Ian Ritchie, saviour of the European club rugby competition

Interesting article on main bbc sport page, can't paste link from mobile site...but I thought our Celtic cousins would particularly enjoy this quote from Ian Ritchie towards the end of the article...

"We spent a lot of time with Mark McCafferty and Bruce Craig at Premiership Rugby, and there was a lot of imagination and creativity coming out of them to try and secure this deal as well. So you have to look at this as a team approach.

"I think it's been well worth the effort. We have a very exciting competition ahead, and a great future for the game in Europe."

Yawn - you won, enough with the self-congratulation!

Nice try. Many of us already suspected that Richie was nothing more than McCafferty's pet rat, and made comments to that effect at the beginning of all this.

Sure wasn't he mediating on their behalf?

Old new's   

Nary a nibble

Tell you what, quinny, let's give him a gong (or whatever you chaps like) and get on with it!

After we win RWC asbo...

If anyone is really interested here is the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/27037515

I was amused to read this bit towards the end
In the meantime, Ritchie is free to return to his day job, admitting that the "next priority" is to strike an agreement with the clubs regarding compensation for when the World Cup takes place in 2015.

From other reports it would appear the clubs are demanding £14,000,000 compensation ...

With friends like Bruce Craig and Mark McCafferty who needs enemies. Best of luck Ian.

The clubs are being forced not to play for two months, in which they would normally be generating income. That's about 9 weeks, so 45 games. Average attendance is 11000 I think so that would be nearly 500000 tickets. Plus we don't know why the broadcasters think about not having any rugby to air in their schedule (World Cup is FTA so not having that) and whether the clubs are taking a cut. Compensation is perfectly fair (they didn't stop during the other WC, it's being done so the WC has a higher attendance and makes more money for the RFU). £14M is a bit of joke but it's an upper limit starting point.

Not sure £14m is that much of a joke. Are player salaries and staff salaries put on hold for the two months the AP has no matches?

Are the matches going to get caught up for AP? If so, when?

£1m (and a little bit) per team doesn't seem excessive for lost revenues in a year when the RFU will be absolutely coining it.

Wasn't Richie the guy who saved his own skin by caving in to the clubs privately and saying nothing publicly? That kind of adept manoeuvring usually is the entry point audition for the House of Lords...

Hmmm, the opening lines of this article seem quite provocative. Are the mods okay with this?

Is pretty much the title of the bbc article. Complain to them.

I took it as quins taking the urine myself.

While we are trying to stuff our club season into a small space next season, we will of course have the summer tour to Australia. Not a pretty picture.

If it suits England, I can easily see them deciding to send a Saxons selection down south. That wouldn't be a consideration if the schedule for this year had been handled properly.

Rugby Fan wrote:While we are trying to stuff our club season into a small space next season, we will of course have the summer tour to Australia. Not a pretty picture.

If it suits England, I can easily see them deciding to send a Saxons selection down south. That wouldn't be a consideration if the schedule for this year had been handled properly.

It won't suit England. The RFU will need to fill twickers a lot more now to keep come up with the cash to pay off the PRL. The ABs will be demanding more than a 1million appearance fee to play in Twickers if the RFU don't send a senior squad to tour NZ.

NZRU will take what they can get, because they are desperate for cash. It even appears there is an acknowledgement that central contacts have run their course and will not be sustainable for much longer, unless another income stream can be created.

They have sold the shirt to sponsors, they have dropped the Maori side, they have asked and got three match summer tours as the belief is they generate more interest and revenue, they have fifteen matches a season. They have tried to generate private investment without conceding control of the main asset, the players. They obtained government funding for the stadia refurbishment and increased capacity at some grounds.
What else is left ?

They didn't suspend the Jeff in 2011 or 2007 for the RWC. I don't recall that they ever have for any RWC.

Are they planning to do so for 2015?

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:They didn't suspend the Jeff in 2011 or 2007 for the RWC. I don't recall that they ever have for any RWC.

