Aviva Premiership Round 20
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: Club Rugby
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Aviva Premiership Round 20
Table:
Fixtures:
Fri 18th Apr 14
19:45 Harlequins v Leicester Tigers BT Sport
Sat 19th Apr 14
15:00 Bath Rugby v Worcester Warriors
15:00 Exeter Chiefs v Sale Sharks
15:15 London Wasps v Gloucester Rugby BT Sport
Sun 20th Apr 14
14:00 Northampton Saints v London Irish BT Sport
15:00 Newcastle Falcons v Saracens
Pos | Team | __Pld__ | __Won__ | _Drawn_ | _Lost_ | __For__ | _Against_ | __TF__ | __TA__ | __TBP__ | __LBP__ | __Pts__ |
1 | Saracens | 19 | 17 | 0 | 2 | 535 | 284 | 56 | 30 | 8 | 0 | 76 |
2 | Northampton Saints | 19 | 14 | 1 | 4 | 475 | 297 | 55 | 25 | 5 | 3 | 66 |
3 | Leicester Tigers | 19 | 13 | 2 | 4 | 449 | 357 | 47 | 32 | 5 | 2 | 63 |
4 | Bath Rugby | 19 | 13 | 1 | 5 | 428 | 330 | 42 | 33 | 3 | 2 | 59 |
5 | Harlequins | 19 | 12 | 0 | 7 | 364 | 300 | 36 | 28 | 3 | 3 | 54 |
6 | Sale Sharks | 19 | 11 | 0 | 8 | 335 | 323 | 33 | 29 | 2 | 5 | 51 |
7 | Exeter Chiefs | 19 | 8 | 0 | 11 | 362 | 382 | 33 | 38 | 2 | 6 | 40 |
8 | London Wasps | 19 | 7 | 0 | 12 | 356 | 391 | 35 | 37 | 2 | 9 | 39 |
9 | Gloucester Rugby | 19 | 7 | 0 | 12 | 345 | 443 | 34 | 48 | 2 | 7 | 37 |
10 | London Irish | 19 | 6 | 0 | 13 | 323 | 402 | 30 | 37 | 1 | 6 | 31 |
11 | Newcastle Falcons | 19 | 3 | 0 | 16 | 212 | 454 | 15 | 51 | 1 | 6 | 19 |
12 | Worcester Warriors | 19 | 1 | 0 | 18 | 257 | 478 | 22 | 50 | 1 | 7 | 12 |
Fixtures:
Fri 18th Apr 14
19:45 Harlequins v Leicester Tigers BT Sport
Sat 19th Apr 14
15:00 Bath Rugby v Worcester Warriors
15:00 Exeter Chiefs v Sale Sharks
15:15 London Wasps v Gloucester Rugby BT Sport
Sun 20th Apr 14
14:00 Northampton Saints v London Irish BT Sport
15:00 Newcastle Falcons v Saracens
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Harlequins v Leicester Tigers
Round 20 starts with a real humdinger, as the last two champions meet in what is a vital fixture for both sides. Victory for Leicester and they seal a play-off spot and keep the pressure on Saints in the chase for the second home semi. Quins however know that anything other than a win will all but end their domestic title hopes.
Leicester are unbeaten in the AP in 2014 and have started to score tries. The form of Niki Goneva allied to the return of Manu Tuilagi has given the back line power, pace and precision. Each week more injured players are returning and being re-integrated into the side, though a potential problem is brewing on the tighthead. Logo Mulipola has been struggling with a calf for quite some time, and lasted little more than 10 minutes at the weekend. Owen Willimas will be expected to bounce back from a less assured performance of late to keep the team moving forward and punish any Quins transgressions. As he showed in Montferrand – he has a big boot, as well as a lot of skill.
Quins form has been a little up and down – not helped by injuries and international duty. They seem to be finding their game again as the season draws to a close – but is it too late. The better performances have come of the back of strong performances from the front row (is Marler going to be fit), Nick Easter and the big lumps in the centre (oh yeah and the Robshaw/Care/Brown return). Will COS keep JTH and Molenaar together. It has worked, but could be meat abd drink to a Leicester defensive line that prefers facing lumps to little tricksters.
With Ben Youngs returning to some semblance of form, the head to head with Danny Care is worth the admission price alone.
Cannot wait.
Round 20 starts with a real humdinger, as the last two champions meet in what is a vital fixture for both sides. Victory for Leicester and they seal a play-off spot and keep the pressure on Saints in the chase for the second home semi. Quins however know that anything other than a win will all but end their domestic title hopes.
Leicester are unbeaten in the AP in 2014 and have started to score tries. The form of Niki Goneva allied to the return of Manu Tuilagi has given the back line power, pace and precision. Each week more injured players are returning and being re-integrated into the side, though a potential problem is brewing on the tighthead. Logo Mulipola has been struggling with a calf for quite some time, and lasted little more than 10 minutes at the weekend. Owen Willimas will be expected to bounce back from a less assured performance of late to keep the team moving forward and punish any Quins transgressions. As he showed in Montferrand – he has a big boot, as well as a lot of skill.
Quins form has been a little up and down – not helped by injuries and international duty. They seem to be finding their game again as the season draws to a close – but is it too late. The better performances have come of the back of strong performances from the front row (is Marler going to be fit), Nick Easter and the big lumps in the centre (oh yeah and the Robshaw/Care/Brown return). Will COS keep JTH and Molenaar together. It has worked, but could be meat abd drink to a Leicester defensive line that prefers facing lumps to little tricksters.
