Why doesn't Vitali get enough credit for his achievement?

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A Boxer technically undefeated if u consider the two matches he lost due to injuries not made by opponent and in both matches he was leading hands down on all referee cards. One of the biggest knockout ratios, this guy last all 12 rounds against any heavyweight pitted against if needed, one of the best chins I have seen in the history.

Unlike Wlad Vitali is more aggressor yet plans his punches in a much calculated way, he doesn't hug and thug like his brother Wlad does, Lewis certainly knew he had remote chance of a win on a rematch with Vitali at that time and hence timely saved his legacy, however Lewis knows very well he always has his chance against Wlad if he could get one of his right upper punch even if happened to be by accident.

Vitali in my view should easily make top 10 boxers of all time and could close in top 5, yes I would agree Boxers like Ali, Tyson, Robinson, Foreman, Frazier were there and could be above Vitali's accomplishments, but having seen Vitali fight and box I would certainly give him benefit of doubt to be along this great group.  

Even Lewis in the condition he was in would have knocked Klitschko out if the fight had gone on I think. He had woken up and was starting to land some big shots.

Lewis was passed his peak, Vitali hadn't reached his peak. Lewis was in training for a world title fight against Douglas, Vitali was in training for an under-card fight against whoever. I think the only fact of the matter is that Lewis refused a big money rematch.

The reason the Klitschkos didn't get much credit is because the US centric boxing press didn't like the fact that not only are they not American, they are Russian/Soviet. Imagine if a white American HW had achieved what the K's have.

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Lewis was passed his peak, Vitali hadn't reached his peak. Lewis was in training for a world title fight against Douglas, Vitali was in training for an under-card fight against whoever. I think the only fact of the matter is that Lewis refused a big money rematch.

The reason the Klitschkos didn't get much credit is because the US centric boxing press didn't like the fact that not only are they not American, they are Russian/Soviet. Imagine if a white American HW had achieved what the K's have.

I really wish we'd seen that Lennox Lewis vs Kirk Douglas match......

With Wlad Klitschko against Michael Douglas on the undercard?

Would have been huge.

He's got three big problems legacy wise...

1. He lost to a way past it heavy Lennox Lewis in a fight where he was way too easy to hit.......Never taught head movement in the Ukraine...

2. Corrie Sanders is his best win........and he was no great shakes...

3. His brother ruling (like the Williams sisters at tennis) at the same time makes a mockery of the game.......and makes winning the heavyweight title seem as easy as shelling peas..which cheapens the belt and the achievement... when it should be the greatest prize in sports..

hazharrison wrote:

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Lewis was passed his peak, Vitali hadn't reached his peak. Lewis was in training for a world title fight against Douglas, Vitali was in training for an under-card fight against whoever. I think the only fact of the matter is that Lewis refused a big money rematch.

The reason the Klitschkos didn't get much credit is because the US centric boxing press didn't like the fact that not only are they not American, they are Russian/Soviet. Imagine if a white American HW had achieved what the K's have.

I really wish we'd seen that Lennox Lewis vs Kirk Douglas match......

You seen the movie tough guys? Douglas does lewis in 2. Burt Lancaster does vitali with a spinning back kick a la pele reid.

Lancaster bottled out against the fat copper in that bar........Douglas had to help him out..

Bit like Wlad-Sanders..

kingraf wrote:

jimdig wrote:Vitali was training for years to take on Lewis. He got the fight on 2 weeks notice but his goal must have always been to fight Lewis.

It's completely different for Lewis. Lewis had never heard of vitali, probably never seen any footage of him fighting, it's the archetypical example of taking a boxer too lightly.

The first 2 rounds must have been, "wholly sh1t, this white guy can fight, manny told me larry Byrd beat this guy, wtf"???

