Potential Irish centres

by PredictorofTeams Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:12 pm

JARED PAYNE (Ulster)
The 28-year-old former New Zealand Under-21 player was earmarked as a successor to O’Driscoll when Ulster signed him in 2011, and he becomes Irish-qualified under the three-year residency rule next season.
An ex-Crusaders and a stand-out player with the Blues in 2011 mostly as an outside centre, his first season with Ulster was ruined by a ruptured Achilles tendon but with his sumptuous timing he’s oozed class when gliding into the line from ‘15’ in the last two seasons and when afforded occasional outings at his favoured ‘13’.
Looks the part. KEITH EARLS (Munster)
Devastatingly quick, with good footwork, of the candidates the 26-year-old Earls is possibly only rivalled by Fitzgerald for his ability to beat a man and has the best strike rate (26 tries in 91 games for Munster, 12 in 39 for Ireland).
Yet likewise has suffered with injuries and for his versatility, and laterally has been more of a wing.
Still, Earls deputised impressively for O’Driscoll in the 2012 Six Nations and in the autumn of that year.
DARREN CAVE (Ulster)
The hard running, strong tackling 26-year-old has actually the biggest body of work at outside centre over the last six seasons, having played 129 games for Ulster (scoring 30 tries) in that time.
He has also won five caps, albeit all of them away on summer tours, of which two apiece have been against the USA and Canada.
For all the previous doubts about his passing skills, he has upped his try assists this season and is likely to be taken on summer tour.
ROBBIE HENSHAW (Connacht)
Henshaw blossomed in his latter years with Marist College in Ahtlone, playing for the Irish schools, under-18 and under-19 teams.
Has already accumulated 38 games in two seasons for Connacht, mostly at full-back, where he also made his debut for Ireland against the USA, adding two more caps off the bench.
Clearly identified by Joe Schmidt as a potential 13, it is hard to credit he’s still only 20, and will have the size, power and speed to compete in the modern-day midfield war zone.
FERGUS McFADDEN (Leinster)
The 26-year-old has 103 games for Leinster and 26 for Ireland, and not alone began life as a centre but used to regard ‘13’ as his best and most effective position.
Brave, physical and quick, although he still sporadically plays at ‘13’, has mostly played on the wing.
Of his 13 Test starts, two were at outside centre in the World Cup warm-up defeat to Scotland and the home Six Nations defeat to Wales last season; the rest were on the wing.
LUKE FITZGERALD (Leinster)
Like his kindred spirit Earls, the gifted Fitzgerald has been a victim of injuries and versatility.
Hence, although he has played 122 games for Leinster and 27 for Ireland over eight seasons, he could have achieved more.
Of his 19 starts – the last was the World Cup warm-up match in Bordeaux in August 2011 – three have been at ‘12’, five at full-back and the rest on the wing. When fit and confident, has wondrous footwork, real gas and is a finisher.

In my opinion, Fitzgerald out of all the candidates, has the potential to be the greatest.
He has illustrious acceleration, great strength, and rarely misses tackles.He has experience at the highlest level(started for the lions), and is still only 26!(2 years younger than Mr.Payne).

by The Saint Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:23 pm

Fitzgerald is really overrated in Ireland. From that list, the only realistic options are Cave and Henshaw. Not so sure about Payne as I believe he mostly plays 15. Why are Marshall and Madigan not on your list?

by geoff998rugby Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:15 pm

That is a list for 13 not 12

If you were listing for 12 as well you need to add D'Arcy, Marshall, Olding and Madigan.

If Joe Schmidt was naming a World Cup squad today, with everyone fit (and Payne available) I don't think Fitzgerald would even make the squad

by PredictorofTeams Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:26 pm

The Saint wrote:Fitzgerald is really overrated in Ireland. From that list, the only realistic options are Cave and Henshaw. Not so sure about Payne as I believe he mostly plays 15. Why are Marshall and Madigan not on your list?

Marshall is getting concussed very often, and I unfortunately think he will be forced to retire.Madigan isn't a centre!!!

by The Saint Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:27 pm

True, but you can get Schmidt sees Madigan as a 12 option when the going gets tough.

by **profitius** Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:48 pm

The Saint wrote:Fitzgerald is really overrated in Ireland. From that list, the only realistic options are Cave and Henshaw. Not so sure about Payne as I believe he mostly plays 15. Why are Marshall and Madigan not on your list?

