Pro12 Final 31/5

First topic message reminder :

The Ladyboys v The Soap Dodgers
At RDS Dublin, 6.15pm.

Live on RTE/BBC ALBA/ BBC WALES/TG4/Mediaset

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU, 111th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Leighton Hodges, Ian Davies (both WRU)
Citing Commissioner: Maurizio Vancini (FIR)
TMO: Derek Bevan (WRU)

***
Glasgay

15. Peter Murchie
14. Sean Maitland
13. Alex Dunbar
12. Peter Horne
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Finn Russell
9. Chris Cusiter

1. Gordon Reid
2. Dougie Hall
3. Jon Welsh
4. Jonny Gray
5. Al Kellock
6. Rob Harley
7. Chris Fusaro
8. Josh Strauss

16. Pat MacArthur
17. Ryan Grant
18. Moray Low
19. Tim Swinson
20. Leone Nakarawa
21. Niko Matawalu
22. Ruaridh Jackson
23. Sean Lamont

Cuige Laighean

15: Rob Kearney
14: Fergus McFadden
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Zane Kirchner
10: Jimmy Gopperth
9: Eoin Reddan
1: Cian Healy
2: Sean Cronin
3: Mike Ross
4: Devin Toner
5: Mike McCarthy
6: Rhys Ruddock
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

REPLACEMENTS:
16: Aaron Dundon
17: Jack McGrath
18: Martin Moore
19: Leo Cullen
20: Sean O'Brien
21: Isaac Boss
22: Ian Madigan
23: Darragh Fanning

And we handed that try to leinster on a plate

The scoreline is unrealistic,this has been a much closer game than that.8-10 points would be a fairer reflection imo.

This is much better from Leinster in attack than we've seen from them in ages. Hopefully they play more like today next season.

Score line does flatter us though

Scrumpy wrote:Why wasn't it held at a neutral stadium?

Because thats not part of the rules... Leinster won the league stage, they pick the venue.

Glasgow outclassed in the end. They looked panicky and tired from 50 minutes on. At that point it was going to be close or it wasn't but the calmer heads were always going to prevail.

Hard luck Glasgow fans. Keep believing.

Weegies, ye had us on the rack for the best of 65 mins. Cudda shudda. But then our squad-depth, nous  and leadership came to the fore. 
Next year. Use the pain. We had to. 

Have a great night in Dublin lads.   

Hard luck Glasgow, well played Leinster. Fantastic game.

On a positive note, a former weegie did just score a try in the Top 14 Final!

Golden wrote:This is much better from Leinster in attack than we've seen from them in ages. Hopefully they play more like today next season.

Score line does flatter us though

Big time bro. They scare the shoite out of us,  everytime.

Heaslip has been designer-scalped!

He's such a fashunista. Not a Captain. Its a boy.

Sick of Scottish sides always being gallant losers.

On a happier note the squashes goblin has just scored a try against Toulon.

Well done both teams.

1st 50 mins your man Nakawara was ridiculous with his handling. How was he holding on?

What a send off for Drico and Leo. Christ I love that O'Driscoll man.

Gibson wrote:Heaslip has been designer-scalped!

He's such a fashunista. Not a Captain. Its a boy.

He must have passed out at a party. Only excuse.   

Feel for Glasgow but theyre a young team and have been getting better year on year. Would be great for them, the league and NH rugby if they can climb the next rung and get some silverware next season.

Heaslip is an immense speler though. Hasn't missed a minute in all of the top games. Minimal injuries if any. Respect. 

Gowan Drico ya phookin boy ya! 

Thanks for the magic & the memories lad. Specially 2009. 

Leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Great touch by Heaslip there. There'll be some pints had tonight.

Great send off for Gibbes too. He has done an immense job developing one of the best packs in Europe.

As you can see the teams don't give a damn about the league.

Jennnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooo! 

Man. May just have a sly Ladyboy whaank on PORNHUB now.

Its been real. 

Love to the Weegies. Love yiz. Be proud and Believe. X. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttuA1UEUAI0

 BO'D. Hero

Well, great game. Leinster the better on the day. Injuries, and having to use the bench early, cost Glasgow. As did trying to force it late on, which gave a scoreline which flattered Leinster.

We will beat them next year at Scotstoun / Parkhead / Murrayfiwld.

Well done Leinster, better side won the game, no doubt about it. All part of the learning curve for Glasgow I hope. Its still been a great season and am very proud of the team and what they have put in to get there.

Onwards and upwards!