Are they planning to do so for 2015?

It's a home World Cup so it's about maximising interest, gates and revenue.

The Great Aukster wrote:Wasn't Richie the guy who saved his own skin by caving in to the clubs privately and saying nothing publicly? That kind of adept manoeuvring usually is the entry point audition for the House of Lords...

Yeah those that aired their washing in public certainly all came out looking the better...

Recwatcher wrote:NZRU will take what they can get, because they are desperate for cash. It even appears there is an acknowledgement that central contacts have run their course and will not be sustainable for much longer,  unless another income stream can be created.

They have sold the shirt to sponsors,  they have dropped the Maori side,  they have asked and got three match summer tours as the belief is they generate more interest and revenue,  they have fifteen matches a season. They have tried to generate private investment without conceding control of the main asset,  the players.  They obtained government funding for the stadia refurbishment and increased capacity at some grounds.  
What else is left ?

Given the increasing injuries in rugby these days, I'd say dual contracts make more sense. That way neither the clubs or union really lose out.

The only countries that play rugby and can generate a lot of wealth are England and France. And now maybe Japan? I'm not sure if the rest of the rugby world can keep up (it's not just NZ rugby struggling). Power in the hands of the Unions rather than the clubs could probably stem the tide.

77% of Jeff players are English/EQed, St., how would placing the RFU in control of the playing assets improve our lot? http://rugby.statbunker.com/

Or are you simply referring to Wales?

I think England and France, structure wise, are pretty healthy. The unions agreeing to enforce a salary cap for each continent could maybe slow down the amount of players going overseas (is what I was moving towards), but for that to happen the Unions would need to hold more power. I'm not so sure that they hold as much now(in Europe at least), for the next 8 years?

That presupposes a form of common interest, St.
Nothing over the past two years has persuaded me more that at heart, neither the Unions, their 'clubs' nor their fans have anything but self-interest to the fore.

e.g. Everyone appears to have a singularly self-interested take on the meaning of the term 'fairness'.

Personally I'm a naive brutalist who'd find no quarter to the food banks of the professional rugby needy - just so long as the participant sides are constrained by the rules that should (properly enforced) regulate them. shhh. don't tell anyone but that'd mean Sarries, Bath, Toulon ,Paris et al.

Just let the best compete in an un-rigged (neo-Marxist) competition.

An unusual stance for a political left-winger, I know. But this ain't the downtrodden masses I'm talking about.
Just a game.

p.s. Use the quote icon to highlight further information.

Professionalism means finances become important but Unions holding back clubs to the lowest common denominator is like saying the USA & China should be barred from winning so many golds at the Olympics - it is not going to happen.
Unions can only keep their best players with the lure of test caps and hire the best coaches that they can afford - which is the irish model.

Toulon are derided because their is little link to the national side with French players, as if that should be a given. The reality is that they are a private club who proudly represent their town. The fans and sponsors have responded accordingly making them a formidable proposition, which should all be part of the diversity within the club game.

I think Ritchie, McCafferty and the PRL manoeuvred everyone around perfectly.

What did the PRL not get from its original set of demands?

Allocation for English clubs increased from 24% to 33% - Tick.
Top 6 qualification in English league - Tick.
Top 7 qualification in that Rabo12Direct Pro League thingy - Tick (mostly)
Keep BT happy with their "deal" - Tick.
Reduce Irish income from 13% to 8% of overall pot. - Tick.
Get RRW on side and further dilute union power - Tick
Commercial deals managed by a club majority - Tick
Keep brand name - Tick (Give it less than 12 months for European to be dropped from description)
Persuade media that it was all the fault of the greedy Celts - Tick.
Let RFU take glory in preparation for making substantial compensation for RWC 2015 - Tick.

To mix sporting metaphors - I'd call that a slam dunk.

Lord Ritchie and Baron Beaumont can't be far away.....

