Fiji Based Pacfic Islands Team to begin

It appears that Fiji / Pacific Islands will have a Rugby League Club side in the second tier of the NRL from 2016.

http://www.totalrl.com/fiji-set-second-tier-nrl-team/

Could this potentially affect the Fijians coming through to Rugby Union? If there is more money in a local League side and a Fiji based Club?

This combined with the plan to set up a Francophone academy there will surely mean fewer players representing Fiji. The NRL has done what arguably super rugby should have done a while ago, a good move by them.

Bathman_in_London wrote:This combined with the plan to set up a Francophone academy there will surely mean fewer players representing Fiji. The NRL has done what arguably super rugby should have done a while ago, a good move by them.

Are you really slating super rugby for not being inclusive with whats going on in Europe right now?

If a Fijian club succeeds in the NRL and then league takes a stronger foothold and dominates then well we have noone to blame but ourselves, for years the PI's have been used as nurseries, and noone has helped them take the next step, who are we to complain now they take a shot at rugby league with both hands.

I for one hope it works and flourishes, and that maybe other top tier nations take on board what could happen to the global game if we don't stop acting for financial reasons over the good of the game.

Er no.

I completely agree with you. My point being that Fiji/PI's have needed something like this for a while and the fact that super rugby (or indeed anyone else, but they are closest) haven't set up shop there has left which a void which the NRL is now going to fill. Good luck to them and I hope as you say this pushes the IRB into action.

The France thing is just an aside really, but I can't believe they would set up an academy there if there was already a super rugby team mopping up the youngsters.

Only issue with a super rugby franchise is where would these talented lads be funnelled?

It will be interesting on how the NRL team goes, and where players who excell end up.

Well i would imagine they'll end poaching the best for Australia then letting the rest play for Fiji etc.

Once they get them playing State of Origin...they're Australian.

There should have been a Pacific Islands Super 15/18 team created based in a suitable site in Oz or NZ, with the Island club sides feeding in to it, and this in turn feeding the PI national teams...with OZ or NZ not allowed any access to the players.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well i would imagine they'll end poaching the best for Australia then letting the rest play for Fiji etc.

Once they get them playing State of Origin...they're Australian.

There should have been a Pacific Islands Super 15/18 team created based in a suitable site in Oz or NZ, with the Island club sides feeding in to it, and this in turn feeding the PI national teams...with OZ or NZ not allowed any access to the players.

Nearly wet myself laughing when reading...

Guys, let’s get our facts straight.  This is NOT an NRL team, they are looking to play in the second tier comp the NSW Cup.  If odds were given on an NRL side being set up in Fiji, they’d be so remote you wouldn’t even bother.  It will never happen.  Why?  Because a) there is a massive queue of better, more prepared and viable candidates (Brisbane 2nd team, PNG, Central NSW Coast, Wellington) who have been waiting a while for the next round of expansion and b) the NRL needs to tackle the threat from AFL in Greater Western Sydney, Gold Coast and Canberra where it currently has teams.  Expansion to an area which is not going to generate income through TV deals (sound familiar?) or be self-sustainable is just a non-starter.

I don’t think this Fiji team is sustainable long term either….PNG used to play in the Qld Cup where RL is their national sport and even that fell over.

Neutralee wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well i would imagine they'll end poaching the best for Australia then letting the rest play for Fiji etc.

Once they get them playing State of Origin...they're Australian.

There should have been a Pacific Islands Super 15/18 team created based in a suitable site in Oz or NZ, with the Island club sides feeding in to it, and this in turn feeding the PI national teams...with OZ or NZ not allowed any access to the players.

Nearly wet myself laughing when reading...

Why so?

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well i would imagine they'll end poaching the best for Australia then letting the rest play for Fiji etc.

Once they get them playing State of Origin...they're Australian.

There should have been a Pacific Islands Super 15/18 team created based in a suitable site in Oz or NZ, with the Island club sides feeding in to it, and this in turn feeding the PI national teams...with OZ or NZ not allowed any access to the players.