Well done Leinster, better side won. A good learning experience for Glasgow. Overall not too unhappy.

bad result for rugby. everyone here knows who is pushing attacking rugbyin the rabo.,

glasgow played rubbish . they lost that game

Very pleasing game from a Leinster perspective.  After an efficient but not altogether convincing season, the final was at least an opening up (ironically) of their more loose and instinctively attack minded sensibilities - and against the toughest team of the season too!  Nice and risky time to be so debonair!

People say the game was closer than the final Leinster flourish suggests.  Perhaps it was, and I'll admit I couldn't ever relax because I kept expecting a controlled and punishingly effective onslaught from Glasgow.  But in truth, it never really did come.  Leinster ate up any efforts from Glasgow through most of the game whilst still seeming quite comfortable for energy levels - that surprised me because I expected Glasgow to push the pace and make the effort tell on Leinster minds and bodies.  But Leinster contained in the first half and genuinely then just drove a tiring Glasgow out of the game in the second.

Impressive display that was physical and entertaining from both sides, but Leinster finally gave us a sense of where they really can go to in these fundamental games - against what was the best side of the Pro12 season, without really having to dig as deep as many of us probably expected.

Glasgow will perhaps now have to get a little bit more coy in their progress through next season.  I think they maybe suffered from always putting their whole deck of cards on the table virtually every time they played this year, which yes - it got them to the final but if you keep showing all you've got in every game, finally you expose yourself to the reality that you become an easier team to read. They'll have to try the 'wounded duck' a little in certain games to keep the opposition guessing.

All these posts show the class of a club and its fans,  that will get there in the end.

Its Leinster in 2007/8. Win the PRO12 and build for Europe.  Thats yer path. 

Ye need to feed this momentum and move on up. 

Support them in droves, ye feicers. Feed the Dream. 

And drink lots of pints on the way.    

Alive. Fancy a cuddle bro?  

Believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSPmtwA45VM

SecretFly wrote:Very pleasing game from a Leinster perspective.  After an efficient but not altogether convincing season, the final was at least an opening up (ironically) of their more loose and instinctively attack minded sensibilities - and against the toughest team of the season too!  Nice and risky time to be so debonair!

People say the game was closer than the final Leinster flourish suggests.  Perhaps it was, and I'll admit I couldn't ever relax because I kept expecting a controlled and punishingly effective onslaught from Glasgow.  But in truth, it never really did come.  Leinster ate up any efforts from Glasgow through most of the game whilst still seeming quite comfortable for energy levels - that surprised me because I expected Glasgow to push the pace and make the effort tell on Leinster minds and bodies.  But Leinster contained in the first half and genuinely then just drove a tiring Glasgow out of the game in the second.

Impressive display that was physical and entertaining from both sides, but Leinster finally gave us a sense of where they really can go to in these fundamental games - against what was the best side of the Pro12 season, without really having to dig as deep as many of us probably expected.

Glasgow will perhaps now have to get a little bit more coy in their progress through next season.  I think they maybe suffered from always putting their whole deck of cards on the table virtually every time they played this year, which yes - it got them to the final but if you keep showing all you've got in every game, finally you expose yourself to the reality that you become an easier team to read.  They'll have to try the 'wounded duck' a little in certain games to keep the opposition guessing.

Eat yer heart out Thornley.  

no for us scottish fans it was a failure.

on 5 / 10 they would win 7-8. wasnt their day.,

alive555 wrote:no for us scottish fans it was a failure.

on 5 / 10 they would win 7-8. wasnt their day.,

Alive man,
Ye were brilliant. Just ran out of players, nous and belief. 

We, on the other hand, became Leinster again. And when we do that, no team on the Planet can live with us.

Truth.
Not wumming. I really believe that.

Yer right Gibson, that break after Matawalu's knock on from behind your own posts (ffs) really summed up Leinster, sudden turnover and a gap even if it's 100m+ from the try line and they went for it. Totally deflated Glasgow and turned the tide.

Can only hope that Glasgow can become like Leinster, in ruthlessness and vision (but not in the haircut department...)

The Toulon HC QF defeat really hurts now. As does the mis-qualification that put us in that position in the 1st place. Home draw and the HC could so easily have been ours again. Weird eh? Numbehs.  

May we never play that badly in a huge game again. May lose, but... 

MOC let us free vanavond. He has already answered a question I wanted answering by mid next season.

We looked like Leinster again. Up till now we were beginning to drop to the depths of Munster, Tigers & Saffacens,  and that hurt inside. 

All I am saying... Is give MOC a chance. 



Then replace the Kumquat with Girv De Swerve.

GLove39 wrote:Yer right Gibson, that break after Matawalu's knock on from behind your own posts (ffs) really summed up Leinster, sudden turnover and a gap even if it's 100m+ from the try line and they went for it. Totally deflated Glasgow and turned the tide.