Doesn't sound like think the Pro12 negotiators are much kop then, PH.

Two years ago they were all bluff and bluster.
The Franglos failed in their mission to get full meritocracy, though.

How are the Pro12 splitting their cash? Has that been released yet? If by number if teams in pro12 the Irish would be going from 13% to 11%.

HammerofThunor wrote:How are the Pro12 splitting their cash? Has that been released yet? If by number if teams in pro12 the Irish would be going from 13% to 11%.

11% of a substantially larger sum, I believe, HoT.

Poor old Patrick.

Its being split between the Unions x Wales, Ireland & Scotland 5.1m each. Italy 4.7m.

Any money over the 20m that is raised then to be split between Wales & Ireland who have double the number of teams that Scotland & Italy have.

The Italians are not happy about getting less than Scotland (who seem to have been the only ones who have come out of this very well financially in that they have got it every way).

Nail on head from Neil Francis.!

Neil Francis – Updated 20 April 2014 01:10 PM
Sometimes high farce will give you a greater sense of perspective and reality than any other train of rational thought can. The following lines from The Life of Brian graphically illustrate what happened last week in relation to the new European Rugby competition.
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Brian was trying to join the People's Front of Judea, a pathetic secret organisation trying to rise up against the Romans.

Brian: "Are you the Judean People's Front?"

Reg: "No, we are the People's Front of Judea! Judean People's Front, kuhh."

Francis: "Meat trombone soloist."

PFJ: "Yeah."

Judith: "Splitters."

PFJ: "Splitters."

Francis: "And the Judean Popular People's Front."

PFJ: Yeah. Oh yeah. Splitters, Splitters.

Kumquat: "And the People's Front of Judea"

PFJ: "Yeah. Splitters, splitters . . ."

Reg: "What?"

Kumquat: The People's Front of Judea. Splitters."

Reg: "We are the People's Front of Judea!"

So now instead of the European Rugby Cup (ERC) we have the European Rugby Champions Cup (ERCC) and instead of the European Rugby Cup Limited (ERC Ltd) as a governing body we have the European Professional Club Rugby Limited (EPCR Ltd). A radical change then.

Every time I read news about how everything has been resolved I get a mental image of Neville Chamberlain arriving back from Berlin with a useless piece of paper in his hand and uttering the phrase, "Peace in our time". A witless man duped by the signature of a psychopath. Leader-in-waiting Winston Churchill had been calling it correctly for years. His philosophy was bang on. "An appeaser," he said, "is one who feeds a crocodile hoping it will eat him last."

In 1995, when the game went professional, I welcomed it heartily. The previous eight years of my career I had been playing against pros or semi-pros at Test level. It was neither fair nor sustainable. But opening up the game then without regulation has caused serious problems. A bit like Communist Russia becoming a capitalist state in such a short period of time – such diversity and inequity. Reconciliation would take decades.

The second biggest shift in direction in world rugby happened last week. It was seismic in its nature and once again the people charged with governance and guidance failed abysmally. The brigands have routed structured order and have done so so convincingly that they are in control of rugby in the northern hemisphere.

Every time that I see or read something about the People's Popular Front of Judea it is Mark McCafferty who is telling me about it. A trouble-making pariah only a few months ago is now being lionised by the English media. He took our game to the brink without a mandate from anyone other than his shambles of an umbrella group, bluffed his hand and won. He even blinked when his bluff was called and he still got away with it. Incroyable!

When the game needed strong leadership with clarity of principle, the IRB mumbled, faffed, delegated and eventually abdicated all of its responsibilities. Brett Gosper and Bernard Lapasset refused to accept an empirically verifiable reality. They both sat in a darkened room, took an agnostic view and waited for a conclusion to the fighting. When it was all over, they both sent out press releases saying how happy they were that it was all over.

If the Union parties had won they were happy and if the buccaneers had won they were happy too. The tea lady in the IRB canteen would have had more gumption and testosterone than these afternoon tea lapdogs. A sedentary organisation.

