Support for Pontypridd and Attitudes Towards Valleys Rugby

First topic message reminder :

Now before we begin, I know as well as most of you know, that half of their fans and directors board are blinkered. But let's not take anything away from what the rugby team is doing out on the field. They're on for the Premiership, Swalec cup and the B&I Cup, the treble! I feel as if I admire them slightly, sticking two fingers up to our Union and playing rugby to a high standard. These guys are only part-time, so are at a disadvantage in the B&I Cup.

First up is the B&I quarter final where they face reigning champions Leinster A and are hoping home advantage will see them through. The winner of this game will face Bristol or Leeds (it's likely to be Bristol isn't it?) in the final. Good luck Ponty, you're gonna need it!

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: I have had to witness the WRU bailing the Scarlets out,.

The WRU have never "bailed out" the Scarlets or Llanelli.

Yes they have.

http://www.munsterfans.com/threads/821-Scarlets-considering-WRU-lifeline

Thanks. That supports my point.

The scarlets chose to sell to the WRU because the WRU offered the best commercial terms. In effect, they acted like a lender of last resort. Llanelli could have mortgaged the property on bank terms but that would have cost them more.

Better use of the term "bail out" is when it is applied to the match funding on share purchases or on unsecured loans - like the one given to Pontypridd RFC when they went into administration.

The Saint wrote:LD, are you just some massive attention seeker trying to wind people up?  

What the ff are you on about, it's people like you who boil my urine, so the Pontypridd fans should just accept what was done to them and that is it ? I would love to see how you would act if it was you in the same situation.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: I have had to witness the WRU bailing the Scarlets out,.

The WRU have never "bailed out" the Scarlets or Llanelli.

Yes they have.

http://www.munsterfans.com/threads/821-Scarlets-considering-WRU-lifeline

Thanks. That supports my point.

The scarlets chose to sell to the WRU because the WRU offered the best commercial terms. In effect, they acted like a lender of last resort. Llanelli could have mortgaged the property on bank terms but that would have cost them more.

Better use of the term "bail out" is when it is applied to the match funding on share purchases or on unsecured loans - like the one given to Pontypridd RFC when they went into administration.

You can word it as you like, it was the WRU that coughed up the money, if nobody else came in there would no longer be a Scarlets region, so the WRU saved your bacon.

boil your urine , so what I have said that Pontypridd fans should do then LD? Please enlighten us. I can tell you I don't hold grudges though, so I would have acted differently in such a situation .

LordDowlais wrote:i would suggest you compare how many people walk throught the turnstiles when yo play the Zebra's of this world, to when you play the Blues.

So what you really mean is our average gate is so swelled by a couple of derby games that it distorts how many thousands more fans attend Dragon's games than Ponty games ?

And the bit about Irish fans ? Saw less than 10 Connacht fans, a dozen Leinster and Munster fans and maybe 20 Ulster fans at Rodney parade.

Quite frankly sir, you are talking shoite

LordDowlais wrote:
You can word it as you like, it was the WRU that coughed up the money, if nobody else came in there would no longer be a Scarlets region, so the WRU saved your bacon.

Well no they would have just gone to the bank but it would have cost them a few more quid to repay.

Your "woe is me" attitude is unfortunately synonymous with Valleys rugby now I'm afraid. And these things take a while to rid.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
You can word it as you like, it was the WRU that coughed up the money, if nobody else came in there would no longer be a Scarlets region, so the WRU saved your bacon.

Well no they would have just gone to the bank but it would have cost them a few more quid to repay.

Your "woe is me" attitude is unfortunately synonymous with Valleys rugby now I'm afraid. And these things take a while to rid.

Stop talking rubbish, anyway I am not having a bun fight over this, none of you are in any position how to tell pontypridd fans to behave, until you have professional rugby taken off you, then you are not in a place to say anything, so when your region gets scrapped, we can continue this debate.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
You can word it as you like, it was the WRU that coughed up the money, if nobody else came in there would no longer be a Scarlets region, so the WRU saved your bacon.

Well no they would have just gone to the bank but it would have cost them a few more quid to repay.

Your "woe is me" attitude is unfortunately synonymous with Valleys rugby now I'm afraid. And these things take a while to rid.

Stop talking rubbish, anyway I am not having a bun fight over this, none of you are in any position how to tell pontypridd fans to behave, until you have professional rugby taken off you, then you are not in a place to say anything, so when your region gets scrapped, we can continue this debate.

It didn't get scrapped - YOU do not have the finaces or the infrastructure

Try and get them to come up with realistic solutions though and they can't. Try and get them to explain why the Regions aren't and you just get the same tiresome arguments, that are easily shot down.

