Group D - Uruguay, Costa Rica, England & Italy

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Discuss all things Group D here.

It's difficult to see how a mass culling from top to bottom would benefit England in time for the next world cup.

I just feel there are too many average players in the team and squad.

We have a clutch coming through now that look like they have that extra bit of skill and ability on the pitch and an air of arrogance to use those skills.

Players like Jagielka arent top class centre backs of old like Keown, Butcher, Adams Campbell. Those players were not only class players but big guys and bullies who looked after their defence. We are missing someone like that at the back.

We need a big bruiser to play alongside Cahill.

We need to play at the tempo of the premiership. We all here the stories..."quickest league" in the world etc...well why do we play like snails when England meet up.

Lots of improvments required.

I'm watching the build up to the match now, and as ever, the fans have turned out in numbers and despite the massive let down of it all, are still in high spirits and are wearing their colours with pride.  

Some Costa Rican fans may snigger behind their hands at the English supporters.  Some may even taunt them and that might hurt... but they won't let it show. England fans are a bit more stoic than that.

And you know summat...... since this debacle began just over a week ago, I can't think of any one instance where a member of the England team or management has said "Sorry" to the supporters for YET AGAIN letting them down.

There have been weasel words about how the players are hurting and how they did their best.  No honest, we really did our best.  We couldn't have tried any harder.  What are you looking like that at me for....?  Don't you believe me...??

Roy Hodgson is talking about the future and ok,  that's the right thing to do right now, but when this game is over I would like to see the players.... every single one of them in the squad, including those who didn't play, go to the supporters and thank them.   And not just with a few desultory, half-hearted claps from the halfway line before disappearing down the tunnel.

No, they should actually go up close to the England fans and take some time to apologise, to thank them for their commitment and unwavering support, and then they should promise to try harder in future and really mean it.

The travelling England fans have, as usual, given everything despite being given an ignoring-to by Team England.  The players have wallowed in self pity and forgotten that there are people out there who have spent large amounts of money..... used their annual holiday time.... perhaps paid over the odds to buy touted tickets..... some have lived and slept rough and have travelled all over Brazil to follow this hapless collection of spoiled rotten multi millionaires who just take them for granted.

There seems to me to be a disconnect between the England team and the fans and that alone isn't the reason why the team has failed so badly, but it is indicative of the deeper problem.  

When the players can re-connect with the fans they may also, in the process, re-discover some of the grit, determination, resolution, fortitude and "die-for-the-shirt" fire in the belly that was once the hallmark of English football.  

In the fullness of time, the skills will be alright, England.   But now you've got to show us that you've got some FIGHT.

The skill's alright, England. Now show us that you've got some FIGHT

Four Lions thats the part thats been lacking for a long time now as the millionaires cant be bothered to play for England.

People might have laughed at Gazza crying after the booking in 1990 but that single minute showed how much he wanted to play for England. How many of the current squad would show that passion....not many i would say!

The Fourth Lion wrote:I'm watching the build up to the match now, and as ever, the fans have turned out in numbers and despite the massive let down of it all, are still in high spirits and are wearing their colours with pride.  

You've got to show us that you've got some FIGHT.

I wish to echo your words.

If the lads won't show their fight when in play then stop wasting our time.
I feel sorry for those that have spent so much only to witness humiliation.
Just seen Roy's facial expressions 82 mins in; says it all really, beyond grim and disastrous.

I agree that the England players should apologise strenuously, genuinely, for their diabolically bad playing.
I know many people who are sick and tired of England's reliable failure and yet they still wear their England tops.

hampo171 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

hampo171 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:One can only hope that that cheating pillock doesn't take part at the World Cup.

(And if the surgery goes wrong and he never plays again...so much the better)

Daftest post I've seen on these boards since D4 was a member of the boxing section.

He is utter, utter scum in a footballing sense.

Football would be better off without him.