With Ben Youngs returning to some semblance of form, the head to head with Danny Care is worth the admission price alone.
Cannot wait.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Bath Rugby v Worcester Warriors
It will be interesting to see what fall out there is for Bath following Saturday’s shenanigans. What they do know is that yet again they could well be in a real scrap. Worcester are not technically relegated – but need a win. Not good enough to get it as Bath are too strong up front and have too much pace and invention in the backs.
However – Bath have shown this season a worrying (for their fans) tendency to make hard work of what should be easy wins. Their lineout misfired again against Gloucester, as did Ford’s kicking. These need to improve as they cannoty afford to give Worcester any hope.
Should Quins win on Good Friday, we may well see a nervy game from Bath as they look anxiously over their shoulders.
It will be interesting to see what fall out there is for Bath following Saturday’s shenanigans. What they do know is that yet again they could well be in a real scrap. Worcester are not technically relegated – but need a win. Not good enough to get it as Bath are too strong up front and have too much pace and invention in the backs.
However – Bath have shown this season a worrying (for their fans) tendency to make hard work of what should be easy wins. Their lineout misfired again against Gloucester, as did Ford’s kicking. These need to improve as they cannoty afford to give Worcester any hope.
Should Quins win on Good Friday, we may well see a nervy game from Bath as they look anxiously over their shoulders.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Exeter Chiefs v Sale Sharks
Technically Sale are still in the Play-off mix. Defeat would erase those hopes. After last seasons travails though a top 6 spot and ERCC action for next season are a real step up.
A topsy turvy season has seen Exeter struggle to secure wins in the AP ever since the HEC started back in October. The re-instatement of Steenson (ahead of a misfiring Slade) saw Chiefs scoring the sort and volume of tries we have not seen much of since that first half against Cardiff many moons ago. Then, once well clear, they again took their foot off the pedal and coasted – allowing Worcester to come back at them.
Exter have to keep the tempo high and move Sale around. Let that intensity drop and Sale could grind out the win.
Technically Sale are still in the Play-off mix. Defeat would erase those hopes. After last seasons travails though a top 6 spot and ERCC action for next season are a real step up.
A topsy turvy season has seen Exeter struggle to secure wins in the AP ever since the HEC started back in October. The re-instatement of Steenson (ahead of a misfiring Slade) saw Chiefs scoring the sort and volume of tries we have not seen much of since that first half against Cardiff many moons ago. Then, once well clear, they again took their foot off the pedal and coasted – allowing Worcester to come back at them.
Exter have to keep the tempo high and move Sale around. Let that intensity drop and Sale could grind out the win.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
London Wasps v Gloucester Rugby
Wasps rested a number of senior players for the visit to Leicester looking rather callow in the process. Tom Lindsay had another shocker in the lineout and in a scrappy game Wasps never really looked like gaining any league points. The likes of Launchbury, Haskell, Johnson, Simpson and Daly will make a huge difference.
Gloucester, Gloucester, Gloucester. The season cannot end early enough for them. Wasps should be the sort of team they would look forward to playing – even with a front 5 that has at times been powderpuff this season. Sadly I feel this game will be a bit of a damp squib.
Wasps rested a number of senior players for the visit to Leicester looking rather callow in the process. Tom Lindsay had another shocker in the lineout and in a scrappy game Wasps never really looked like gaining any league points. The likes of Launchbury, Haskell, Johnson, Simpson and Daly will make a huge difference.
Gloucester, Gloucester, Gloucester. The season cannot end early enough for them. Wasps should be the sort of team they would look forward to playing – even with a front 5 that has at times been powderpuff this season. Sadly I feel this game will be a bit of a damp squib.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Northampton Saints v London Irish
Can Saints lose 4 AP matches in a row? I just cannot see it happening. Their brand of pace and power should be too much for a London Irish team that has injury concerns and is already looking to concentrate on next season. As an England fan I would love to see Yarde up against North – but seems unlikely.
Can Saints lose 4 AP matches in a row? I just cannot see it happening. Their brand of pace and power should be too much for a London Irish team that has injury concerns and is already looking to concentrate on next season. As an England fan I would love to see Yarde up against North – but seems unlikely.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Newcastle Falcons v Saracens
I still have flashbacks to this fixture two seasons ago. I very much doubt that Sarries will be that negative again but we may well see some players being rotated ahead of the Clermont semi-final.
Falcons have yet not won in the AP since lord knows when. (27th October) and if they are to break that run they will need to ………
I still have flashbacks to this fixture two seasons ago. I very much doubt that Sarries will be that negative again but we may well see some players being rotated ahead of the Clermont semi-final.
Falcons have yet not won in the AP since lord knows when. (27th October) and if they are to break that run they will need to ………
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Am feeling a wee bit more optimistic after the weekend, altho Sale will be a completely different proposition to Wuss. While the victory was welcome, and the first 50mins made for good attacking viewing from a Chiefs perspective, the final 30mins and the penalty count will not have pleased Rob Baxter in the slightest. I'll be hoping for another free-flowing attacking display, but with defence and discipline considerably tightened up
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
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Age : 112
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
LondonTiger wrote:Northampton Saints v London Irish
Can Saints lose 4 AP matches in a row? I just cannot see it happening. Their brand of pace and power should be too much for a London Irish team that has injury concerns and is already looking to concentrate on next season. As an England fan I would love to see Yarde up against North – but seems unlikely.
