Regional A teams

http://www.ponty.net/ponty-rugby-ltd-statement0?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook


It looks like the superclubs have now hijacked the B&I Cup for themselves now that the LV is over.

Richard Holland is about as slimy as you get. Look at the email he sent. What a tool.

As well the regions should run A teams. About time we offered some natural progression. Despite what your average Pontypridd supporter will try telling you, it's a massive gap between alleged tinpot clubs (like those north of the m4) and alleged super clubs.

Told you so. Get the popcorn on.

Risca Rev wrote:As well the regions should run A teams. About time we offered some natural progression. Despite what your average Pontypridd supporter will try telling you, it's a massive gap between alleged tinpot clubs (like those north of the m4) and alleged super clubs.

Of course there is a gap. One gets about £100k a year from the WRU and the other gets over £2m per year plus professional competition money.

But regions struggle to get crowds for most games, how many will watch A teams?

The regions already have cross border competition what is wrong with the clubs having something to aim for? This will only make the 'gap' wider surely.

Risca Rev wrote:As well the regions should run A teams. About time we offered some natural progression. Despite what your average Pontypridd supporter will try telling you, it's a massive gap between alleged tinpot clubs (like those north of the m4) and alleged super clubs.

Agreed although I can understand why Ponty fans will be a tad annoyed since their club will no longer feature in the BIC.

doctornickolas wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:As well the regions should run A teams. About time we offered some natural progression. Despite what your average Pontypridd supporter will try telling you, it's a massive gap between alleged tinpot clubs (like those north of the m4) and alleged super clubs.

Of course there is a gap. One gets about £100k a year from the WRU and the other gets over £2m per year plus professional competition money.

But regions struggle to get crowds for most games, how many will watch A teams?

The regions already have cross border competition what is wrong with the clubs having something to aim for? This will only make the 'gap' wider surely.

All to do with player development as far as I can tell. Nowt to do with crowds.

With the exception of Ponty not many of our Semi Pro teams have rarely been able to compete with the other fully professional teams in the Cup.

Also since the Cup started in the 09-10 season it is actually only Cross Keys that have made the final in 2011-12 losing out to Munster A ans as for crowds well they haven't been huge anyway.

Aren't Ponty Cardiff Blues 'A' anyway ? How many of their players do they use during the B&I cup ? Plus the £160,000 they are given...

The last few years (in the Scarlets region at least) the team that has made the B&I Cup has been able to 'loan' players from the other feeder teams, so they have in essence been the Scarlets A team.

Ponty RFC wrote: In Pontypridd RFC’s case, it seems that its fate for being the most consistent and successful team in ‘Elite Rugby’ in Wales over the last five years, is that it is destined to be denied the opportunity to compete for qualification in the pool stages of the British & Irish Cup in the 2015/16 season.

I HAVEN'T LAUGHED SO HARD IN MONTHS.

Christ, the Irish are less self entitled than these lot....

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The last few years (in the Scarlets region at least) the team that has made the B&I Cup has been able to 'loan' players from the other feeder teams, so they have in essence been the Scarlets A team.

SS, we (Os) basically do the same thing, when we had 4 teams in the Premiership, Aberavon, Bridgend, Neath and Swansea there was a semi final and the winners met in the final, the winners of which represented Ospreylia, that club could and did have players from the other 3 to play in the B&I cup, so not much different to what is now being proposed, the only difference being some of the closer players to the Ospreys set up playing, which will aid their development.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:As well the regions should run A teams. About time we offered some natural progression. Despite what your average Pontypridd supporter will try telling you, it's a massive gap between alleged tinpot clubs (like those north of the m4) and alleged super clubs.

Agreed although I can understand why Ponty fans will be a tad annoyed since their club will no longer feature in the BIC.

They have been the Blues' representatives in the British & Irish Cup for a while now (not that they'll admit it), now they'll just be replaced by the real thing.

Ponty fans are often full of praise for the IRFU and how things are done over there, but now the regions are following their lead and playing 'A' teams, they don't like it.

