The O'Classico- Leinster v Munster!

First topic message reminder :

LEINSTER

15. Rob Kearney
14. Fergus McFadden
13. Brian O'Driscoll
12. Gordon D'Arcy
11. Luke Fitzgerald
10. Ian Madigan
9. Eoin Reddan

1. Michael Bent
2. Richardt Strauss
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Kevin McLaughlin
7. Shane Jennings
8. Jamie Heaslip (c)

16. Sean Cronin
17. Jack O'Connell
18. Ed Byrne
19. Leo Cullen
20. Jordi Murphy
21. Isaac Boss
22. Jimmy Gopperth
23. Zane Kirchner

MUNSTER

15. Felix Jones
14. Keith Earls
13. Casey Laulala
12. Denis Hurley
11. Simon Zebo
10. Ian Keatley
9. Conor Murray

1. Dave Kilcoyne
2. Damien Varley
3. BJ Botha
4. Dave Foley
5. Paul O' Connell
6. Peter O'Mahony (c)
7. Tommy O'Donnell
8. James Coughlan

16. Duncan Casey
17. James Cronin
18. Alan Cotter
19. Donncha O'Callaghan
20. CJ Stander
21. Duncan Williams
22. JJ Hanrahan
23. Gerhard van den Heever

At Aviva Stadium, 7pm. Live on TG4

Referee: Alain Rolland
Assistant Referees: David Wilkinson, Michael Black (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Peter Ferguson (IRFU)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

Sounds scripted?

Look guns I'm being kind to you now...but sure continue on if you're a glutton for punishment

Are you getting angry? Get some rest. More banter tomorrow?

Not at all, you're only cheering me up..ill have to look at the second half tomorrow before I get angry...

Glad to assist. As Daire O'Brien would say, "go easy"!!

Ireland 22-18 2nd/3rd String.  Bless em for their effort, it was close. It was a day for tired 6-N winning men, to prove a point and that they did. Its getting far too easy now. Foley needs to make Munster boring and competitive again. Fancy stuff just doesn't suit em.

Ulster are not even flattering to deceive. My money is on the Universally hated Saffecens in the last Heino. 

Don't think Ulster and Munster will make it.Even though they are at home. 

We, are Leinster. 

We are playing the temp  Champs away. 

Believe

Is that Mary from Clontarf...
Howya Joe...

Tis. And we phhoked you culchies up da arse on half an effort. Even tho we saved our team for Toulon and... Frak,   we still won.

The sheer reality of it all must hurt Decco. Deeply.  

Love you. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmopROxBnBU

Ah shure...good luck next week..we will see you in de Aviva at some stage...like I said, if we get past Toulouse then how much would you bet against us...

ME-109 wrote:Ah shure...good luck next week..we will see you in de Aviva at some stage...

Oh Decco man, I dont even think I could handle that again. Me nerves. But, if we do, youré  buyin  me a pint,  ya contrary Cork phhokker.  Ja schatje ? 

I don't come on here much. But when I do, it soils me keyboard.

Leinster make me weh.  

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2wuQOkiZmOU

Delighted we got that win. Thought it was deserved as we were playing all the rugby. Our attack looked good on a lot of occasions and Reddan in particular was really very sharp. Our pack did really well considering some of the absentees and our defense was pretty solid.

Was glad to see Heaslip have such a good game and check out the power of Toner, knocking POC backwards on a few occasions, massive improvement from him.

Felt Rolland had a good game thb as Munster were really cynical at the breakdown in terms of rolling away. It was a weird sort of clash in that area of the field I thought; there wasn't much technical skill at the breakdown from either team. Munster in particular flooded there own rucks and just annihilated that area on their own ball. Really effective but it did mean they had less numbers in attack.

Felt Keatley was really impressive for Munster along with Botha.

ps: Jenno has some pace for an old lad doesn't he!

Looking back at the try, Zeebs may get a roasting for that one. :/

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Looking back at the try, Zeebs may get a roasting for that one. :/

Wasnt great defending from him. Lame effort.

