New Zealand v England 3rd test & the 2nd test review

First topic message reminder :

1000 posts and the 2nd test thread is blocked time to move onto the 3rd test in Hamilton.

What are England's chances of securing a win?
Could NZ win convincingly?
Will it be close again?
Who will play?
How much will the referee affect the game?

Let the banter begin..................

Oh, and feel free to discuss test's 1 and 2.

Yeh, everyone deserves a second chance, if he's knuckled down and improved his defence he certainly has great attacking instincts, excellent support play and a good finisher.

Its wade I have hopes for if we can ever get him on the park.

Re those ratings. Our forwards apparently did ok? Whilst it's hard to pick out individuals when there is collective failure surely the pack can't all get decent scores when, as a unit, they were butchered in the second half

In the context of 80 minutes the forwards had a decent match. I agree mostly with those ratings.

Our backs however largely failed to ignite in the way I, and the journalist, expected. Brown and care were sub-par, much as it pains me to say. 36 was v rusty, and Farrell and Burrell look either injured or jaded or exhausted.

yappysnap wrote:Anyway my England side for T3 would be:

Marler
Webber
Wilson
Lawes
Attwood (depending upon Launchberry's fitness, he's looked far from his dynamic best so far, it's been a long season so perhaps rest him)
Wood
Robshaw
Vunipola
Care
Burns (Farrel is off form and has played nearly every single England game, let's give Burns some more time)
Yarde
Eastmond (36 just makes too many mistakes, Eastmonds game was far cleaner in T1 and we need to reward good performances)
Tuilagi
Ashton
Brown

So pretty much our first choice pack, and a few changes in the backs.

That is the team I would go for other than Hartley starting for Webber. That's not to say Webber really deserves to be dropped but I feel Hartley is the slightly better player at the breakdown (Webber is stronger defender in the loose), an area we really struggled on Saturday. Also feel Webber is the better bench inpact option of the 2 of them.

On top of that I would go for a bench of
Webber, Mullen, Brooks, Slater (if Attwood starts, resting Lunchbox), Morgan (harsh on Haskell), Youngs, Cipriani (maybe Farrell if he is fit as he covers centers), Foden,

Can I make another plea on Launchbury's behalf?

It's Joe Launchbury, not Joe Launchberry.

LAUNCHBURY!

LAUNCHBURY!

LAUNCHBURY!

Call him Lunchbox, if you will, but if it's his name you want to use, then it's

LAUNCHBURY

How was it spelt Rugby Fan? I'm still getting my head around Tuilangie...

Or Farrel/Farrell, can never remember if he's an International flyhalf or a singer with daft punk.

Farrell out. Good thing really, this time. Hope he is properly fixed and firing for the new season.

England fly-half Owen Farrell has been ruled out of the third Test against New Zealand with a knee injury.

Farrell has suffered a strain to the medial ligament in his left knee which means he will miss Saturday's final game in Hamilton.

England head coach Stuart Lancaster said: "The knee has been scanned. It's disappointing for Owen as he was desperate to play in the final Test."

Fracking stupid to play him in T2 and risk making the injury worse. I dispair at times.

Was he injured before the test? It was his ankle that was bad at Saracens.

Cips chance to shine tonight then, if he flufs it Myler will be on the bench on Saturday

Very dissapointing for Owen, who on form and fit is a developing into a cracking player. Time to put the feet up and have a total recharge of the battery ready for next season.

But this gives Burns another crack at the whip.

good season Owen Farrell. take a very well earned rest and get yourself right for what is going to be a very very big 2014-15 season!

Reads looking more likely for this weekend according to the latest.

Only now can we start talking about the consecutive number record again. I notice it was totally absent until last weekends win, a credit to Englands credentials. Obviously most of thought we'd have lost one by now.

I think if Hansens truly got Fekitoa in mind for Conrads backup next year he should play him this week. Centre is a position you need to grow in and one year isnt long enough to become accomplished.

Plus we have our World cup squad- no newbies next year and to rejoin are Carter, Sonny Bill, Piatau, Read, and Romanos...thats it. Cant see anyone else making the side.

Are England awarding caps for the Crusaders game?

It'll be interesting to see how they play Read. Will he be a bench option or will they go for Kaino on the bench as impact? Or local home town hero Messam? Messam played a blinder against Ireland in Hamilton as did Cruden. I wonder how much that will affect opinion.

I think Crotty will start Tman simply because he has been in the squad and deserves some game time too. Manage Fekitoa and his nerves more easily by putting him on the bench and taking the pressure off. If Conrad Smith is out with a broken thumb then there'll be tests in the RC to try him out. Conrad Smith has shown though there's enough life in him for next year. What we're building is depth.

You've left out Cane who also hopoefully has a role to play next year and a way to manage McCaw better to make sure he's at his optimum for October next year. Todd in a way for the Crusaders who is another important player to ensure that. What is less sure if Woodcock and Mealamu have enough fire in them to keep going.

Sorry I thought Cane was in the squad. Woodcock and mealamu are there cos no ones putting their hand up. Our two biggest risk positions next year.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Are England awarding caps for the Crusaders game?

No, because its only a club side, like, for instance, the Barbarians.....

bedfordwelsh wrote:Are England awarding caps for the Crusaders game?

No

Thought the commentators said there few players winning first caps

Taylorman wrote:Sorry I thought Cane was in the squad. Woodcock and mealamu are there cos no ones putting their hand up. Our two biggest risk positions next year.

No, he's injured. Todd is injury cover even though he won't make the bench this Saturday which irks me that he doesn't get game time for the Crusaders match to see how he operates against the English backrow.

Farrell being out isn't all bad. I still maintain he is an overrated and limited player even though improvement in his game has been evident. A different 10 might bring out more from the English backs and moving forward his injury may be a blessing in disguise.