Again, a stupid stupid comment. Plenty of players dive just as much as he does, plenty of players in the past have used their hand to get an advantage (Henry anyone?) To say football would be better off without one of the best players in the world today is just stupid.

He certainly isn't an angel but he is fantastic to watch when he is on form, he can do things certain players can only dream of.

I wonder why it was a "stupid, stupid comment"?

Cesare Prandelli has offered to quit as Italy manager. The Italian FA will consider whether to accept it or not in the next week.

So did Bert Van Marwijk after his shambles at Holland. Roy needs to follow suit.

John wrote:So did Bert Van Marwijk after his shambles at Holland. Roy needs to follow suit.

Is right. No more of this passing the buck onto the players (majority of which play in the CL) or 'transitional tournament'. Greece, Columbia, Chile and Costa Rica are through. How many of them have the quality of players England do?

He needs to take responsibility (and not just by saying it and not really meaning it). He won't though. He never has. And he (along with the media) will continue to pull the wool over people's eyes.

liverbnz wrote:

John wrote:So did Bert Van Marwijk after his shambles at Holland. Roy needs to follow suit.

Is right. No more of this passing the buck onto the players (majority of which play in the CL) or 'transitional tournament'. Greece, Columbia, Chile and Costa Rica are through. How many of them have the quality of players England do?

He needs to take responsibility (and not just by saying it and not really meaning it). He won't though. He never has. And he (along with the media) will continue to pull the wool over people's eyes.

Whilst i personally would favour Roy going...he's not just passing the buck. The players have been truly awful. You'd have got more passion and fight from a Championship select 11!

GeordieFalcon wrote:

liverbnz wrote:

John wrote:So did Bert Van Marwijk after his shambles at Holland. Roy needs to follow suit.

Is right. No more of this passing the buck onto the players (majority of which play in the CL) or 'transitional tournament'. Greece, Columbia, Chile and Costa Rica are through. How many of them have the quality of players England do?

He needs to take responsibility (and not just by saying it and not really meaning it). He won't though. He never has. And he (along with the media) will continue to pull the wool over people's eyes.

Whilst i personally would favour Roy going...he's not just passing the buck. The players have been truly awful. You'd have got more passion and fight from a Championship select 11!

That's his problem. He picks the team and sets them up. The buck stops with him. Most of those players were in brilliant form (bar Rooney and Wellbeck) coming to the end of season. They then don the England shirt and suddenly lack fight? I find it bizarre that every time a British manager is in charge of a team who underperforms it's suddenly the players' fault (see David Moyes) but when it's a foreign coach they're too cold to motivate the players (AVB, Capello, etc).

Anyway, his job is safe by all accounts and he lacks the humility to resign so it's almost a waste of time debating it. No luck if you are an England fant though.

14 players used yesterday by England scored a combined 88 goals and created a further 56 in the PL last season. Roy after drawing 0-0 with Costa Rica "couldn't have asked for more". Shots on target for England = 1. Roy "proud to have restricted the group winners chances". Shots on target Costa Rica = 2.

Con artist.

Who to replace him then?

Martinez would be the only realistic name who might fit the bill and even then he might not want it.

Frank De Boer - Wants a new challenge. Already built up a good CV at Ajax & proven to be very capable of working & developing youth. Would fit us very well in getting the best out of this new attacking generation. Also, vast international experience as a player.

Michael Laudrup - Did a good job at Swansea, likes attacking, high tempo football. A winner on the international stage & knows the EPL players very well.

Martinez is a possibility but I don't see him being available or interested. Klinsmann too, who's doing a good job with the USA. I'm sure there are many other options out there, it's taking the time to look. Just saying, 'no, we don't want Harry', therefore we will just stick with Roy, is extremely poor. We will go nowhere under Hodgson, he's even admitted it - saying it will take six years for us to challenge. Embarrassing.

The FA and the press are still in the 'British manager's are the way to go' cycle. No hope for any of those, especially a German.