Can only hope that Glasgow can become like Leinster, in ruthlessness and vision (but not in the haircut department...)

I don't know...seems a lot of the Glasgow players are bowing to the hirsute sartorial elegance of D'arcy's pre-6N beast

GLove39 wrote:Yer right Gibson, that break after Matawalu's knock on from behind your own posts (ffs) really summed up Leinster, sudden turnover and a gap even if it's 100m+ from the try line and they went for it. Totally deflated Glasgow and turned the tide.

Can only hope that Glasgow can become like Leinster, in ruthlessness and vision (but not in the haircut department...)

Ja mon. Big akkord on de future and de haircuts bro. Its fukin embarrassing. Madigan is a proper roysh Ladyboy. I wouldnt  mind. He's no Sexy-Toes but... How much for de leetle boy Father? Come in from de side like Leo. 

I know yer gutted now bro. I well know how bad its feels. Took my Leinster 20 years to get where I even dared to have dreamed of. 

Be proud of your club and your team, mo chara. Be very proud. No BS. It just is. Ye are total roides to watch. Ye have your own home now. It can be expanded... The culture is growing. The Weegies ethos has been laid down. Thats the real key. It takes time and you will remember days like this when ye lift Silver. Your fans rock. See ye next year mo chara.      

Believe. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck1N1I-LzWc

Think Darcy was inspired by big Josh Strauss secretfly.

And as for Madigan's do why did he ask to look like an ice gem?

Also just to rub salt into open wounds, flicking through the channels and I stumbled upon ALBA's replay of the game, just as the moment where Matawalu knocks on at the try line

(Edit: where'd your last message go Gibson, now looks like lim talking to myself!)

Damn right, hate to see that sort of thing creeping in. Speaking of which, Devin Toner Mike McCarthy should be utterly ashamed of his Tom Daley impression. 6ft 4, 18 stone lock behaving like that is so embarrassing.

everyone knows the future is glasgow.

wrong team won.

they didnt click today if they did theres only 1 winner. net year . bad result for the rabo.

Was my wedding anniversary yesterday, so I couldn't watch the game live, but I saw the whole thing again this morning (knowing the result). Interesting times. Dispiriting defeat, but it shows where we are. We wanted to go further than we did last season. We did.

1. Well done to Leinster first of all. The best team on the day, plain and simple. How can you argue with four tries versus four penalties?

2. We got stage fright. Let's not deny it. We were so very, very far from the quality of execution that we saw in the past 9 games and that more than anything meant that we lost. You absolutely cannot visit the red zone that often and come away with nothing.

3. The reason that we didn't execute was (a) feeling overawed (Kellock admitted this later in interviews) and (b) lack of experience.

4. Niko has hopefully learned something from this game. There's a time to force things and a time not to. Strauss will have given him a talking to. The old Niko Conundrum. Liability or asset? I still say 'asset'.

5. Tactically, we were off the mark. Leinster were much more vulnerable up the middle and we were not patient enough. There's a reason that 'earn the right to go wide' is trotted out. Because it's completely true.

6. Lots of little mistakes and ultimately it had a dispiriting effect, fatal for a momentum team like Glasgow. Never seen so many dropped balls from these players.

7. I would have chosen Hogg and Bennett for this game, but even if Toonie had done that, I can't see that we would have won.

8. On the Glasgow players:

- Cusiter is going to be a big, big loss. Niko doesn't do what he does and nobody else on our books is the same quality in that position.
- Kellock has been a wonderful servant but that surely has to be it for him. Your captain cannot be a passenger and in Gray, Naka, Swinson and possibly also Ryder we have players that mean he should not appear in the 23.
- Slightly nervous about both Cross and Low going. Bit light in the props department, especially if we realistically aren't going to see Michael Cusack again.
- The reason that we need Hogg to stay is the same reason that Saracens demonstrated at the weekend why they need to sign him. 'Spark' is at a premium in any rugby league.

9. Glasgow is in an interesting place now and recruitment during the summer is crucial. Leinster proved that you cannot have flab anywhere - there has to be quality throughout and whilst we have one of the best squads in the league, there is definitely room for improvement and I hope that this high placing in the league will be attractive to other players who might want a new club.

I think that we need:
- a world class 10 (who doesn't) from whom the excellent Finn Russell can learn;
- a very high quality distributing scrum half;
- at least one tighthead whom we should assume will be our first choice (are we really banking on the Coo returning?);
- given that Harley played more games than any other player in the league this season, another blindside - Strokosch would be perfect;
- if Hogg goes, another quality full back or utility back.