Injury to O'Connor may see Topsy move to full back and Marland get a place in the team, however I think it's more likely that Lewington or Homer will get the nod a full back, and Marland will remain out in the cold. This, I think, is more about performance than result. We have zero to play for this season now, and this will be about looking at patterns and strategies for next season. A win would be a bonus, but being competitive and playing some decent rugby is more likely the aim.
Ozzy3213- Moderator
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Looking at that table is gutting really. We threw away a 23-12 lead at home to Exeter and only ended up with a LBP, and kicked at 50% or under to lose against Gloucester and Falcons in games that other the kicking we played well enough to have won. That would be 9 more points and each of those teams on 3 points less.
We'd be 7th and Worcester would be just 4 points off Falcons. Such small margins. Hopefully next season we can find that 5%-10% more and turn those narrow defeats into narrow wins.
We'd be 7th and Worcester would be just 4 points off Falcons. Such small margins. Hopefully next season we can find that 5%-10% more and turn those narrow defeats into narrow wins.
Ozzy3213- Moderator
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Ozzy3213 wrote:Looking at that table is gutting really. We threw away a 23-12 lead at home to Exeter and only ended up with a LBP, and kicked at 50% or under to lose against Gloucester and Falcons in games that other the kicking we played well enough to have won. That would be 9 more points and each of those teams on 3 points less.
We'd be 7th and Worcester would be just 4 points off Falcons. Such small margins. Hopefully next season we can find that 5%-10% more and turn those narrow defeats into narrow wins.
TBF though, the teams above us have plenty of LBPs too, so are likely to have their own hard luck stories. 10th is about right on balance imo. Opportunity next year with better resources to push up to mid table and challenge for Europe if all goes well.
Not expecting too much at Northampton. Would be good to see them play with a bit of freedom and keep up the defensive intensity that they showed second half against Newcastle.
Margin_Walker- Posts : 790
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Paul james and bendy may be in a little trouble.
Welly- Posts : 4264
Join date : 2013-12-05
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
I don't usually do this but i'm backing Quins to win on Friday. We're coming into good form at just the right time and should be able to match Tigers across the pitch. A lot will rest on the pack as always but I think they can do it.
Key battles for me are:
Marler/Ward/Synckler v Ayerza/Youngs/Mulipola - Two very similar front rows, with a mix of young and old in there, the Quins front row is a lot less experienced but has come on well this year. Ward's throwing is a worry though.
Robshaw v Salvi - Two class 7's, the breakdown will be a battleground and the team that controls it will be set to win the game. Robshaw has the benefit of Wallace and Ward to help him out, Salvi is lacking some support that he'd usually get.
Care v Youngs- Englands two best 9's will look to put on a display against each other.
Key battles for me are:
Marler/Ward/Synckler v Ayerza/Youngs/Mulipola - Two very similar front rows, with a mix of young and old in there, the Quins front row is a lot less experienced but has come on well this year. Ward's throwing is a worry though.
Robshaw v Salvi - Two class 7's, the breakdown will be a battleground and the team that controls it will be set to win the game. Robshaw has the benefit of Wallace and Ward to help him out, Salvi is lacking some support that he'd usually get.
Care v Youngs- Englands two best 9's will look to put on a display against each other.
yappysnap- Posts : 11993
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Age : 36
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Friday's ref is Mr Wigglesworth, which could work out either way depending on what he decides to fuss over. Quins' style of play generally pushes the boundaries less than Leicester's, but I could see our tacklers getting into trouble for not clearly releasing.
Still, the last half dozen encounters have generally been good natured games between two sides who actually want to play, so fingers crossed we won't see the flurry of cards from Glaws-Bath again. Clumsy lineout play is likely to be punished, though, which could cause problems for Charlie Matthews if he tires towards the end of the game. If it starts getting tricky, you can expect Robshaw to take charge and call a lot of balls to himself and Easter, which Tigers could exploit if they're ready for it.
Still, the last half dozen encounters have generally been good natured games between two sides who actually want to play, so fingers crossed we won't see the flurry of cards from Glaws-Bath again. Clumsy lineout play is likely to be punished, though, which could cause problems for Charlie Matthews if he tires towards the end of the game. If it starts getting tricky, you can expect Robshaw to take charge and call a lot of balls to himself and Easter, which Tigers could exploit if they're ready for it.
Poorfour- Posts : 6407
Join date : 2011-10-01
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
i dont even want to think about whats going to happen this weekend. And thats even considering i expect the Sarries 2nd / U20 side to be put out!!!!
Geordie- Posts : 28849
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Location : Newcastle
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Poorfour wrote:Friday's ref is Mr Wigglesworth, which could work out either way depending on what he decides to fuss over. Quins' style of play generally pushes the boundaries less than Leicester's, but I could see our tacklers getting into trouble for not clearly releasing.
Still, the last half dozen encounters have generally been good natured games between two sides who actually want to play, so fingers crossed we won't see the flurry of cards from Glaws-Bath again. Clumsy lineout play is likely to be punished, though, which could cause problems for Charlie Matthews if he tires towards the end of the game. If it starts getting tricky, you can expect Robshaw to take charge and call a lot of balls to himself and Easter, which Tigers could exploit if they're ready for it.