It would just be nice to hear what Ponty would offer to pro rugby, rather than nonsense like we've beaten three pro teams this season or we allegedly would represent the whole of the worldwide valleys, or we took 95,000 supporters down to Cornwall.

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
You can word it as you like, it was the WRU that coughed up the money, if nobody else came in there would no longer be a Scarlets region, so the WRU saved your bacon.

Well no they would have just gone to the bank but it would have cost them a few more quid to repay.

Your "woe is me" attitude is unfortunately synonymous with Valleys rugby now I'm afraid. And these things take a while to rid.

Stop talking rubbish, anyway I am not having a bun fight over this, none of you are in any position how to tell pontypridd fans to behave, until you have professional rugby taken off you, then you are not in a place to say anything, so when your region gets scrapped, we can continue this debate.

It didn't get scrapped - YOU do not have the finaces or the infrastructure

I hear their burger van is nice, if you don't mind a bit of spittle in it as the chef rants on about "I'll never be a blue", as he's cooking it.

I do not think that Valleys rugby should get another chance,YET. We had our chance albeit not much of a chance, I think it is now time for North Wales to be given a go. But for people on here to criticise the Ponty fans, and at the time the CW were in the same postion as all the other regions, when if it had happened to them they would act the same, for me is a little unfair.

Stone Motif wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
You can word it as you like, it was the WRU that coughed up the money, if nobody else came in there would no longer be a Scarlets region, so the WRU saved your bacon.

Well no they would have just gone to the bank but it would have cost them a few more quid to repay.

Your "woe is me" attitude is unfortunately synonymous with Valleys rugby now I'm afraid. And these things take a while to rid.

Stop talking rubbish, anyway I am not having a bun fight over this, none of you are in any position how to tell pontypridd fans to behave, until you have professional rugby taken off you, then you are not in a place to say anything, so when your region gets scrapped, we can continue this debate.

It didn't get scrapped - YOU do not have the finaces or the infrastructure

neither did the Dragons.

LordDowlais wrote:I do not think that Valleys rugby should get another chance,YET. We had our chance albeit not much of a chance, I think it is now time for North Wales to be given a go. But for people on here to criticise the Ponty fans, and at the time the CW were in the same postion as all the other regions, when if it had happened to them they would act the same, for me is a little unfair.

I know where you are coming from LD, in your arse backwards kind of way, but I won't get involved in this debate as the subject has been done to death a million times.

Mods, can we get a tiny violin icon please ? Diolch !

I'm not sure what you want Dowlais, a mass forum apology ?

I'll say sorry for having no involvement in the Celtic Warriors being disbanded if you apologise for making ridiculous statements regarding the Dragon's attendances ?

Ready ? 3, 2,1...

Cardiff Dave wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I do not think that Valleys rugby should get another chance,YET. We had our chance albeit not much of a chance, I think it is now time for North Wales to be given a go. But for people on here to criticise the Ponty fans, and at the time the CW were in the same postion as all the other regions, when if it had happened to them they would act the same, for me is a little unfair.

I know where you are coming from LD, in your arse backwards kind of way, but I won't get involved in this debate as the subject has been done to death a million times.

As long as I keep hereing comments on how people have no time for Pontypridd supporters and people calling us idiots, then I will always point out the fact, that as long as these people do not have to go through what we went through, then they are in no position to pass comment.

Also, I understand the frustration the Cardiff Blues get when some of the Ponty fans air their bitterness towards them, but if it was the other way around, then you would have cardiff fans behaving the same.

munkian wrote:Mods, can we get a tiny violin icon please ? Diolch !

I'm not sure what you want Dowlais, a mass forum apology ?

I'll say sorry for having no involvement in the Celtic Warriors being disbanded if you apologise for making ridiculous statements regarding the Dragon's attendances ?

Ready ? 3, 2,1...

I apologise for it, although I will admit I was dragged off into a different argument because of the spitefull attitudes of some of the posters on here, but my intention from the start was, to make people aware that they have not been through what the Ponty supporters have been through, so they are not in a position to have a go at them.

What happened to the Valleys Rugby plan that was kicking about a while back, that was pretty much locally/supporter funded wasn't it, so no need for the WRU to get involved.

LordDowlais wrote:

munkian wrote:Mods, can we get a tiny violin icon please ? Diolch !

I'm not sure what you want Dowlais, a mass forum apology ?

I'll say sorry for having no involvement in the Celtic Warriors being disbanded if you apologise for making ridiculous statements regarding the Dragon's attendances ?