Fitz would make a good center. Big player with excellent footwork. As a winger he hasn't lived up to his earlier potential but center is his best position IMO.

by mrsuperclear Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:52 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:That is a list for 13 not 12

If you were listing for 12 as well you need to add D'Arcy, Marshall, Olding and Madigan.

If Joe Schmidt was naming a World Cup squad today, with everyone fit (and Payne available) I don't think Fitzgerald would even make the squad

That's probably true, but if Fitzgerald had stayed fit just prior to the six nations he would have started on the left wing for Ireland. A few weeks is a long time in rugby. Given the start to his career and the hype surrounding his potential since the start to now, it would be something else if missed the squad for the 2015 world cup after missing out in 2011.

As for outside centre for the world cup, I think Payne has obviously been penciled in for it by management given the central contract he got etc. Henshaw & Cave have to put in serious shifts on the summer tour to put down a marker before Payne becomes an Irish qualified player in the autumn if they are to get the spot instead IMO.

by Artful_Dodger Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:57 pm

profitius wrote:
The Saint wrote:Fitzgerald is really overrated in Ireland. From that list, the only realistic options are Cave and Henshaw. Not so sure about Payne as I believe he mostly plays 15. Why are Marshall and Madigan not on your list?

Fitz would make a good center.

Been hearing this for 4 or 5 seasons now.

by **Notch** Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:34 pm

Poor Luke Fitzgerald has so much natural talent and ability and yet has never scraped the surface of what he's really capable of. He's even more of a squandered talent than Keith Earls.

Part of that is Fitzgeralds stinking bad luck with injury.

by Golden Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:36 pm

I think a lot will depend on how the provinces choose their 1st teams next year.

With Marshall, Olding, Cave and Payne Ulster have 4 of the main players that will be looked at. With such depth at centre it would make sense to keep Payne at 15.

With Bod off at the end of the season Leinster are going to be forced to play either Fitz or McFadden in the centre or sign someone else (cant see Macken been 1st choice).

At Connacht Griffen is off to England so Henshaw will presumably be playing the vast majority of rugby at 13.

With Lualua off at Munster I'd imagine Earls will see a lot of game time in the centres, especially with their depth in the back 3.

Of course Schmidt may just tell the provinces who he wants to see play there.

by Feckless Rogue Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:47 pm

Bowe is a credible option given Trimbles form on the wing. I always thought Fitzgerald would be a good centre. A great one actually. He's a great tackler and he has the ability to carve open a defence. He'd be more suited to centre than the wing. Unlike Earls, who is a great winger with a brilliant strike rate but a poor centre.

by geoff998rugby Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:31 pm

mrsuperclear wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:That is a list for 13 not 12

If you were listing for 12 as well you need to add D'Arcy, Marshall, Olding and Madigan.

If Joe Schmidt was naming a World Cup squad today, with everyone fit (and Payne available) I don't think Fitzgerald would even make the squad

That's probably true, but if Fitzgerald had stayed fit just prior to the six nations he would have started on the left wing for Ireland..

By the same token if every winger had been fit Fitzgerald would not have played and because of Trimble form if every winger was fit now he would not make the bench.
He has a mountain to climb to get back in the frame. If he really shines he could take the utility spot currently occupied by McFadden but that is it

by Sin é Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:26 pm

Irish Times today on the subject:

Will it be Payne? Henshaw? Fitzgerald? Cave? Earls? Who? It’ll be interesting

Gerry Thornley
Sat, Mar 22, 2014, 11:00

Competition keen for that green 13
Will it be Payne? Henshaw? Fitzgerald? Cave? Earls? Who? It’ll be interesting
Brian O’Driscoll’s number 13 jersey hanging in the changing room – waiting for a new owner. But who will it be? The search is on. Photograph: Dan Sheridan/Inpho

Brian O’Driscoll’s number 13 jersey hanging in the changing room – waiting for a new owner. But who will it be? The search is on. Photograph: Dan Sheridan/Inpho

Gerry Thornley

Will there be life after Brian? Yes, of course, life will move on, even if it will never be quite the same, simply because we will never see his like again. Though it might seem fairer to retire the jersey with the great man, players will rapidly emerge to wear the now famous green number 13 jersey. Once a no-go area for young Irish players, now there actually is quite a tussle to assume the position.

