Group D - Uruguay, Costa Rica, England & Italy

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Discuss all things Group D here.

Suarez seems to have calmed down a bit this season so hopefully he has learnt from his many mistakes. I'm not his biggest fan especially being an Everton fan but I think it would be sad for him not to be at the World Cup. I want to the World Cup to be full of the best players in the world and he is one of them.

To be honest Duty; two sides to every coin....who a player is off the pitch is a truer testament to the person they are than their actions on it. In that sense Terry is pretty much scum where as Suarez can be accused of both poor discipline and bad temperament...something which many greats have had...Zidane, Maradonna, Cantona but to name a few.

Owen, there was a cracking article on the Guardian the other day about England's preparations ie temperature. Thought you'd be interested. One point they mentioned is that their sports scientists will be recreating conditions so that they can find the best times and also the amounts of liquid etc during games.

Yeh caught a bit of Dolph; they have attached chest pieces to take the temperature and monitor sweat readings etc whilst the players train.

I am a big fan of the technology that can be used in sports now; though with reading the information that has been divulged im not sure how much this particular exercise will help.

There is a big difference between playing in 15c heat where humidity is nothing extreme to 30c in Manaus. Portugal isn't known for being particuarly hot this time of year (July, August it peaks) in fact its pretty cool this time of year so I'm perplexed as to why they chose it as their base for one of two World Cup preparations weeks.

Its all about stages. I believe they're also being forced to wear three layers of clothing. So this'll be all about rehydration at the moment

We have the best sports scientists in the world outside of America and China so there will be a very good reason why we're currently training in Portugal.

You can't just send em in cold turkey to 35 degree with 95% humidity, gotta build it up ain't ya

And England have got a bloody good head doctor, Steve Peters, to help them as well.

As the Times headline says today: "Inspiration and perspiration at heart of plan to rule the world."

It will be sad if Suarez is not fit in time for the World Cup as the World Cup should be the showcase of the best players in the world, and coming off of such a fantastic year it would be a shame if Suarez wasn't a part of that group. The tournament is better when all the nation's best players are fit.

If it was a significant injury, he would of been ruled out. Keyhole surgery is the less invasive surgery, quicker recovery etc. He will make the WC, might miss the Costa Rica game but I'm sure he will take part in the other two group games. He's a determined character & a fighter, he will never give up or give in, as Liverpool fans have witnessed.

Honestly couldn't give a t0ss if he plays or not

Am I a fan of Suarez the man? no.
Do I want to see him on the biggest stage? Of course, as I do Ibra, Bale and all the stars who won't be in Brazil.

Olly wrote:Honestly couldn't give a t0ss if he plays or not

Completely agree, I watch the World cup primarily to see England everything else comes a distant second, if Suarez being injured helps us then I hope he does miss out, i'd rather see us progress than watch him play.

I want England to do well, but I love the World Cup for its whole nature. A festival of international football.

Jesus Christ, Newcastle Defender Paul Dummett has received death threats from angry Uruguay fans who blame him for the injury to Suarez

I have to say impressed with the squad England has going into this world cup, if they could get out of this difficult group they can do some damage. But never underestimate Uruguay in south America. They are a dominant force in that continent and Suarez and Cavani can win a game single handedly.

Uruguay have named Suarez in their final squad.

A very average final squad, as well, especially in midfield. Suarez, Cavani, Godin, maybe Cacares, are the names that jump at you.

It's clear who they'll be relying on, and they will need a masterclass from one of Suarez or Cavani to have any hope of getting past England or Italy.

They came 5th in qualifying, a qualifying group that Brazil were absent from, and there's a reason for that: they're not especially good.

Duty281 wrote:They came 5th in qualifying, a qualifying group that Brazil were absent from, and there's a reason for that: they're not especially good.

And we struggled to beat Montenegro on numerous occassions, couldn't beat Ukraine, drew with Poland away, lost to Germany B, trounced by Chile & looked decidedly average against Peru B until they capitulated. You could argue, we ain't very good either, works both ways. Come WC, they will be motivated, playing in conditions they like & have match-winners in Suarez & Cavani. I'd have a lot more confidence & belief in Suarez winning my nation a WC game, than Rooney right now.

I don't take friendlies into consideration, John, otherwise I could argue that England have beaten Spain, Belgium, Italy and Brazil in the past 30 months, and that offers evidence for why England can win the World Cup. Rest assured, I wouldn't use that argument.

And Uruguay lost five out of their sixteen games in qualifying: a 4-0 thrashing away to Colombia, a 3-0 pasting away to Argentina, a 4-1 battering away to Bolivia* (who finished below Peru in qualifying), a 2-0 loss away to Chile, and a 1-0 defeat away to Ecuador.