Toner had O'Connell in his pocket all night. Zebo showed why he wasn't picked for Ireland...

Leinster were missing something in attack alright, probably Dave Kearney!

Well done ladies just about shaded a tight affair that was definitely lacking some intensity.

Disappointed that we didn't go for the corner with 4 minutes to go and take the win as our pack were on top for the last 15 minutes.

Munster set piece was very solid killer was the strongest prop on show. Leinster scrum didn't take take a step forward all night.

Our problem clearly lies in mid field where casey and Hurley couldn't break eggs let alone a line break! Zebo and earls very good considering the ball they were living off and again the best wingers on display.

Roll on next weekend and as we welcome Toulouse to Thomond Park.

BlueMuff wrote: Zebo and earls very good considering the ball they were living off and again the best wingers on display.

Think Schmidt will feel his Irish selection was validated. Zebo was exposed for Drico's try, simply didn't see it coming. You could see Schmidt's words have had an effect on him though, he was looking a lot more aggro in defence than usual.

Worried about Leinster, their attack is turning into Kidneyball mk 2. A lot of running across he pitch and falling apart after 3 of 4 phases.

I'm worried about the wider attack, it's working but not very effectively. I really like the narrow attack of the area around the breakdown, Reddan was class at this last night. He was really on top of varying the game around that part of the pitch.

Yeah he had one of his good games, beautiful little inside flick to Cronin in the second half.

I don't think our back play is clever enough considering our generally small midflied. MOC's has his own style, and that fine - but i think it would benefit hugely from having a big carrier at 12, then whip it out to the magic men. Drico seemed to be carrying that role of late, and doing rather well making inroads- but we're losing him, so time to plan.

Enormous by even Welsh Standards, Peter Robb may be worth investing a bit of time into. Only 18, 6'3'' and weighing in at 104kgs. Hasn't shown a great deal skill wise yet though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2YG3yjZ2Ps

kunu wrote:Yeah he had one of his good games,  beautiful little inside flick to Cronin in the second half.

I don't think our back play is clever enough considering our generally small midflied. MOC's has his own style, and that fine - but i think it would benefit hugely from having a big carrier at 12, then whip it out to the magic men. Drico seemed to be carrying that role of late, and doing rather well making inroads- but we're losing him, so time to plan.

Enormous by even Welsh Standards, Peter Robb may be worth investing a bit of time into. Only 18, 6'3'' and weighing in at 104kgs. Hasn't shown a great deal skill wise yet though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2YG3yjZ2Ps

Hows Jordan Coughlan doing in the academy? He is 108Kg.
Tom Daly is 100Kg.
Tom Farrell is 97Kg.
Thats their weight off the Leinster website. They're in the academy so that could change.

Compared to the 91Kg of D'Arcy those lads would add a bit of power to the center. They're also younger than him.
BOD 93Kg
Reid 90Kg
Macken 95Kg is the current heavyweight in Leinster.

For Ireland we have a big direct runner at 12 (with a creative side) in Luke Marshall. He is shorter than some of those guys but he is 96kg and always seems to make good ground. I think Ireland in general need an option like that either at 12 or 13.

On topic regarding Leinster though, who played 13 when BOD went off?

Leinstee usually never show their backline moves before a HC game so I would wait until next week to judge our backs.

Even in the HC game against Northampton none of our scores were really built. All came from unrelenting pressure and speed (bar Heaslips try which was well worked.) Other than that it resembled one of Ireland's once off performances under Kidney, with tempo and aggression just breaking the opposition to pieces.

McFadden played 13 when Drico went off.

Mickado wrote:Toner had O'Connell in his pocket all night. Zebo showed why he wasn't picked for Ireland...

Didn't Munster steal 3 Leinster lineouts?   

All that game showed is that Rolland has stayed a season too long and his inconsistencies in reffing the game are similar to Schmidt reasoning inconsistencies in picking the Ireland team.