To be honest, if the Ponty players are good enough they will be in the B&I Blues A team, and if they Ponty fans are behind their boys then they will turn up (or travel) to support their local lads. Especially as it is likely that Ponty will not be playing on the same weekends.

If anything the A Team should actually provide the 'disenfranchised' with an opportunity to get back into the regional scene. If they are willing to give it a try, then they could well find that they start of following their 'local lads' playing in the A Team, and if/when they are good enough to step up into the Blues team, they may find it easier to watch them there too. Well, providing they can get past the fact that it will not be Ponty.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:To be honest, if the Ponty players are good enough they will be in the B&I Blues A team, and if they Ponty fans are behind their boys then they will turn up (or travel) to support their local lads.  Especially as it is likely that Ponty will not be playing on the same weekends.

If anything the A Team should actually provide the 'disenfranchised' with an opportunity to get back into the regional scene.  If they are willing to give it a try, then they could well find that they start of following their 'local lads' playing in the A Team, and if/when they are good enough to step up into the Blues team, they may find it easier to watch them there too.  Well, providing they can get past the fact that it will not be Ponty.

"I will never be a Blue"

etc etc etc ad nasuem.

So all of the regions are doing it. Yet we're the bad guys. This is the best thing for player development. I'd like to see an A League set up as well. Really enjoyed that O's game last year.

Wales needs regional A teams to develop players. Let's face it - Ponty aren't going to support anything that doesn't place Ponty at the centre of the rugby world.

Coleman wrote:So all of the regions are doing it. Yet we're the bad guys. This is the best thing for player development. I'd like to see an A League set up as well. Really enjoyed that O's game last year.

Yeah it seems that way. However, there is one key point that your missing out on. It is only the Blues who are doing it at the cost of Ponty.

The Irish do it, I don't see why we can't.

I understand their plight. Honestly i think the top three of the Prem should be entered in to the third tier the European comp when (if) that ever gets going. As for this, well i just thought we'd have an A League.

munkian wrote:The Irish do it, I don't see why we can't.

Because the Irish have regions

doctornickolas wrote:

munkian wrote:The Irish do it, I don't see why we can't.

Because the Irish have regions

So do Wales. Just because you don't like it dosn't mean it isnt true. Some people still deny climate change because they don't like how accepting that will impact on their life style. Are Welsh regions perfect? No. But there are a lot of people out there working hard on a daily basis trying to improve relationships, breakdown barriers, and make the game less tribal.

doctornickolas wrote:

munkian wrote:The Irish do it, I don't see why we can't.

Because the Irish have regions

The Welsh have regions, the Irish have provinces. They get up tight if you call them regions.

I've wanted A teams for a while. A lot of people in and out of Wales want Regional A teams, wasn't it Bedford or Rotherham's coach who said this too after watching his team put 60+ on these part-timers? Funny thing is you don't hear Cross Keys and Llanelli complaining. Dr Nick, you and Ponty really need to get over yourselves. Any attempt to develop professional players on a larger scale always seems to get spat on.

BTW - for those saying these A teams will essentially be a premiership team with token pro players then I think that might be incorrect (unless there is a major injury crisis). If you look at this, the teams aren't bad: https://www.606v2.com/t56046-blues-a-v-ospreys-a-monday-20th-oct-715-pm-arms-park

Despite the rather bizarre hatred for Pontypridd RFC on here, you can not deny it's pretty pointless a team winning the Welsh league over and over if they can't qualify for some higher level tournament as a reward for it

The British & Irish cup is not going to last if this happens anyway. No English championship club or Irish province is going to want to waste bus or plane money travelling to an empty Arms Park etc. and also get no away supporters in the return game

If we are going to have these regional 'A' sides then what's the point of having a Welsh premiership? This is just another example of how the WRU and the regions are quite happy for the club game to die