One thing that I would def put in tigers favour is the lineout.
With Slater, Gibson, Kitchener, Deacon and Parling all very good lineout takers, and youngs club form being a hell of a lot better than at England I expect tigers to target here.
Also Poorfour tbh Salvi has never really gotten that much help in the breakdown he is however one of the best at the breakdown and area of contact. Will say that Hopefully Matera or mafi is on the bench and if Matera is on the bench and he comes on @ 6 we should top the breakdown.
Quins main danger is the offloading game if you can slow down Quins and stop care running there plan B isn't the best at times.
Cockers has said all but Benjamin, Croft and Cole will be fit and available.
Quins will be favourite for this game because it is at home, but it should be a cracker.
Welly- Posts : 4264
Join date : 2013-12-05
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
No Camacho he has had complications with his shoulder and isn't fit.
I'd expect:
Ayerza, Youngs, Mulipola
Slater, Kitchener
Gibson, Crane, Salvi
Youngs. Williams
Allen, Manu
Goneva, Tait, Scully
Bench: Stanko, Hawkins, Balmain, Parling, Matera, Mele, Flood, Morris
Which means we should be Ok at the set piece but must up our game in the tackle and breakdown to deprive Quins of the chance to offload or give Care quick ball.
I'd expect:
Ayerza, Youngs, Mulipola
Slater, Kitchener
Gibson, Crane, Salvi
Youngs. Williams
Allen, Manu
Goneva, Tait, Scully
Bench: Stanko, Hawkins, Balmain, Parling, Matera, Mele, Flood, Morris
Which means we should be Ok at the set piece but must up our game in the tackle and breakdown to deprive Quins of the chance to offload or give Care quick ball.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21245
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Welly, I don't know if you watched our breakdown play on Friday, but Ward and Wallace were making a serious nuisance of themselves for Sale. Salvi will undoubtedly be hard to handle but Quins now seem to have options that don't rely on offloading as well. Marler, Sinckler and Robshaw are all adept at tidying up slow ball, which gets us back on the front foot more often than not. It also depends a lot on where Wigglesworth draws the line. I thought for Glaws and Bath he was quite pernickety, particularly about tacklers releasing, and that will be difficult for whichever side adapts slower.
Quins have four good lineout options in Robson, Matthews, Easter and Robshaw, but man-for-man I'd expect Tigers to have the edge. Expect a fair bit of kick-chase from our side, then. Scrum could go either way - ours is not the most powerful but the front row and Easter have shown enough nous to get the ball back cleanly enough to get it away, even when under pressure.
In the back line, expect Care and Evans to mix things up and exploit any gaps - Evans has scored several superb individual tries in the last few weeks. A lot will depend on the match-ups in the outside backs - can Molenaar contain Tuilagi (this may be where we really miss Lowe. He's not the world's biggest OC but his positioning has kept Manu fairly quiet when they've met)? Can Ollie Lindsay-Hague contain Goneva? (I know the answer to this. It is "no". I hope Chisholm or Williams is deemed fit enough to start). How many of the Leicester backline will be required to stop Brown?
Will Quins keep dropping crucial passes? That, to me, is the real question. If we hang onto the ball in your 22, I think we have enough. If we make mistakes like we did in the first half against Stade, Tigers' clinical finishing will put us to the sword.
Quins have four good lineout options in Robson, Matthews, Easter and Robshaw, but man-for-man I'd expect Tigers to have the edge. Expect a fair bit of kick-chase from our side, then. Scrum could go either way - ours is not the most powerful but the front row and Easter have shown enough nous to get the ball back cleanly enough to get it away, even when under pressure.
In the back line, expect Care and Evans to mix things up and exploit any gaps - Evans has scored several superb individual tries in the last few weeks. A lot will depend on the match-ups in the outside backs - can Molenaar contain Tuilagi (this may be where we really miss Lowe. He's not the world's biggest OC but his positioning has kept Manu fairly quiet when they've met)? Can Ollie Lindsay-Hague contain Goneva? (I know the answer to this. It is "no". I hope Chisholm or Williams is deemed fit enough to start). How many of the Leicester backline will be required to stop Brown?
Will Quins keep dropping crucial passes? That, to me, is the real question. If we hang onto the ball in your 22, I think we have enough. If we make mistakes like we did in the first half against Stade, Tigers' clinical finishing will put us to the sword.
Poorfour- Posts : 6407
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Oh, and Ward is one of the few remaining proper hookers in top tier rugby, until the next generation grows up. That is, he knows how to hook the ball, as opposed to just walk over it. If sir enforces straight put ins, and Quins' front row can get close to parity, expect Youngs to be under a fair bit of pressure there.
Edited for hyperbole
Edited for hyperbole
Poorfour- Posts : 6407
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Poorfour wrote:Oh, and Ward is one of the few remaining proper hookers in top tier rugby, until the next generation grows up. That is, he knows how to hook the ball, as opposed to just walk over it. If sir enforces straight put ins, and Quins' front row can get close to parity, expect Youngs to be under a fair bit of pressure there.
