Is Zebre a result we can expect if Regional teams are reorganised

It seem to me as though one year is all the FIR lost by replacing aroini with their own run region.

Most people I know who watch regional rugby would go as they want to see top rugby on offer.  Yes you lose a few fans and the banwagon may go missing for a few years but the end result is a stronger set-up heading in a better direction.

There are plenty of casual fans out there they just need a reason to come (usually success).

So should the Unions with regional teams look at what is not working in their systems and fix it before the next jump in rugby money makes making changes even harder then it is now.

As an example if it is hard now at say €4m in wages how hard will it be when wages are €6m+ and other are even more ahead in standards and attendances

So should the Unions with regional teams WRU - fixed that for you free of charge  

Terrible victims of circumstance has been Welsh rugby. And the WRU has been an even better prime example of maladministraion and incompetence than the RFU.

I'm convinced that the Welsh clubs would have been in a better place now than the regions are had it not been for the tragi-comedy of the caving in to franchises. But now there's no way of telling.   

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Terrible victims of circumstance has been Welsh rugby. And the WRU has been an even better prime example of maladministraion and  incompetence than the RFU.

I'm convinced that the Welsh clubs would have been in a better place now than the regions are had it not been for the tragi-comedy of the caving in to franchises. But now there's no way of telling.   

  Agreed

PenfroPete wrote:So should the Unions with regional teams WRU - fixed that for you free of charge  

no I mean all unions. SANZAR face the problem of their top players leaving. If they wait a few years the money they would have to stump up to reverse it could well criple their struggling regional set up.

I think that Zebre so Agrintina that they are better to follow the regional union team rather than farm it out to a private body ie arronini.

So no it is not the WRU it is all of them as if they dont have systems in pla e it could hurt the union alot more than now

Sorry Brendan, had my NH head on   

PenfroPete wrote:Sorry Brendan, had my NH head on   

its grand. Wonder if the IRFU is just sidestepping the issue of players leaving or if it was because of systems in place to help them stay

Combination of the Provinces being "set up" before Pro rugby, plus in the Republic the tax-concessions that are able to be granted - something that we in Wales aren't able to do. Maybe Scotland could look at that if they gain independence ?

Ah sh!te meeting

When IRFU HQ was on fire there was only one escape hatch available and they jumped out blindly into the Golden Generation ® safety blanket.

Don't the SANZAR already have this system? How much is Zebre costing the union compared with Aironi? Don't they put something like 7M to Zebre and 3M to Treviso? (I'd assume Aironi got the same as Treviso) Also has Zebre/Aironi got better or the Regions and Treviso got worse?

Taking one team and one year and trying to come up with international recommendations is nonsense.

HammerofThunor wrote:Don't the SANZAR already have this system? How much is Zebre costing the union compared with Aironi? Don't they put something like 7M to Zebre and 3M to Treviso? (I'd assume Aironi got the same as Treviso) Also has Zebre/Aironi got better or the Regions and Treviso got worse?

Taking one team and one year and trying to come up with international recommendations is nonsense.

that is true regarding looking at it in isolation. But people said it would take ages to build them up. They have a long way to go but seem to be as strong as Aroini were.

on tax breaks with what the T14 are paying you would figure it goes beyond the small tax savings.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Terrible victims of circumstance has been Welsh rugby. And the WRU has been an even better prime example of maladministraion and  incompetence than the RFU.

I'm convinced that the Welsh clubs would have been in a better place now than the regions are had it not been for the tragi-comedy of the caving in to franchises. But now there's no way of telling.   

I really don't see it as a massive problem whats happening in Welsh rugby at the moment. Yes we are losing established international players to French and occasionally English teams but this leaves gaps for academy players to slip into. In truth the catchment area for the regions is massive and quality young players are coming through, additionally a lot of older Welsh players are coming home. The Dragons having Lee Bryne, Ian Gough and Aled Brew next season will help them.

People talk about Welsh attendances being poor, and they are, but their no worse than they have been historically amongst the Welsh top clubs even before regionalism. There are a lot of positive things Welsh rugby could be talking about as well, but everyone is so busy looking for reasons to drag Welsh rugby down at the moment.