We also learned that Schmidt rates POM so highly that he is prepared to play him half fit. Not a chance he will be moved out of the 15 for when Ferris & SOB are both fit.

POM was still not fit to play for Munster having picked up his injury in the England game (i think) missing the Italian and used in the French game. Hopefully he will be fit for Toulouse next week.

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:Toner had O'Connell in his pocket all night. Zebo showed why he wasn't picked for Ireland...

Didn't Munster steal 3 Leinster lineouts?   

All that game showed is that Rolland has stayed a season too long and his inconsistencies in reffing the game are similar to Schmidt reasoning inconsistencies in picking the Ireland team.

We also learned that Schmidt rates POM so highly that he is prepared to play him half fit. Not a chance he will be moved out of the 15 for when Ferris & SOB are both fit.

POM was still not fit to play for Munster having picked up his injury in the England game (i think) missing the Italian and used in the French game. Hopefully he will be fit for Toulouse next week.

IF SOB is fit he starts everytime. He is one of the best flankers in the world.

Couldnt be bothered reading through all the posts since last night. Just finished watching the second half as I missed it. I would just like to say that Alain Rolland is a cheating see you next tuesday.....that is all.

kunu wrote:

BlueMuff wrote: Zebo and earls very good considering the ball they were living off and again the best wingers on display.

Think Schmidt will feel his Irish selection was validated. Zebo was exposed for Drico's try, simply didn't see it coming. You could see Schmidt's words have had an effect on him though, he was looking a lot more aggro in defence than usual.

Worried about Leinster, their attack is turning into Kidneyball mk 2. A lot of running across he pitch and falling apart after 3 of 4 phases.

What kind of a f...ing idiot are you...exposed for Drico;s try....what effing game were you watching..

ME-109 wrote:Couldnt be bothered reading through all the posts since last night. Just finished watching the second half as I missed it. I would just like to say that Alain Rolland is a cheating see you next tuesday.....that is all.

True, he should have carded "Killer" earlier and probably shown one or two more cards to the lads in red. Lying all over every breakdown.

Toner putting POC on his arse was my highlight.

Mickado wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Couldnt be bothered reading through all the posts since last night. Just finished watching the second half as I missed it. I would just like to say that Alain Rolland is a cheating see you next tuesday.....that is all.

True, he should have carded "Killer" earlier and probably shown one or two more cards to the lads in red. Lying all over every breakdown.

Toner putting POC on his arse was my highlight.

Must be great all right winning with the help of the ref....kept you in the game in the first half and started making things up as he went along in the second...

Was Toner playing...didnt notice him...

ME-109 wrote:

Mickado wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Couldnt be bothered reading through all the posts since last night. Just finished watching the second half as I missed it. I would just like to say that Alain Rolland is a cheating see you next tuesday.....that is all.

True, he should have carded "Killer" earlier and probably shown one or two more cards to the lads in red. Lying all over every breakdown.

Toner putting POC on his arse was my highlight.

Must be great all right winning with the help of the ref....kept you in the game in the first half and started making things up as he went along in the second...

Was Toner playing...didnt notice him...

Actually on reflection I am incorrect. Rolland is not a cheat. He is what he is...which is a former leinster player and supporter...

The RTE panel tore Rollands performance to shreds today. Former Leinster player Bernard Jackman in particular was unimpressed with some of the decisions that went against Munster.

If Rolland had been at the Bent/Botha side of the scrum then every penalty would have been to Munster. But Kilcoyne couldn't just behave himself at the other side. That allowed Ross to engineer t_it for tat penalties on their side with Rolland paying attentiont to both. Kilcoyne should have been smarter than that and have been confident enough to hold things on an even keel at this side in order to force Rolland to the other side of the scrum where Munster were making hay but not drawing attention to it correctly. Naive is probably a polite description of it.

Both Madigan and Keatley had early nerves but settled into the game well.

These two sides know each other too well for the game to be any kind of blow out.