It's irrelvant anyway. He's assured of his job anyway. Failed to qualify from the group stages for the first time since 1958 = job security.

We've already gone forward with Hodgson, though.

Was this World Cup better for England than four years ago? Of course it was.

Given we failed to even qualify for the friggin' World Cup in 1994 surely Hodgson has to be viewed as a roaring success?

No, just Duty thinking so then.

Duty281 wrote:We've already gone forward with Hodgson, though.

           

John wrote:

Duty281 wrote:We've already gone forward with Hodgson, though.

           

John, do engage your brain.

Remember how woeful England were in 2010?

Yeah, we've gone forward with Roy...sadly it's through a rip in space and time and it's transported us back to the dark ages.

We are better than four years ago, better than two years ago, ergo we have made a step forward.

I'm sorry the results don't detail that, as the performances certainly do.

Stop bumming over the Italy performance, it was one game. Against Uruguay, it was a terrible, nervous performance. Against Ecuador, it was an average performance. Against Honduras, it was an extremely poor performance, whereby we couldn't even break down 10 men. Against Sweden, we got destroyed, against Germany B, we got taught a lesson, against Chile, we got taught another lesson by the South American style. Ukraine, home & away.......terrible performances. Against Poland & Montenegro away......yep, you guessed it......embarrassing performances.

The performances are woeful, so are the results. Fact.....get your delusional head around it!

Did we progress through the group stages in 2010/2012? Did we progress through the group stages in 2014?

Love you dearly Duty, your optimism is highly infectious and it's been emotional but there's nothing positive to take from this World Cup other than the fact that the England shirt I'm going to buy for my son to commemorate the year of his birth will be a f*ck sight cheaper a f*ck sight quicker.

Still, keep the faith young brother, we need people like you to lift our spirits

Think John could do with being a bit nicer to you though.

The performances have been better we just haven't gotten the results we wanted (and let's be honest the more we win the higher our expectations get, if we'd got through half of us would have been saying it would be a failure if we didn't win

Hodgson needs to stay and be given until after the Euro's give him a bit of time to let him develop a new side (without Gerrard, Lampard) and then lambast him if we don't do anything.

DAVE667 wrote:Did we progress through the group stages in 2010/2012? Did we progress through the group stages in 2014?

Love you dearly Duty, your optimism is highly infectious and it's been emotional but there's nothing positive to take from this World Cup other than the fact that the England shirt I'm going to buy for my son to commemorate the year of his birth will be a f*ck sight cheaper a f*ck sight quicker.

Still, keep the faith young brother, we need people like you to lift our spirits

Think John could do with being a bit nicer to you though.

Harder opposition, though, this time around...although John is bound to disagree!

If Roy played negatively this year, with two banks of four, and England scraped through with five points, would people be happy? Nope,

John wrote:Stop bumming over the Italy performance, it was one game. Against Uruguay, it was a terrible, nervous performance. Against Ecuador, it was an average performance. Against Honduras, it was an extremely poor performance, whereby we couldn't even break down 10 men. Against Sweden, we got destroyed, against Germany B, we got taught a lesson, against Chile, we got taught another lesson by the South American style. Ukraine, home & away.......terrible performances. Against Poland & Montenegro away......yep, you guessed it......embarrassing performances.

The performances are woeful, so are the results. Fact.....get your delusional head around it!

You are the most miserable person I've ever known...fact!

I'd rather play better and go out in the group stage than grind to a quarter final.

Im afraid i have to agree, the performances have been poor aswell.

Personally i dont want Roy to stay on. I just dont think he's gonig to progress us much in the next two years.

As for who to replace him? Well sadly thats the bigger question.

Duty281 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Did we progress through the group stages in 2010/2012? Did we progress through the group stages in 2014?

Love you dearly Duty, your optimism is highly infectious and it's been emotional but there's nothing positive to take from this World Cup other than the fact that the England shirt I'm going to buy for my son to commemorate the year of his birth will be a f*ck sight cheaper a f*ck sight quicker.