Ready ? 3, 2,1...

I apologise for it, although I will admit I was dragged off into a different argument because of the spitefull attitudes of some of the posters on here, but my intention from the start was, to make people aware that they have not been through what the Ponty supporters have been through, so they are not in a position to have a go at them.

Why just Ponty supporters ?

Surely the Warriors had other feeder clubs ? My mate is from Bridgend and he's moved on and supports all the regions

Irish Londoner wrote:What happened to the Valleys Rugby plan that was kicking about a while back, that was pretty much locally/supporter funded wasn't it, so no need for the WRU to get involved.

Died a death when they realised it was pie in the sky stuff.

The MP got re-elected to parliament though, so not all was lost!

munkian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

munkian wrote:Mods, can we get a tiny violin icon please ? Diolch !

I'm not sure what you want Dowlais, a mass forum apology ?

I'll say sorry for having no involvement in the Celtic Warriors being disbanded if you apologise for making ridiculous statements regarding the Dragon's attendances ?

Ready ? 3, 2,1...

I apologise for it, although I will admit I was dragged off into a different argument because of the spitefull attitudes of some of the posters on here, but my intention from the start was, to make people aware that they have not been through what the Ponty supporters have been through, so they are not in a position to have a go at them.

Why just Ponty supporters ?

Surely the Warriors had other feeder clubs ? My mate is from Bridgend and he's moved on and supports all the regions

Yes, you are right. I was a Warrior fan from Merthyr, I have always followed Ponty though as they were my closest first class rugby team, I do not go to Sardis anywhere near as much anymore, but I know how passionate the Pontypridd people are, and the people from the Rhondda who support them, the feel as though they have been shafted, not just by the WRU, but by the other clubs who got their own way at the start, so I can sympathise with them, they are not idiots, neither are the Newport or Cardiff or Llanelli or any other clubs fans, I am luck enough now that I have moved on to be able to cherry pick my games each season as I now support all four regions, but unless you have felt the pain the Warrior fans had to go through how can people get upon their soap box and have a go at the Ponty fans ?

Because the Ponty fans aren't doing anything constructive and just add the parochial mess that is Welsh regional rugby.

Pontypool is 16 minutes on the train to Newport. Rodney parade is 10 minutes from Newport station. Go and support a Welsh region ffs

munkian wrote:Because the Ponty fans aren't doing anything constructive and just add the parochial mess that is Welsh regional rugby.

Pontypool is 16 minutes on the train to Newport. Rodney parade is 10 minutes from Newport station. Go and support a Welsh region ffs

And that is the exact attitude that winds people up, you have never lost your region, so that is very easy for you to say, until you have lost something that you support then you are in no position to tell people to do that. Some of the fans, like myself will go out and support all the regions, but I will never feel an affiliation to any of the regions, I just cannot link to them, what I do like though is watching Welsh rugby and each season, if there is a game on that weekend that I fancy, I will try and go and watch it, the way I see it, watching pro rugby is better than watching no rugby, so please just show a little empathy before you get on your high horse and tell people to support a welsh region ffs.

Seriously, they were a new franchise that lasted a season and were disbanded 10 years ago - how much affinity can people have with them ?

Its parochial rubbish

munkian wrote:Seriously, they were a new franchise that lasted a season and were disbanded 10 years ago - how much affinity can people have with them ?

Its parochial rubbish

Whats the difference, Newport fans still support the Dragons, in Rodney Parade, Llanelli still support the Scarlets in llanelli, Cardiff Blues still support Cardiff in the Arms Park, and Swansea still support the Ospreys in Swansea, if you want parochial look no further than what we have at the moment, the only difference is, people like myself will still go and watch them, but for every one of me the are a thousand Ponty fans who still feel hurt. Look, I am not getting into an argument over this like as said earlier, it has been done to death, just before we go throwing stones, just take a few moments to consider the fact that you have not been through what other fans have.

Again, I'm not a 'Newport' fan, I'm a Dragons season ticket supporter and make nearly every home game travelling over from Bristol

These hurt Ponty fans are adults, they should be able to get over a one year relationship that ended a decade ago.

munkian wrote:Again, I'm not a 'Newport' fan, I'm a Dragons season ticket supporter and make nearly every home game travelling over from Bristol

These hurt Ponty fans are adults, they should be able to get over a one year relationship that ended a decade ago.

