Ulster vs Saracens - HC quarter final - Saturday, 5th April 6:30pm

First topic message reminder :

Ulster vs Saracens.

Saturday 5th April at 6:30pm

First game at a newly renovated Ravenhill I believe with a new capacity of 18,000.

Ulster are currently 3rd in the Pro12 and won all their pool stages in the HC, including impressive away wins vs Leicester and Montpellier.

They have a few Irish players who were involved in the title winning 6 nations like Best and Trimble. Trimble in particular had a very good tournament.

Close to full strength in terms of their squad.

According to Ulster fans their current form hasn't been great but I take that firmly with a pinch of salt. Their latest result - a loss to Cardiff could shake any sense of complacency.


Saracens are currently the league leaders in the AP with a healthy 7 point gap off 2nd placed Saints. Just 2 losses in the AP in 18 matches which contrasts with their two losses in the pool stages of the HC. Saracens are currently the top try scorers in the AP and were top try scorers in the HC pool stages. Form wise Saracens have been comfortable without really putting in a notable performance.

Notable clashes

Best vs Brits - the Irish hooker vs the flamboyant South African who plays more like a centre - will be key in getting their teams into good positions.

Muller vs Borthwick - skipper vs skipper - both will be key in inspiring their sides.

Jackson vs Farrell - the 2nd choice Irish 10 vs the current England 10 - both will be expected to boss the game and take any opportunities and points on offer



Ulster team

15. J Payne
14. A Trimble
13. D Cave
12. L Marshall
11.T Bowe
10. P Jackson
9. R Pienaar

1. T Court
2.R Best
3. J Afoa
4.J Muller (C)
5.D Tuohy
6.R Wilson
7.N Williams
8.C Henry

16. R Herring
17.A Warwick
18.R Lutton
19.I Henderson
20.S Ferris
21.R Diack
22.P Marshall
23.C Gilroy






Saracens team



15. Alex Goode
14. Chris Ashton
13. Duncan Taylor
12. Brad Barritt
11. David Strettle
10. Owen Farrell
9. Richard Wigglesworth

1. Mako Vunipola
2. Schalk Brits
3. James Johnston
4. Steve Borthwick ©
5. Mouritz Botha
6. Billy Vunipola
7. Jacques Burger
8. Ernst Joubert

16. Jamie George
17. Richard Barrington
18. Matt Stevens
19. Eoin Sheriff
20. Kelly Brown
21. Neil de Kock
22. Charlie Hodgson
23. Chris Wyles


Thoughts?

beshocked wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I see Francios Piennar will be at the match supporting Saracens. He is in Dublin today/tomorrow.

Did you know that Edward Griffiths was CEO of SARFU during the 1995 RWC? He is one who came up with the phrase "one team, one country".

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/rugby/man-who-helped-unite-south-africa-through-rugby-is-now-trying-to-work-his-magic-with-saracens.19135176

Him and Francois Pienaar wrote a book together in 1999.

Probably partly Pienaar's influence that saw Edward Griffiths made Saracens CEO.

Piennar is on the Saracens board isnt he? He also played for and coached Saracens in the past.

Sports Guru is a free prediction game.

I don't bet on rugby.

Although I might have a flutter of £2 e-w on some donkey at about 12-14/1 in the National just for old times sake.

Or the number of dead donkeys after the race if there's a book on that.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Believe me there are a few true tubes that you will always find at Ravenhill but the vast majority of people you'll experience at Ravers on matchday are A1 folks.
The biggest Ulster twit I experienced was on an away trip to Cardiff. He was an embarrassment to the Ulster shirt and happened to be sitting beside us at the match, stayed at our hotel and far too close on the plane home. There certainly is always one.

Anyway, on a lighter note I just visited the bookies to make my yearly punt on the horseys and laid a tenner on all the Irish sides to win at the weekend. Just to add some spice

In a patriotically-perverse way, I have all the Irish teams to lose and Tigers to win at C-F on SG.  

Well the best of luck to us both Portnoys. One of us is doomed to dire failure

Gunsgerms yes Pienaar is on the Saracens board.

Pete unfortunately it's more likely that results will go down the middle. I don't think all the Irish teams will win but nor do I think they will all lose.