As things stand, Joe Schmidt and co have only 10 Tests and up to four World Cup warm-up matches to first locate and then develop a successor. Yet the value in having had O’Driscoll play on has paid off.

Not alone did he pass on advice to Robbie Henshaw and Darren Cave in camp, his presence off and on the pitch must have been inspiring, and another part of his legacy is a second Six Nations title.

On foot of watching O’Driscoll’s bag of tricks in creating three tries against Italy, ex-Leinster coach Michael Cheika, who fervently believes O’Driscoll could have played on until the World Cup, texted him. ‘Mate, can you just remind me, why are you retiring?’

“But the importance of Ireland winning the championship is huge and with the quality of people like Joe (Schmidt), (John) Plumtree and Les Kiss involved, Ireland have gone up a level,” says the now NSW Waratahs coach.

“Not just winning the Championship, but the way they won it – it was a difficult series for them and they had to go and win in Paris – is more important to the confidence in the side than you would have had from blooding a new guy and perhaps running in the middle of the table.”

more here .......

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/competition-keen-for-that-green-13-1.1734097?page=3

by Sin é Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:28 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:Bowe is a credible option given Trimbles form on the wing. I always thought Fitzgerald would be a good centre. A great one actually. He's a great tackler and he has the ability to carve open a defence. He'd be more suited to centre than the wing. Unlike Earls, who is a great winger with a brilliant strike rate but a poor centre.

Irish Times wrote:

No-one has actually deputised more impressively for O’Driscoll than Keith Earls, although perhaps even more than Fitzgerald, you wonder if he has the physique for the additional number of collisions that invariably comes with playing in midfield.

“Keith is always an option,” says Foley. “When you looked at Keith coming through everybody would have assumed his position was 13. His speed, pace and anticipation is so good you just get him out on the pitch. He’s got that ability to beat people one-on-one, whether at 13, wing or fullback. Throughout his career he’s always had that ability to stand someone up one-on-one.”

Foley has no doubts about Earls’ oft-questioned passing skills. “There’s nothing wrong with his passing skills,” says Foley forcefully. “He’s played here since the 07-08 season. He’s been a long time in this system but probably the one thing that has affected his development as a 13 has been playing on the wing, so if we decide, and Keith decides, to let him have a crack at 13, you’ve got to invest in that every week.”

“If he’s going to be an Irish 13 it’s got to be Keith investing in it, it’s got to be Joe, it’s got to be me. I’d like to think Keith Earls can do it but if Keith Earls is to do it, he needs to be able to do it at Munster. Hopefully that will be the case, because we’d like to get more Munster players wearing the Irish jersey.”

by LeinsterFan4life Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:31 pm

Earls shouldn't even be considered. You can't have a guy who can't pass in the centre.

by Sin é Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:40 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Earls shouldn't even be considered. You can't have a guy who can't pass in the centre.

He can't pass - Munster's new head coach doesn't agree with you.

Watch these (one of his passes to Zebo is as good as BOD's one to Zebo that everyone was ohing and ahing about against Wales).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ9kKBz2uzo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkW4yZcwVwE

By the way, there was an interview with Brian O'Driscoll just before the 6 Nations, when the first person he mentioned was Earls.
I'd imagine he has been told not to mention him again because of people like you having a hissy fit at the idea.

by LeinsterFan4life Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:50 pm

Not having a hissy fit I'm just being realistic about his limitations.

He also isn't the best defender. I remember him being easily brushed aside by Tuilagi in the RWC warm up game which cost us a try. However If he starts playing well in the centre for Munster I'll happily reconsider my opinion on him.

by Sin é Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:55 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Not having a hissy fit I'm just being realistic about his limitations.

He also isn't the best defender. I remember him being easily brushed aside by Tuilagi in the RWC warm up game which cost us a try. However If he starts playing well in the centre for Munster I'll happily reconsider my opinion on him.