This isnt some Chinese movie, or Dragonball Z, where the protagonist seeks vengeance on someone and trains in a hyperbolic time chamber using anti-gravity to get stronger. It also isnt Marquez-Pacquiao IV, where Marquez took a year off, drinking his own urine, finding his inner spirit animal. Vitali may have been looking for Lewis, but he did have other fights to take care of. I mean Frazier want training for years to face Ali, in FOTC, he probably knew that at some point he'd have to face him, but its ridiculous to claim Vitali would have been in Lewis-mode for years... And more especially that he was prepared for Lewis (who before Johnson was slated to face Tyson II) to lose two opponents on the off chance... If anything, chances are higher, that he would have eased up on his camp, against what was supposed to be an easy opponent, to enable him to be at full tilt for his fight/camp with Lewis. Or even worse he coould have been tapering off for his fight, when the Lewis news came through, which might have made him go harder when he normally wouldnt have.

Raf, a bit of tongue in cheek with my comment. My meaning being that withewis being a long reigning champion, vitali must have studied him, watched his fights, thought out what he'd do etc. Lewis wouldn't have been in Lewis's thoughts too much.

Other points being that Lewis was fat. I take it you've reviewed his boxrec stats when you say he's 6lbs heavier etc. I remember what he looked like, and he was fleshy. The weight stat doesn't tell you everything.

catchweight wrote:No sorry, but you are being ridiculous. Tyson was a great heavyweight. Sanders was not.

If you cant look at the facts of the Klitschko/Lewis fight and see which fighter benefited from short notice. Which fighter was hungrier. Which fighter was more motivated then there is something wrong.

Klitschko could not beat a 3rd rate Lewis. That is pretty much the story of the fight. A fully fit, motivated Lewis would do an absolute number on Klitschko.

I don't quite agree there, Lewis might not have beaten a prime Tyson [Pre-92] anyways first.

Secondly, Lewis was the heavyweight champion and he is so used to big fights, in contrast it was Vitali's first every legendary fight and its obvious he was nervous and yet he was comfortably leading on all judges score card and Lewis was almost a dead meat by the end of 5th.

Lewis wanted a rematch with Rehman but not against Vitali?   simple reason he knew very well he won't be lucky 2nd time.

Last but not least its not as if Vitali is like 10 years younger to Lewis, Vitali if I am right was only 4 and 1/2 years younger than lewis, so certainly it wasn't Vitali's peak of physical prowesses.

For me a real legendary champion should have given a rematch but he was a scared puppy, and now why he wants a match vs Wlad and not Vitali ?  coz he knows very well one upper right punch will end the contest in his favor against Wlad but it won't happen against Vitali.

Maybe he didn't want a rematch because he beat Vitali and lost to Rahman......

But you sound like a WUM with all this scared puppy crap.....So let's just say you're right..

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:A Boxer technically undefeated if u consider the two matches he lost due to injuries not made by opponent and in both matches he was leading hands down on all referee cards. One of the biggest knockout ratios, this guy last all 12 rounds against any heavyweight pitted against if needed, one of the best chins I have seen in the history.

Unlike Wlad Vitali is more aggressor yet plans his punches in a much calculated way, he doesn't hug and thug like his brother Wlad does, Lewis certainly knew he had remote chance of a win on a rematch with Vitali at that time and hence timely saved his legacy, however Lewis knows very well he always has his chance against Wlad if he could get one of his right upper punch even if happened to be by accident.

Vitali in my view should easily make top 10 boxers of all time and could close in top 5, yes I would agree Boxers like Ali, Tyson, Robinson, Foreman, Frazier were there and could be above Vitali's accomplishments, but having seen Vitali fight and box I would certainly give him benefit of doubt to be along this great group.  

This is completely wrong.

Lewis punched him and cut him. Seen the fight many times so you're argument has been corrected.

If you can kindly show the video you saw which brought the cut by Lewis Punch I would be more than glad to correct my article.  

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Maybe he didn't want a rematch because he beat Vitali and lost to Rahman......

