Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread IV

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Historical Banter:

https://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
https://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
https://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii

A new thread for the 2014/5 season.

A. Edinburgh Rugby


1. Coaching Team

Alan Solomons - head coach
Stevie Scott -  assistant coach
Omar Mouneimne - assistant coach

2. Players In

Neil Cochrane from London Wasps
John Andress from Worcester Warriors
Rory Sutherland from Gala RFC
Tom Heathcote from Bath Rugby
Michael Tait from Newcastle Falcons
Fraser McKenzie from Newcastle Falcons
Phil Burleigh from the Highlanders
Anton Bresler from the Sharks
Brett Thompson from USA 7s

3. Players Out

Steven Lawrie retired
Alun Walker released
Alex Allan to Glasgow Warriors
Geoff Cross to London Irish
Lewis Niven released
Sean Cox to London Irish
Robert McAlpine released
Perry Parker to Rotherham Titans
Izak van der Westhuizen released
Ross Rennie to Bristol Rugby
Dimitri Basilaia released
Alex Black released
Greig Laidlaw to Gloucester Rugby
Chris Leck released
Piers Francis released
Gregor Hunter released
Harry Leonard to Leeds Carnegie
Ben Atiga retired
Ben Cairns retired
Nick De Luca to Biarritz Olympique
Lee Jones released
Aleki Lutui to Gloucester Rugby

4. Pre-season Fixtures

Leicester Tigers v Edinburgh
Saturday 23 August, 14:00
Welford Road

Edinburgh v Newcastle Falcons
Friday 29 August, 19:45
Mansfield Park, Hawick

B. Glasgow Warriors


1. Coaching Team

Gregor Townsend – Head Coach
Shade Munro – Forwards Coach
Matt Taylor – Defence Coach

2. Players In

Alex Allan from Edinburgh
Murray McConnell from Ayr RFC
Euan Murray from Worcester Warriors
James Downey from Munster
Rossouw de Klerk from the Cheetahs

3. Players Out

Moray Low to Exeter Chiefs
Chris Cusiter to Sale Sharks
Ruaridh Jackson to London Wasps
Ed Kalman retired
Byron McGuigan released
Finlay Gillies released
Scott Wight to Melrose RFC
Gabriel Ascárate released
Folau Niua released
Carlin Isles to USA 7s

4. Pre-season Fixtures

Glasgow Warriors v Harlequins
Saturday 23 August, 14:30
Scotstoun Stadium

London Scottish v Glasgow Warriors
Saturday 30 August, 15:00
Richmond Athletic Ground

[BigGee]

I don't think any loaning of players is going to go on at this stage of the season, nor should it.

It is all very well doing it when it has been decided (rightly or wrongly) that a player is surplus to requirements or if there is an absolute hole in an essential position. That was the case when Kennedy went over to Glasgow. Firstly at that point he was no where near getting a game for Edinburgh and there was no one else fit at Glasgow. The fact that he took his chance well suggests that Edinburgh should have had a closer look at him in the first place.

Both coaches really should be at the stage of checking out their squads at the moment and trying to work out if some players have what it takes.Sending young players off to other clubs only makes any sense if they are going to get some game there. Hislop going to Rotherham for example, a good move for him that will see him develop. He may well come back at some stage a much more complete and better player. If any of the Glasgow youngsters come over, in a couple of weeks time, when the senior players return, they will just fade into the background there. They are much better staying put and fighting for their places in their own clubs.

Edinburgh's injury situation is not long term, we have been told that most will be back playing quite soon. Just look upon this as a chance for some other players to stake their case. You may end up with a far more balanced squad because of this.

[RDW]

Edinburgh's injury situation is not long term, we have been told that most will be back playing quite soon. Just look upon this as a chance for some other players to stake their case. You may end up with a far more balanced squad because of this.

I wasn't meaning to moan about it, was more saying that we don't really have the selection dilemmas for the pre-season games and early GP games as we don't have many options available in some positions!