Edited for hyperbole
Youngs is one of very few hookers I have seen strike for the ball. He has even struck some against the head. He has learnt this skill very quickly.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
The key for Leicester is stopping Quins slowing down the ball. For a few years now, when at their best, this is where Quins have excelled - and got away with it.
Man for man I believe we have the better players - Quins fans probably disagree.
Man for man I believe we have the better players - Quins fans probably disagree.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
GeordieFalcon wrote:i dont even want to think about whats going to happen this weekend. And thats even considering i expect the Sarries 2nd / U20 side to be put out!!!!
Should be a spicy encounter with Fraser and Saull likely going head to head.
I expect this sort of team:
1.Barrington
2.George
3.Stevens
4.Botha
5.Sherriff
6.Burger
7.Fraser
8.Wray
9.De Kock
10.Hodgson
11.Strettle
12.Streather
13.Bosch
14.Wilson
15.Wyles
16.Auterac
17.Spurling
18.Du Plessis
19.Smith
20.Melck
21.Spencer
22.Mordt
23.Ransom
Maybe some of the England U20s like Tompkins,Itoje and Earle might get some gametime but doubt it.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
My humble predictions:
Harlequins v Leicester Tigers BT Sport
Quins Win
Quins looked sharp against us last week, with Care running the pace at 9 I can see Quins taking this one. However it will be close and would not be surprised if Leicester win.
Bath Rugby v Worcester Warriors
Bath Win
Warriors look more stable as the season comes to an end, but it is too little too late. Away to Bath will be too much for warriors and I can only really see a comfortable win for Bath
Exeter Chiefs v Sale Sharks
Just about an Exeter Win
Chiefs away is never an easy game, with Sharks dipping a bit in the last two weeks I suspect this will be a home win, however if we can find our intensity in the forwards and a bit of Cips magic this could be a Sale win, close to call.
London Wasps v Gloucester Rugby BT Sport
Wasps Win
Well after shooting themselves in the foot many times last week I struggle to see Gloucester beating Wasps away. I don't expect Gloucester's discipline to be as bad as last week but I do think there will be a hangover, which they don't need on their travels.
Northampton Saints v London Irish BT Sport
Saints Win
I think saints will use this match to steady the ship a bit, Irish will put up a fight but will get overpowered and will end in a comfortable win for the Saints.
Newcastle Falcons v Saracens
Saracens Win
The only thing going for the Falcons in this game is that it is on home ground, I really struggle to see any area of the game where Newcastle can compete, unless a miracle happens this should be an easy win for Saracens.
Harlequins v Leicester Tigers BT Sport
Quins Win
Quins looked sharp against us last week, with Care running the pace at 9 I can see Quins taking this one. However it will be close and would not be surprised if Leicester win.
Bath Rugby v Worcester Warriors
Bath Win
Warriors look more stable as the season comes to an end, but it is too little too late. Away to Bath will be too much for warriors and I can only really see a comfortable win for Bath
Exeter Chiefs v Sale Sharks
Just about an Exeter Win
Chiefs away is never an easy game, with Sharks dipping a bit in the last two weeks I suspect this will be a home win, however if we can find our intensity in the forwards and a bit of Cips magic this could be a Sale win, close to call.
London Wasps v Gloucester Rugby BT Sport
Wasps Win
Well after shooting themselves in the foot many times last week I struggle to see Gloucester beating Wasps away. I don't expect Gloucester's discipline to be as bad as last week but I do think there will be a hangover, which they don't need on their travels.
Northampton Saints v London Irish BT Sport
Saints Win
I think saints will use this match to steady the ship a bit, Irish will put up a fight but will get overpowered and will end in a comfortable win for the Saints.
Newcastle Falcons v Saracens
Saracens Win
The only thing going for the Falcons in this game is that it is on home ground, I really struggle to see any area of the game where Newcastle can compete, unless a miracle happens this should be an easy win for Saracens.
englishborn- Posts : 153
Join date : 2011-09-15
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
LondonTiger wrote:The key for Leicester is stopping Quins slowing down the ball. For a few years now, when at their best, this is where Quins have excelled - and got away with it.
Man for man I believe we have the better players - Quins fans probably disagree.
Tigers definitely have the better second row and centres. Quins have the better halfbacks on current form. I would say that Brown gives us an edge in the back three (unless OLH plays, in which case Tigers have the better unit). Back row and front row sufficiently close that it will depend on the ref.
Interesting that Youngs has learned to hook. I hadn't noticed that. He was hopeless at it at the start of the season, so well done to him. I guess it helps to have a former hooker as DoR. That said, Ward has taken several against the head as well, so it could be quite a battle.
Poorfour- Posts : 6407
Join date : 2011-10-01
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Beshocked,
That team should be enough to put a cricket score on us!
That team should be enough to put a cricket score on us!
Geordie- Posts : 28849
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Disagree with Halfbacks on current form.
On current form our half backs have been playing very well for longer, took Clermont away to the sword in the HC 1/4 we and Toulon were the closest to beating them Youngs has really up his game, and Williams is a solid 10 who has very good vision as shown by the Clermont try, and a monster kick under pressure (saints and Clermont both away). Would say a tie.
Also one player you have missed from tigers but imo has been the 2 best backs in recent weeks our Tait and Scully have been brilliant, both in attack and defence.
Poorfour I don't also think Quins will get bossed at the breakdown, I was just saying in recent weeks more people have been helping Salvi, the likes of Gibson, Slater and crane, but I reckon IF Matera comes on it will give Leicester the edge they from the game I have seen both for Argentina and Leicester Matera has looked a beast at the breakdown.