But they do not see it as that, they still see Cardiff,Newport,Llanelli and Swansea, and lets be honest, is there a difference, how would you feel if first class rugby was taken away from you ? Perhaps you would go and support another team, but I bet there would be a thousand Newport fans feeling just as hurt as the Ponty fans, so instead of preaching, just try and understand where they are comming from.

munkian wrote:Again, I'm not a 'Newport' fan, I'm a Dragons season ticket supporter and make nearly every home game travelling over from Bristol

These hurt Ponty fans are adults, they should be able to get over a one year relationship that ended a decade ago.

  

LordDowlais wrote:

munkian wrote:Because the Ponty fans aren't doing anything constructive and just add the parochial mess that is Welsh regional rugby.

Pontypool is 16 minutes on the train to Newport. Rodney parade is 10 minutes from Newport station. Go and support a Welsh region ffs

And that is the exact attitude that winds people up, you have never lost your region, so that is very easy for you to say, until you have lost something that you support then you are in no position to tell people to do that. Some of the fans, like myself will go out and support all the regions, but I will never feel an affiliation to any of the regions, I just cannot link to them, what I do like though is watching Welsh rugby and each season, if there is a game on that weekend that I fancy, I will try and go and watch it, the way I see it, watching pro rugby is better than watching no rugby, so please just show a little empathy before you get on your high horse and tell people to support a welsh region ffs.

You never lost your region, you didn't have the finances and the infrastructure, hence the Dragons exist as a pro outfit (all thanks to the £1 share held by the WRU for the cretins amongst us), and Ponty do not. Ponty can't support a Lidl let alone a professional sports franchise.

As a matter of interest what were the attendances like for the Warriors - I'll assume that the Ponty support transferred to them but did they get in extra support from the other valley sides?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003%E2%80%9304_Celtic_League

It looked comparable to the other Welsh regions at the time

IronMike wrote:From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003%E2%80%9304_Celtic_League

It looked comparable to the other Welsh regions at the time

Unfortunately, the private investment for them was a lot less comparable, as in it was more or less zilch

Stone, do you know anything about the investment into the regions ? If you do could please enlighten us, also could you also please care to explain why and how the WRU have come to own part of the Dragons and how much money they put into there business ?

Irish Londoner wrote:As a matter of interest what were the attendances like for the Warriors - I'll assume that the Ponty support transferred to them but did they get in extra support from the other valley sides?

As you're interested and it's something to consider, the Celtic Warriors played only 3 league games at Sardis. The rest, including all of their European pool games, were staged at The Brewery Field in Bridgend.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:As a matter of interest what were the attendances like for the Warriors - I'll assume that the Ponty support transferred to them but did they get in extra support from the other valley sides?

As you're interested and it's something to consider, the Celtic Warriors played only 3 league games at Sardis. The rest, including all of their European pool games, were staged at The Brewery Field in Bridgend.

And Ponty fans refused to go and support them, well a lot did because they wanted it all at Sardis.

LordDowlais wrote:Stone, do you know anything about the investment into the regions ? If you do could please enlighten us, also could you also please care to explain why and how the WRU have come to own part of the Dragons and how much money they put into there business ?

He already has.

The WRU don't put anything into us, or we'd not have been forced to be living within our means for so long. I'm sure the other regions wouldn't be too chuffed if they were funding us either. Not sure why you are still confused over this "ownership" by the WRU still?

Risca Rev wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Stone, do you know anything about the investment into the regions ? If you do could please enlighten us, also could you also please care to explain why and how the WRU have come to own part of the Dragons and how much money they put into there business ?

He already has.

The WRU don't put anything into us, or we'd not have been forced to be living within our means for so long. I'm sure the other regions wouldn't be too chuffed if they were funding us either. Not sure why you are still confused over this "ownership" by the WRU still?

I am not confused, I am just trying to make a point, Stone is saying that the CW did not have enough money and that Pontypridd could not support a Lidl's, which might be correct, but if it was any different for the Dragons why did the WRU have to purchase half the region ?

*sigh*

From Wiki

The team itself performed well for a squad almost completely rebuilt over the summer, acquitting themselves well in both the Celtic League and European Rugby Cup. However financial problems at Pontypridd RFC led to the sale of their half of the Warriors to Bridgend RFC owner Leighton Samuel, which he in turn gave to the WRU, a move that would later condemn the club. Further problems occurred as Samuel made the decision to abandon Pontypridd's Sardis Road in favour of playing all Warriors games in Bridgend. This brought the club into conflict with a large proportion of its fan base and attendances fell.

Trouble followed in the Spring and early Summer of 2004 where Leighton Samuel repeatedly threatened and revoked threats of selling the club; one such instance went as far as Samuel accepting an offer from the WRU before changing his mind. This transaction was considered to be legally binding, and the Warriors became 100% owned by the WRU who decided to liquidate the club on 1 June 2004.[1]

So, you WERE offered something from the WRU but turned it down.