Still, keep the faith young brother, we need people like you to lift our spirits

Think John could do with being a bit nicer to you though.

Harder opposition, though, this time around...although John is bound to disagree!

If Roy played negatively this year, with two banks of four, and England scraped through with five points, would people be happy? Nope,

Think they'd be a damn sight happier than they were with the turgid showings this year

Duty281 wrote:

John wrote:Stop bumming over the Italy performance, it was one game. Against Uruguay, it was a terrible, nervous performance. Against Ecuador, it was an average performance. Against Honduras, it was an extremely poor performance, whereby we couldn't even break down 10 men. Against Sweden, we got destroyed, against Germany B, we got taught a lesson, against Chile, we got taught another lesson by the South American style. Ukraine, home & away.......terrible performances. Against Poland & Montenegro away......yep, you guessed it......embarrassing performances.

The performances are woeful, so are the results. Fact.....get your delusional head around it!

You are the most miserable person I've ever known...fact!

Rather be miserable, than delusional   

I'm just telling the truth about our performances & results. I'm not getting carried away by one performance against an average Italian side. Look, there are positives, in the fact we have youth coming through, it's just that Hodgson is not the man to take this new, young generation forward. I can't get excited about our chances or that these players will develop into anything significant on the International stage, until Hodgson is removed & we bring in a manager who plays players in correct positions & is tactically astute & not inept.

John wrote:Stop bumming over the Italy performance, it was one game. Against Uruguay, it was a terrible, nervous performance. Against Ecuador, it was an average performance. Against Honduras, it was an extremely poor performance, whereby we couldn't even break down 10 men. Against Sweden, we got destroyed, against Germany B, we got taught a lesson, against Chile, we got taught another lesson by the South American style. Ukraine, home & away.......terrible performances. Against Poland & Montenegro away......yep, you guessed it......embarrassing performances.

The performances are woeful, so are the results. Fact.....get your delusional head around it!

The truth!

Let's not also forget that Italy were on a very poor run of form prior to the England game and continued that form in their following two games. England have sucked real bad. There are no positives to take since the young lions that the nation hoped would take the tournament by storm ended up making little impact while the established players looked ordinary.
Hogdson may be a nice guy who is passionate about managing England but he's out of his depth. In their last nine games, England have only won twice - against two teams that didn't qualify for the WC. They failed to beat the seven that did.

Sure, there's a decent amount of dross in the squad but still, Woy deserves the stick for being so dumb. 

Are people seriously saying that we played worse this year than in 2010, or 2012?

The big question is if Roy were to go, who (realistically) could/would take over now   

Duty281 wrote:Are people seriously saying that we played worse this year than in 2010, or 2012?

We sucked in all three. Saying which was worse is akin to saying which was the worst Police Academy movie.

J.Benson II wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Are people seriously saying that we played worse this year than in 2010, or 2012?

We sucked in all three. Saying which was worse is akin to saying which was the worst Police Academy movie.

Mission in Moscow.

Which ironically will be England's next World Cup campaign.

Duty281 wrote:Are people seriously saying that we played worse this year than in 2010, or 2012?

Yes we played just as bad.

For all this attacking football that you claim England played at this world cup we only scored 2 goals in the whole tournament.

There can be no positives from this world cup as we were just plain terrible. The only side we looked ok against was against a shockingly bad Italy group who lost all their other games, except beating us of course.

England were terrible so sto trying to claim it was anything other than that.

There has been some positives, We can finally get rid of Lampard and Gerrard, Rooney's broken his goal duck which might assist us come the Euro's and if not he knows he's not untouchable.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Are people seriously saying that we played worse this year than in 2010, or 2012?

Yes we played just as bad.

For all this attacking football that you claim England played at this world cup we only scored 2 goals in the whole tournament.

There can be no positives from this world cup as we were just plain terrible. The only side we looked ok against was against a shockingly bad Italy group who lost all their other games, except beating us of course.