Some nice pictures of POC and BOD after the game, BOD looking a bit hazy up at POC, most likely still not fully aware of anything after POC had choked him down the havelock end, giving him a rabbit punch in the back of the head for good measure. Medical team should have taken him off there and then, but he played on for a couple of minutes before they managed to take him off. Am I right in thinking it took McFadden to go over to him and tell him to leave the field? The medic was trying to push him off the pitch but BOD was refusing to go. It's great having heart and the warrior spirit but there is a bit of that with BOD, especially late in his career, that doesn't set a good example for others. It might have been (and probably was) concussion, but will it be handled that way or called what it should be. I'm guessing they just say he got a 'knock' and will be fine for next week.

Most important part of the weekend was that both sides got a really good, high intensity outing and should be in a good mindset for the games this coming weekend. Also, no major injuries or knocks have been reported.

Also hope that both coaches were holding their tactics for next week back, because very little of was used at the weekend would work against a Toulouse or Toulon.

I thought Munster were comfortably the better side but nice to see Drico get the winning try.

In particular the Munster pack made mincemeat of the Ireland...sorry Leinster tight 5....

I hope all this hype about Zebo ends now though - McFadden totally dominated him, and we all know how rubbish he is .....

profitius wrote:The RTE panel tore Rollands performance to shreds today. Former Leinster player Bernard Jackman in particular was unimpressed with some of the decisions that went against Munster.

It is definitely an anti-Munster conspiracy.

rodders wrote:I thought Munster were comfortably the better side but nice to see Drico get the winning try.

In particular the Munster pack made mincemeat of the Ireland...sorry Leinster tight 5....
I hope all this hype about Zebo ends now though - McFadden totally dominated him, and we all know how rubbish he is .....

I know you are joking but Bent, Strauss and McCarthy didnt feature in the six nations. It was always going to be tough with Healy and McGrath missing.

Zebo was fine but did little to suggest Schmidt was incorrect not to select him.

This match also confirms my long held suspicion that Munster will be the only Irish side in the last 4 of the heino - the wheels have fallen off at Ulster - and are my dark horse pick to win the title (or else lose in the final.. ).

rodders wrote:This match also confirms my long held suspicion that Munster will be the only Irish side in the last 4 of the heino - the wheels have fallen off at Ulster - and are my dark horse pick to win the title (or else lose in the final.. ).  

You fancy Munster to beat Toulouse and then defeat Toulon away? If they do that, and Ulster aren't making the final then I would fancy Munster against Tigers, Saracens or Clermont.

rodders wrote:This match also confirms my long held suspicion that Munster will be the only Irish side in the last 4 of the heino - the wheels have fallen off at Ulster - and are my dark horse pick to win the title (or else lose in the final.. ).  

You must have missed the Munster Treviso game. I reckon Toulouse are going to win in Thomond park. Munster have come together reasonably well this year but in knock out rugby they dont have too many game changers.

Toulouse by contrast have a good few and are playing very well. Picamoles, Huget, Medard, Fickou, Clerc, Gear, Poitrenau etc. They just have too much class for Munster.

Id be surprised if Ulster lost their quarter. Leinster will have a tough time en France.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

rodders wrote:This match also confirms my long held suspicion that Munster will be the only Irish side in the last 4 of the heino - the wheels have fallen off at Ulster - and are my dark horse pick to win the title (or else lose in the final.. ).  

You fancy Munster to beat Toulouse and then defeat Toulon away?  If they do that, and Ulster aren't making the final then I would fancy Munster against Tigers, Saracens or Clermont.

Yeah I do actually.

I can't see Leinster beating Toulon - their pack will get dominated and I don't think they have enough in attack to hurt Toulon if they can't get an edge in the pack. Sorry. It will be one of their greatest wins if they can pull it off though.

Everything I've seen of Ulster and Saracens over the past few months points to a Saracens win unfortunately. Maybe the Ravenhill factor can bring something special out of us but on form this one is a one horse race. Saracens are in red hot form and Ulster look to be running out of steam.