Crikey, you still remember that from 3 years ago. Fair play to you. Do you consider Fergus McFadden a poor defender as well? Something similar happened to him (and indeed, BOD has missed a few) in his career, so Earls isn't on his own.

The last thing I'd worry about with Earls is his defence. At least he has the gas to catch someone if they do get past him. Rob Kearney should retire now going on his defence.

(By the way, the following six nations that Earls played in after the world cup at 13, he didn't miss a tackle in the whole tournament)!

by Rory_Gallagher Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:59 pm

Could be this pair:

Potential Irish centres _68032151_inpho_00705537

by Sin é Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:05 pm

I think Henshaw will definately be in the mix, but not until after the next world cup. In ROG's column in the Examiner a while back, he mentioned that Henshaw was viewed by Schmidt as a Welsh style big back option (I'd imagine ROG would be in the know because of Sexton).

Brian O'Driscoll said something in that interview before the 6Ns something about the backs being more interchangeable and less position specific in future.

by LeinsterFan4life Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:06 pm

Aye I remember it well Sin e as I was at that game Smile

by Feckless Rogue Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:11 pm

The thing is Earls is a brilliant winger. And a very average centre. So if he decides to be a centre it will not be good for the rest of his career and he won't win as many caps. The fact that Foley is saying that Munster and Ireland have to invest more time in him to make him a better centre says it all. He's not good enough at that position. Enough time has been invested. Put him on the wing. No time needs to be invested. He's class there.

by Shifty Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:15 pm

Clone BOD twice! angel

by Sin é Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:21 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:The thing is Earls is a brilliant winger. And a very average centre. So if he decides to be a centre it will not be good for the rest of his career and he won't win as many caps. The fact that Foley is saying that Munster and Ireland have to invest more time in him to make him a better centre says it all. He's not good enough at that position. Enough time has been invested. Put him on the wing. No time needs to be invested. He's class there.

Really, there is nothing average about Earls as a player. He happens to be Munster's best centre and Munster's best winger. Munster are letting Laulala go (and announced ages ago that he was moving on even though he hasn't signed for another club yet).

By the way, I think they mean that he needs to get a run of games in the centre and not be continually moved around. He is only on the wing for Munster this last season because Dougie had to retire.

He may not be scoring as many tries in the centre, but Zebo hasn't been scoring as many tries now that he hasn't been playing there either.

by Feckless Rogue Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:33 pm

I don't watch many Munster games. I just was not impressed by his performances at centre for Ireland. Admittedly I was not impressed with any Irish players or the team in general around that period.

If he gets a run and is really good there I'd be happy with that. But I think he's a natural born winger, not a centre. He's a finisher more than a creator for others.

My ideal Irish back three would be 11. Earls, 14. Bowe, 15. Zebo. That would be deadly.

by Golden Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:02 pm

Can't really judge Earls's Irish performances over the last couple of years would be hard to pick out any players that stood out.

He's looked good there for Munster, his passing is grand and it must be hard to have a great defence when having to mix and match between 11, 13, 14 and 15. I would however worry about his awareness of others. I'm sure that will improve with Schmidt and some consistency in selection. In O'Driscoll were not just losing our best centre we are also losing the organiser of our defence. Not sure earls can do that. Not sure about the others either though except maybe cave.

by LeinsterFan4life Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:25 pm

I don't think his performamces have been good for Munster when playing in the centre, well at least in the big games as thats why Laulala was brought in, is it not?

Everytime he plays centre there are loads of people even on Munsterfans saying he should be left on the wing.

by geoff998rugby Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:26 pm

Sin é wrote:Irish Times today on the subject:

Will it be Payne? Henshaw? Fitzgerald? Cave? Earls? Who? It’ll be interesting

Listen to Schmidt himself - the three names he mentioned are Payne, Henshaw and Cave

I do think Earls will have a roll but as one of the 3 main wingers not as a 13

by geoff998rugby Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:27 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I don't think his performamces have been good for Munster when playing in the centre, well at least in the big games as thats why Laulala was brought in, is it not?

Everytime he plays centre there are loads of people even on Munsterfans saying he should be left on the wing.