England were terrible so sto trying to claim it was anything other than that.

Wrong, England weren't terrible...................................they were a certain and direct disaster.
2 goals and 1 point from 3 games is enough proof that England truly are incompetent, something we can't afford to be at such a high level.

Will this change....well that depends on the FA.

Duty knows England were sh1te. Before the tournament, he said that he'd be disappointed with anything other than a SF or something on those lines. Oh well.
We end up with England finishing bottom of their group, zero wins, two goals and performances that were instantly forgettable. Injuries can't be blamed as every team has them. A tough group can't be blamed as the group underdogs topped it. Missed chances can't be blamed because our opponents missed chances too.
The only "positive" is that England's games, at least against Italy and Uruguay were more entertaining then the games they had in 2010/2012 and England showed more intent to attack – despite this, they still only managed the same amount of goals as they did in 2010 and even less then in 2012.

The fact that England were more entertaining is a massive positive. I'd rather watch that than turgid 0-0's/1-0's etc.

England were n't sh1te either, we weren't as good as Costa Rica (a glorified friendly) got undone by some bad defending against Italy (first goal was a shocker,) and an absolutely shocking header by our captain in the Uruguay game. Not a great world cup for us sure but anyone expecting much else was/is delusional

Derbymanc wrote:The fact that England were more entertaining is a massive positive. I'd rather watch that than turgid 0-0's/1-0's etc.

England were n't sh1te either, we weren't as good as Costa Rica (a glorified friendly) got undone by some bad defending against Italy (first goal was a shocker,) and an absolutely shocking header by our captain in the Uruguay game. Not a great world cup for us sure but anyone expecting much else was/is delusional

In my view England never entertained me. Glimpses of good football against a very poor italian team but that is it.

Poor tactics, poor finishing and a terrible World cup is what this world cup will be remembered for england.

J.Benson II wrote:Duty knows England were sh1te. Before the tournament, he said that he'd be disappointed with anything other than a SF or something on those lines. Oh well.
We end up with England finishing bottom of their group, zero wins, two goals and performances that were instantly forgettable. Injuries can't be blamed as every team has them. A tough group can't be blamed as the group underdogs topped it. Missed chances can't be blamed because our opponents missed chances too.
The only "positive" is that England's games, at least against Italy and Uruguay were more entertaining then the games they had in 2010/2012 and England showed more intent to attack – despite this, they still only managed the same amount of goals as they did in 2010 and even less then in 2012.

I remember that as well haha. He also said England would top our group with ease because as he said the Italians and the uruguay team are overrated and Costa Rica will be an easy game. Now we have finished bottom he has changed his tune and tried to spin things by saying England deserve some slack for being in a tough group with two very good teams   

Luis Suárez adds to story of violence and deceit, by @DTguardian | http://t.co/RYM4bsOzil (Photo Getty) http://t.co/WLHwpAJQCP

J.Benson II wrote:Duty knows England were sh1te. Before the tournament, he said that he'd be disappointed with anything other than a SF or something on those lines. Oh well.
We end up with England finishing bottom of their group, zero wins, two goals and performances that were instantly forgettable. Injuries can't be blamed as every team has them. A tough group can't be blamed as the group underdogs topped it. Missed chances can't be blamed because our opponents missed chances too.
The only "positive" is that England's games, at least against Italy and Uruguay were more entertaining then the games they had in 2010/2012 and England showed more intent to attack – despite this, they still only managed the same amount of goals as they did in 2010 and even less then in 2012.

QF, I said, Benson, would be par, against two overrated opponents in Italy and Uruguay, and an underrated Costa Rica who could be dangerous.

In the end, England shot themselves in the foot, more than the opposition putting us out. I feared Roy would revert to type, and play negative. He didn't, and credit to him for that.

Where I thought England were disappointing were their set-pieces and defensive organisation; two areas which I thought we would be able to count on.

England did improve, however, with regards to chance creation and ball retention. Some younger, promising players have been brought through, which will be of great benefit further down the line.