Agree londontiger Young has a very underrated hooking game he has do very well.
I think that if Harlequins are allowed to play offloading quick games you will win, Not because it is your main thing but also because we have struggled to defend it. Although a fully fit Allen will help try and contain. but in defence we struggle against the offloads.
Poorfour do you reckon Charlie Walker could be playing back from injury although defending wise still needs to learn stuff attackingly he looks very dangerous, was a former tigers lad but I thought tigers handled him very badly re: schools.
On current form our half backs have been playing very well for longer, took Clermont away to the sword in the HC 1/4 we and Toulon were the closest to beating them Youngs has really up his game, and Williams is a solid 10 who has very good vision as shown by the Clermont try, and a monster kick under pressure (saints and Clermont both away). Would say a tie.
Also one player you have missed from tigers but imo has been the 2 best backs in recent weeks our Tait and Scully have been brilliant, both in attack and defence.
Poorfour I don't also think Quins will get bossed at the breakdown, I was just saying in recent weeks more people have been helping Salvi, the likes of Gibson, Slater and crane, but I reckon IF Matera comes on it will give Leicester the edge they from the game I have seen both for Argentina and Leicester Matera has looked a beast at the breakdown.
Agree londontiger Young has a very underrated hooking game he has do very well.
I think that if Harlequins are allowed to play offloading quick games you will win, Not because it is your main thing but also because we have struggled to defend it. Although a fully fit Allen will help try and contain. but in defence we struggle against the offloads.
Poorfour do you reckon Charlie Walker could be playing back from injury although defending wise still needs to learn stuff attackingly he looks very dangerous, was a former tigers lad but I thought tigers handled him very badly re: schools.
Welly- Posts : 4264
Join date : 2013-12-05
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Walker might make the bench, think Smith and TW will start and Chis will get a rest maybe.
Tigers HBs in good form but I'd still say with Nev back in form he's a class above Williams and Care > Youngs.
Tigers HBs in good form but I'd still say with Nev back in form he's a class above Williams and Care > Youngs.
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Disagree with Care > Youngs when both in form Youngs > Care imo.
Agree re Nev vs Williams 2 very different 10s. Williams still has a lot to learn.
Looking at the 2 possible teams sheets, the only quins players I would take over ours would be Easter for Crane (I like crane but easters attacking is more varied), Evans for Williams (not long term but just for this game) and Maybe Wallace for Gibson (Gibson has been playing very well this season but i'm a huge fan of Wallace), but then I would say this im a tigers fan.
Agree re Nev vs Williams 2 very different 10s. Williams still has a lot to learn.
Looking at the 2 possible teams sheets, the only quins players I would take over ours would be Easter for Crane (I like crane but easters attacking is more varied), Evans for Williams (not long term but just for this game) and Maybe Wallace for Gibson (Gibson has been playing very well this season but i'm a huge fan of Wallace), but then I would say this im a tigers fan.
Welly- Posts : 4264
Join date : 2013-12-05
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
You could always take Robshaw over Gibson as he plays 6 every bit as much as Wallace in that partnership?
I'd take Mulipola, for Extra experience, Deacon (for Matthews), Manu and Goneva. Consider Allen too
I can't believe you wouldn't take Brown though
I'd take Mulipola, for Extra experience, Deacon (for Matthews), Manu and Goneva. Consider Allen too
I can't believe you wouldn't take Brown though
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
ChequeredJersey wrote:You could always take Robshaw over Gibson as he plays 6 every bit as much as Wallace in that partnership?
I'd take Mulipola, for Extra experience, Deacon (for Matthews), Manu and Goneva. Consider Allen too
I can't believe you wouldn't take Brown though
Suppose I could take Robshaw over Gibson was going on positions they been playing.
Regarding Brown v Tait I am a fan of browns but Tait has been brilliant when fit for tigers and is one of the most underrated players for Tigers imo. Suppose when I think about the most recent game where they have faced each other was the semi final last year (oh what a brilliant game don't you think) Tait was the superior player imo (although he was on a team that was running rampant.
Suppose I am surpised we wouldn't take Ayerza and Slater instead of Deacon. But everyone will always have your club favourites.
Welly- Posts : 4264
Join date : 2013-12-05
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Marler is fantastic, wouldn't swap him for any loosehead
Slater probably a better shout
Slater probably a better shout
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Good point CJ - can take Brown on wing ahead of Scully.
Seriously now, as a fan of a team you would only take a player if they are clearly better than your own.
So, trying to be objective:
Ayerza > Marler
Youngs > Ward
Mulipola > Sinkler
Slater >> Mathews
Kitchener >= Robson
Gibson = Wallace
Salvi < Robshaw
Crane =< Easter
Youngs =< Care (current form)
Williams < Evans (though for how much longer)
Thompstone > Smith
Allen > JTH
Manu >> Molenaar
Goneva >> OLH
Tait < Brown
So, as Tigers fan I would take Robshaw over Gibson.
If the position were reversed I would take Slater, Manu and Goneva ahead of their counterparts.
Seriously now, as a fan of a team you would only take a player if they are clearly better than your own.