Agreed it is no coincidence that Earls, prior to injury, was playing his best rugby for a while - on the wing.
Leave him there

by Rory_Gallagher Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:28 pm

Earls certainly proved tonight that his distribution is indeed a weakness.. butchered a very good attacking opportunity with a poor pass to Donnacha Ryan. Had a great game aside though, but certainly he seems to be best on the wing.

by Sin é Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:39 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:
Sin é wrote:Irish Times today on the subject:

Will it be Payne? Henshaw? Fitzgerald? Cave? Earls? Who? It’ll be interesting

Listen to Schmidt himself - the three names he mentioned are Payne, Henshaw and Cave

I do think Earls will have a roll but as one of the 3 main wingers not as a 13

You were saying last week he wouldn't even make the squad. Very Happy

Going on what ROG said a while back when talking about Earls - he said he is the only Irish player to trouble Brian O'Driscoll every time in training. I presume that is what he was brought into the Ireland camp for a day last week to provide opposition.

by Sin é Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:48 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I don't think his performamces have been good for Munster when playing in the centre, well at least in the big games as thats why Laulala was brought in, is it not?

Everytime he plays centre there are loads of people even on Munsterfans saying he should be left on the wing.

Laulala benched for Earls when he came in first. Laulala was tried at 12 and on the wing. He couldn't play in either. Then Howlett got injured and Earls was moved to 14 (where he has rarely played, if ever, up to then). His first game there in recent times was against Clermont in the HCup semi last year. Up to that, he was the starting outside centre.

I don't know why so many people took a set against him playing in the centre (which is the position he has spent most of his playing career in). I think he is wasted a little bit on the wing - you want your best player to be getting his hands on the ball a lot. Zebo scored all his Heineken Cup hattricks outside Earls at 13 by the way.

by Sin é Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:50 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Earls certainly proved tonight that his distribution is indeed a weakness.. butchered a very good attacking opportunity with a poor pass to Donnacha Ryan. Had a great game aside though, but certainly he seems to be best on the wing.

Just remember Earls hasn't played since the Heineken Cup in January and it was a Poopie night. Zebo would have held that pass. it was unfortunate that it was Ryan (a forward!) at the end of it.

By the way, he was on the wing tonight. He didn't have a winger to distribute it to!

by LeinsterFan4life Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:54 pm

Sin é wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:I don't think his performamces have been good for Munster when playing in the centre, well at least in the big games as thats why Laulala was brought in, is it not?

Everytime he plays centre there are loads of people even on Munsterfans saying he should be left on the wing.

Laulala benched for Earls when he came in first. Laulala was tried at 12 and on the wing. He couldn't play in either. Then Howlett got injured and Earls was moved to 14 (where he has rarely played, if ever, up to then). His first game there in recent times was against Clermont in the HCup semi last year. Up to that, he was the starting outside centre.

I don't know why so many people took a set against him playing in the centre (which is the position he has spent most of his playing career in). I think he is wasted a little bit on the wing - you want your best player to be getting his hands on the ball a lot. Zebo scored all his Heineken Cup hattricks outside Earls at 13 by the way.

If Earls was the better centre then he would be starting ahead of LLL as Munster have plenty of wingers to fill the gap. But he isn't as LLL is a fantastic player and was brought in, to start at 13. Earls has always been seen as a winger who can play centre not the other way round.

by geoff998rugby Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:01 pm

Sin é wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:
Sin é wrote:Irish Times today on the subject:

Will it be Payne? Henshaw? Fitzgerald? Cave? Earls? Who? It’ll be interesting

Listen to Schmidt himself - the three names he mentioned are Payne, Henshaw and Cave

I do think Earls will have a roll but as one of the 3 main wingers not as a 13

You were saying last week he wouldn't even make the squad.

Going on what ROG said a while back when talking about Earls - he said he is the only Irish player to trouble Brian O'Driscoll every time in training. I presume that is what he was brought into the Ireland camp for a day last week to provide opposition.

No I didn't

I questioned whether or not he was a certainty for a central contract which is a very different thing

by Rory_Gallagher Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:04 pm

Sin é wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Earls certainly proved tonight that his distribution is indeed a weakness.. butchered a very good attacking opportunity with a poor pass to Donnacha Ryan. Had a great game aside though, but certainly he seems to be best on the wing.