Nearly wet myself laughing when reading...

Why so?

The idea of a top tier nation such as the Super franchisee's would do anything of benefit for the global game, without reaping huge rewards in return!

Big difference between RL and RU is RL has no money at the international level. State of Origin and NRL is essentially the highest level of play to aspire to play wise and money wise.

Good idea Falcon, but to be fair if the country hosting the team of PIs is not allowed access to those players should those players not be allowed to be from that country? eg no NZ born PIs would be allowed to play for that PI team if it were based in NZ. Given that some of those PI may not be citizens of residents of a PI but only of NZ and so therefore may be not eligible to represent that country.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well i would imagine they'll end poaching the best for Australia then letting the rest play for Fiji etc.

Once they get them playing State of Origin...they're Australian.

There should have been a Pacific Islands Super 15/18 team created based in a suitable site in Oz or NZ, with the Island club sides feeding in to it, and this in turn feeding the PI national teams...with OZ or NZ not allowed any access to the players.

Nearly wet myself laughing when reading...

Why so?

Coupla things Geordie:

To play State of O, not only do you have to be already able to play for Australia, you also have to committ that you will only play for Australia.

You last paragraph reminded me of a small rugby club outside of Kaitaia (think its Ahipara), which is in the Northland rugby union. which in turn plays in the ITM cup. there have been many Fijian players that over the years have played for up there and then gone on to play at first class level, one that springs to mind goes by the name of Rupene.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Neutralee wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well i would imagine they'll end poaching the best for Australia then letting the rest play for Fiji etc.

Once they get them playing State of Origin...they're Australian.

There should have been a Pacific Islands Super 15/18 team created based in a suitable site in Oz or NZ, with the Island club sides feeding in to it, and this in turn feeding the PI national teams...with OZ or NZ not allowed any access to the players.

Nearly wet myself laughing when reading...

Why so?

Coupla things Geordie:

To play State of O, not only do you have to be already able to play for Australia, you also have to committ that you will only play for Australia.

You last paragraph reminded me of  a small  rugby club outside of Kaitaia (think its Ahipara), which is in the Northland rugby union. which in turn plays in the ITM cup. there have been many Fijian players that over the years have played for up there and then gone on to play at first class level, one that springs to mind goes by the name of Rupene.

It would be Awanui you are thinking about as Ahipara goes by the name of Te Rarawa. Being an Eastern United (Taipa) fan for many years I know these things.

I am glad Fije / PI's are doing this and why would they have to play in NZ or Australia? They could play in Fiji. Any PI's born in NZ would be entitled to citizenship of their own country through relations.

Yes, Rainbow youre quite right, the club I was thinking of is Awanui.

Just a couple of pointers re: Fiji and league.

based on my understanding:
1) the current team will play in the NSW cup. This is a level below the NRL with teams generally feeding into aligned NRL clubs.
2) PNG has a team in the Queensland equivalent (the Queensland Cup). They are now based in Queensland. I think this may be the ultimate model.
3) The current model with a training base in Suva is possible because of government and commercial sponsors.
4) League in Fiji is relatively young. The big break came when much of the 7's team switched to league in the early 90's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reUAyTmeTUQ).
5) It's just another competition for Fijian talent. Players do go to NZ and Australia to school on scholarships. An increasing number have been targeted at a young age by French clubs.
6) I suspect that League is looking at having to increase it's saleability (i.e. including talent) to face the incursion of Australian rules and Football into it's traditional heartland). It's pretty clear that 9's is being seen as a way of spreading the game (which hasn't expanded in 100 years). This would certainly help that.
6) I suspect this is more about one or several league clubs working on how to best to capitalize on a flow of Fijian talent.

A couple of other additions:

1) Queensland is currently shopping in Fiji (http://www.espnscrum.com/super-rugby-2014/rugby/story/236593.html)

2) Here Ben Ryans take on the problem of lack of funding, loss of players, opportunities etc (http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/236379.html).