So, trying to be objective:
Ayerza > Marler
Youngs > Ward
Mulipola > Sinkler
Slater >> Mathews
Kitchener >= Robson
Gibson = Wallace
Salvi < Robshaw
Crane =< Easter
Youngs =< Care (current form)
Williams < Evans (though for how much longer)
Thompstone > Smith
Allen > JTH
Manu >> Molenaar
Goneva >> OLH
Tait < Brown
So, as Tigers fan I would take Robshaw over Gibson.
If the position were reversed I would take Slater, Manu and Goneva ahead of their counterparts.
LondonTiger- Moderator
- Posts : 23485
Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
What that all says to me is that it could be very close. I am surprised that anyone would take Williams over Evans on current form (and bear in mind that Quins ran Clermont close as well, back in the autumn), and we'll have to agree to differ on Youngs and Tait vs Care and Brown now that the latter are finally delivering on their full promise internationally.
Only 48 hours till we find out, though. I am really quite excited.
Only 48 hours till we find out, though. I am really quite excited.
Poorfour- Posts : 6407
Join date : 2011-10-01
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
OLH won't be starting anyhow
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Poorfour wrote:I am surprised that anyone would take Williams over Evans on current form
I am declining to tale Evans over Williams - that is different. It would disrupt our team too much.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
ChequeredJersey wrote:OLH won't be starting anyhow
?
yappysnap- Posts : 11993
Join date : 2011-06-01
Age : 36
Location : Christchurch, NZ
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
TW and Matthews meant to be fit, both significantly better wingers. As is Chis
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Looks like several absent Chiefs should be available for the Sale game - TJ is near on recovered from his hammy pull, Tui is back to shore up the scrum, and Ben White has come thru his concussion protocol - so Rob Baxter should be picking from a near full hand. Sh1tlid is still doubtful (Nowell), but he's an over-rated show pony anyhew!!
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
Join date : 2011-03-26
Age : 112
Location : Devon/London
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Will Slade be risked again, or has Steenson secured the jersey for the rest of the season?
LondonTiger- Moderator
- Posts : 23485
Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Looks like several absent Chiefs should be available for the Sale game - TJ is near on recovered from his hammy pull, Tui is back to shore up the scrum, and Ben White has come thru his concussion protocol - so Rob Baxter should be picking from a near full hand. Sh1tlid is still doubtful (Nowell), but he's an over-rated show pony anyhew!!
He doesn't score tries - bin him...
Jimpy- Posts : 2823
Join date : 2012-08-02
Location : Not in a hot sandy place anymore
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Wouldn't surprise me to see Steeno's steady hand at the tiller for this one at least, LT, maybe Sladey back for QuinsLondonTiger wrote:Will Slade be risked again, or has Steenson secured the jersey for the rest of the season?
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
Join date : 2011-03-26
Age : 112
Location : Devon/London
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Poorfour I would take Williams over Evans. Admittedly I am just basing it on the last time I saw each of them play - Saints vs Leicester, Sarries - Quins. Both were decisive in their teams wins and losses on the day.
Londontiger's assessment of the two teams is excellent.
Alasbut100ofus Can't accuse Nowell of being a show pony. As for being overrated....obviously we just have different views of what we want to see from our wingers ( the extra full back vs the finisher). I think we have said enough on the topic.
Welly as for Tait. That was last year. He was good then, since then he's been dogged by injuries and shown patchy form in my opinion.
I would say that Leicester have a clear edge in the front five, Quins perhaps marginally better in the backrow, halfbacks -about even.
Centres - clear advantage to Leicester. Wingers clear advantage to Leicester. Clear advantage to Quins at 15.
I would say that Leicester are the steadier team but Quins have enough match winners to cause some damage.
Stopping the power of Mulipola, Manu and Goneva will be integral to Quins. These are their go to players in attack. Stopping a side's big ball carriers obviously sucks the momentum out of a teams attack.
Londontiger's assessment of the two teams is excellent.
Alasbut100ofus Can't accuse Nowell of being a show pony. As for being overrated....obviously we just have different views of what we want to see from our wingers ( the extra full back vs the finisher). I think we have said enough on the topic.
Welly as for Tait. That was last year. He was good then, since then he's been dogged by injuries and shown patchy form in my opinion.
I would say that Leicester have a clear edge in the front five, Quins perhaps marginally better in the backrow, halfbacks -about even.
Centres - clear advantage to Leicester. Wingers clear advantage to Leicester. Clear advantage to Quins at 15.
I would say that Leicester are the steadier team but Quins have enough match winners to cause some damage.
Stopping the power of Mulipola, Manu and Goneva will be integral to Quins. These are their go to players in attack. Stopping a side's big ball carriers obviously sucks the momentum out of a teams attack.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Beshocked, there's this thing called form where a player's more recent games are more indicative of how they are likely to play in their next game...
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Poorfour I would take Williams over Evans. Admittedly I am just basing it on the last time I saw each of them play - Saints vs Leicester, Sarries - Quins. Both were decisive in their teams wins and losses on the day.
Londontiger's assessment of the two teams is excellent.
Alasbut100ofus Can't accuse Nowell of being a show pony. As for being overrated....obviously we just have different views of what we want to see from our wingers ( the extra full back vs the finisher). I think we have said enough on the topic.
Welly as for Tait. That was last year. He was good then, since then he's been dogged by injuries and shown patchy form in my opinion.