[RDW]

Edinburgh team announced:

15 Jack Cuthbert
14 Dougie Fife
13 Sam Beard
12 Andries Strauss
11 Tim Visser
10 Greig Tonks
9 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne

1 Rory Sutherland
2 Ross Ford CAPTAIN
3 John Andress
4 Fraser McKenzie
5 Ollie Atkins
6 Tomas Leonardi
7 Hamish Watson
8 Cornell Du Preez

Substitutes
16 James Hilterbrand
17 Alasdair Dickinson
18 Simon Berghan
19 Ben Toolis
20 Alex Toolis
21 Jamie Ritchie
22 Sean Kennedy
23 Grayson Hart
24 Tom Heathcote
25 Phil Burleigh
26 Joaquin Dominguez
27 Nick McLennan

Leonardi being back helps our problems a lot, and good to see Cuthbert and Dickinson returning. I thought they were out longer.

Pleased for S-H-C starting too - a real good chance for him to stake his claim.

Hurly Burleigh on the bench!

[funnyExiledScot]

Edinburgh's injury situation is not long term, we have been told that most will be back playing quite soon. Just look upon this as a chance for some other players to stake their case. You may end up with a far more balanced squad because of this.

I'm more than happy for Ritchie to start, as I said above, but what I don't think helps anyone is shoe horning a lock into the 6 jersey. Fraser McKenzie will never be an international 6, nor even a top class club 6. What's the point, when you could give Ritchie or Ashe a few games at the start of the season until Coman, Leonardi, Grant and Denton return?

Playing McKenzie at 6 strikes me as an opportunity lost, the only upside being that one of the Toolis brothers gets a start at lock.

[funnyExiledScot]

Oh well - Leonardi is back, so it's a moot point really.

Like the team, and am particularly pleased that Sutherland is getting another shot to prove himself. If he can play the first few games of the season it would be invaluable experience for him, and allow Dickinson to ease his way back. Dickinson could well be going to the World Cup, so I don't want him rushed back.

Hidalgo-Clyne starting is also pleasing. He deserves a run in my view. Kennedy is promising but I think Hidalgo-Clyne will go onto become an international player. Looks like Tonks is getting a run as well, which is also excellent.

On the downside we have Strauss and Beard at centre. I've got some time for Beard and he doesn't seem to have something about him. He runs smart lines and doesn't just look for contact, but I've yet to see Strauss do anything constructive on a rugby field, and his lack of pace is alarming. I assume Chris Dean is injured just looking at the bench.

[RDW]

Aye Chris Dean and Roddy Grant are injured.

I'm glad Leonardi is back, as I've always been impressed when he's played - he's just not had that many chances.

He's in the Du Preez mould - very physical and uncompromising. In Solomons' interview for the team announcement he says he has come back in great shape, which is promising.

He also says he's going to treat this more as a proper game, only using subs tactically. Seems strange given he has listed 12 subs...

[VinceWLB]

Strong team out, i will be disappointed with anything other than a win.

Particularly love the look of that back row mixing power and physicality of Leonardi and Du Preez very well with Watson's speed and flair. For what its worth Watson could be a new injury free version of Rennie, that's how much i rate him.

This centre partnership isn't going to threaten The Falcons defense much but if they can just give the ball to Fife and Visser it should be good enough.

[IanBru]

Good afternoon m'hearties, hope you're all over the mid-week hump and weaving your way to weekend bliss.

In a rash moment of altruistic social responsibility, I was volunteered by my sister to run the Great North Run on 7 September, in aid of the NSPCC.

While my knees currently feel like Zebre's title hopes and my lungs hurt more than Roddy Grant after a Fusaro-shaming, my training is going surprisingly well. I can tie my running shoes now. Result.