3) Here's a link to scholarships and some Fijians playing junior rugby in NZ (http://blog.skysport.co.nz/collegerugby/when-sam-meet-suli/)

4) Although I've noted Fijians do move to NZ and Australia and I'd rather someone like Sivivatu played for Fiji the issue is complex. We're still in a position where more Kiwis have played for Fiji than Fijians have played for the AB's, with many of the later being pivotal to the performance of the National side. The reality is the that hardly any Fijians coming to NZ on scholarships end up playing for the AB's (Sivivatu comes to mind).

4) The movement to league is there. This is Suniasi Vunivalu a Fijian kid who played for St Kentigans last year (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbgpe50p9ls). Had huge potential but was picked up by Melbourne Storm.

I can't see this having much of an impact to be honest. the best Fijian players are already given placements at New Zealand academies and schools anyway

4) Although I've noted Fijians do move to NZ and Australia and I'd rather someone like Sivivatu played for Fiji the issue is complex. We're still in a position where more Kiwis have played for Fiji than Fijians have played for the AB's, with many of the later being pivotal to the performance of the National side. The reality is the that hardly any Fijians coming to NZ on scholarships end up playing for the AB's (Sivivatu comes to mind).

No offence but I thoroughly hate that defence!!! Claiming more kiwis have represented Fiji than Fijians NZ is so crass! The reality is PI talent that does represent NZ is world class, NZ get the pick of the litter, and whats left over is allowed to be selected. Kiwi's representing Fiji are already failures, and very few turn out to be too high a quality!

Shifty wrote:I can't see this having much of an impact to be honest.  the best Fijian players are already given placements at New Zealand academies and schools anyway

You may not realise it but young players come from all over the World to attend Rugby academies in New Zealand and then return to their country.

Schools (plural)? I think you mean one school as in Saint Kentigerns, which by chance happens to be mentioned in another post, the one immediately before yours.

Neutralee wrote:4) Although I've noted Fijians do move to NZ and Australia and I'd rather someone like Sivivatu played for Fiji the issue is complex. We're still in a position where more Kiwis have played for Fiji than Fijians have played for the AB's, with many of the later being pivotal to the performance of the National side. The reality is the that hardly any Fijians coming to NZ on scholarships end up playing for the AB's (Sivivatu comes to mind).

No offence but I thoroughly hate that defence!!! Claiming more kiwis have represented Fiji than Fijians NZ is so crass! The reality is PI talent that does represent NZ is world class, NZ get the pick of the litter, and whats left over is allowed to be selected. Kiwi's representing Fiji are already failures, and very few turn out to be too high a quality!

I've said it a number of times. I agree with the stance on Sivivatu, grew up in Fiji came to NZ on a scholarship should have played for Fiji. However, I think the NZ poaching issue always tends to get overstated. Lets look at the facts:

1 player was born and raised in Fiji has moved to NZ and played for the All Blacks in the professional era. Sivivatu came here on a school scholarship.
1 player was born and raised in Fiji moved to NZ in the Amateur era and went on to play for the All Blacks. Joeli Videri came to NZ in the early 90's and went on to lay for NZ after the game went professional.
6 players were were born in Fiji but raised in New Zealand (David Solomon, Ronald Williams, Arthur Jennings, Bernie Frazer, Tabai Matson and Joe Rokocoko. All moved to NZ as young children, all arrived in the amateur era and I'm confident only one was a full Fijian by parentage.
There are a small number of All blacks who have Fijian heritage and could have played for Fiji (e.g. Walter Little).
In terms of players born in NZ or growing up there more go to play for Fiji than the reverse. This is particularly true in the professional era. These include many of Fiji's key players.
The reality is a player born and growing up in Fiji is as more likely to end up playing for France, Australia or England than New Zealand. If they do move to NZ on a school scholarship they are at least as, or more likely to, play for Australia or rugby league as they are to play for the All Blacks.