But you sound like a WUM with all this scared puppy crap.....So let's just say you're right..

I thought Boxing is an aggressive sport, so scared puppy statement makes me a WUM?   

I was a fan of Lewis and wanted him to beat the Poopie outta Holyfield and was happy when it happend the 2nd time around, but to be frank Lewis made his legacy fighting fighters off their prime, be it Tyson or Vitali most legendary fighters Lewis fought were off peak.

Rematch argument was simple coz, had lewis lost the match he would have surely did everything on his hand to get a rematch to save his legacy but coz he scrapped a lucky win he didn't wanna take a second risk, a legendary champion should have really given a proper chance to a upcoming legend.

Last but not least why the hell he wants to fight Wlad now?   and why can't Vitali 10- 11 years back?  

hazharrison wrote:

Mayweathers cellmate wrote:Lewis was passed his peak, Vitali hadn't reached his peak. Lewis was in training for a world title fight against Douglas, Vitali was in training for an under-card fight against whoever. I think the only fact of the matter is that Lewis refused a big money rematch.

The reason the Klitschkos didn't get much credit is because the US centric boxing press didn't like the fact that not only are they not American, they are Russian/Soviet. Imagine if a white American HW had achieved what the K's have.

I really wish we'd seen that Lennox Lewis vs Kirk Douglas match......

  ....what was his name Kirk something or other. When Vitali smashed him up i remember Larry Merchant saying he looked like a Whale being harpooned.

catchweight wrote:The whole scenario blatantly favoured Klitschko irrespective of whether it was Lewis' own fault for his condition. People are trying to argue that it favoured Lewis some how.

The scenario was that both men had a fortnight to prepare for the other. I don't see how the dice were loaded big-time in Vitali's favour, personally. The way some of Lewis' die hard fans talk, it's as if the situation was somehow unfair on him or something (might not be what you're saying, mind you, but a point to cover all the same).

Toney clearly wasn't in shape when he fought Tiberi and Thadzi, which no doubt contributed to his horrible performances in both fights. I'm sure that if he'd been in tip-top shape he'd have beaten them both comfortably as neither were really in his class - but does that likewise mean that the whole scenarios of those fights favoured Tiberi and Thadzi, or that Toney for whatever reason had everything going against him? Regardless of struggles with weight, promotional problems etc, Toney should have wiped the floor with them. If Vitali was half as average as a lot of people claim, then so too should Lewis, even if he was overweight and inactive.

A 37-year-old, 256 lb Lewis was still a big, big step up from anyone Vitali had fought beforehand. If you want to argue that Lewis was at a disadvantage because he hadn't trained properly, then fine - but isn't that countered and evened up a little bit by the fact that Vitali was making such a sudden leap in quality of opponent? Maybe it was asking a lot for Lewis to operate anywhere near his best given his time out of the ring and weight, but it was also a pretty big ask for Vitali to even give an all-time great Heavyweight like Lewis a decent scrap given his record had been built up against the likes of Herbie Hide and Larry Donald previously.

Both were up against it. I'm not saying that Vitali was massively disadvantaged - I'm just saying that, as far as I'm concerned, neither was Lewis, really. If a fighter hasn't done enough work in the gym, that's nowt to do with scenarios conspiring against them, for me. Being the best you can be includes what happens before the fight, too.

Like I said before, it seems like it's nearly impossible to agree that Lewis, prime for prime, is a much better fighter than Vitali without also having to totally deride and disregard Vitali's performance against him as well. Vitali lost, fair enough, but I don't see how people can fail to see why he felt hard done by and why he (and many others) felt that a rematch was in order.

So the long and short of it all.....Agree to disagree, mate!

88Chris05 wrote:

catchweight wrote:The whole scenario blatantly favoured Klitschko irrespective of whether it was Lewis' own fault for his condition. People are trying to argue that it favoured Lewis some how.