Just remember Earls hasn't played since the Heineken Cup in January and it was a Poopie night. Zebo would have held that pass. it was unfortunate that it was Ryan (a forward!) at the end of it.

By the way, he was on the wing tonight. He didn't have a winger to distribute it to!

Okay but the point is no matter who he was throwing the pass to, it was a poor pass..

by Sin é Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:07 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:I don't think his performamces have been good for Munster when playing in the centre, well at least in the big games as thats why Laulala was brought in, is it not?

Everytime he plays centre there are loads of people even on Munsterfans saying he should be left on the wing.

Laulala benched for Earls when he came in first. Laulala was tried at 12 and on the wing. He couldn't play in either. Then Howlett got injured and Earls was moved to 14 (where he has rarely played, if ever, up to then). His first game there in recent times was against Clermont in the HCup semi last year. Up to that, he was the starting outside centre.

I don't know why so many people took a set against him playing in the centre (which is the position he has spent most of his playing career in). I think he is wasted a little bit on the wing - you want your best player to be getting his hands on the ball a lot. Zebo scored all his Heineken Cup hattricks outside Earls at 13 by the way.

If Earls was the better centre then he would be starting ahead of LLL as Munster have plenty of wingers to fill the gap. But he isn't as LLL is a fantastic player and was brought in, to start at 13. Earls has always been seen as a winger who can play centre not the other way round.

You are just wrong on that one.

Heineken Cup starts:
08/09 - 13 x 5. 15 x3.
09/10 - 13 x6. 11 x2.
10/11 - 13 x6.
11/12 - 13 x 4.
12/13 - 13 x 3. 14 x1.
13/14 - 14 x 6.

Casey benched 3 times in the 12/13 season (while Earls started).

by Sin é Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:14 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:Earls certainly proved tonight that his distribution is indeed a weakness.. butchered a very good attacking opportunity with a poor pass to Donnacha Ryan. Had a great game aside though, but certainly he seems to be best on the wing.

Just remember Earls hasn't played since the Heineken Cup in January and it was a Poopie night. Zebo would have held that pass. it was unfortunate that it was Ryan (a forward!) at the end of it.

By the way, he was on the wing tonight. He didn't have a winger to distribute it to!

Okay but the point is no matter who he was throwing the pass to, it was a poor pass..

Well, I wouldn't worry too much about it because a) it was a poor night and b) he hasn't played since the middle of January.

by LeinsterFan4life Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:16 pm

Sin é wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:I don't think his performamces have been good for Munster when playing in the centre, well at least in the big games as thats why Laulala was brought in, is it not?

Everytime he plays centre there are loads of people even on Munsterfans saying he should be left on the wing.

Laulala benched for Earls when he came in first. Laulala was tried at 12 and on the wing. He couldn't play in either. Then Howlett got injured and Earls was moved to 14 (where he has rarely played, if ever, up to then). His first game there in recent times was against Clermont in the HCup semi last year. Up to that, he was the starting outside centre.

I don't know why so many people took a set against him playing in the centre (which is the position he has spent most of his playing career in). I think he is wasted a little bit on the wing - you want your best player to be getting his hands on the ball a lot. Zebo scored all his Heineken Cup hattricks outside Earls at 13 by the way.

If Earls was the better centre then he would be starting ahead of LLL as Munster have plenty of wingers to fill the gap. But he isn't as LLL is a fantastic player and was brought in, to start at 13. Earls has always been seen as a winger who can play centre not the other way round.

You are just wrong on that one.

Heineken Cup starts:
08/09 - 13 x 5. 15 x3.
09/10 - 13 x6. 11 x2.
10/11 - 13 x6.
11/12 - 13 x 4.
12/13 - 13 x 3. 14 x1.
13/14 - 14 x 6.

Casey benched 3 times in the 12/13 season (while Earls started).

Who has started the HC games at 13? LLL or Earls...I just looked at the Glwas away and Perpignan home games and LLL started at 13 and Earls started at 14.

by Rory_Gallagher Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:16 pm

The weather would not affect the pass in this instance, and although Earls is probably a bit rusty on his return, this isn't an isolated incident and that is the point people are making when arguing against him playing as a 13. His distribution and vision can be weak at crucial times in the game.