If you'd like to donate some of your hard-earned, I would be extremely grateful, and you'll have done something truly wonderful!
https://www.justgiving.com/TheFamilyMac

[Geordie]

Falcons Team v Edinburgh

1 Vickers
2 McGuigan
3 Tomaszczyk
4 Green
5 Barrow
6 Wilson
7 Welch
8 Hogg

9 Blair
10 Socino
11 Catterick
12 Powell
13 Barnes
14 Cato
15 Hammersley

Replacements: Eric Fry, Scott Lawson, Scott Wilson, Josh Furno, Richard Mayhew, Andy Saull, Ruki Tipuna, Phil Godman, Jamie Helleur, Alex Tuilagi, Andy Tuilagi.

[George Carlin]

Falcons Team v Edinburgh

1 Vickers
2 McGuigan
3 Tomaszczyk
4 Green
5 Barrow
6 Wilson
7 Welch
8 Hogg

9 Blair
10 Socino
11 Catterick
12 Powell
13 Barnes
14 Cato
15 Hammersley

Replacements: Eric Fry, Scott Lawson, Scott Wilson, Josh Furno, Richard Mayhew, Andy Saull, Ruki Tipuna, Phil Godman, Jamie Helleur, Alex Tuilagi, Andy Tuilagi.

Hogg and Blair playing against Edinburgh. Oh, how strange.

If there's a god in heaven, we'll see Godman on the pitch for Du Preez to throw around like a dog's chew toy. I would laugh until I hurled.

[funnyExiledScot]

Andy Saull?? That guy was tipped to become the player Neil Back wished he was. How the mighty fall.

After last weekend I'm quite confident going into this fixture. Should be a decent contest.

[Geordie]

THe only thing positive i can think of is that half that team dont deserve to be there after last weekends shambolics....so they might actually have some desire to play properly.

Godawful should not be at the club...he's not even an English Championship standard player.

Saull is gash...and his place is under serious threat from a young kiwi 7 we have called Dan Temm who looks...well like a traditional kiwi 7 and looks top bo$*cks.

[RDW]

What happened last week??

(good)Godman has 23 caps don't you know...

[Geordie]

We put out two sides one at home v Rotherham and one v Doncaster.

THe sides were split with Seniors and academy players...we got beat off Rotherham and royally humped of Doncaster.

I havnt seen the Doncaster report but i was at the Rotherham game and we were worryingly poor,...specifically at the breakdown and the ruck / fringe defence.

Even the likes the Keiron Brookes looked like they were still on holiday.

Obviously i looking for a huge improvement.

[RDW]

Are Hogg and Blair still doing the business for you guys? They are getting on a bit now (particularly Blair).

I wouldn't have thought his style of game would be overly suited for the AP. I think he's been a fantastic player though.

[Geordie]

Hogg is doing ok yeah, and Blair actually is aswell..

Its 10 spot thats a worry though. Clegg and Good Goodman are poor, not premiership standard. Socino who has just come in was the only stand out last weekend (alongside Sinoti) but he is a cannonball type of 12...who can cover 10. It loks like they want him to play 10 though...will be interested to hear from you guys how he goes in that position v your guys.

[RDW]

The game isn't televised but there will be highlights apparently. Is anyone on here going?

Also, why is Newcastle's home friendly been moved to Hawick??

[RDW]

Good afternoon m'hearties, hope you're all over the mid-week hump and weaving your way to weekend bliss.

In a rash moment of altruistic social responsibility, I was volunteered by my sister to run the Great North Run on 7 September, in aid of the NSPCC.

While my knees currently feel like Zebre's title hopes and my lungs hurt more than Roddy Grant after a Fusaro-shaming, my training is going surprisingly well. I can tie my running shoes now. Result.

If you'd like to donate some of your hard-earned, I would be extremely grateful, and you'll have done something truly wonderful!
https://www.justgiving.com/TheFamilyMac

Done!



Which emoticon will describe your efforts do you think?

, or ?

Where's GC's flogging a dead horse emoticon when you most need it...

[Geordie]

The game isn't televised but there will be highlights apparently. Is anyone on here going?

Also, why is Newcastle's home friendly been moved to Hawick??

They did it last season aswell...just seems to be something they have started doing...keeping our Scottish relationship going....for the time being.

[George Carlin]

Good afternoon m'hearties, hope you're all over the mid-week hump and weaving your way to weekend bliss.