Saracens side to face Ulster Rugby;
15. Alex Goode; 14. Chris Ashton, 13. Duncan Taylor, 12. Brad Barritt, 11. David Strettle ; 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Richard Wigglesworth; 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Schalk Brits, 3. James Johnston, 4. Steve Borthwick ©, 5. Mouritz Botha, 6. Billy Vunipola, 7. Jacques Burger, 8. Ernst Joubert.
Replacements; 16. Jamie George, 17. Richard Barrington, 18. Matt Stevens, 19. Eoin Sheriff, 20. Kelly Brown, 21. Neil de Kock, 22. Charlie Hodgson, 23. Chris Wyles.

http://www.saracens.com/saracens-name-side-to-face-ulster/


The big news is that Billy Vunipola is starting at 6. The bad news is that George Kruis and Joel Tomkins are out for the season. Losing Kruis is a particularly frustating blow.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/1383/Pienaar-back-for-Ulster-to-face-Saracens-.aspx

Ulster XV and replacements to face Saracens, Heineken Cup Quarter-Final, Ravenhill, Saturday 5th April (kick off 18:30) (15-9): J Payne, A Trimble, D Cave, L Marshall, T Bowe, P Jackson, R Pienaar; (1-8): T Court, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (Captain), D Tuohy, R Wilson, N Williams, C Henry; Replacements (16-23): R Herring, A Warwick, R Lutton, I Henderson, S Ferris, R Diack, P Marshall, C Gilroy.

As expected.

We need Henderson, Ferris and Diack to make an impact in the second half.

Can only afford one injury from 10 to 15.
Above all else pray Court and Pienaer stay fit we do not have adequate cover in either position

Pete330v2 wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Believe me there are a few true tubes that you will always find at Ravenhill but the vast majority of people you'll experience at Ravers on matchday are A1 folks.
The biggest Ulster twit I experienced was on an away trip to Cardiff. He was an embarrassment to the Ulster shirt and happened to be sitting beside us at the match, stayed at our hotel and far too close on the plane home. There certainly is always one.

Anyway, on a lighter note I just visited the bookies to make my yearly punt on the horseys and laid a tenner on all the Irish sides to win at the weekend. Just to add some spice

In a patriotically-perverse way, I have all the Irish teams to lose and Tigers to win at C-F on SG.  

Well the best of luck to us both Portnoys. One of us is doomed to dire failure

Well the form book says that only one away team wins in the QFs, Pete.

I reckon that this year that the Sarries and Toulose will buck the trend.
Not the Tigers though (with my head screwed on) sadly...   

Im pleased to see Brown on the bench truth be told but I don't know a lot about Joubert. Im a bit more confident looking at the teamsheets but Sarries always strike me as a team that maximises their talents whereas we can be more inconsistent. Very very hard to call. If you offered me lucky, 1 point win now I would bite your hand off for it!

Brown has been low on confidence and form since Scotland have been messing him around.

One of Joubert's main strengths is in the lineout. Joubert has been a consistent presence for Saracens in the backrow.

In regards to Billy being back - I just hope he's not been rushed into action. If not then him and his brother should be able to give us some much needed powerful ball carrying to tie in defenders.

No real surprises bar the injury to Kruis and the return of Billy.

I like our bench.

Vunipolas a massive boost for sarries. Very good player.

Beshocked hows Eoin Sheriff been playing? I heard hes out of contract soon.(?)

beshocked, is Gill still injured or has he fallen behind Barrington in the pecking order while injured. I remember him being on the bench during the 6 Nations and thought he was on his way back.

Heart says Ulster by 8, head says Sarries by 5.

Other games to go to the home team.

No chance Toulouse win at Thomond park Portnoy old bean. More chance of a 100-1 donkey winning the national.

Foinavon it is then...

rodders wrote:Heart says Ulster by 8, head says Sarries by 5.

Other games to go to the home team.

No chance Toulouse win at Thomond park Portnoy old bean. More chance of a 100-1 donkey winning the national.

I think Toulouse will win. Your analogy isnt a good one Rodders as outsiders sometimes win the national.

Mon Mome in '09 Portnoy.

With Beauxis at 10? I think not.

Two strong teams, so no excuses. Feeling slightly more positive about an Ulster win.
I hope the travelling army of Sarries fans have a great time in Ulster, and are treated to the best of Ulster hospitality, which is second to none.

I also hope we demolish the Saracens. I want blood, sweat and tears. Ulster sweat, Saracen blood, and Saracen tears, preferably those of Farrell and Ashton   

It was a good analogy guns....Munster are the donkeys not Toulouse....

Haha.

Hammerofthunor unsure if Gill is injured or not. Barrington would be my 2nd choice anyway.

Golden can't really say - I don't think he's had any first team rugby. Could be in a bit of trouble if we lose one of our locks to injury as two - Kruis and Hargreaves are out now.

Sherriff is our 5th choice lock.

Is it me or is there more than the normal posturing about all of these HEC QFs?

I reckon that none of the games is confidently predictable.