As I've said, its a shame that results don't back up England's improvement - the game against Italy was the best in near-enough a decade for attacking play, while the so-so game against Uruguay was still better than anything England conjured up in 2010 and 2012.

Step forward and the right direction being taken; I hope a similar mentality persists in 2016, rather than reverting to negative football. Working on finding a more consistent team selection, and defensive organisation must be the key for the next two years, then additionally improving still further on ball retention and taking the chances when they come.

So what team should start the 1st Euro qualifier?

Whichever one big Roy picks, although I'd leave Sterling out as it's really frustrating to see him continously run into a pack of players

Derbymanc wrote:Whichever one big Roy picks, although I'd leave Sterling out as it's really frustrating to see him continously run into a pack of players

They know he's good so surround him instantly...very few players have the skill to get out of jams like that but give Sterling time and it's a skill he can develop. Rather have him IN the team that out of it. Besides which, if the rest of the team gave him some f*****g support he wouldn't have to try and take on four players at a time.

That's why I'd leave him out for the moment Dave, use him as an impact if you have too but give him time to develop a bit more before throwing him in the deep end.

Like you say, he's got the skills there but they need focusing. (and the team needs to learn to read part of his game too.)

Costa Rica should be proud of themselves.

They have performed admirably and made excellent progress. They can now be considered amongst the best.

Goodness knows how many of their players will be in European clubs after this cup.

Duty281 wrote:

J.Benson II wrote:Duty knows England were sh1te. Before the tournament, he said that he'd be disappointed with anything other than a SF or something on those lines. Oh well.
We end up with England finishing bottom of their group, zero wins, two goals and performances that were instantly forgettable. Injuries can't be blamed as every team has them. A tough group can't be blamed as the group underdogs topped it. Missed chances can't be blamed because our opponents missed chances too.
The only "positive" is that England's games, at least against Italy and Uruguay were more entertaining then the games they had in 2010/2012 and England showed more intent to attack – despite this, they still only managed the same amount of goals as they did in 2010 and even less then in 2012.

QF, I said, Benson, would be par, against two overrated opponents in Italy and Uruguay, and an underrated Costa Rica who could be dangerous.

In the end, England shot themselves in the foot, more than the opposition putting us out. I feared Roy would revert to type, and play negative. He didn't, and credit to him for that.

Where I thought England were disappointing were their set-pieces and defensive organisation; two areas which I thought we would be able to count on.

England did improve, however, with regards to chance creation and ball retention. Some younger, promising players have been brought through, which will be of great benefit further down the line.

As I've said, its a shame that results don't back up England's improvement - the game against Italy was the best in near-enough a decade for attacking play, while the so-so game against Uruguay was still better than anything England conjured up in 2010 and 2012.

Step forward and the right direction being taken; I hope a similar mentality persists in 2016, rather than reverting to negative football. Working on finding a more consistent team selection, and defensive organisation must be the key for the next two years, then additionally improving still further on ball retention and taking the chances when they come.

If a team get beat by two "overrated" sides, then that team clearly isn't very good.
This great display was against an Italian side that was an awful run of form and went on to lose their following two games. I think England were one of the very few teams Italy beat in their last 12 games or something.
You could also argue that England' s attacking performance against Sweden in Euro 2012, was better than anything they managed this WC.

Overrated doesn't necessarily mean that those two teams are, in my opinion, poor. I heard people on this forum and in the media touting Italy and Uruguay as potential winners of the World Cup, hence me terming them as "overrated". Something which has been proven to be correct over the duration of this World Cup.

England will be desperately disappointed that they didn't get anything out of either game, when one takes into consideration their number of chances they had against Italy, and the lack of opportunities that Uruguay had. The performance against Italy, certainly, didn't correctly correlate with the subsequent result.

And England's attacking performance against Sweden wasn't all that great; one long ball, and one Theo Walcott against a poor Swedish defence.