They're not very good, and certainly very beatable. Conditions in their favour? Yes. Better players? England, quite comfortably.

*And, before you ask, yes Suarez did play the full game in that defeat, while Forlan and Cavani both played sixty-five minutes each as well.

So the all conquering, amazing Italian played Ireland tonight and annihilated them...

0-0

Riccardo Montolivo broke his leg too in that match. Wish him the best of recoveries but I guess a positive for England.

Feel really sorry for Montolivo; hope he recovers fully.

Probably a blessing in disguise for Italy, playing Veratti would be a much better option than Montolivo who I've always thought was vastly overrated.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

John wrote:They've got an experienced team & players that know how to see out games. That could be crucial. You look at Suarez & Cavani as the standout players but Muslera, Godin, Pereira, Ramirez & Cristian Rodriguez are all experienced players who've played in Europe for years at a high level & will be comfortable in those hot conditions.

@Duty - Italy don't play at a high tempo? What do we play at? Slow-motion? They dominated us in the last encounter & controlled the game & possession. Your putting a lot of faith in our inexperienced youngsters to turn that upside down. Also, I wouldn't say we are as defensively sound without Terry & Cole, as you make out. Baines has never been truly tested against top international teams, when he was, he got found out massively by Alexis Sanchez.

Duty is the reason that everyone (including English fans) want England to lose. Proclaiming England as better than they are only makes peple want England to lose to prove you wrong.

In my view England will get 5 points, a win and 2 draws ( but all 3 performances will lack any kind of skill and will be very painful performances).

It's a peculiarity of the English football fans' psyche that we love to hype ourselves up to outrageous levels of expectation whilst all the time knowing (but completely ignoring) the shortcomings in our team.  Consequently, when the fall comes, it is all the more painful and we blame the whole world and his dog, but never our inadequate, poorly motivated, hapless players.

England's players..?   Well, we tell ourselves that the Premiership is the best league in the world... yada, yada, yada.... and make the naïve assumption that because we pay outlandish sums of money to skilful foreigners to come here and grace our league, that somehow enough of their magic sparkle will rub off on our home grown players, thus enabling them to perform on the global stage to the standard required to win the world cup.  

From where I sit, life aint like that.  A more probable scenario is that, as at every world cup England have qualified for since 1990, our shortcomings will once again be exposed for all to see..... and of course, Roy Hodgson will take the blame.  It will be all his fault.  The players who once again fail to deliver on the pitch...... who let us all down again........ will simply come home and demand another fifty thousand quid a week when they renegotiate their contracts while Roy Hodgson, a good coach and a decent man, has his face photoshopped onto a root vegetable by our lower-than-the-gutter press.




OK.... having said all that......

I hope I am completely wrong in all that I have said above.   I would love to have these words rubbed in my face as England take the world cup by storm and perform like finely honed athletes, driven by a fervent desire to do our country proud and displaying skills and abilities that leave us all gasping in awe.   Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to say:  "I was wrong".  

Duty, old chap.... feel free to hoist me with the petard of your choice if England reach the Semi Final or beyond. I would gladly accept such a torment

Ten days to go before we start to find out.

Can't imagine anyone saw that coming, fantastic performance by Costa Rica. They've blown this group wide open.

Thought Uruguay looked lacklustre upfront without Suarez, no creativity.

I told you Costa Rica would throw a few spanners!!

Of course I meant drawing a few games not spanking Uruguay lol

We could with the Italians winning all of there group games now really

Still I'm more confident of qualification now than before, think we can beat Uruguay then it'll all be on the Costa Rica game

Geeky question for you experts.

If two or more teams are level on points after the three group games, what determines their position in the group? Is it goal difference or how the teams did against each other?

Could be relevant to England.

guildfordbat wrote:Geeky question for you experts.

If two or more teams are level on points after the three group games, what determines their position in the group? Is it goal difference or how the teams did against each other?

Could be relevant to England.

Changed to goal difference for this tournament Guildford!

Tis why Spain are in a spot of bother

Thanks, Olly. Thought you would know.

Not impossible that England, Uruguay and Costa Rica will all end up with 3 points. As you said earlier, probably best for us if Italy can win their remaining two group games convincingly.

Spain gots to go out and win their games now

Best scenario for England:

Costa Rica and Italy draw.
England beat Uruguay and Costa Rica.
Italy and Uruguay draw, OR Uruguay beat Italy.

England top the group.

And something that's potentially difficult, meaning England's aren't guaranteed to be through even if they win their last two:

Costa Rica beat Italy.
England beat Uruguay and Costa Rica.
Italy beat Uruguay.

That means the top three teams tied on six points going down to GD.

Of course, England can get through with only three points:

Italy beat Costa Rica.
England lose to Uruguay and beat Costa Rica.
Italy beat Uruguay.