In fact, lets not bother having a club system. Let's just have regional setup of teams called Cardiff Blues 'A' all the way down to Cardiff Blues 'Z' who would basically be an Aberdare RFC team who would no doubt all turn up at Cardiff Arms Park to watch the local boys play. So for for example Cardiff Blues 'U' team (basically Penarth) could play Llanelli Scarlets 'U' team (basically Pembroke Dock High School Old Boys) 5 times are year

Bring it on I say

Steffan wrote:Despite the rather bizarre hatred for Pontypridd RFC on here, you can not deny it's pretty pointless a team winning the Welsh league over and over if they can't qualify for some higher level tournament as a reward for it

The British & Irish cup is not going to last if this happens anyway. No English championship club or Irish province is going to want to waste bus or plane money travelling to an empty Arms Park etc. and also get no away supporters in the return game

If we are going to have these regional 'A' sides then what's the point of having a Welsh premiership? This is just another example of how the WRU and the regions are quite happy for the club game to die

In fact, lets not bother having a club system. Let's just have regional setup of teams called Cardiff Blues 'A' all the way down to Cardiff Blues 'Z' who would basically be an Aberdare RFC team who would no doubt all turn up at Cardiff Arms Park to watch the local boys play. So for for example Cardiff Blues 'U' team (basically Penarth) could play Llanelli Scarlets 'U' team (basically Pembroke Dock High School Old Boys) 5 times are year

Bring it on I say

I wouldn't say its hatred, more amusement at their bizarre sense of self entitlement and illusions of grandeur.

munkian wrote:I wouldn't say its hatred, more amusement at their bizarre sense of self entitlement and illusions of grandeur

Yeah because when you win the Welsh Premiership year after year and then you get told you have been kicked out of the tournament above that through no fault of your own you really need to know your place don't you...

Anyway it's pretty obvious what is going to happen

The "regions" and the WRU will back down to Ponty and create a policy that the four 'A' teams go in the B&I Cup along with the winners of the Welsh Premiership

End of saga

Steffan wrote:Despite the rather bizarre hatred for Pontypridd RFC on here, you can not deny it's pretty pointless a team winning the Welsh league over and over if they can't qualify for some higher level tournament as a reward for it

There was no qualification to a higher-level tournament before the regions were created. I thought Ponty fans longed for those halcyon days?

Steffan wrote: Llanelli Scarlets 'U' team (basically Pembroke Dock High School Old Boys) 5 times are year

Why don't the Scarlets get a "z" team too?

I do love how Ponty press statements apparently speak for all the Premiership clubs too according to their fans. Twitter is a comedy goldmine atm

Yes Ponty claimed 11 clubs were against this A Team idea.

Erm, so Llanelli RFC are against the ideas of owners of Llanelli RFC?

Their most rabid fan is telling various journalists to 'shut up' when they have brought up this fact..

Steffan wrote:Despite the rather bizarre hatred for Pontypridd RFC on here, you can not deny it's pretty pointless a team winning the Welsh league over and over if they can't qualify for some higher level tournament as a reward for it

The British & Irish cup is not going to last if this happens anyway. No English championship club or Irish province is going to want to waste bus or plane money travelling to an empty Arms Park etc. and also get no away supporters in the return game

If we are going to have these regional 'A' sides then what's the point of having a Welsh premiership? This is just another example of how the WRU and the regions are quite happy for the club game to die

In fact, lets not bother having a club system. Let's just have regional setup of teams called Cardiff Blues 'A' all the way down to Cardiff Blues 'Z' who would basically be an Aberdare RFC team who would no doubt all turn up at Cardiff Arms Park to watch the local boys play. So for for example Cardiff Blues 'U' team (basically Penarth) could play Llanelli Scarlets 'U' team (basically Pembroke Dock High School Old Boys) 5 times are year

Bring it on I say

Oh dear, here come the daft comments that we've come to expect from your average Ponty fan. The Welsh league had been around for many years before the B&I cup - I can't see it making any difference, apart from teams not shipping 70+ points and us being able to bridge the gap between semi-pro and pro levels.