The scenario was that both men had a fortnight to prepare for the other. I don't see how the dice were loaded big-time in Vitali's favour, personally. The way some of Lewis' die hard fans talk, it's as if the situation was somehow unfair on him or something (might not be what you're saying, mind you, but a point to cover all the same).

Toney clearly wasn't in shape when he fought Tiberi and Thadzi, which no doubt contributed to his horrible performances in both fights. I'm sure that if he'd been in tip-top shape he'd have beaten them both comfortably as neither were really in his class - but does that likewise mean that the whole scenarios of those fights favoured Tiberi and Thadzi, or that Toney for whatever reason had everything going against him? Regardless of struggles with weight, promotional problems etc, Toney should have wiped the floor with them. If Vitali was half as average as a lot of people claim, then so too should Lewis, even if he was overweight and inactive.

A 37-year-old, 256 lb Lewis was still a big, big step up from anyone Vitali had fought beforehand. If you want to argue that Lewis was at a disadvantage because he hadn't trained properly, then fine - but isn't that countered and evened up a little bit by the fact that Vitali was making such a sudden leap in quality of opponent? Maybe it was asking a lot for Lewis to operate anywhere near his best given his time out of the ring and weight, but it was also a pretty big ask for Vitali to even give an all-time great Heavyweight like Lewis a decent scrap given his record had been built up against the likes of Herbie Hide and Larry Donald previously.

Both were up against it. I'm not saying that Vitali was massively disadvantaged - I'm just saying that, as far as I'm concerned, neither was Lewis, really. If a fighter hasn't done enough work in the gym, that's nowt to do with scenarios conspiring against them, for me. Being the best you can be includes what happens before the fight, too.

Like I said before, it seems like it's nearly impossible to agree that Lewis, prime for prime, is a much better fighter than Vitali without also having to totally deride and disregard Vitali's performance against him as well. Vitali lost, fair enough, but I don't see how people can fail to see why he felt hard done by and why he (and many others) felt that a rematch was in order.

So the long and short of it all.....Agree to disagree, mate!

Lewis was there for the taking. He hadnt trained properly, he was old and he was lacking motivation. Klitschko still couldnt win. Do you really think if Klitschko was all that great he would have lost to a blatently undercooked Lewis? I mean what more could Klitschko hope for? He had Lewis who was half assedly preparing for what he thought was an easy defence and wasnt switched on at all. Frank Bruno would have finished him in that state.

invisiblecoolers wrote:

catchweight wrote:No sorry, but you are being ridiculous. Tyson was a great heavyweight. Sanders was not.

If you cant look at the facts of the Klitschko/Lewis fight and see which fighter benefited from short notice. Which fighter was hungrier. Which fighter was more motivated then there is something wrong.

Klitschko could not beat a 3rd rate Lewis. That is pretty much the story of the fight. A fully fit, motivated Lewis would do an absolute number on Klitschko.

I don't quite agree there, Lewis might not have beaten a prime Tyson [Pre-92] anyways first.

Secondly, Lewis was the heavyweight champion and he is so used to big fights, in contrast it was Vitali's first every legendary fight and its obvious he was nervous and yet he was comfortably leading on all judges score card and Lewis was almost a dead meat by the end of 5th.

Lewis wanted a rematch with Rehman but not against Vitali?   simple reason he knew very well he won't be lucky 2nd time.

Last but not least its not as if Vitali is like 10 years younger to Lewis, Vitali if I am right was only 4 and 1/2 years younger than lewis, so certainly it wasn't Vitali's peak of physical prowesses.

For me a real legendary champion should have given a rematch but he was a scared puppy, and now why he wants a match vs Wlad and not Vitali ?  coz he knows very well one upper right punch will end the contest in his favor against Wlad but it won't happen against Vitali.

The reason Lewis wanted a rematch with Rahman is because he LOST and he wanted his title back and avenge the defeat. He beat Klitschko, while he was way off his best. Klitschko was a nobody and Lewis just wasnt arsed doing a full traning camp for a fight against a guy that he already beat when he was at his worst. The motivation was gone, the desire was gone. He was at the end of his career.