He will be behind Henshaw, Cave and Payne for the time being. He will have his work cut out for him if he wants to play at 13 for Ireland..

by Sin é Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:30 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:I don't think his performamces have been good for Munster when playing in the centre, well at least in the big games as thats why Laulala was brought in, is it not?

Everytime he plays centre there are loads of people even on Munsterfans saying he should be left on the wing.

Laulala benched for Earls when he came in first. Laulala was tried at 12 and on the wing. He couldn't play in either. Then Howlett got injured and Earls was moved to 14 (where he has rarely played, if ever, up to then). His first game there in recent times was against Clermont in the HCup semi last year. Up to that, he was the starting outside centre.

I don't know why so many people took a set against him playing in the centre (which is the position he has spent most of his playing career in). I think he is wasted a little bit on the wing - you want your best player to be getting his hands on the ball a lot. Zebo scored all his Heineken Cup hattricks outside Earls at 13 by the way.

If Earls was the better centre then he would be starting ahead of LLL as Munster have plenty of wingers to fill the gap. But he isn't as LLL is a fantastic player and was brought in, to start at 13. Earls has always been seen as a winger who can play centre not the other way round.

You are just wrong on that one.

Heineken Cup starts:
08/09 - 13 x 5. 15 x3.
09/10 - 13 x6. 11 x2.
10/11 - 13 x6.
11/12 - 13 x 4.
12/13 - 13 x 3. 14 x1.
13/14 - 14 x 6.

Casey benched 3 times in the 12/13 season (while Earls started).
Who has started the HC games at 13? LLL or Earls...I just looked at the Glwas away and Perpignan home games and LLL started at 13 and Earls started at 14.

OK, here we go again.

Earls was the starting 13 until Doug Howlett had his career ending injury.
Up to that, Casey was benching for Earls. Casey can only play one position (13), so Earls was moved to 14, where Howlett always played. Howlett's last game for Munster was on 29 March 2013.

Earls first game at 14 in the Heineken Cup was on 27 April 2013. He had started at 13 against Racing in the Groups stages in January 2013.

Laulala is leaving at the end of the season. Munster have only 1 outside centre now (Earls) and if you listen to Matt O'Connor, there are no quality 13s available.

by LeinsterFan4life Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:48 pm

Sin é wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Sin é wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:I don't think his performamces have been good for Munster when playing in the centre, well at least in the big games as thats why Laulala was brought in, is it not?

Everytime he plays centre there are loads of people even on Munsterfans saying he should be left on the wing.

Laulala benched for Earls when he came in first. Laulala was tried at 12 and on the wing. He couldn't play in either. Then Howlett got injured and Earls was moved to 14 (where he has rarely played, if ever, up to then). His first game there in recent times was against Clermont in the HCup semi last year. Up to that, he was the starting outside centre.

I don't know why so many people took a set against him playing in the centre (which is the position he has spent most of his playing career in). I think he is wasted a little bit on the wing - you want your best player to be getting his hands on the ball a lot. Zebo scored all his Heineken Cup hattricks outside Earls at 13 by the way.

If Earls was the better centre then he would be starting ahead of LLL as Munster have plenty of wingers to fill the gap. But he isn't as LLL is a fantastic player and was brought in, to start at 13. Earls has always been seen as a winger who can play centre not the other way round.

You are just wrong on that one.

Heineken Cup starts:
08/09 - 13 x 5. 15 x3.
09/10 - 13 x6. 11 x2.
10/11 - 13 x6.
11/12 - 13 x 4.
12/13 - 13 x 3. 14 x1.
13/14 - 14 x 6.

Casey benched 3 times in the 12/13 season (while Earls started).
Who has started the HC games at 13? LLL or Earls...I just looked at the Glwas away and Perpignan home games and LLL started at 13 and Earls started at 14.

OK, here we go again.

Earls was the starting 13 until Doug Howlett had his career ending injury.
Up to that, Casey was benching for Earls. Casey can only play one position (13), so Earls was moved to 14, where Howlett always played. Howlett's last game for Munster was on 29 March 2013.