The damage done is considerable but the victory is underpinned by the fact that, now encouraged by how easy it was to get their way, the club owners are likely to try to do whatever they want and know that they will get away with it. The crowing too has been insufferable.

In a recent interview Steve Vaughan, the CEO of Gloucester Rugby, said: "Now is not a time for gloating." He did go on to say that there would be a lot of hard work ahead and structures would have to be put in place and that there was quite a bit of detail to be attended to in the new European organisation. I for one did not miss the slip. The winners are gloating, whether they care to admit it or not. Maybe they are not gloating "now" but that is what they are thinking – a smug satisfaction. This from a man who sent a second XV to Thomond Park in Round 2 of the Heineken Cup. Peace on someone else's terms is not really a sound footing to start a new European enterprise but when they are braying and laughing at their vanquished opponents . . .

All during the last couple of weeks when I was looking for information it has been McCafferty who has been telling me what is being done and what direction the newco is going in. The new organisation will be based in the tax-advantageous Swiss canton of Neuchatel. McCafferty has said "the new body's independent chairman and director general will be tasked with adding a significant boost to European club rugby revenue."

One of the things McCafferty doesn't mention is that he was the chairman of the ERC commercial sub-committee until he decided to launch his Beer Hall Putsch. If he can double commercial revenues from €50m to €100m in five years – as he claims he will – I will take my hat off to him. Under his stewardship he didn't set off any sprinkler systems with the heat of any genius plans.

Maybe the idea of having the offices of the newco based in Switzerland is not a bad one. Australia is governed from Canberra, which is located on the border of New South Wales and Victoria because the federal states of Queensland, NSW and Victoria couldn't bear the thought of having their patch governed by one of the others.

There certainly was a clear sense from the other partners that an ERC body based in Dublin smacked of a closed order Murphia and there is a sense of schadenfreude with its disbandment and closure.

There will be logistical issues and even EU governance issues operating from Neuchatel. Any disciplinary issues will have to be dealt with in Switzerland; Zurich and Geneva are 153 and 122 kilometres away from Neuchatel. Hey the tax regime is favourable and the wine is good. Although no Irish need apply now.

Quite apart from the festering resentment that this farrago has caused, it has also led to serious strife within several unions and has ignited a load of fires underneath what seemed to be at the time solid foundations.

The Italian Federation had issues with their participation in the Rabo Pro12 which put everyone else's participation in that league under pressure. Quite often around the world countries explode in civil war when most people would not have the vaguest notion as to the underlying fault lines.

The Welsh are on a collision course with each other. Their problems are intractable and there does not seem to be a middle ground. They broke ranks first in the whole episode and are the ones who stand to lose the most.

There is no question that Scotland's and Italy's interests and influence in the Six Nations will diminish – and so too will that of Wales. As it is, Cardiff and the Dragons will be playing in the secondary competition this year but the Welsh clubs have been so poor in the league that it might get to the stage where they only have one European qualifier. That is what they went for. They only ever saw the money.

If the Pro 12 countries had any balls they would have insisted on some form of inclusion for the last play-off spot. As I write, the mighty Exeter and Begles Bordeaux occupy seventh place in the Aviva Premiership and Top 14. Stephen Jones of The Sunday Times said of the new competition "Less dross and fairer entry." I don't think so. The Rabo sides and in particular the Welsh sides should have insisted on a play-off between the next best Rabo sides and the winners of that Aviva/Top 14 play-off.

Begles Bordeaux finished third behind the Dragons in their Amlin pool and Exeter finished third behind Cardiff Blues in their Heineken Cup pool. Meritocracy my arse. It was always about the money and control and nothing else.

There will be five groups of four teams, the three best runners-up making up the quarter-finals. If you have an Italian team in your pool you are quids in. Can somebody explain to me the big differences? Why not just get rid of the Italians altogether? They bring nothing to the table anyway and sure who cares that they get whacked 70-0 in the Six Nations? The game is all about the clubs from now on.

