Fiji, Pacific Islands and unscrupulous agents

Interesting article in the Telegraph today about the continual exploitation of Pacific Island rugby players. Inevitable but sad and I hope some sort of accreditation for agents comes in. I cannot believe Brive actually have an Academy in Fiji. I would like to think that the governing bodies could put something sensible in place to ensure the worst clubs and agents are punished. It is also amazing that these small islands produce so many awesome players.

Rugby uncovered: 'Despicable’ abuse of young Pacific talent is huge stain on game
Part one of a series which puts rugby under the microscope before the World Cup focuses on a shameful and harrowing tale of exploitation

By Daniel Schofield

Fiji, who take on England in the opening World Cup match on Sept  18, have a long and proud tradition of producing the fastest fliers on the planet. Indeed, they are fast becoming a must-have accessory for every nation.

Other than Fiji, New Zealand (Waisake Naholo), Australia (Henry Speight) and France (Noa Nakaitaci) will field wings born on the Pacific Island in the World Cup. England might call up Semesa Rokoduguni if injury strikes, while Scotland tried to recruit Taqele Naiyaravoro for the next tournament, but lost out to Australia.

They are the success stories. Earning a professional contract and then an international call-up for their adopted nation is a pathway to riches almost unimaginable in Fiji, where the minimum wage is around £1.50 an hour.

Yet for every player from Fiji, Samoa or Tonga who makes a better life for themselves and their families abroad, many more fall by the wayside and find themselves in serious difficulties. Every week, the International Rugby Players’ Association is contacted by a player in need of “desperate assistance” after being cut adrift by their club and abandoned by their agent who promised them the earth.

For every success story such as Fiji-born Waisake Naholo with the All Blacks, there are scores of ruined lives

The Telegraph has been provided with several case studies by the IRPA that highlight this growing trend. In one case, a player did not receive 11 months’ salary, leaving him with no money to buy food, toiletries or even a blanket to sleep under. In another, a former international faced the prospect of a criminal conviction for unpaid taxes for which his previous club were liable; only the intervention of the IRPA saved him. Others have their contracts torn up on the flimsiest of pretexts, often leaving individuals penniless in a foreign country.

This is not a problem exclusively confined to Pacific Island players, but Rob Nichol, the association’s chief executive, confirmed that they were inordinately affected. “The Islanders are being preyed upon, absolutely,” Nichol said. “There are some despicable individuals who capitalise on their desperation to make a better life for themselves and their families.”

Ben Ryan is the coach of the Fiji sevens team and has seen first-hand the deception and duplicity used by unscrupulous agents to lure players abroad. “There are so many flaky agents around,” Ryan says. “Rugby league is doing some disgraceful things in Fiji – sending players one-way tickets to Australia on visas that don’t allow them to play professional sport, so they are immediately breaking the law. Then they outstay their visa, get deported and they are banned from going overseas ever again for work they might have done in the future. That is effectively a life sentence.”

It is easy to see the appeal of the Island players. They are cheap, determined and explosive. In the 2013-14 season, Fijians were the top try-scorers in the three biggest club competitions: the Premiership in England (Vereniki Goneva), the Top 14 in France (Metuisela Talebula) and the southern hemisphere’s Super Rugby (Nemani Nadolo).

The demand is insatiable, the supply seemingly never ending. Nichol calls it a “gold rush” while Ryan likens it to trawler fishing. “Some are doing it the right way and targeting guys who they think will be stars,” Ryan said. “Lots of clubs are purely by numbers. Chuck them all in the same house, pay them €2-300 a month on short-term contracts. In six months’ time, get rid of most of them and leave one. They do that all the time.”

Last week, it was reported that 10 Fijian teenagers aged from 14 to 17 who had taken part in the Deans Trophy, the national schools competition, had signed contracts with teams in France. Many more will follow. Two years ago, the Fiji Under-18 team beat their New Zealand counterparts; now a mere two of the side remain on the island.

Henry Speight is another to flourish

Some headed down the traditional path to New Zealand but many more now are being scooped up by French academies. Regulations in France state that 55   per cent of a Top 14 side must have spent three years in an academy before the age of 21. The rule was designed to promote local talent but has instead accelerated the mass stockpiling of young talent from the Pacific Islands. Brive have even set up their own academy on Fiji.

Whatever you feel about the rights and wrongs of international eligibility, closing the three-year residency rule would be seen as a disaster by most Pacific Islands players. “In Fiji, you have rugby and the army,” Nicky Little, the former Fiji fly-half, said. “If you don’t like fighting then rugby is the only route out for most people. Being able to get a contract abroad represents a huge opportunity.”

That opportunity is twofold. Firstly, to train at facilities and receive coaching that are just not available at home. Tony Thorpe, the Fiji general manager, estimates that there are just three local level-three qualified coaches in Fiji, while full-sized pitches are also a rarity in many areas. More importantly, a professional contract represents the chance to build a better life for themselves and their family.