I notice no one mentions the emergence of North Wales Regional players in the U20 squads. I notice no one mentions the new training facility / mini stadium that is nearly finished completion in Ystrad Mynach for the Dragons to move into next season, which will surely be better than the barn they currently use on the side of Rodney Parade.

Europe is now sorted out, and the Rabo Direct games actually mean something now due to the qualification process. Although i fully expect the English to start moaning again soon because the depleted Welsh teams will not (in the longer term) compete domestically with Ulster, Munster and Leinster who will still be guranteed Heinaken Cup places.

Welsh rugby always has a problem in that it can't compete in financial terms, we couldn't compete with rugby league in the 80's and 90's and we can't compete in the professional era, but as long as Wales are not disgracing themselves in international rugby then people will be happy. Thankfully Italy and Scotland are so bad at the moment we nearly always beat them at a canter, while in the medium to long term we should be able to win one or two games from Ireland, England and France.

Brendan wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Don't the SANZAR already have this system? How much is Zebre costing the union compared with Aironi? Don't they put something like 7M to Zebre and 3M to Treviso? (I'd assume Aironi got the same as Treviso) Also has Zebre/Aironi got better or the Regions and Treviso got worse?

Taking one team and one year and trying to come up with international recommendations is nonsense.

that is true regarding looking at it in isolation.  But people said it would take ages to build them up.  They have a long way to go but seem to be as strong as Aroini were.

on tax breaks with what the T14 are paying you would figure it goes beyond the small tax savings.

But Aironi were a made up team as well. Why wouldn't another made up team do just as well in the same time scale?

Shifty wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Terrible victims of circumstance has been Welsh rugby. And the WRU has been an even better prime example of maladministraion and  incompetence than the RFU.

I'm convinced that the Welsh clubs would have been in a better place now than the regions are had it not been for the tragi-comedy of the caving in to franchises. But now there's no way of telling.   

I really don't see it as a massive problem whats happening in Welsh rugby at the moment.  Yes we are losing established international players to French and occasionally English teams but this leaves gaps for academy players to slip into.  In truth the catchment area for the regions is massive and quality young players are coming through, additionally a lot of older Welsh players are coming home.  The Dragons having Lee Bryne, Ian Gough and Aled Brew next season will help them.  

People talk about Welsh attendances being poor, and they are, but their no worse than they have been historically amongst the Welsh top clubs even before regionalism.  There are a lot of positive things Welsh rugby could be talking about as well, but everyone is so busy looking for reasons to drag Welsh rugby down at the moment.

I notice no one mentions the emergence of North Wales Regional players in the U20 squads.  I notice no one mentions the new training facility / mini stadium that is nearly finished completion in Ystrad Mynach for the Dragons to move into next season, which will surely be better than the barn they currently use on the side of Rodney Parade.  

Europe is now sorted out, and the Rabo Direct games actually mean something now due to the qualification process.  Although i fully expect the English to start moaning again soon because the depleted Welsh teams will not (in the longer term) compete domestically with Ulster, Munster and Leinster who will still be guranteed Heinaken Cup places.  

Welsh rugby always has a problem in that it can't compete in financial terms, we couldn't compete with rugby league in the 80's and 90's and we can't compete in the professional era, but as long as Wales are not disgracing themselves in international rugby then people will be happy.  Thankfully Italy and Scotland are so bad at the moment we nearly always beat them at a canter, while in the medium to long term we should be able to win one or two games from Ireland, England and France.  

What is missing had not the WRU caved into expediency at the time are fixtures like Anglo/Welsh contests like Cardiff v Sarries, Llanelli v Saints, Swansea v Wasps, Neath v Tigers, Bridgend v London Irish etc. on an occasional basis.

The manufactured sides have no soul, history or spirit.

Wales (nor Scotland) didn't need to go down that route although Ireland did.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:
Wales (nor Scotland) didn't need to go down that route although Ireland did.

How would they compete otherwise?

I don't see how the traditional Scottish Districts are manufactured. I watched district rugby in Scotland before professional rugby.