that was at the RWC. We initially tried to run them around a bit then half our backline got injured, RP didn't have a good game. SA just played a simple, power game (De Villiers said that afterwards too) that relied on us to play into their hands. Worked quite well for them.

Have to admit that's not how I remember it (the RWC game, not the autumn fixture). In NZ Wales fielded the balance of Lydiate-Warbs-Faletau, all of whom were on fire that day and very nearly won it for us. Lydiate tackled like a demon, Warbs made turnover after turnover (and won MOTM I believe) and Faletau of course scored a try and made some big runs. Only recent game I've seen us completely outplay the Boks on the floor. Worth noting though that it was against a completely different SA back row (Brussow-Burger-Spies)

The autumn game was poor and one-sided in comparison

You're not wrong. But we were winning the collisions too, when we weren't we were at least matching them. A couple pieces of Bok brilliance won them the game. We had to play that well just to get within 1 point.

Whenever Wales are winning the collisions, we usually win the game, but like you've also alluded to the Boks team is different and I don't think anyone beats them in the collisions. Aus were beating them for a while, but Meyer has changed the outlook of the team and they got crushed.

The is a good opportunity to try a few players..!

Lewis Evans? Shingler?

Evans yes, not Shingler though, no place for that type of player in the modern game unless he improves breakdown work, etc.

Lewis Evans is more in the Warburton mode size wise etc and Navidi is more in the Tipuric mode so for me one or both of them should tour as cover for Warburton and Tipuric.

The Bradley Davies at 7 idea is just an unbelievably stupid one and sends out the wrong message to players likes Evans and Navidi.

Liam Williams could get cited and banned for that challenge on Cuthbert today, so that would fok things up even worse for us in SA.

Priestland has just missed a kick from right in front of the posts, people still want him on the SA tour?

IronMike wrote:Priestland has just missed a kick from right in front of the posts, people still want him on the SA tour?

He's showing himself up as a liability increasingly with each passing game. This is the consequence of picking a player regardless of form, you get the feeling the player concerned doesn't feel any particular urgent need to play competitively to be sure of his place. The rot of complacency is setting.

If Gatland picks him for the SA tour at this rate I might just consider starting a supporters' crusade and marching on the WRU (even if it's a one-man crusade)

I thought Tipuric was supposedly ruled out of the SA tour, and hes playing today?

He needs surgery which would rule him out. He's playing for the Ospreys carrying an injury.

Leave him at home anyway. He wasn't even the best 7 on the pitch today

Navidi was best 7. Rees was best 9 by quite some distance, though the Blues U20s boy looked good too.

IronMike wrote:Priestland has just missed a kick from right in front of the posts, people still want him on the SA tour?

I don't think many want him to tour but most accept he will.

Hopefully Li Williams will only get a match ban or two.

Thought Allen was the stand out centre yesterday as well, almost always made something happen when he had the ball and was solid defensively.

I still reckon Gethin was MOTM though.