Will Murray make the WTF?

First topic message reminder :

With approaching half the season gone Andy currently sits 13th in the race, having played a lot of tournaments. The likelihood is that he will not improve during the clay swing. He is only currently 300 points behind Grigor in 8th but a massive 700 points behind Ferrer. Without starting to win things that gap will not be easy to close (and both are likely to extend on the clay).

On present form, I think it's highly unlikely Andy will make it. To me, he still looks hampered by the back and I wonder if we have seen the last of him as a top 4 player. Do people see him making significant improvements over the latter half of the year?

Silver wrote:Oops, my mistake BS - ta. As you and IC say, it was easier last year when the points were less spread out.

Time will tell, and with IC's list we also have Berdych lurking. It's a strong set of players closely packed together, going to be another nail-biter right up to the O2!

Oops I completely forgot berdych, he is another big danger too, Murray is virtually competing with 5 players for 1 slot certainly not going to be easy.

The Special Juan wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:It sickens me that Raonic will make it and Murray won't.  But as I stated earlier, there's 3000 points up for grabs for Murray.  Plenty of time yet.

3000 points for Murray to grab, but others can grab 2000 points easily as well so even if Murray makes 2500 points outta 3000 he might still see himself out.

There will be an interesting fight for the top place between Nole and Roger so they both will be eyeing the maximum points as well, which means Murray will find it very difficult to get the complete 3000 points, unless Rafa withdraws I don't see Murray making it.

Btw I don't like Roanic's style of play either, but there is no doubt he has had a stellar season, it was pointed out by one commentator that he was the only player in this year to make more than 6 QF appearance on masters level and I guess he equally did that in GS level too, he has become the modern era David Ferrer.

That's a good point IC, if Fed and Djok are battling for the top spot then titles may be hard to come by.  I don't think either of them play Tokyo where Murray goes but the Masters will be duked for, as will Basel.  What can I say, I'm just an optimist!!  Paris could be one of the biggest tournaments this year.

Will Djoko play Shanghai? I thought his baby was due about then. That would be the Masters i would target if i were Andy.

invisiblecoolers wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:It sickens me that Raonic will make it and Murray won't.  But as I stated earlier, there's 3000 points up for grabs for Murray.  Plenty of time yet.

3000 points for Murray to grab, but others can grab 2000 points easily as well so even if Murray makes 2500 points outta 3000 he might still see himself out.

There will be an interesting fight for the top place between Nole and Roger so they both will be eyeing the maximum points as well, which means Murray will find it very difficult to get the complete 3000 points, unless Rafa withdraws I don't see Murray making it.

Btw I don't like Roanic's style of play either, but there is no doubt he has had a stellar season, it was pointed out by one commentator that he was the only player in this year to make more than 6 QF appearance on masters level and I guess he equally did that in GS level too, he has become the modern era David Ferrer.

That's a good point IC, if Fed and Djok are battling for the top spot then titles may be hard to come by.  I don't think either of them play Tokyo where Murray goes but the Masters will be duked for, as will Basel.  What can I say, I'm just an optimist!!  Paris could be one of the biggest tournaments this year.

Actually I feel its something good for Murray if he doesn't qualify for WTF, he can then use his time to plan 2015 better, also if will signal a big alarm that he has to step up and be a player of late 2012 and mid 2013 if not he won't make it, he needs a strong message to realize his full potential.

On the other hand if he plays stellar and qualifies that mean he has already taken it very seriously which again is a good sign, so whatever Murray should only qualify by his quality of merit and I hope he doesn't qualify based on somebodies withdrawal.

It's a good idea in principle but unfortunately, after the WTF most of the top players will be jetting off to India for some weird exhibition tournament. Ridiculous.

Born Slippy wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:It sickens me that Raonic will make it and Murray won't.  But as I stated earlier, there's 3000 points up for grabs for Murray.  Plenty of time yet.

3000 points for Murray to grab, but others can grab 2000 points easily as well so even if Murray makes 2500 points outta 3000 he might still see himself out.

There will be an interesting fight for the top place between Nole and Roger so they both will be eyeing the maximum points as well, which means Murray will find it very difficult to get the complete 3000 points, unless Rafa withdraws I don't see Murray making it.

Btw I don't like Roanic's style of play either, but there is no doubt he has had a stellar season, it was pointed out by one commentator that he was the only player in this year to make more than 6 QF appearance on masters level and I guess he equally did that in GS level too, he has become the modern era David Ferrer.