Hes already on.

Todd is going ok but it's been mostly England so far.

Waller & Slater going well and Cips has mostly picked the right options.

So they've changed their minds then. Good to hear. Is Slade playing?

No slade listed as playing on the scrum.com website. England 26-7 after the first half

Cheers, and bugger. Come on Canterbury!

Is it just me or is Attwood a bit of a Cat? For such a big bloke he doesn't seem to be very aggressive. To me his work in the contact area is way below what's required for a test second row. Lauchbury, Lawes and Parling are way out in front of him. Not impressed at all with his shift against the crusaders.

englandglory4ever wrote:Is it just me or is Attwood a bit of a Cat? For such a big bloke he doesn't seem to be very aggressive. To me his work in the contact area is way below what's required for a test second row. Lauchbury, Lawes and Parling are way out in front of him. Not impressed at all with his shift against the crusaders.

This is something Attwood has never quite shaken off. I'm was expecting big things of him today but he failed to deliver and probably fell behind Slater in the pecking order.

Good games from Waller, Hask, Dickson and Cips in particular against Crusaders. I can't remember if Waller's been on the bench or not for the Tests but i'd have no problem with him being there now.

Haskell's performance at 6 was very dynamic and physical, lots of eye catching work.

Dickson was very quick at the breakdown, very very quick, but no running threat. Perfest to balance Cips or Burns, not so good with Farrel.

Cips had a real good game, very good kicks, lovely crisp passing, brilliant turn of pace to set up Gray's try. All in all a consumate performance.

Couple of bad kicks from hand though. He's asked a few questions of Lancaster's selection but not sure he'll start ahead of Burns.

No I wouldn't have him ahead of Burns either. Just good to see him carrying club form into International form without any problems. Thought Dickson did a lot to make it so easy for him as well.

Yea I remember one bad kick out on the full, the others that went dead for 22's seemed tactical. Every time Crusaders had to kick it back and we made ground having had time to realign and get ready.

Realistic options for Saturday following Crusaders?

I can only really see Cipriani, Dickson, Watson and at a very big push Slater making it to the bench.

I suspect we will see -
Marler
Hartley
Wilson
Parling
Lawes
Wood
Robshaw
B.Vaunipola
D.Care (Youngs if Care not fit)
F.Burns
Ashton
Eastmond
Tuilagi
Yarde
Brown

Bench -
M.Mullan
Webber
K.Brookes
Launchbury
Youngs or Dickson
Cipriani
A.Watson or Foden

I'd be surprised if he dropped Twelvetrees but he was under par. Really don't want to see Lawes and Parling together.

This is not relevant to Saturdays game but if Stuart Lancaster wants a second 5/8 at12
has he considered Owen Farrell?Whatever happened to toby flood?

Think with Twelvetrees, Eastmond and Barritt we're ok for 12. Farrell can do a decent job at cover though. Flood is moving to France so won't be available for selection after the start of the new season hence may as well move on.

emack2 wrote:This is not relevant to Saturdays game but if Stuart Lancaster wants a second 5/8 at12
has he considered Owen Farrell?Whatever happened to toby flood?

Moving to France in the summer (well now) and was therefore dropped.

Ford / Farrell was the U20 10/12 pairing a few years back and went well. It's possible we'll see it again though it would be bold to try it before the RWC.

Since Farrell is confirmed as out for Saturday, it's all a bit moot in the short term.

I agree with above...i wouldnt want to see Parling and Lawes in the SR together. I rather Lawes and Slater.

You need a bit of power in there.

I was massively critical of twelvetrees last weekend. He was appalling. But i did see the good side of him in the 6n.

He just seems an inconsitant player. Now if he's selected and has a blinder...so be it, i will hold my hand up and respect that. But he cant afford another performance like last week.

If he starts I would want to see Eastmond on the bench without question!

Looking at the BBC reports, SL is still thinking over his selection for the 10 shirt; does that Cips was taken off after 47 minutes against the Crusaders mean he has done enough to earn the 10 shirt, if not, why say he is still pondering on it.

With Cips at 10, we could posibly see the Burrell / Manu combo that was talked up last year. His Sale type game of hitting big runners coming through to take flat ball would work very well with them two, add the posibility of Yarde, Ashton or Brown hitting the line at pace and a lot of posibilities start to open up.

One favour I would ask the AB, if Cips does play, can they all paint big buses on the front of their shirts to remind Cips how to tackle. He has been a different player defensively since he had that arguement with the bus.

Bus had to end its career though, so it's not all funny stuff. Think of the bus when making light of the Cips encounter.

Julian Savea's nickname is the Big Bus so no doubt he will be running hard at him and we can test this theory.

whens the team named kia? 6 and 13 the main interest...and Read.

Ah for me its straight forward:

10 Burns
12 Eastmond
13 Tuilagi

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ah for me its straight forward:

10 Burns
12 Eastmond
13 Tuilagi

+1

Seem to recall it was last Thursday so tomorrow we'll know 13, 10 and 8 and 6 run on positions.

Hoping Tuilagi is tried at 10 this week...

Handicap is +11pts @10/11 down from last weeks +13@10/11 and the first tests +19@Evens!

Been a licence to print money so far, although I was worried before NZ eased off/England rallied at the end of the last test.

This time i'm more concerned, as it's the last game before the flight home and the 20mins after HT in the last test showed what the AB's can produce at full throttle. I might lower my stake.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Seem to recall it was last Thursday so tomorrow we'll know 13, 10 and 8 and 6 run on positions.

Hoping Tuilagi is tried at 10 this week...

Fullback maybe. Or scrum half

... i like him at scrum half. Who needs 10 man rugby when you can have 9 man rugby. Stick to our core values i say.