I would say that Leicester have a clear edge in the front five, Quins perhaps marginally better in the backrow, halfbacks -about even.
Centres - clear advantage to Leicester. Wingers clear advantage to Leicester. Clear advantage to Quins at 15.
I would say that Leicester are the steadier team but Quins have enough match winners to cause some damage.
Stopping the power of Mulipola, Manu and Goneva will be integral to Quins. These are their go to players in attack. Stopping a side's big ball carriers obviously sucks the momentum out of a teams attack.
Londontiger's assessment of the two teams is excellent.
Alasbut100ofus Can't accuse Nowell of being a show pony. As for being overrated....obviously we just have different views of what we want to see from our wingers ( the extra full back vs the finisher). I think we have said enough on the topic.
Welly as for Tait. That was last year. He was good then, since then he's been dogged by injuries and shown patchy form in my opinion.
I would say that Leicester have a clear edge in the front five, Quins perhaps marginally better in the backrow, halfbacks -about even.
Centres - clear advantage to Leicester. Wingers clear advantage to Leicester. Clear advantage to Quins at 15.
I would say that Leicester are the steadier team but Quins have enough match winners to cause some damage.
Stopping the power of Mulipola, Manu and Goneva will be integral to Quins. These are their go to players in attack. Stopping a side's big ball carriers obviously sucks the momentum out of a teams attack.
beshocked- Posts : 14849
Join date : 2011-03-08
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
beshocked wrote:
Welly as for Tait. That was last year. He was good then, since then he's been dogged by injuries and shown patchy form in my opinion.
Injury I argue but when Tait has played for us in particular the last couple of weeks he been brilliant.
Last week he was our best back in all round play (manu was a beast in attack and made some good tackles)
But Tait tactical kicking has certainly improved. When fit he been a key player for us imo.
Welly- Posts : 4264
Join date : 2013-12-05
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Tait is playing better now than at any time in his Tigers career. Not claiming he is better than Brown (if you see above I state the reverse) but he is in top form imo.
LondonTiger- Moderator
- Posts : 23485
Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Leicester Tigers (v Harlequins, away, Friday 7.45pm)
15 Mathew Tait
14 Blaine Scully
13 Manusamoa Tuilagi
12 Anthony Allen
11 Vereniki Goneva
10 Toby Flood
9 Ben Youngs
1 Marcos Ayerza
2 Neil Briggs
3 Logovi'i Mulipola
4 Ed Slater (c)
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Jamie Gibson
7 Julian Salvi
8 Jordan Crane
Replacements
16 Rob Hawkins
17 Boris Stankovich
18 Fraser Balmain
19 Geoff Parling
20 Pablo Matera
21 David Mele
22 Owen Williams
23 Niall Morris
Harlequins
15 Mike Brown
14 Ollie Lindsay-Hague
13 Tim Molenaar
12 Jordan Turner-Hall
11 Sam Smith
10 Nick Evans
9 Danny Care
1 Joe Marler
2 Dave Ward
3 Kyle Sinckler
4 Charlie Matthews
5 George Robson
6 Luke Wallace
7 Chris Robshaw (C)
8 Nick Easter
replacements
16 Rob Buchanan
17 Mark Lambert
18 Paul Doran Jones
19 Tom Guest
20 Maurie Fa'asavalu
21 Karl Dickson
22 Ben Botica
23 Ross Chisholm
15 Mathew Tait
14 Blaine Scully
13 Manusamoa Tuilagi
12 Anthony Allen
11 Vereniki Goneva
10 Toby Flood
9 Ben Youngs
1 Marcos Ayerza
2 Neil Briggs
3 Logovi'i Mulipola
4 Ed Slater (c)
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Jamie Gibson
7 Julian Salvi
8 Jordan Crane
Replacements
16 Rob Hawkins
17 Boris Stankovich
18 Fraser Balmain
19 Geoff Parling
20 Pablo Matera
21 David Mele
22 Owen Williams
23 Niall Morris
Harlequins
15 Mike Brown
14 Ollie Lindsay-Hague
13 Tim Molenaar
12 Jordan Turner-Hall
11 Sam Smith
10 Nick Evans
9 Danny Care
1 Joe Marler
2 Dave Ward
3 Kyle Sinckler
4 Charlie Matthews
5 George Robson
6 Luke Wallace
7 Chris Robshaw (C)
8 Nick Easter
replacements
16 Rob Buchanan
17 Mark Lambert
18 Paul Doran Jones
19 Tom Guest
20 Maurie Fa'asavalu
21 Karl Dickson
22 Ben Botica
23 Ross Chisholm
LondonTiger- Moderator
- Posts : 23485
Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
tom youngs rested completely (maybe carrying a knock?) while Flood in for Williams are the main talking points.
LondonTiger- Moderator
- Posts : 23485
Join date : 2011-02-10
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
LondonTiger wrote:tom youngs rested completely (maybe carrying a knock?) while Flood in for Williams are the main talking points.
Tigers havent lost a premiership game when Youngs, Flood, Allen and Tuilagi have all started..... just saying.
Williams kept Flood out on form, his form dropped last week. Cockers starts flood to keep Williams honest?
Jimpy- Posts : 2823
Join date : 2012-08-02
Location : Not in a hot sandy place anymore
Re: Aviva Premiership Round 20
Also Williams is not used to playing so many matches, at this level week in week out.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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