Well done to the Leinster kids.

Couldn't post right after the game as it was too hard to write..

For me it was very disappointing and to be honest i think Glasgow went backwards from last year performance in the semi.

Glasgow tried to force things way way too much, where has the best defence in the league gone? the 1st 2 tries were way too easy..
Nakarawa ran too upright, this means he is pushed back into contact. Moray Low instead of Dr Geoff on the bench was a poor call im sorry.
Getting Matawalu on looked like a panic and desperate move, Glasgow tried to force things even more from then on.. doesn't send the right message to the players and for some reason i knew Matawalu was going to go for glory himself instead of passing the ball to either Gray jr or Strauss. For all the talk of Hogg being big headed, there is another one for you: Matawalu.
Cusiter will be sorely missed next season, class act.
Also Glasgow players looked rattled after 50 minutes, looked like it was one game too much for them.

Well done Leinster, probably your 2nd best performance of the season after Saints away but Glasgow made it easy for you.

GC - you've eloquently summed up the points I was going to make, especially regarding Kellock (he was a passenger) and niko (we saw all that's bad about him in one match).

I also agree that Glasgow's lack of big game experience really showed and I think it's why Glasgow were so tired and flat - they will have used up all their nervous energy in the days leading up to the game. The Leinster guys would have been relaxed and calm.

Final note regarding Russell - he has been a revelation this season, and his place kicking was superb yesterday - but his mini meltdown early in the 2nd half is a good reality check for us and shows exactly what we've got with him - a very inexperienced young man who will make mistakes.

What will disappoint the players most is that the performance just wasn't there - that will make losing a whole lot worse.

Small steps though - one better than last year, and next year they can go one better still!

Ola boys.
First things first; total respect to the Ladyboys. They deserved their win. Total respect plus to Gibson, one of my favourite posters: always eloquent and poetic.
Re. Finn Russell's mini meltdown; it coincided with the change in scrum halves. Was Niko putting him under pressure with poor quality ball? Would Jacko have coped better? Niko was more of a calamity than an asset last night but as I keep saying to Mrs Pip you love the bad bits of me as well as the two good days a year. With Niko the good , usually , far outweighs the bad.
Glasgow posters; Schiz, Asbo, IanBru I have yet to have a bad pint with you gentlefolks. GC, Fes, RDW et al thanks for a lovely season; it's been a rollercoaster.
The Weege have improved on last season and there is no reason this wont continue.
BELIEVE   
same battime same batplace next week?

Russell made a couple of mistakes for sure, but his kicking kept us in the game as well. We do need to run with him and Weir, both are still relatively inexperienced and need game time to improve. I don't think that bringing in an experienced FH is what we, or Scottish rugby needs. There is room for one more FH as well, another youngster maybe, or if Edinburgh don't want Heathcote, then we will have him!

If Niko is going to be our starting SH, then the coaches really need to work on him to tighten up his game just a little. We must not forget that he started most of last season, when at times we were unplayable. Other teams are expecting the unexpected from him now and he really needs to develop the more basic facets of his game. Henry will remain a solid back up and it remains to be seen what the two youngsters, Price and McConnell will bring to the party.

Welsh I though was one of our better players on the night, he at least got parity with Healey, who is one of the best LH's in the world. He is going to be our first choice TH, probably Scotland's as well. We are a bit light on back up there though, especially as the Cussack situation remains unclear. Ewan Murray is still without a club, we could do a lot worse than to bring him back to Glasgow.

Hoggy I think will stay next year at least. The slate needs to be wiped clean and he needs to be our starting FB. Murchie had another good game and in many ways justified his selection, but he does not have the X factor that Hoggy does. Hopefully he will rediscover the love and will decide to stay for a bit longer as well.

The game was a slightly sobering experience, if we could have scored just one try the belief would have come and it would have been a different game. as it was it just ebbed away during the second half and once Niko spilled that dive for the line, there was only going to be one winner.

Yes, we got a bit of stage fright and did not play the game we know we can play. We must not forget though how well Leinster played and that they did not let us settle and play our game. That was a master class in how to win a cup game and is to be applauded, even by the opposition. Plenty to learn from there, but Glasgow remain a young team and there is plenty improvement still to come.

I knew I'd seen this - Mike McCarthy did take a dive after the handbags with Reid

https://vine.co/v/Mp7m9jDlVtn

Credit to Glove for the video


Shocking from big Mike!

Good post George C.