On a sentimental note, the Heineken Cup will be parked somewhere, nobody knows where. The People's Popular Front of Judea will let us know in the fullness of time. A brand new cup will be commissioned by the PPFJ. All those great teams who strove and succeeded and went on to lift that Heineken Cup . . . well there will be an asterisk beside their names now. Nearly 20 years of building a tradition out the door on a whim.

Splitters!

to be fair Sine, he just sounds like a grumpy old man with an axe to grind.

Francis seems to get paid for going over old ground with nothing remotely interesting or insightful.
I like the irony of the WRU & IRFU getting all monies over the £20M to the R12 on the basis they provide more teams that presumably makes the league viable. They didn't feel that argument applied to the euro comps and indeed the money was only split evenly between participants as had been argued by the PRL and to a lesser extent the LNR.
The FFR got what they wanted, the breaking open of the closed shop in Dublin. Splitters!

Pot Hale wrote:...Persuade media that it was all the fault of the greedy Celts - Tick....

It's not much in the way of solace, but I don't think Wales, Ireland, Scotland or even Italy, came out of this affair looking greedy.

I don't disagree with the general drift of your checklist but I suspect the French and English clubs are still far more likely to be labelled greedy (especially the English).

nathan wrote:to be fair Sine, he just sounds like a grumpy old man with an axe to grind.

You would think that, wouldn't you!

Recwatcher wrote:Francis seems to get paid for going over old ground with nothing remotely interesting or insightful.
I like the irony of the WRU & IRFU getting all monies over the £20M to the R12 on the basis they provide more teams that presumably makes the league viable. They didn't feel that argument applied to the euro comps and indeed the money was only split evenly between participants as had been argued by the PRL and to a lesser extent the LNR.
The FFR got what they wanted,  the breaking open of the closed shop in Dublin.  Splitters!

Its a very good summary of what actually happened. It also points out that Scottish & Italian rugby are finished and Wales are doomed. Ireland will struggle, but its our nature to never give up.

The Unions up to now have been happy to split it equally per Union. The change has come about to help the loosing making Welsh clubs who are losing most of their players to France and England because they can't afford to compete. Its like sticking their finger in a dyke.

The French got what they wanted. Lets see how well run this competition is now from Switzerland. Be prepared for lots of guys getting away with eye gouging, their speciality.

What we will see is the end of professional rugby in Scotland and Italy. the vast increasses inmoney for the French and English will price the Scots and Italians out of the pro game. This will have catestrophic effects on the 6N. I also think gates for European matches will drop significantly.

Sin é wrote:

nathan wrote:to be fair Sine, he just sounds like a grumpy old man with an axe to grind.

You would think that, wouldn't you!

And you would think that wouldn't you

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:

nathan wrote:to be fair Sine, he just sounds like a grumpy old man with an axe to grind.

You would think that, wouldn't you!

And you would think that wouldn't you

Yea, I would say that for anyone dismissing an article that they don't agree with as 'just a grumpy old man'. A classic response from someone who is unable to counter the points made - just dismisses the author.

Neil Francis (bless his cotton socks) has managed to invoke Godwin's Law, quote Monty Python and sound like Victor Meldrew on a bad day. All in one article.

I can see now where some posters have been getting their material.

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:

nathan wrote:to be fair Sine, he just sounds like a grumpy old man with an axe to grind.

You would think that, wouldn't you!

And you would think that wouldn't you

Yea, I would say that for anyone dismissing an article that they don't agree with as 'just a grumpy old man'. A classic response from someone who is unable to counter the points made - just dismisses the author.

I think Neil Francis does sound life a bit of an old buffer. His opinions on rugby seem to come from a different era just like his views on gay people in sport.