Klitschko was close to if not at his best for the Lewis fight. Lewis was so far off his best it was funny. And Lewis isnt coming back to face either Klitschko. He said something like if he got made an offer he couldnt refuse he would come back but otherwise hes happy to be retired.

He doesn't want to fight Wlad, it's just off the cuff comments to highlight the poor standard around today, one thing Lewis was not was a ducker. A boxer scared of taking fights doesn't fight David Tua, knowing one left hook would have ended it there and then.

Also if you don't think the cuts were caused by punches then I have nothing left to say on the matter. Vitali was peppered with right hands that left his face a horrendously bloody mess.

Well said Chris. Couldn't agree more with that argument.

Like I said, it generally takes a while, but we eventually end with the reality that a prime Henry Armstrong knocks Vitali in 15 seconds, and then eats a shocked Wlad's soul

I guess that would be amusing if it was on a thread that wasnt proclaiming Vitali Klitschko to be among the top 5 boxers in history. But somebody has to add balance suppose.

I see what you're saying Chris but I too would have to disagree to a large extent.

Lewis was 38 and in finally beating Holyfield and Tyson as well as Americans big hope in Grant had achieved everything he wanted to so I do cut him some slack for being ill prepared. He isn't like Wlad fighting crap fight after fight he was regularly fighting and beating some very good fighters so hadn't become accustomed to the Kirk Johnsons of the world.

As far as the 2 weeks notice goes, he was preparing to fight the aforementioned Johnson, a chubby relatively short heavyweight he could have taken out any moment he so chose. Vitali on the other hand was preparing to fight Boswell, no great shakes but Vitali was seen as a yellow belly in 2003 because of quitting against Byrd. Lewis' was done so he could to an extent afford to take an overmatched opponent like Johnson likely whereas Vitali had to prove himself worthy of being near the top echelons of the division and also prove he wasn't a coward.

Not sure I am convinced by the whole idea Lewis was under prepared/lacking motivation. I am not going to try and argue he was not getting old and had not lost a step through age because no fighter is immune from that.

However I struggle to imagine a fighter who has already lost two fights through poor preparation or through taking his eye of the ball makes the mistake, or puts himself in a position where it is a possibility, for a third time. Particularly not a fighter as bright as Lewis, who would be only too aware of what his earlier losses had cost him in terms of legacy and potential fights.

catchweight wrote:Lewis was there for the taking. He hadnt trained properly, he was old and he was lacking motivation. Klitschko still couldnt win. Do you really think if Klitschko was all that great he would have lost to a blatently undercooked Lewis? I mean what more could Klitschko hope for? He had Lewis who was half assedly preparing for what he thought was an easy defence and wasnt switched on at all. Frank Bruno would have finished him in that state.

Well in this case I think the context of the loss has some bearing. He lost a fight on cuts that he was winning beforehand. You want to win a fight by out-boxing someone decisively or taking them out of the equation with your punching power, ideally. Lewis didn't really do that on the night. You're talking as if Vitali's actual boxing was second best on the night, which is debatable. A cuts stoppage win when you were previously behind on the cards leaves some room for debate, in my eyes.

Hammersmith, don't get me wrong - I basically give Lewis a bit of a pass in the sense of his overall career when it comes to Vitali. Getting on a bit, with plenty of distinguishing moments already behind him, a (seeming) lack of real challenges on the horizon and it's not as if Vitali is a patsy in any case. So no issue there.

My issue is with the idea which seems to be growing that it was some kind of dominant, impressive win for Lewis, that the idea of a rematch was daft and that he didn't have the rub of the green on the night. The more Lewis' die-hards run with this story, the more it slowly becomes something along the lines of, "Yeah, Lewis turned up, destroyed Vitali, battered him for six rounds and that was that, end of story." True enough, Vitali didn't beat an aged, unfocussed Lewis, but not because of the reasons some are claiming.