In a rash moment of altruistic social responsibility, I was volunteered by my sister to run the Great North Run on 7 September, in aid of the NSPCC.

While my knees currently feel like Zebre's title hopes and my lungs hurt more than Roddy Grant after a Fusaro-shaming, my training is going surprisingly well. I can tie my running shoes now. Result.

If you'd like to donate some of your hard-earned, I would be extremely grateful, and you'll have done something truly wonderful!
https://www.justgiving.com/TheFamilyMac

Done!



Which emoticon will describe your efforts do you think?


Where's GC's flogging a dead horse emoticon when you most need it...

[RDW]

That's the one!

[IanBru]

Thanks so much to FES, RDW and ASBO!

RDW, I'll start out like , get passed after 50 meters by Kenenisa Bekele , get passed after three miles by a member of One Direction , start to stagger after 6 miles , drop back into the women's group , and run the last three miles like I'm playing for the BaaBaas .

[funnyExiledScot]

It's when the guy in the Darth Vader outfit races past you that you have to worry!

If in doubt just do what Ben Atiga would do. Sit down, eat a pie and let the world go by.

[RDW]

I see that Simon Taylor has finally returned to Edinburgh - huzzah!

Unfortunately it is just for Watsonians.... boo!

I did wonder why my girlfriend randomly asked if we could go watch some Watsonians games this season...

To be fair at 35 and the injury career he's had I'm not surprised he's made the step down.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Good luck Bru. You better not be wearing an Archie MacPherson t shirt to run in ! Although if the No campaign have to use that embarrassing old to$$er they have got problems !

[IanBru]

No Schiz, I'll be running dressed as Arthur Scargill - I hear he's rather popular in the north east.

[funnyExiledScot]

Surely as a Glasgow man the appropriate costume would be to go dressed as Paul Gascoigne - the North East's favourite son.

All you need is a Rangers top (I have several I can lend), a tin of Special Bru or perhaps more aptly "wife beater", the ability to cry on demand, a dentists coat (for the dentists chair celebrations at the end), a "Raul Moat" commemoration tazer gun and of course a flute.

It'll go down really well. Trust me.

[Geordie]

a "Raul Moat" commemoration tazer gun

Well as the joke was that he turned up to see Raul with a bucket of KFC and a fishing rod...that might be more recognisable.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Edinburgh team looks quite capable. It'll be weird having Blair and Hogg against Edinburgh.

Seemingly Blair still has it according to Geordie.

Mind you is it really a surprise that Good Godman isn't cutting the mustard in the Premiership?

[funnyExiledScot]

a "Raul Moat" commemoration tazer gun

Well as the joke was that he turned up to see Raul with a bucket of KFC and a fishing rod...that might be more recognisable.

That's awesome. There is little you can't achieve with a bucket of chicken and a fishing rod.

[IanBru]

a "Raul Moat" commemoration tazer gun

Well as the joke was that he turned up to see Raul with a bucket of KFC and a fishing rod...that might be more recognisable.

That's awesome. "There is little you can't achieve with a bucket of chicken and a fishing rod".

I think the saying goes:
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.
Give a man a fishing rod and you feed him for a lifetime.
Give a man a KFC Mega Bucket and he can play centre for Edinburgh.
Give a man a KFC Mega Bucket and a fishing rod and he can play football for England.

[jimbopip]

Bru

Glasgow Warriors team to play London Scottish, Richmond Athletic Ground, Saturday 30 August (kick-off 3pm) - live on www.dailyrecord.co.uk:

15. Peter Murchie
14. Tommy Seymour
13. Mark Bennett
12. Alex Dunbar
11. Lee Jones
10. Duncan Weir
9. Henry Pyrgos (Captain)

1. Gordon Reid
2. Kevin Bryce
3. Rossouw de Klerk
4. Tim Swinson
5. Leone Nakarawa
6. Tyrone Holmes
7. Chris Fusaro
8. Adam Ashe