The Tigers' thread is as dead as a dodo.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Is it me or is there more than the normal posturing about all of these HEC QFs?

I reckon that none of the games is confidently predictable.

The Tigers' thread is as dead as a dodo.

Doubt there are too many Clermont fans around. I saw that Cockerel described Clermont as the French Leicester. Bit of an stretch based on recent form?

I cant predict any with any certainty however, I think Leicester have the toughest assignment.

It depends on what exactly he meant by 'French Leicester'. Does it host the French Space Centre?

Portnoy's complaint you might generate some more interest if you create a Clermont vs Leicester thread. I am sure some neutrals would give their thoughts.

Equally a Munster vs Toulouse thread could be created to generate some discussion there.

He meant that Montferand is an industrial town, not overly popular with visitors and the club have a devoted working class following. He stated (as an ex player for both teams) that playing at Stade Marcel-Michelin was not dissimilar to playing in front of the WR faithful.

He was not talking about performances.

Fair nuff.

BTW that does not look the most mobile back row for Ulster. Sarries will be looking to get the edge at the breakdown. Absence of Hargreaves or Kruis is a major blow, as Botha is not good enough for this level any more.

We should have picked Diack instead of Williams.

That said, the second half back row of Ferris, Henry and Diack is very mobile indeed. Knowing that two of our back rows only have to give about 50 minutes is comforting.

I can see Diack coming on at Lock with Wilson switching to 8 to accommodate Ferris either. Not sure how fit either second row is and wouldn't be surprised to see neither do 80min.

I agree with Rodders I think both Locks will come off with Williams; rather than 2 backrowers and 1 lock

Londontiger I agree. Disappointed Kruis is injured. It's 2nd row where Ulster could target us.

Good thing about Brown on the bench is that he can cover all three backrow positions to a decent standard.

I believe this Saracens team is good enough to win - whether they will. Tough to say - Ulster will start as favourites and deservedly so.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Is it me or is there more than the normal posturing about all of these HEC QFs?

I reckon that none of the games is confidently predictable.

The Tigers' thread is as dead as a dodo.

Cant see Leicester winning in Clermont but I agree the other 3 are very tight.

Get the feeling Toulouse are missing one to many players and that makes Munster favourites
Leinster have avery tough ask
I reckon Ravenhill will be the closest call

My spread bets are:

Clermont by 12
Munster by 7
Toulon by 5
Ulster by 2

Geoff I think that's intelligent betting.

GunsGerms wrote:SARACENS FLANKER KELLY BROWN has joked that Irish rugby supporters are often fired up and boisterous ‘because they’re normally drunk’

The Scotland captain made the remark on Saracens’ weekly video insight into life at the Premiership club. Really clever comment Kelly.

Maybe he's speaking from personal experience - his dad's an Ulsterman.

The two best performances against Leicester this season were Ulster at Welford Road (in a match that was near Test Match intensity) and Saracens at Allianz.


As a Tigers fan, I know better than anyone how well Ulster can play at Revenhill. Having seen a lot of both teams in recent years, I believe that Saracens are the better team but that at home Ulster will win.

He's not terribly wrong about that, Kelly Brown.

Notch wrote:He's not terribly wrong about that, Kelly Brown.

They are no more fond of booze than any other English speaking fans. Just a silly stereotype.

GunsGerms wrote:

Notch wrote:He's not terribly wrong about that, Kelly Brown.

They are no more fond of booze than any other English speaking fans. Just a silly stereotype.

On the Promenade at Ravenhill they're pretty fond of it, and it certainly loosens up the vocal cords. I imagine it's not much different in France or England if travelling fans are anything to go by but I think our lot could drink 'em all dry.

Really can't call this game. Massively looking forward to it though and think Ulster might just nick it being at home. Teams are evenly matched for me, maybe Pienaar will make the difference if given the platform by his forwards.

I've read on here the reasons for the Ulster bench but not matter how you look at it they have 3 players who's preferred position is 6 on there - seems pretty unbalanced, especially if you pick up injuries elsewhere and the guys in the second row have to soldier on for the full 80.

I wouldn't agree with that. Henderson has played more rugby at lock than blindside and Diack has played every position from 4 to 8- his move to 6 is very recent, he spent most of his career at 8. Roger Wilson is also an 8 playing at 6. I wouldn't see either player as a specialist blindside, especially Henderson who will be a lock long term and short term. The only back row players in that squad who really don't play any other position are Ferris and Williams.

I'd actually suggest we're pretty likely to see Diack and Henderson both come on and play in the second row with Ferris coming on for Williams and Henry and Wilson plying the full 80.