I don't know about that. I mean thus far, the Irish and English teams have been showing up pretty well.

The Welsh premiership is there because some people still enjoy club rugby and players making the step up need a degree of semi-professional teams to compete. It's amateur levels that the WRU needs to sort out. Cross Keys and Llanelli are yet to chirp up despite also making the latter stages of this competition. Also, Ponty don't win the premiership every year. And if you think Ebbw Vale are going to rollover on the weekend then you'll be in for a nasty shock. #bridgend

munkian wrote:Their most rabid fan is telling various journalists to 'shut up' when they have brought up this fact..

Owenins?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

munkian wrote:Their most rabid fan is telling various journalists to 'shut up' when they have brought up this fact..

Owenins?

'shocker'

I don't understand, Pontypridd will be represented in this cup, they will be playing for the Blues A team...

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:There was no qualification to a higher-level tournament before the regions were created

Ah right. I must have imagined the pre-regional Heineken Cup games then...

IronMike wrote:I don't understand, Pontypridd will be represented in this cup, they will be playing for the Blues A team...

Yes. Not content with having 2 teams...Richard Holland now has created another Cardiff Rugby Ltd team called Cardiff Blues 'A'

You couldn't make it up

Steffan wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:There was no qualification to a higher-level tournament before the regions were created

Ah right. I must have imagined the pre-regional Heineken Cup games then...

The professional teams will still be playing in Europe.

There are plenty of leagues around the world where the second tier (be it professional or semi-professional) do not get to join the top tier if they win the 2nd tier competition. NZ, SA, Aus, Ireland, etc. That's the model we're following with regional rugby - regional/provincial/Super Club. Same horse, different jockey. But they're all ring fenced. It would be a nonsense to allow the winner of the Welsh Prem to become a pro team each year. You'd have to change the funding stream, transfer the pro players from the Pro side to the newly promoted semi-pro side, re-negotiate their contracts because of this, try to get new sponsors and backers for this new side who would be willing to foot the new wage bill (because the WRU only funds part of it), and this team would change every year. Could be Ponty this year, then they might struggle and go back down so might be Ebbw next year. We've seen how long it takes for new teams in a pro league (Italians and the Welsh regions). Changing them every year with promotion and relegation just makes no sense.

If any of the Welsh semi pro teams were arguing their case from a position of strength I could understand but Keys are the only ones to have ever made the Final, hardly a glowing recommendation that the status quo should be kept.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Steffan wrote: Llanelli Scarlets 'U' team (basically Pembroke Dock High School Old Boys) 5 times are year

Why don't the Scarlets get a "z" team too?

More importantly Pembroke Dick doesn't have a secondary school (high school, grammar school, comprehensive or even accademy).

Not sure I truly understand the Byzantine politics of Welsh Rugby, but I do like the idea of a B&I competition between the clubs just a rung below the top level. I think it's great for the game in general.

doctor_grey wrote:Not sure I truly understand the Byzantine politics of Welsh Rugby, but I do like the idea of a B&I competition between the clubs just a rung below the top level.  I think it's great for the game in general.    

Its not that complicated. Wales is a small country with a small population concentrated in the South. We can't realistically sustain more than 4 professional clubs due to population and financial restrictions.

Despite these facts, some people still live in the past and think having a professional rugby club in the top competition under their town's name is some sort of God given right that is protected by the Geneva convention. They will use any excuse to claim they are being victimized and that all other clubs in the league are in the same boat and agree with them - newsflash - they don't.

In effect Pontypridd are already a Blue's A team as they have had 18 registered Blues players play for them this year - a quote from Richard Holland "This season we have provided Pontypridd RFC with extensive player support, with 18 contracted senior players from Cardiff Blues featuring for them alongside Paul John as Head Coach"

Be interesting to see how much Pontypridd have contributed to the wages of these 18 players and Paul John.

Yeah but Ponty fans conveniently ignore that fact Pyle.

This is definitely going ahead, I don' think any other clubs will moan - and if they do it won't be so public.