Replacements

Fraser Brown
Jerry Yanuyanutawa
Alex Allan
George Hunter
James Eddie
Will Bordill
Josh Strauss
Niko Matawalu
Connor Braid
James Downey
Rory Hughes

A very interesting selection. Does this mean that Finn Russell is not in contention for the Ladyboys match? Also Murchie, Pixieboy and starting again would seem to suggest that they'll start next week. Meatball is the only 10and there is no Mr AP. Naka starts again in the boiler room so will it be him and young Jonnie against the Ladyboys?
I just get the feeling that Meatball is being given the chance to play himself into the jersey but could easily put himself behind Russell and Horne if he doesn't kick better from hand and attempt fewer "killer" passes than he did last week. Also Sherlock Holmes starts again: he did put in some crunching tackles last week. We do have some real strength in depth, looking like being a good season.

[funnyExiledScot]

Strong team. Looks like Weir is starting the season as first choice, and pleasing to see Bryce getting an opportunity, with Brown on the bench. From a Scotland perspective it would be great if Glasgow really focused on those two this season.

Dunbar and Bennett together in the centres. I suspect that'll be the Scotland pairing in the AIs.

[RDW]

Bit of a lightweight backrow - Glasgow following Edinburgh down the two 7s route

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Holmes and Ashe hardly lightweight but see your point. Holmes is an animal on the field and allied with Fozzy's aggression could be a dynamite pairing.

[jimbopip]

RDW, not sure about the lightweight back row, or the two sevens either.
Holmes does not really convince me as a specialist 7. He looks to me more like your Kellybrows flanker rather than a John Barclay out and out 7. However, he does seen to be developing into very good squad player and did not look out of place against Harlequins.
Similarly, Arthur Ashe may not be as big as Seamus Downey but he didn't get bullied by Nick Easter. In fact when I stopped marvelling at the pacey off-loading game I remembered that Quins had put out a very big, heavy and mainly first choice pack and my main cause for concern was that we would get flattened up front. We didn't and in the second half had their scrum in real trouble at times.
I have two concerns about Saturday: we will win easily and everyone will look good - so what do we learn from that, Horne Furra and DTH will be going into the Ladyboys game with only 40 minutes under their belts. Mind you , they both looked very sharp.

[funnyExiledScot]

My only real concern for Glasgow is fly half. I'm just not convinced by Weir at the moment, and I think he really needs to step up his form at the start of this season to convince me he isn't the weak link in an otherwise very strong Glasgow XV. His kicking radar seems to be all over the place these days - I've seem him pump the ball out on the full numerous times, and it's costing his team territory and possession, and as RDW observed, he's got to stop crabbing sideways. He's taking space away from his backline who are all far more talented with ball in hand than he is. Weir is at his best when he's decisive and direct. I'd like to see him flatter and willing to offer more of a threat with ball in hand. He's becoming too predictable.

I assume Finn Russell is out injured, but several fans observed that Peter Horne was the better performer last weekend at 10, and worth remembering Horne is more of a 12. A specialist 10 really ought to be significantly more convincing than a 12 simply filling in.

[RDW]

Tyrone Holmes - 6ft1, 16st

Chris Fusaro - 5ft 11 ( in high heels), 15 st

Adam Ashe - 6ft 4, 16.5st

I'll say it again - that is a lightweight back row!

Yes they are all aggressive players, but there are times when you need the bulk too.

I suspect it won't be a problem against LS though.

If Holmes isn't a 7 then at 6ft 1 and 16st he's a pretty small 6!

[RDW]

Talking of lightweight back rows, Du Preez has pulled out for Edinburgh so has been replaced by 6ft 4, 16 stone 18 year old Jamie Ritchie who moves to 6, with Leonardi moved to 8.

Magnus Bradbury (who is apparently 6ft 4 and 17.5 st!!) is on the bench.

[funnyExiledScot]

Kelly Brown is 6ft 4 and 17st 3 and Scott Johnson thinks he's more of a 7 than a 6 - that tells you something.
Strokosch is 6ft 3 and 17st 5.
Lydiate is 6ft 4 and 17st 9.
Wood is 6ft 4 and 17st 11.
Alberts is 6ft 4 and 18st 13(!).
O'Mahony is 6ft 3 and 17st.