Forgive the musings of a neutral from afar but of the players you need - flyhalf is the most pressing. The outhalf is simply the most important player on the pitch. Munster needed ROG, Leinster had Sexton, Toulon needed Wilko, Ospreys have Biggar and even Ulster had David Humphreys at the helm when they last won silver. In short teams that win stuff have experienced 10s.
Russell looked really good for a lot of the game and probably more talented than Gopperth, yet his two kicks out on the full contrast starkly with Jimmy's pinpoint efforts. Maybe he just needs a good mentor, but then Townsend should be as good as any - or is that the problem?
Weir and Jackson are also young and have been dropped in the deep end without learning with the pressure off. They are bound to make mistakes and the result is that everyone seems to focus on their weaknesses rather than their strengths. Weir looked worse to me this season than last - a sign his confidence is shot?

Not sure what the answer is but that is a big question mark in the Warriors team.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I knew I'd seen this - Mike McCarthy did take a dive after the handbags with Reid

https://vine.co/v/Mp7m9jDlVtn

Credit to Glove for the video


Shocking from big Mike!

Hopefully an apology will be forthcoming a la Habanna. Don't need this kind of stuff in rugby, players need to realise that nothing much gets missed on camera these days!

Embarrassing and cringeworthy antics from 'big' Mike. Not what you'd expect of any rugby player, far less a massive second row   

The Great Aukster wrote:Good post George C.

Forgive the musings of a neutral from afar but of the players you need - flyhalf is the most pressing. The outhalf is simply the most important player on the pitch. Munster needed ROG, Leinster had Sexton, Toulon needed Wilko, Ospreys have Biggar and even Ulster had David Humphreys at the helm when they last won silver. In short teams that win stuff have experienced 10s.
Russell looked really good for a lot of the game and probably more talented than Gopperth, yet his two kicks out on the full contrast starkly with Jimmy's pinpoint efforts. Maybe he just needs a good mentor, but then Townsend should be as good as any - or is that the problem?
Weir and Jackson are also young and have been dropped in the deep end without learning with the pressure off. They are bound to make mistakes and the result is that everyone seems to focus on their weaknesses rather than their strengths. Weir looked worse to me this season than last - a sign his confidence is shot?

Not sure what the answer is but that is a big question mark in the Warriors team.

Totally agree Aukster and (if the usual lot will forgive me) I said as much at the start of the season. As RDS said, you can have all the talent you want, but Finn is just a kid and inevitably it showed in the cauldon. Am delighted with his progress this season, however. A diamond uncovered.

But back to the main point. I know that this is an unpopular view amongst my fellow dodgers of the soap but having two talented young 10s is really no enough. They need an experienced head who has actually won some things to learn from and if Glasgow has aspirations on going one better this season, we need to really blow the budget on such a player this summer.

Mike McCarthy is one of my favourite Irish forward, always thought he was better than that..

This does beg the question if they are coached to do things like that?

Yes a team needs a very good opportunistic, inventive and variable 10 - but the 10 publicity is sometimes overdone as the relationship is much more symbiotic.  A 10 also needs a very good, inventive and adaptable team.  One complements the other.

You might blame Russell for being a weak cog in the Glasgow team on the day, with some wayward kicking that seemed to suggest pressure was on him when in reality there wasn't a whole lot of it for the kicks.  So the storyline would be that the event got to him and dulled his potential and subsequently the team lost confidence.  

I'd say the team overall too have a responsibility to keep their 10s confident.  If they show that they themselves aren't getting traction through a game, whether that be in breakdowns, scrums, lineouts, offloading up the middle!!  etc... if the team are showing that the occasion is getting to more than the 10, then it's natural that the 10 begins to run out of ideas required to drag his players back into a game.  

He potentially panics a little and, in trying to turn the tide, he can be seen to run up some blind metaphorical alleys.  If Russell suffered, it's possible that was because he was watching his team be so uncharacteristically ineffective at breaking down the opposition in front of them.  In a sense he was used to the armchair ride usually provided by his team but got caught in the traffic light glare when the plans weren't working.

The 10 shouldn't expect armchair rides of course ...but neither should the team expect miracles from a 10 when their own efforts aren't making the necessary yards.

Russell isn't the one to blame...

Matawalu, Grant (scrum went to pot when he came one), Strauss and to a lesser extent Kellock are the one to blame.

I would hope that nobody is blaming Russell - I'm certainly not. He was playing Prem 1 rugby only months ago - am thrilled with him.

The fact remains that to bring him on in the optimal way requires the mentoring of a 10 who is currently still playing and who is both experienced at international level and has tasted success at least at club level. And if we think a player like that is Scottish, it pains me to say that we are kidding ourselves.

We need to aim high now. Someone like Toby Flood would have been perfect.