Nice wee "posh" version of Stand Up, including a Liam Neeson-esque performance from Willie John McBride at the end...

https://youtu.be/bTiqlcjTo1s

Notch wrote:I wouldn't agree with that. Henderson has played more rugby at lock than blindside and Diack has played every position from 4 to 8- his move to 6 is very recent, he spent most of his career at 8. Roger Wilson is also an 8 playing at 6. I wouldn't see either player as a specialist blindside, especially Henderson who will be a lock long term and short term. The only back row players in that squad who really don't play any other position are Ferris and Williams.

I'd actually suggest we're pretty likely to see Diack and Henderson both come on and play in the second row with Ferris coming on for Williams and Henry and Wilson plying the full 80.

Fair enough, I didn't realise that Diack was anything other than a 6 who could cover lock. I know Henderson is going to end up in the second row but he stated during the 6N that his favoured position is 6. Being a Saints fan I know about Wilson being an 8 although I always felt he had more of a skill set suited to 6 (Saints had a squad packed with 6's and limited 8's at the time so it wasn't an option) so I wasn't surprised when I saw him start appearing there when Williams was playing 8.

Always felt that Ferris would have made a brilliant ball carrying beast of an 8 when he was at his absolute best.

B91212 wrote:

Notch wrote:I wouldn't agree with that. Henderson has played more rugby at lock than blindside and Diack has played every position from 4 to 8- his move to 6 is very recent, he spent most of his career at 8. Roger Wilson is also an 8 playing at 6. I wouldn't see either player as a specialist blindside, especially Henderson who will be a lock long term and short term. The only back row players in that squad who really don't play any other position are Ferris and Williams.

I'd actually suggest we're pretty likely to see Diack and Henderson both come on and play in the second row with Ferris coming on for Williams and Henry and Wilson plying the full 80.

Fair enough, I didn't realise that Diack was anything other than a 6 who could cover lock. I know Henderson is going to end up in the second row but he stated during the 6N that his favoured position is 6. Being a Saints fan I know about Wilson being an 8 although I always felt he had more of a skill set suited to 6 (Saints had a squad packed with 6's and limited 8's at the time so it wasn't an option) so I wasn't surprised when I saw him start appearing there when Williams was playing 8.

Always felt that Ferris would have made a brilliant ball carrying beast of an 8 when he was at his absolute best.

To confuse things further, I think Henderson would make a great 8 (think that's where he grew up playing)

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:Nice wee "posh" version of Stand Up, including a Liam Neeson-esque performance from Willie John McBride at the end...

https://youtu.be/bTiqlcjTo1s

Cool video. Love it.

toml wrote:

B91212 wrote:

Notch wrote:I wouldn't agree with that. Henderson has played more rugby at lock than blindside and Diack has played every position from 4 to 8- his move to 6 is very recent, he spent most of his career at 8. Roger Wilson is also an 8 playing at 6. I wouldn't see either player as a specialist blindside, especially Henderson who will be a lock long term and short term. The only back row players in that squad who really don't play any other position are Ferris and Williams.

I'd actually suggest we're pretty likely to see Diack and Henderson both come on and play in the second row with Ferris coming on for Williams and Henry and Wilson plying the full 80.

Fair enough, I didn't realise that Diack was anything other than a 6 who could cover lock. I know Henderson is going to end up in the second row but he stated during the 6N that his favoured position is 6. Being a Saints fan I know about Wilson being an 8 although I always felt he had more of a skill set suited to 6 (Saints had a squad packed with 6's and limited 8's at the time so it wasn't an option) so I wasn't surprised when I saw him start appearing there when Williams was playing 8.

Always felt that Ferris would have made a brilliant ball carrying beast of an 8 when he was at his absolute best.

To confuse things further, I think Henderson would make a great 8 (think that's where he grew up playing)

So much for me thinking you basically had three 6's on the bench. Can any of them cover the front row or half-back too 

Ferris played 8 on the Ireland tour to Argentina before the 07 RWC and was looking really good until he got injured...

No 7&1/2 wrote:As long as the cucumber sandwiches cut into triangles with the crusts off are available they'll never silence us.

Poetry. Sheer poetry mo chara. Like what this guy was.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7ljVWwAHIY

SUFTUM.

Believe.

So rugby fans like a beer before and during the game - maybe even after.   

SUFTUM C'mon Ulster We are with you dudes

I am soooooooo flippin nervous today, lets hope it will be a day to remember.
Added to that a mate calls with me last night offering me a ticket and a lift down to the match with another mate all for free because he had to work. What an offer andhow gutting I had to say thanks but no thanks aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh..........I could almost taste the crepes.

SUFTUM !!!!

Pete - yer mad.

Com on Sarries!!

Big game..