Should Adam Jones call it a day?

With 95 Welsh caps and 5 B+I Lions caps should Adam Jones call it a day?
Taken off after 31mins vs SA can be described as only one thing, humiliating!

He is a legend of the game and deserved better treatment from Gatland, sub him at half time if you have to but not during the 1st half.

Adam Jones has not been playing particularly well for a while, however he has never really let the international side down. Given the options we have in SA at the moment, Adam will most likely still be in the match day 23 next week.

If he is your best TH he should play. Doesn't matter age or reputation.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:If he is your best TH he should play. Doesn't matter age or reputation.

But if he is not the best, and is possibly not the second best, then he should not get in the squad, regardless of reputation.

Looking at the bashing his fellow forwards took from the boks he was better off watching from the stands! ...

Sorry to say it.. but I think Adam's days are numbered... but so are Gethins... Neither had a good game IMO..

I think its time for Adam to make the call himself and go out at he top (or near it)

Scrumpy wrote:I think its time for Adam to make the call himself and go out at he top (or near it)

I believe he is yet to sign a contract for next season with a region/club, so the next few weeks should be interesting.

Should Adam Jones call it a day?

Didn't Gats already call it for him?

He'll find it's tougher to make a comeback when he doesn't have Ireland to go back to.

Gats ruthlessly drops another legend and tells his adoring public the very reason he did it.

He needs to sort his club carear out as he is not getting gametime dwon at the Os no more, Dragons would love him

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:If he is your best TH he should play. Doesn't matter age or reputation.

But if he is not the best, and is possibly not the second best, then he should not get in the squad, regardless of reputation.

100% agree. Reputation doesn't matter. Neither does the age for a TH. If there are two better THs than him he shouldn't be in the squad. However if he had one poor game and there aren't 2 better TH options available for Wales he should still be picked.

I don't think he should call it a day but he should no longer be Wales first choice tighthead (unless he hits a vein of form). He is curently behind Lee but ahead of Rhodri, but Rhodri is probably a better impact sub, so.............?

He needs to sort out his contract with the Ospreys and the WRU should back off on the central contract rubbish and let him do so.

Seagultaf wrote:He needs to sort out his contract with the Ospreys and the WRU should back off on the central contract rubbish and let him do so.

He might come to regret not jumping on that central contract offer when it was on the table...

Should he call it a day off the back of one dismal performance (didn't hit 1 single ruck, fell off a tackle, made 1.5 tackles and carried once for 2 metres) He lacked any aggression.

No he shouldn't. To suggest he should shows a complete lack of comprehension of not only his game but also the role of a prop.

But he is becoming more immobile, suffers from the inability to hit at scrum time and offers nothing else at the moment. He is not too old but he is at the latter end of his career so does he have time to turn it around. The decision to sub him marks a huge shift in the thinking of Gatland about the front row which will probably be Gethin Owens and Lee this week

I wouldn't drop him but i wouldn't start him either. To of our leading tightheads in Adam Jones have has such falls from grace. I'm not comparing Jarvis to Adam's standards but last yeas Jarvis was immense for the ospreys at scrum time and did well for wales; both have struggles under the new laws.
I will agree with scrumpy for once though and say Gatland was horrible to humiliate him like that. If he believed he wasn't fit enough to last the 40 then don't start him. Should have went with Samson anyway on form. Even if it was an extra 7 minutes he played it wouldn't have made that much difference. Gatland treated him terribly.

He shouldn't call it a day, but he needs to work his ass of in the off season. He needs to get back tot he fitness he was in 2011,12,13. It's not just his scrummagging that gone back but his tackle rate. People day he was only good for scrummaging but believe it or not he got around and tackled his heart out most of the time.
But there is competition coming through, another season or two for Rhodri and he will be a stable option as the least, Nicky Thomas is coming through and is as good a scrummager as Samson was 2 years ago (very promising prop) and i'm most excited about Craig Mitchell coming back and playing regularly. I haven;t seen him under the new laws but he has always been a top class tight head when i have seen him and just needs a season without any bad injuries. Overall though he really needs to work his ass off if he wants to make it to 100 wales caps and the next world cup because we have more depth at tighthead now than we ever have.

We should see James Owens and Lee but we won't.