That creates the lower three teams tied on three points going to GD.

An England draw on Thursday isn't the end, just so long as Italy beat Costa Rica and avoid defeat to Uruguay, whilst England beat Costa Rica at the end. And, as you can see above, even an England loss isn't the end.

Let's just hope England win the last two to save all the potential bother.

I'm rather confident of England making it through.

England must beat Uruguay as Costa Rica will be a very tough game with no guarantees.

Duty281 wrote:Best scenario for England:

Costa Rica and Italy draw.
England beat Uruguay and Costa Rica.
Italy and Uruguay draw, OR Uruguay beat Italy.

England top the group.

And something that's potentially difficult, meaning England's aren't guaranteed to be through even if they win their last two:

Costa Rica beat Italy.
England beat Uruguay and Costa Rica.
Italy beat Uruguay.

That means the top three teams tied on six points going down to GD.

Of course, England can get through with only three points:

Italy beat Costa Rica.
England lose to Uruguay and beat Costa Rica.
Italy beat Uruguay.

That creates the lower three teams tied on three points going to GD.

An England draw on Thursday isn't the end, just so long as Italy beat Costa Rica and avoid defeat to Uruguay, whilst England beat Costa Rica at the end. And, as you can see above, even an England loss isn't the end.

Let's just hope England win the last two to save all the potential bother.

I'm rather confident of England making it through.

So, itv, you think you need to be a world class player to score? No you don't, you just need to be match fit, accurate & hit the target with your scoring....just like Uruguay were although a particular person wasn't even match fit and still manages to score twice so that makes it: you only need to be accurate and hit the target. England are very close to being out of the tournament.

The defence was slow which is why they scored.

Our boys didn't, until closer to the end, pose a threat from the start, no thorough intention, not enough determination....result is you lose.
Rooney could've scored if he was more accurate but it was closer to the keeper.

Our boys are capable BUT when will they apply their capabilities from the start??

Tonight, we watched a masterclass in finishing. Unfortunately, it was given to us by Luis Suarez.

Mathematically, England can still qualify from this group and if they do then our signature tune really will be The Great Escape. I won't be putting any money on it happening. Hands up those who will.

Suarez took his chances brilliantly, particularly for the winning goal. Andy Townsend pointed out in commentary that Suarez was onto Gerrard's error like a flash, whereas Cahill was flat footed just long enough to ensure that he couldn't possibly retrieve the situation. There was only going to be one outcome.

As slimy a human being as Luis Suarez is, there is no denying he is a superb goalscorer and tonight he showed he is capable of delivering the goods on the big occasion. That's what the best players do, and Townsend delivered a damning indictment on the England team at the final whistle when he pointed out that the difference between the two teams was that Uruguay had the one player of genuine world class.

Ouch.

They dont deserve to qualify.

TIme for a mass clearout...management, Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Jagielka, Johnson, etc etc

Theres a new batch of kids coming through (Sterling, Sturridge, Barkley, Shaw etc)...bring in a new manager to bring them through for the Euros...someone who plays with style and attack like Rodgers not predictable, ponderous tripe.

Costa Rica are good and are 1 nil in the lead over Italy, England might just be screwed.

GeordieFalcon wrote:They dont deserve to qualify.

TIme for a mass clearout...management, Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Jagielka, Johnson, etc etc

Theres a new batch of kids coming through (Sterling, Sturridge, Barkley, Shaw etc)...bring in a new manager to bring them through for the Euros...someone who plays with style and attack like Rodgers not predictable, ponderous tripe.

It's difficult to see how a mass culling from top to bottom would benefit England in time for the next world cup.  A mass clear out of the kind you suggest would put in place a team and management of very little experience, which would be highly unlikely to qualify for the Euros in two years time.  

If England fail to qualify for the Euros, it would be just as likely to affect England's world ranking to a degree that, even if we were to qualify for the next world cup, we would be at risk of being well down the list of seedings and in danger of being drawn in another "Group of Death".

Imagine if England qualified for the world cup and were drawn from pot three (or even four) in a group with Argentina and Holland, or Brazil and France, or Germany and Portugal.   I'll leave it to your imagination as to what would be likely to transpire.

In the past, England have mostly been one of the top two seeded teams in their group and this has helped us avoid just that sort of scenario so there was a better than even chance we would get into the later stages, even if it was only as the second placed team as happened in 1998 (2nd behind Rumania) and 2010 (second behind USA).  

Two top rated teams finding England drawn in their group.  Oh, they'd love that.  Just love it.

Nope..... for better or worse, I think we at least have to keep Roy Hodgson as manager, who, rather than taking an axe to this team, will instead drip-feed the younger players in over the next four year cycle and hopefully, in the process, build England little by little into a team that can genuinely compete.  