That's a good point IC, if Fed and Djok are battling for the top spot then titles may be hard to come by.  I don't think either of them play Tokyo where Murray goes but the Masters will be duked for, as will Basel.  What can I say, I'm just an optimist!!  Paris could be one of the biggest tournaments this year.

Will Djoko play Shanghai? I thought his baby was due about then. That would be the Masters i would target if i were Andy.

That too is a good point. I heard the commentator yesterday mentioning "if Djokovic plays Shanghai" and I was wondering why but you've reminded me. I don't think he will then.

The Special Juan wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:It sickens me that Raonic will make it and Murray won't.  But as I stated earlier, there's 3000 points up for grabs for Murray.  Plenty of time yet.

3000 points for Murray to grab, but others can grab 2000 points easily as well so even if Murray makes 2500 points outta 3000 he might still see himself out.

There will be an interesting fight for the top place between Nole and Roger so they both will be eyeing the maximum points as well, which means Murray will find it very difficult to get the complete 3000 points, unless Rafa withdraws I don't see Murray making it.

Btw I don't like Roanic's style of play either, but there is no doubt he has had a stellar season, it was pointed out by one commentator that he was the only player in this year to make more than 6 QF appearance on masters level and I guess he equally did that in GS level too, he has become the modern era David Ferrer.

That's a good point IC, if Fed and Djok are battling for the top spot then titles may be hard to come by.  I don't think either of them play Tokyo where Murray goes but the Masters will be duked for, as will Basel.  What can I say, I'm just an optimist!!  Paris could be one of the biggest tournaments this year.

Actually I feel its something good for Murray if he doesn't qualify for WTF, he can then use his time to plan 2015 better, also if will signal a big alarm that he has to step up and be a player of late 2012 and mid 2013 if not he won't make it, he needs a strong message to realize his full potential.

On the other hand if he plays stellar and qualifies that mean he has already taken it very seriously which again is a good sign, so whatever Murray should only qualify by his quality of merit and I hope he doesn't qualify based on somebodies withdrawal.

It's a good idea in principle but unfortunately, after the WTF most of the top players will be jetting off to India for some weird exhibition tournament.  Ridiculous.

oh is that exibition really happening? I thought was making jokes of IPL.

summerblues wrote:An oddity that just caught my eye is that the only slam where Andy made SF this year is RG.

I think he only made one non-slam SF too which was Acapulco.

The irony about RG is that not only was is it his weakest surface, it's the only slam he played with no coach (and also oddly to my mind, the one where he seemed most composed). Obviously the draw helped...

I'm fairly sure he won't make it now - I don't see any reason to think he's suddenly going to win Shanghai when he hasn't been winning anywhere else. And he'll be outside the top 8 seeds (barring multiple withdrawals), so no bye and potentially a top seed in R3.

And without a Masters win or final, he now needs too many other players to slip up.

YvonneT wrote:I'm fairly sure he won't make it now - I don't see any reason to think he's suddenly going to win Shanghai when he hasn't been winning anywhere else. And he'll be outside the top 8 seeds (barring multiple withdrawals), so no bye and potentially a top seed in R3.

And without a Masters win or final, he now needs too many other players to slip up.

+1

invisiblecoolers wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:It sickens me that Raonic will make it and Murray won't.  But as I stated earlier, there's 3000 points up for grabs for Murray.  Plenty of time yet.

3000 points for Murray to grab, but others can grab 2000 points easily as well so even if Murray makes 2500 points outta 3000 he might still see himself out.

There will be an interesting fight for the top place between Nole and Roger so they both will be eyeing the maximum points as well, which means Murray will find it very difficult to get the complete 3000 points, unless Rafa withdraws I don't see Murray making it.

Btw I don't like Roanic's style of play either, but there is no doubt he has had a stellar season, it was pointed out by one commentator that he was the only player in this year to make more than 6 QF appearance on masters level and I guess he equally did that in GS level too, he has become the modern era David Ferrer.

That's a good point IC, if Fed and Djok are battling for the top spot then titles may be hard to come by.  I don't think either of them play Tokyo where Murray goes but the Masters will be duked for, as will Basel.  What can I say, I'm just an optimist!!  Paris could be one of the biggest tournaments this year.

Actually I feel its something good for Murray if he doesn't qualify for WTF, he can then use his time to plan 2015 better, also if will signal a big alarm that he has to step up and be a player of late 2012 and mid 2013 if not he won't make it, he needs a strong message to realize his full potential.