Earls first game at 14 in the Heineken Cup was on 27 April 2013. He had started at 13 against Racing in the Groups stages in January 2013.

Laulala is leaving at the end of the season. Munster have only 1 outside centre now (Earls) and if you listen to Matt O'Connor, there are no quality 13s available.

This year LLL has clearly been seen as the first choice 13 ahead of Earls. Earls is not playing 14 because of Howlett's retirement, he is playing there because LLL is the better 13 and Earls is seen as more of winger. Why is that so hard to grasp?

by Sin é Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:05 am

If that is the case, can you explain to me why Munster are not keeping Casey Laulala and they brought in Gerhardt van den Heever whose 5 starts for Munster have been wearing the No. 14 jersey.

by LeinsterFan4life Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:14 am

Sin é wrote:If that is the case, can you explain to me why Munster are not keeping Casey Laulala and they brought in Gerhardt van den Heever whose 5 starts for Munster have been wearing the No. 14 jersey.

He has obviously been offered more money in France...Both Racing and Grenoble have been linked. Munster are in the market for another centre now and have offered Eamonn Sheridan a contract but it looks like he is turning it down.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-rugby/exiles-centre-sheridan-ready-to-turn-down-munster-advances-30115360.html

by Sin é Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:32 am

Munster haven't attempted to keep him though. You'd think they would try. Its a bit mad alright that Sheridan prefers to stay with London Irish playing in the Amlin rather than move to Munster where he could be playing Heineken Cup and be in with a chance for Ireland!

I wonder is that because he would prefer to be a definite starter for London Irish than maybe benching for Earls in Munster in the big games!

Though, if you actually read that article there is no mention of Munster whatsoever (and anyway, he has another year on his contract with London Irish).

by majesticimperialman Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:38 am

The one person i would like too see more often in an Ireland shirt is Ian Madigan.

From what i have seen he will be a great replacement for Sexton. In case he gets injured or is out of form.

by LeinsterFan4life Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:50 am

Sin é wrote:Munster haven't attempted to keep him though. You'd think they would try. Its a bit mad alright that Sheridan prefers to stay with London Irish playing in the Amlin rather than move to Munster where he could be playing Heineken Cup and be in with a chance for Ireland!

I wonder is that because he would prefer to be a definite starter for London Irish than maybe benching for Earls in Munster in the big games!

Though, if you actually read that article there is no mention of Munster whatsoever (and anyway, he has another year on his contract with London Irish).

He probably wants to repay LI for giving him an opportunity of top level rugby. I'm sure he'll be back in Ireland to Leinster after the WC to replace Darcy though.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:05 am

I think the centres are probably going to be a combination of Marshall or Olding at 12 and Henshaw or Payne at 13.

I'd be pretty confident most other options will be redundant other than Fitzgerald (as he will be playing for Leinster there next year all things adding up).

Olding: has the distribution skills, footwork, vision, defense (tackle and positioning) and the physical attributes. Great player to have. Would be great to introduce him this summer but for injury.

Marshall: one of my favourites but needs to add more to his game. Direct running is great but needs to have more to his bow in my mind. Also needs to get a proper run of games.

Payne: has more natural talent than all others. Could be scuppered by not playing 13 up North even if he is the best player there. Would be a great choice.

Henshaw: I've a lot of faith in this lad. Could be excellent. Really strong and really defensively aware, pretty hard to take down too. Good skills but needs to expand his vision and decision making skills.

Others:
Fitz will come into the making due to playing there next year, very quick, elusive, runs the best lines along with Bowe, offloads well best defender in the outside backs.

Earls will hopefully stay as a winger. He is very fast and elusive. Tears weaker teams apart at 13 and looks really average against better teams there. Vision is questionable and he's a class 11.

by Sin é Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:58 am

Thing is Peat, Earls is playing at 14 for Munster. Zebo is Munster's 11 (and will remain so as he has a left boot).

by geoff998rugby Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:13 am

Sin é wrote:If that is the case, can you explain to me why Munster are not keeping Casey Laulala and they brought in Gerhardt van den Heever whose 5 starts for Munster have been wearing the No. 14 jersey.

Laulala hasn't been that good?
More money elsewhere?

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