Fat cat lifestyle rowley. He wasn't underprepared for McCall but got caught, he was clearly under prepared for Rahman, got caught. Does that mean you'll never be underprepared again? No in my opinion. If you have it in your make up to cut corners, it's in your make up.

Lewis was his heaviest ever against vitali. Because he was fighting a fairly unimpressive opponent in Johnson, or because  he'd lost motivation? Only lewis knows for sure, but it looks like both to me.

The short notice thing, didn't unfairly effect either fighter... But one of them was in better shape than the other. It doesn't detract from vitali's performance, because not being in shape is no excuse. It is something you might choose to factor in when assessing their respective merits and how a rematch might have gone.

The big surprise to me was that lewis took the fight. It was nearly a very costly misjudgement I think. It was patently obvious to anyone who'd wAtched any heavyweight boxing in the previous few years that vitali was the biggest challenge out there.

Rowley wrote:Not sure I am convinced by the whole idea Lewis was under prepared/lacking motivation. I am not going to try and argue he was not getting old and had not lost a step through age because no fighter is immune from that.

However I struggle to imagine a fighter who has already lost two fights through poor preparation or through taking his eye of the ball makes the mistake, or puts himself in a position where it is a possibility, for a third time. Particularly not a fighter as bright as Lewis, who would be only too aware of what his earlier losses had cost him in terms of legacy and potential fights.

A near 40 year old heavyweight with no challenges left to conquer and set to face an gimme opponent? Not that far-fetched surely. And backed up by his condition and performance in the ring. That was a well off colour Lewis against Klitschko.

Am by no means arguing he was at his absolute peak but guess I am with Chris on this one, the idea that Lewis was hugely disadvantaged is just not one that particularly sits right with me. Also think too much is made of his weight, as those of us of a certain age will testify it just gets harder to shift once you get to a certain age, is not indicative you are especially doing anything different lifestyle wise.

88Chris05 wrote:

catchweight wrote:Lewis was there for the taking. He hadnt trained properly, he was old and he was lacking motivation. Klitschko still couldnt win. Do you really think if Klitschko was all that great he would have lost to a blatently undercooked Lewis? I mean what more could Klitschko hope for? He had Lewis who was half assedly preparing for what he thought was an easy defence and wasnt switched on at all. Frank Bruno would have finished him in that state.

Well in this case I think the context of the loss has some bearing. He lost a fight on cuts that he was winning beforehand. You want to win a fight by out-boxing someone decisively or taking them out of the equation with your punching power, ideally. Lewis didn't really do that on the night. You're talking as if Vitali's actual boxing was second best on the night, which is debatable. A cuts stoppage win when you were previously behind on the cards leaves some room for debate, in my eyes.

Hammersmith, don't get me wrong - I basically give Lewis a bit of a pass in the sense of his overall career when it comes to Vitali. Getting on a bit, with plenty of distinguishing moments already behind him, a (seeming) lack of real challenges on the horizon and it's not as if Vitali is a patsy in any case. So no issue there.

My issue is with the idea which seems to be growing that it was some kind of dominant, impressive win for Lewis, that the idea of a rematch was daft and that he didn't have the rub of the green on the night. The more Lewis' die-hards run with this story, the more it slowly becomes something along the lines of, "Yeah, Lewis turned up, destroyed Vitali, battered him for six rounds and that was that, end of story." True enough, Vitali didn't beat an aged, unfocussed Lewis, but not because of the reasons some are claiming.