There is no place for sentimentality in rugby. Jones needed to come off because he wasn't playing rugby. its that simple, you don't wait until a convenient break you make the change, he is the coach not a nanny, the team and the test are what counts not an individual's reputation

Adam Jones's days were numbered when the scrum engagement changed. He was the master of winning penalties in the hit, but without that his effectiveness has been severely limited. That's been apparent from quite early on. Wales could have had two years to give two new tightheads the exposure they need, but with only c10 tests left until the RWC I don't think they have long enough.

The thing is he should have done it with a few more people earlier on and for the last few games now.

Better late than never I guess but lets hope we don't see the same old guard this week now we have nothing to lose.

Adam was clearly a passenger in that game. The game happened around him. He had no engine in him. Frankly he should not have started, the game is too quick for him now. Awesome scrummager in his day though.

The problem being is the fact that he wasn't getting regular gametime at the Os towards end of season so fitness was an issue.

I still think Jenkins did play as well as people say he did, he got pinged few times in the scrum and I would have taken both off and would def start James and Lee next week.

It does make me wonder what Gatland watches sometimes, I said back in the six nations that his performance was falling away.

Jenkins was never the best scrummager but his work around the park was at his peal immense and thats what kept him ahead of the game not only in Wales but around the world.

Now whilst he still has a good engine for a prop that element of his game is not what it used to that and as I said he was never the strongest scrummager means he is starting to struggle.

James whilst not having the engine Jenkins has is the better scrummager technically and after all thats a props main job first and foremost.

James is a penalty machine, but it depends on the ref which way the penalty goes!

Scrumpy wrote:James is a penalty machine, but it depends on the ref which way the penalty goes!

Lets be honest which ref really knows whats going on at the scrum, majority of time its a lottery.

I don't believe Adam Jones should call it a day just yet but I do believe Adam's best days are behind him now. Samson Lee is a ready made replacement and did well when he came on. Lee is a good scrummager and is the future tight head above Rhodri Jones who I'm not convinced is a 3. It was sad to see Jones taken off after just 33 mins. Brought back memories of the Hansen days. Adam has been struggling with the new scrum laws and we need to start building for the World Cup. Adam would be a good replacement to have in the team with 15/20 minutes on the clock.

Samson Lee should start ahead him on Saturday. He deserves to.

i disagree that he is a bench option; he could never be described as an impact player. He needs to drop some weight and get some fitness back, Just watched 20 minutes of the 20111 RWC Gmae to compare and he was hitting rucks, saturday he was just lumbering from breakdown to breakdown and rarely even arrived just joined the defensive line before lumbering to the next breakdown or walking. The guy needs a rocket and a diet/fitness programme because th elder he gets the heavier that lard is becoming.

He is not done yet but has been our front line for a very long time, i hope he sorts himself out for the autumn to compete again.

There are no sacred cows in Wlaes, not even the great Adam Jones.

If his fitness levels are not acceptable would the Welsh coaching team not have picked up on it before selecting the team? A few times in the past I've thought maybe his fitness wasn't where it had been in seasons gone by but he's usually managed to turn it around and prove me wrong - hopefully he can turn it around again this time.

It's a shame he's struggled this season with the new scrum rules. He's one of my favorite players as much for coming across as a top bloke as well as TH. His situation now kind of reminds of what happened with Martyn Williams 4 years ago - they tried to manage him through to the World Cup only for alternatives to appear quicker than maybe was expected. I've not seen that much of Lee but he certainly seems a decent international prospect.

Adam Jones is not the force he used to be but it is Gethin Jenkins who is the real weak link. He has looked poor for quite a while now. Too many penalties and now slow round the park and missing tackles.

I can't see Gethin or Jones making the RWC on current form.

Scrumpy wrote:I can't see Gethin or Jones making the RWC on current form.

I certainly think its a big ask for Jones, Jenkins does have the fitness still and if he can even keep to his current levels he would still be a good squad option.

We have some young props coming through so the experience of James and Jenkins could be vital. Its such a shame for me that none of the Regions tried to get Gill back for Wales, I know he's been injured but he seems to have lost his way at Sarries and was been Mako in the pecking order.