Munster look best place to progress imo -they have a decent pack again and plenty of pace in the backs. They also seem to have a bit of the old chip about them so I think they are real dark horses.

GunsGerms wrote:

profitius wrote:The RTE panel tore Rollands performance to shreds today. Former Leinster player Bernard Jackman in particular was unimpressed with some of the decisions that went against Munster.

It is definitely an anti-Munster conspiracy.

Probably worth remembering that Jackman and Co are paid to come up with talking points, and there wasn't much else to talk about. Rolland definitely favoured Leinster, but the examples they came up with were weak enough.

They claimed Madigan not rolling away was a yellow, but there's a case for himself thinking he had held the tackler up for a maul, (which he half did alongside Kearney) so he thought he could fall wherever he wanted - was still very much a penalty, but enough doubt to prevent a yellow.

The other ruck infringement they highlighted was just sloppy competing when Leinster had a legitimate chance of winning back the ball. Laulala had run into 2 Leinster tacklers and would have lost it had Leinster got their positioning right. Either way, they got a warning for it, as did Munster for their infringements.

What's this all about then...?

Spoiler:

rodders wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

rodders wrote:This match also confirms my long held suspicion that Munster will be the only Irish side in the last 4 of the heino - the wheels have fallen off at Ulster - and are my dark horse pick to win the title (or else lose in the final.. ).  

You fancy Munster to beat Toulouse and then defeat Toulon away?  If they do that, and Ulster aren't making the final then I would fancy Munster against Tigers, Saracens or Clermont.

Yeah I do actually.

I can't see Leinster beating Toulon - their pack will get dominated and I don't think they have enough in attack to hurt Toulon if they can't get an edge in the pack. Sorry. It will be one of their greatest wins if they can pull it off though.

Everything I've seen of Ulster and Saracens over the past few months points to a Saracens win unfortunately. Maybe the Ravenhill factor can bring something special out of us but on form this one is a one horse race. Saracens are in red hot form and Ulster look to be running out of steam.

Munster look best place to progress imo -they have a decent pack again and plenty of pace in the backs. They also seem to have a bit of the old chip about them so I think they are real dark horses.

I reckon you are right on the Toulon match. I think they are 7-10 point favourites in my eyes. They don't play great as a team but they have great individuals and with JW they have someone who will keep them in the right part of the park, get them points, keep the scoreboard ticking over. Also, S Armitage is a beast and will probably keep the Leinster backrow in check.

I know Ulster haven't been great the last while but this is the year for the HC for them. Afoa, Muller need to man up, they are approaching a cliff for this squad makeup and that should be all the motivation they need. I reckon Ulster by 10-12 points.

Toulouse are going through this year what Munster were going through last year in trying to rebuild and cope with aging talismen. Munster by 5-8 points.

If ASM were playing Tigers in a final, I'd pick Leicester, but at this stage of the competition the gremlins aren't in ASM heads and they are at home. Has to be ASM but I reckon 3-8 point margin.

I can't see anything other than home wins all round. I know that there is usually 1 upset, but then I go through each of the games and ultimately get back to home wins.

Mickado wrote:What's this all about then...?

Spoiler:

Nothing I'd imagine. Why is it though that Munster always have dicipline issues when they play Leinster?

Steffan Armitage is grossly over rated. Journeyman player. Would be much more concerned about other Toulon players or the size of their pack as a whole.

GunsGerms wrote:Steffan Armitage is grossly over rated. Journeyman player. Would be much more concerned about other Toulon players or the size of their pack as a whole.

  

One thing I'd say is Leinster have some good players to come back in - Healy, Cronin and Ruddock will all add something extra. They could be doing with O'Brien for this one though.

rodders wrote:One thing I'd say is Leinster have some good players to come back in - Healy, Cronin and Ruddock will all add something extra. They could be doing with O'Brien for this one though.

If they had Rolland reffing it would be a cert...