They did take the WRU's offer, they then liquidated us, thus scrapping the region, lets not forget the WRU at the time only wanted four regions, so they took the opportunity to scrap one. The Dragons fans better hope that the WRU do not think along these lines again when they get the North Wales region up to speed.

Trouble followed in the Spring and early Summer of 2004 where Leighton Samuel repeatedly threatened and revoked threats of selling the club; one such instance went as far as Samuel accepting an offer from the WRU before changing his mind.

Not according to this ?

What point are you trying to make Munkian ? We all know what happened, the WRU stepped in, we all thought they would bail us out, but they didn't they scrapped us, that is the fact of the matter, we know all this, so what are you trying to say ?

You keep banging on that the Dragons were bought/bailed out/saved by the WRU

My point is that the Warriors were also made an offer by the WRU but turned it down.

The Dragons won't be scrapped like the Warriors, especially for a North region as we are much more financially stable

munkian wrote:You keep banging on that the Dragons were bought/bailed out/saved by the WRU

My point is that the Warriors were also made an offer by the WRU but turned it down.

The Dragons won't be scrapped like the Warriors, especially for a North region as we are much more financially stable

LS turned it down as he knew what the outcome would be, scrapping the region, when the inevitable happened, guess what, the region was scrapped, what makes you think that the Dragons are more financially stable, if they were you would not be half owned by the WRU, and as 5 does not fit into 4, the only region that the WRU could have any influence on is the Dragons, because they are part owners of the region.

Why would the WRU offer the region money then scrap it ?

Why are the Dragons more financially stable than the Warriors or Ponty ?

Well, at the the start Newport RFC were one of the most highly attended clubs in the UK. Was a safe bet we'd have a decent following and get bums on seats

We spend within our means and build within our means unlike some other regions

We are sponsored by local businesses and are fairly central in a city with half decent transport links.

What else do you want ?

You really aren't going to get any support for Ponty by slagging off other fan's regions, especially the Dragons when you are supposed to be a Blues feeder club.

Hang on a minute, I am not slagging any regions off, you are the one goading me into a bun fight between the regions.

Firstly the WRU only wanted 4 regions, they could not afford to take all the clubs to court over it, but they could afford to buy out the CW thus they were given their chance to cull the regions down to 4.

Now the fact that the clubs in the first place threatened to take the WRU to court and threw their toys out of the pram at the start of regionalism is the reason why the Pontypridd fans feel shafted, lets not forget, Newport were supposed to merge with Cardiff at the start, but that did not happen, you may spen within your means at the moment but you were not financialy viable because if you were the WRU would not have needed to purchase half your region.

The only reason why the Dragons have come into this argument is because the Dragons fans came on here and started having a go at the Pontypridd fans in the first place, you have no empathy towards the Ponty fans and what they have been through, if it was the Dragons that were scrapped at the start then I would bet my mortgage that there would would be a thousand Newport fans acting just the same.

They'd still be watching Newport RFC I imagine.

munkian wrote:They'd still be watching Newport RFC I imagine.

 
Just like the Pontypridd fans are still watching Pontypridd.

But claiming 'they'd beat the Dragons' or deserve a region based around them.

munkian wrote:But claiming 'they'd beat the Dragons' or deserve a region based around them.

If it had happened to the Dragons at the start instead of Warriors, wouldn't you think you would get Newport fans acting the same ?

Look, I know it is frustrating, and annoying, but the Dragons supporters have not had to go through what the Pontypridd fans had to go through, so instead of having a go at the Ponty fans try to understand where they are comming from.

LordDowlais wrote:

munkian wrote:But claiming 'they'd beat the Dragons' or deserve a region based around them.

If it had happened to the Dragons at the start instead of Warriors, wouldn't you think you would get Newport fans acting the same ?

Look, I know it is frustrating, and annoying, but the Dragons supporters have not had to go through what the Pontypridd fans had to go through, so instead of having a go at the Ponty fans try to understand where they are comming from.

Shifting the goal posts yet again. The original 'dig' was a deserved criticism of a Ponty Director slagging off the regions yet again whilst his club are perfectly happy to accept thousands of pounds worth of player salaries from the most hated targets of his vitriol. Try to show some empathy for the long-suffering regional supporters (particularly Blues fans) who have to put up with this tirade of blame, entitlement, ingratitude and self importance, which Ponty fans haven't had to with their cushty seat in the goldfish bowl.

What goal posts am I shifting Stone ? I also see you chose to ignore my earlier question I asked you on this thread.