Im not claiming it was a great win for Lewis. Far from it. He was awful in the fight. But the fight has been rewritten something shocking in order to give paint Klitschko in a way more favourable light. People basically make out Klitschko was robbed or desperately unlucky when what really happened was he couldnt get the job done against a Lewis that was completely out of sorts. It used as evidence that Klitschko was a great and people want to gloss over Lewis' condition, age, motivation and so on for the fight. I maintain Lewis was there for the taking. Lots of heavyweights would have beaten him in that condition. The reason Klitschko couldnt was that he just wasnt good enough. For two or three rounds Lewis wasnt at the races. He eventually woke up and got the job done.

invisiblecoolers wrote:Last but not least why the hell he wants to fight Wlad now?

He doesn't. Next?

At no point do I see V Klit beating Lewis's Canadian butt in his prime or past it

Lewis was a fantastic heavy, one of the greats. Though he is a bit overrated by some of you guys. He is very lucky he didn't turn pro after 84 or he would of been knocked out by a certain fighter who's shell he dominated in 2002.

Completely subjective, absolutely no way of telling how Lewis turns out had he turned pro four years earlier.

A prime Lewis had every chance against a prime Tyson

Prime Tyson? Remind me what month was that again?  

Someone needs to do a thread where his prime is identified again, so we have a yardstick.

I get my prime Tyson's, peak Tyson's and "in his pomp" Tyson's confused. And then there's the pre and post Gus tomato Tyson.

Damned confusing.

Anyway, all of them knock out lewis inside a round, until Tokyo Tyson... who was the shell of a rotting corpse of a washed up shot Tyson. That version knocks lewis out in two.

Don't forget pinnacle, invincible and ultimate Tyson. We need dates for all these versions of Tyson.

Pinnacle, invincible and ultimate Tyson = 1988

We need days and months Steffan, not years. Pinnacle, invincible and ultimate Tyson were stages of progression.

I'm sure someone kindly did a calendar for us once.

Gus tomato Tyson - that's a new one on me. Love it.   

Gus tomato is a bit of folklore Jim. A guy on the old beeb board was trying to impress with his knowledge of Tyson. Unfortunately, when it was suggested that by referring to Gus tomato, he might not be the authority he suggested, he disappeared without trace.  

We were left without any parallel pearls of wisdom, until waingro appeared to tell us all that vitali was wladimir's brother.

They remain my two personal favourites from (far too many) years frequenting boxing boards.

The unbeatable boxing board moment was IronNaz's Calzaghe-Lacy thread.

Why?

Simple.

Plenty of fish was my personal highlight. Nothing to do with boxing,but seeing ceej nearly reduced to a breakdown was a very happy moment.

It did lead to the end of LLR though unfortunately too.

If only moderation was as relaxed as it is around here.... 

I'm still upset that I wasn't around on the old BBC board in time to catch Ceej / POFgate.

GreenGiant's retirement thread wasn't bad, though!

LRR was always looking for trouble with me.....Always "owning" me apparently too.....Added to Frankie pie, Fightnews and Sweetdeano I always knew who'd be commenting first on any of my threads...

The bottom line with Lewis-Vitali is that we saw an old,heavy, uninspired Lewis beat a guy who dominated the sport with Bro for a decade..

That really tells you all you need to know ..

Was it plenty of fish that saw the end of LRR, haz and azumah? I'd been away for a month or so and when I returned, I just heard there'd been a spat and they'd been kicked off. Not that spats between them were unusual. Shame we lost some good posters... And haz 

Haz took a silent beating on that thread apparentlt

To be fair to haz, I don't think any if his beatings are silent truss

How do you guys think Marciano or Louis would of got on against Vitali? Even Joe Frazier?

AdamT wrote:How do you guys think Marciano or Louis would of got on against Vitali? Even Joe Frazier?

Out of the three of them, I'd give Louis the best chance and that's a long shot. Marciano and Frazier would have less of a shot I reckon. They're just going to come forward and try to overpower Vitali and I don't think either of them are big enough for that.

Louis ??....

Frazier had the best chance......bobbing and weaving.. big left hook..

Frazier Ko 2....

Louis a blown up cruiser...Who is too stand up..