These guys are proper 6s. 6ft 1 and 16st is an openside.

[EWT Spoons]

Seems to be a love of 6ft 4 players.

Wonder if this is genuine or if some rounding up is going on.  Or a poor copy & paste job when updating their official stats.

EDIT - Just to be clear I was talking about the SRU and the young players Ashe, Bradbury & Ritchie, not suggesting that RDW is rounding/making up or hopeless at copying and pasting.

[funnyExiledScot]

That Du Preez withdrawal is alarming. We really are down to the bare bones now in the back row, with Watson really the only fit player who is actually playing in the right position and a potential contender for the 1st XV.

Still, huge opportunity this for Ritchie to make an impression on Solomons.

[jimbopip]

Lightweight ?  As has been said on these boards before: you can prove anything with facts, RDW.
Though I am tending to agree with FES, Meatball isn't just the least convincing of the Warriors backs but doesn't look near international standard at the moment. I think Horne can play 12 but has he got enough time between now and the World Cup to fit into the Scotland set up?
9-10 is Glasgow's weakest area for me as Mad Man Mata is, well Mad Man Mata and no-one is really nailing down the 10 jersey except possibly Russell and he makes look geriatric and oozing experience. Without meaning to upset my friends from the east I don't see the solutions to Scotlands half back dilemma coming from there either.

p.s. Fozzie...high heels...when did he play for the MFL then?

[funnyExiledScot]

Provided Solomons gives them a chance I'm optimistic about Hidalgo-Clyne and Tonks, and Kennedy/Hart and Heathcote is decent back-up. All SQ.

Cusiter and Laidlaw will get the chance to impress in the Aviva, as will Jackson at Wasps.

Glasgow look like having Pyrgos and Weir as first choice and obviously Finn Russell and potentially Peter Horne (who could make the WC squad as a utility back) is another option.

What is encouraging is that there should be lots of potential options playing regular pro rugby. More than I can remember. They key will be whether players can hit form and really put their hands up. There isn't an established half back pairing so Cotter should look closely at the form of the various players and just pick on that basis. That will give us the best chance in my view.

[RDW]

Lightweight ?  As has been said on these boards before: you can prove anything with facts, RDW.

I've missed the point here - are you still disputing that is a lightweight backrow?

If so I'd hate to see a lightweight backrow if two flankers around 6ft and a number 8 at 16.5st don't class as one...

If not then I've misunderstood what you were saying!

[VinceWLB]

Any back row combination with Fusaro in it could be described as lightweight, there is a lot of backs and even scrumhalves who are bigger than him!

Though i like very much the look of Holmes, very abrasive but more of a 7.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Lighweight or not Chris Fusaro has more spirit, ability and aggression than any other 7 in Scotland. Who can forget his stand- up fight v the much more heavyweight and taller Scott McLeod v the MFLs a few seasons ago.

[EST]

I would agree with Jimbo, the 9/10 axis for Glasgow is certainly the weak link this season.

Weir has seemed to pick up injuries regularly, not affording him any regular game time and his performances on the comeback trail have been patchy at best. My hope is that Russell continues his upwards trajectory and nails the 10 spot (hopefully the conditioning team have worked their magic as well), as FeS points out, from a Scottish perspective the 10 spot is very much up for grabs.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

EST,

yes Were broke his leg playing v Ospreys the season before last but other than that no injuries - admittedly a fairly serious one. Regularly injured is not something you can apply to DW.

[EST]

Cheers for the clarification Schiz.

From memory he was the starting 10 for most Lineen's last season 2010/2011 (?) season and since then he and the Rhubarb have been used interchangeably, depending on Tonnies selection tombola and fitness. For me, for whatever reason, he hasn't developed much since then and if anything his kicking game may have even deteriorated? Hopefully he can push on this year and he and Russell can drive each other forward.

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