Jones' issue is clearly fitness. A good break and a dedicated unique fitness regime would make all the difference. No reason why he cannot make the next RWC especially as the alternatives are nothing special. Think Os du Randt or Leonard etc. Props can play on a while. Os had a fitness and training program completely separate from the rest of the Cheetahs or Boks teams specially designed to have him peaking each Saturday.

The scrum changes have deactivated Adam's best bits and the realisation of that has demoralised him to an extent, I'd suggest.  
His heart might be drifting off the boil now for International rugby.  
It's a little like if Tennis rules changed to claw back on the technological advances in racket making.  Back to wooden rackets.  A lot of back court grunters and groaners, and style icons, would probably leave the sport, as the goalposts would have been changed and thus their considered strengths (fashionable sports wear and things like that ) would be negated.

If other props can adapt then so can Adam. Besides his overall game, defence, ball carrying, cleaning out etc should be more important that being able to milk a penalty from a scrum. All he needs to do is maintain parity there. Better fitness / conditioning would assist his overall game. On the weekend he was fine in the scrums but well behind the pace of the game outside the scrum.

MMaaxx wrote:If other props can adapt then so can Adam. Besides his overall game, defence, ball carrying, cleaning out etc should be more important that being able to milk a penalty from a scrum. All he needs to do is maintain parity there. Better fitness / conditioning would assist his overall game. On the weekend he was fine in the scrums but well behind the pace of the game outside the scrum.

Adapt to what?  My point is that Adam's strength/advantage was a particular set of skills.  New rules kinda dampen them so what does he adapt to?  He's 33.  He can't adapt to being young again. So he'll adapt to just another Prop?  There are always younger ones of those and as you say, faster, fitter ones.

When the laws came out it was thought that as SA relied on the hit and their greater natural strength that their scrum would struggle with the new laws. SA technically were not a great strumming team and relied on strength/advantage. To improve the Boks now have Pieter de Villiers as a full time scrum coach, have adapted, still have a strength advantage and the scrum has been better than ever. The scrum is still a part of the game for old heads full of tricks etc.

Well... there you go. Boks have already adapted.

I do think, if Jones is overlooked for selection for the next game, that really is Gatland calling time on Jones' career and projecting into the future with a 'nothing to lose' attitude.

SecretFly wrote:

MMaaxx wrote:If other props can adapt then so can Adam. Besides his overall game, defence, ball carrying, cleaning out etc should be more important that being able to milk a penalty from a scrum. All he needs to do is maintain parity there. Better fitness / conditioning would assist his overall game. On the weekend he was fine in the scrums but well behind the pace of the game outside the scrum.

Adapt to what?  My point is that Adam's strength/advantage was a particular set of skills.  New rules kinda dampen them so what does he adapt to?  He's 33.  He can't adapt to being young again.  So he'll adapt to just another Prop?  There are always younger ones of those and as you say, faster, fitter ones.

There's a particular class of tighthead who've struggled a lot with the new engagement laws. Generally, they're the big guys who were geared towards a power hit rather than an ongoing drive. Adam is one, I believe Dan Cole may be another (though his neck injury is undoubtedly a factor and we will have to see what shape he's in when he returns), Saracens have spent a lot of this season reshaping James Johnston - by the looks of things to improve his aerobic fitness and core/upper body strength.

It didn't surprise me that Kyle Sinckler has had a big impact this season despite his inexperience - I think his body shape and fitness are pretty much the template for what a TH needs to be (shorter than the previous generation, huge upper body strength but comparatively low body fat and good aerobic fitness). A lot of players who were very effective under the old engagement rules need to adapt to this, not just in terms of skills but also physique and fitness - but given his age, does Adam have enough time to do that?

[quote="MMaaxx"]Jones' issue is clearly fitness. A good break and a dedicated unique fitness regime would make all the difference. No reason why he cannot make the next RWC especially as the alternatives are nothing special.

Lee will be special and I think we should now give him the AIs and 6 Nations as our No1 and let him develop nicely for the WC. After him then I would still have Adam as backup , Rh Jones hasn't done bad for Wales but like Adam he isn't first choice so that will affect gametime/fitness.

After them two well not sure really, Mitchell never impressed me, seems injury prone and a bit of a liability discipline wise.