Sin é wrote:

Recwatcher wrote:Francis seems to get paid for going over old ground with nothing remotely interesting or insightful.
I like the irony of the WRU & IRFU getting all monies over the £20M to the R12 on the basis they provide more teams that presumably makes the league viable. They didn't feel that argument applied to the euro comps and indeed the money was only split evenly between participants as had been argued by the PRL and to a lesser extent the LNR.
The FFR got what they wanted,  the breaking open of the closed shop in Dublin.  Splitters!

Its a very good summary of what actually happened. It also points out that Scottish & Italian rugby are finished and Wales are doomed. Ireland will struggle, but its our nature to never give up.

The Unions up to now have been happy to split it equally per Union. The change has come about to help the loosing making Welsh clubs who are losing most of their players to France and England because they can't afford to compete. Its like sticking their finger in a dyke.

The French got what they wanted. Lets see how well run this competition is now from Switzerland. Be prepared for lots of guys getting away with eye gouging, their speciality.

Considering the number of one eyed opinions floating around it would seem that the French already have been busy.

(Have to say even bringing gouging up in this context is a quite breathtaking piece of balls)

One of the main reasons why the French wanted the ERC out of Dublin. They felt they were harshly dealt with regard to disciplinary issues (for example, David Attoub got 70 weeks for gouging Ferris. Julien Dupuy got 6 months for also gouging Ferris).

Quote from Stade owner, Max Guazzini:

Stade owner Max Guazzini reacted furiously to the sentence by saying:

'It is a disproportionate decision, very political and anti-French. ERC wanted to make an example of an iconic Stade Francais player and of the French national side.'

Sin é wrote:One of the main reasons why the French wanted the ERC out of Dublin. They felt they were harshly dealt with regard to disciplinary issues (for example, David Attoub got 70 weeks for gouging Ferris.  Julien Dupuy got 6 months for also gouging Ferris).

Quote from Stade owner, Max Guazzini:

Stade owner Max Guazzini reacted furiously to the sentence by saying:

'It is a disproportionate decision, very political and anti-French. ERC wanted to make an example of an iconic Stade Francais player and of the French national side.'

And so you come to the conclusion that because its now based in Switzerland that they will favour the French?   

No. Because it is not based in Dublin under the eye of the IRB.

Sin é wrote:No. Because it is not based in Dublin under the eye of the IRB.

Huh?, you said for us to watch out for the French to get away eye gouging because its now based in Switzerland. That view is as bad as the French thinking the erc was biased towards the Irish.

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:

nathan wrote:to be fair Sine, he just sounds like a grumpy old man with an axe to grind.

You would think that, wouldn't you!

And you would think that wouldn't you

Yea, I would say that for anyone dismissing an article that they don't agree with as 'just a grumpy old man'. A classic response from someone who is unable to counter the points made - just dismisses the author.

Damn right I just dismiss the author, I've read articles from him before.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Doesn't sound like think the Pro12 negotiators are much kop then, PH.

Two years ago they were all bluff and bluster.
The Franglos failed in their mission to get full meritocracy, though.

They didn't want it. Only with no guaranteed places for any country would it be meritocratic. What that was code for was "handicap the Rabo teams"

nathan wrote:

Sin é wrote:No. Because it is not based in Dublin under the eye of the IRB.

Huh?, you said for us to watch out for the French to get away eye gouging because its now based in Switzerland. That view is as bad as the French thinking the erc was biased towards the Irish.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the ERC was favourable to the Irish (i.e., Munster getting 2 home semis out of 11 suggests the opposite), unlike the French being a bit soft on stuff like eye gouging (and you read the remarks of the Stade President above). Dublin getting only 2 finals over the years.

It doesn't matter where it is based as long as its away from Ireland.

Of course there was that little incident as well where the Irish rep. to the IRB resigned from a committee to select the next chief executive because of a lack of transparency in the selection process. (Good old Bill Beaumont was more than willing to take his place though)!

But why would it mean the French will get away with more eye gouging now? Unless you think that having it in Dublin does effect these rulings.