I agree that the old dead wood needs to be pruned.  Gerrard will be over the hill by the time of the next world cup and Rooney just doesn't cut it at the highest level.  He's a flat-track bully who has built up a reputation in the Premiership, but whose shortcomings are glaringly exposed against the big boys.  We have to find a better defensive line-up (although I have no idea where it is going to come from right now) and the whole team needs to find a bit of "Dicker" from somewhere.   Oh, for a Terry Butcher to get the dressing room pumped up..!!

The next four years are going to be tough.



PS....

As I type, Costa Rica are still 1 - 0 up against Italy with 15 minutes to play.  It's looking grim for England.

Just shows how poor we are this Costa Rica performance. They've closed Pirlo down, we didn't. This group is full of average supposedly big nations.

Teetering on the edge of elimination following Spain. Unbelievable.

Before the game I was this close to giving up all hope and belief, I wanted Italy to win, as did we all, but now that they've lost and England are out I no longer want to put my hopes up on high I no longer want to experience the heart ache of defeat I therefore take it all with a pinch of salt. England are very reliable when it comes to losing big games, we are not a big team, we seem to love club more than country(something I really don't like) and it's all about money now. Even with St George's Park we still won't, for a long time, develop and progress. As for the Euro's, the same applies to that. Will we learn?

Why do English fans live in Mythology?

Costa Rica stormed into the next round 2/2 and England dudded outta world cup with 2/2.

England made Italy look stronger, Uruguay will put an end to Italy's hopes and it will be Costa Rica and Uruguay.

England need a new Gazza, a half decent back four and a wage cut.

We'll keep this thread going, yeah?  

Was about to say the other night (here) when Rooney equalised against Uruguay. Did you see the pandemonium amongst the England fans to the left behind the goal? Reminded me of classic times past. I felt all warm and fuzzy witnessing that. I so wanted England to win that match too.

As an Aussie - I really wanted to see England get into the last 16. Call me mad or whatever but I'm 3/4 as disappointed as you guys are.

I actually feel a little sick in the guts when I hear some comments about England never being "world class" again. Rubbish! One should never let such thoughts enter the mind.. let alone repeat words like that on a public forum. Seriously. (sort of like a toned down Duty)   

I know there may be reasons why there has been a decline in English football (as mentioned above) but it's up to an individual (or 2 or 3 or 4...) to stand up in the next contest and aim for better results.

Those near misses can be converted into some joy for you blokes in the future you know... and the same applies for us even more so.   

Spot on

England were ok with the ball, but were absolute pants without. They just stood back as they always do. Compare this to how the Dutch hounded the Spanish. They nulled their ticky tacky and took them to the cleaners, with the help of a certain Robben and Van Persie of course.

As an England fan I have to say we are the biggest underachievers in World football.

When it comes to major tournaments top players show their class, sadly Rooney and particularily Gerrard prove time and time again they can't cut it.

We may have got done by world class finishing,but it doesn't help when your 2 centre backs lose their position against the 2 danger men they're supposed to be marking Ballotteli,Suarez,do players like Tony Adams and Sol Campbell let those 2 headers in I doubt it.

Our defence is shocking,Jagielka is not International class, our midfield seemed incapable of winning any50/50 challenges and wasted the ball time and time again when in possession.

At International level I don't rate Gerrard but who takes his place,in a Liverpool shirt he's class,England shirt he's a conference player,but who takes his place I don't know, do we have anyone.

Cardiff Dave wrote:England were ok with the ball, but were absolute pants without. They just stood back as they always do. Compare this to how the Dutch hounded the Spanish. They nulled their ticky tacky and took them to the cleaners, with the help of a certain Robben and Van Persie of course.

Spot on. I'd add the Chileans to that as well, as they used the same high pressure tactics against Spain. The teams who've defended from the front are the teams prospering at the moment.

Nico the gman wrote:As an England fan I have to say we are the biggest underachievers in World football.

Not so sure about that. England haven't had a decent balanced team since Italia 90 in my view.

Nakatomi Plaza wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:England were ok with the ball, but were absolute pants without. They just stood back as they always do. Compare this to how the Dutch hounded the Spanish. They nulled their ticky tacky and took them to the cleaners, with the help of a certain Robben and Van Persie of course.

Spot on. I'd add the Chileans to that as well, as they used the same high pressure tactics against Spain. The teams who've defended from the front are the teams prospering at the moment.

Yeah them as well.
I ranted about this while watching the Eng v Ita game. Couldn't understand at all why they were sitting back and not getting stuck in when the Italians had the ball. Pirlo would've been in bed by half time if they had. The guy can barely walk let alone run.