On the other hand if he plays stellar and qualifies that mean he has already taken it very seriously which again is a good sign, so whatever Murray should only qualify by his quality of merit and I hope he doesn't qualify based on somebodies withdrawal.

It's a good idea in principle but unfortunately, after the WTF most of the top players will be jetting off to India for some weird exhibition tournament.  Ridiculous.

oh is that exibition really happening? I thought was making jokes of IPL.

I hope it is not happening and if it does that Murray does not take part. He spoke the other day about having to manage his schedule. I don't see going off to Asia in the off season as doing that even if it is only for a very short period.

Can some body post some thread to clarify about this Asian exhibition and stuff, I remember long time back a topic was opened, but most of thought it was plain wummery, seems like thats not the case.

I wouldn't be surprised if rafa didn't come back this year 2bh.

IC, here is the original thread from hawkeye if you want to revive it:
https://www.606v2.com/t42666-is-this-fast-enough-for-you-new-twenty20-style-tennis

And the IPTL website:
http://www.premiertennisleague.com/

It looks like it's on, but I wouldn't be surprised if it still didn't take off this year.

When this thread was started I thought he would make it quite easily, but he has very much underperformed the grass/HC stretch from after RG to the USO.

Still, it is on his racquet even now, and while he needs good results I do not think he needs anything that would have been overly difficult for him in the years past.  It is just that it is unclear whether he can get those results this year.

I still think the odds are better than even that he will make it, but not by much.

Also, he will be 28 next year, so unless he returns to his previous form rather quickly, he will probably never return there.  I think he can have 1-2 years at his very top max, so any time wasted in getting back to his best will be dearly missed.

First. Great to see Nishikori win - I remember him getting ridiculously poor comments after losing to Murray two years ago - but I reminded everyone that a big heart outweighs a big game every day, taken over a career. I seriously expect him to be a contender for the next few years - he could easily pick up half a dozen slams, simply because the best of the mid to late twenty somethings are still Nole and Rafa and they will be gone soon

Second. Pleased for Cilic, who along with the injury prone Del Potro, should have more titles  - I mean if Raonic can reach six QF's...........!!!****

Third. Andy, for the WTF, has no chance. It's interesting that he obviously thinks he has  no chance either, i.e. his "I'm not altering my schedule" comments. And I think it would be good for him to miss the event and just get a bit fitter. Quite pleased that it looks like we could get a pretty good version of the 2009-2011 player and I'd wager that if he plays like that next year, he can win a slam - simply because his three mountains are no longer as forbidding

2015 - I'm not convinced we can give a cert for any GS winner (I read that Tarango thinks that Fed, who hasn't won any of the last 10 slams, is the best bet for the next three Wimby's WTF!!!). However, I won't be betting against Rafa at RG - the rest is a lottery


Well done Marin and Kei

He quite clearly has a chance. He shouldn't run out of energy in bo3 and his form looks strong. If Novak isn't playing, I think with his history in Shanghai he has a great chance to win there.

I am very positive about his prospects next year. He probably has 3-4 more years at the top if the back doesn't fail him and I would be surprised if he is not challenging for slams next year. Getting to the wtf is only important to maximise his points and set him up to be back in the top 4 post-Oz.

The massive IF is fitness. IF Murray can get back to reasonably full fitness then he's still much better than your Cilics, Nishikoris, Dimitrovs and boring Miloses. IF not, I can see him retiring before 30 or switching to doubles. What's the point in playing on if your game has gone completely?

(You can bring up Hewitt as an example but he loves playing. I have never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever looked at Murray during a match, winning or losing, and thought "he looks like he's having a good time".)

Yeah, that's the key question. He looks to have been hitting the backhand a lot easier than in the last few years so I'm optimistic that the back is improved and its just a lack of training causing the current fitness issues. As i said on another thread it will be Oz 15 when I think we can properly assess if he will ever be a grand slam winner again.

I don't see a reason why we should be worried if he doesn't make the WTF, that is no way going to affect his legacy nor his slam winning potential in the upcoming years.

The loss is for the fans to not see him in action during the WTF in home turf, but for Murray the greater picture is to reassess himself and find a solution to achieve his dream no.1 slot in the future.

Murray is at 11th place at the moment on Race, and he is chased narrowly by Tsonga and Gulbis.