“I have been to the villages and seen where they live,” Ryan said. “Some of the boys don’t have electricity or running water. As an overseas coach for me to say, ‘You must turn this offer down’ would be ludicrous. The money is such a life-changing amount. The biggest wage we can pay our players is £5,000 a year. So to go from that to €100-200,000 a year is very hard to turn down. You just want them to go to the right club at the right time and be with the right agent.”

The problem is that so many end up with the wrong club, particularly in emerging markets, and the wrong agent. “You hear the good stories but there are plenty more bad ones,” Ryan said. “Agents end up taking so much money that the player ends up with only 20 per cent of his salary.”

It is worth emphasising that many of the problems facing the Pacific Islands could be solved by better governance. World Rugby is proud of its contribution, investing £15 million in the Pacific Islands. “World Rugby is committed to the development, competitiveness and sustainability of rugby in the Pacific Islands and works tirelessly with our unions to achieve that goal,” it said in a statement.

However, frustration is mounting. “Sometimes you deal with an issue and afterwards you think that was a tough issue, but we dealt with it and got to a resolution that suited all parties so it does not happen again,” Nichol said. “What we are dealing with is an issue, resolving it and then getting exactly the same issue straight back on our lap again and again and again.”

Nichol argues that the solution lies in better education and regulation. The former can be achieved through the implementation of a personal development programme similar to those run by player associations in many tier-one countries (the 10 nations in the Six Nations and the Rugby Championship). “If you are signing a professional rugby contract, you need independent, quality advice,” Nichol said. “For a professional rugby player, signing with the wrong agent or the wrong contract can be catastrophic for their careers.”

His second proposal is setting up a global agent-accreditation system to clamp down on the charlatans operating in the Islands. “We have a number of models operating domestically within tier-one unions but nothing covers the game globally around the standards and expectations that people who wish to represent players in contract negotiations need to be bound by,” Nichol said. “The current regulation that World  Rugby has in place is completely insufficient. At the moment, we are allowing the sharks to eat these kids alive.”

For 18 months, a specially adapted player development programme for Pacific Island players has laid dormant in World Rugby’s in-tray. World Rugby claims it is on their agenda for its October meetings. All the while, players continue to be misled and exploited leaving the IRPA to pick up the pieces.

“We have our ideas, I suspect World Rugby have their ideas, but somehow we have to get ourselves in a room and work out how we deal with these problems, because if we don’t they will start to run amok with our game,” Nichol said. “In our view, it is one of the biggest threats to the integrity of the game. If player welfare is truly the No 1 priority for World Rugby then I would have thought this kind of thing needs to be a priority.”

Cases studies shown to Telegraph Sport
Case One

A player signed a “net” contract where the club is responsible for paying his taxes. After his contract was terminated, tax authorities pursued him for two years’ unpaid taxes, non-payment of which would result in a criminal conviction.

Case Two

Player signed for a club but was unaware that it faced monetary and political problems. The club eventually closed down in which period the player was never paid leaving him in serious financial difficulties

Case Three

A player was left without the money to buy necessities such as food and toiletries after only receiving five months’ salary in 17 months. Player had his salary further cut by 10 per cent and 30 per cent. Lost weight without basic nutrition.

Few facts that are worrying...

Over 43% of PI players eligible to play for a PI team plays overseas, with around 12% opting to play for their adopted countries.

over 20% of players at the last RWC were of PI descent. Thats the same as 20% of world class player coming from the same borough of Birmingham, under a million people. how crazy is that?

PI heritage makes up less than 6% of NZ's population, but 35% of their Super rugby squads.

Just under 25% of Australias RWC squad in 2011 were PI eritaged players.

And there were more PI heritaged players on the lions tour in 2013 than Scots...

I'm not saying this is everyones, or anyones fault in particular, but it is up to World Rugby to stop the stem of players being fished from a talent pool with the view of converting them. Brives academy is brash, but the Fijian U18 squad who beat NZ's a few years ago have been ravaged, with just 1 player left on the Island today!!!

My problem is though, many of them are on big salaries with big European clubs.

Why then elect to play for the home nation instead of your home country.

Ie Nathan Hughes is a prime example. He is Fijian and a huge explosive number 8, who is undoubtedly on a very nice contract with Wasps. However instead of taking the nice contract income and playing for Fiji, he has decided to claim the residency years and try to play for England.

Now personally I hope is isn't selected, but the fact he is an amazing player will mean he is. Its a sad state of affairs.

If the residency rules were sorted then I think this whole issue and mess could be fixed.

Hughes may be earning what 200 - 300k per year?

England appearances and possible Lions selection could double that maybe, Fijians are having to cover their own costs to go to camp!

Well then World Rugby need to step in and sort this mess out.

WR cannot sort out the non-existent economy in Fiji. This means talented fijian players will always want to ply their trade overseas. What WR should do is sort out the abuses of players and their contracts. IRPA should take the lead in this and fund legal representation in every single case to hit agents and clubs where it hurts.

Agents. Snake Oil Salesmen

Then you need a system of licensed agents with the license fee contributing towards a fund which can be used to help out the players who have been fecked over

I read about a case where up to 24 PI junior players were given short term contracts in NZ, used for around 10 weeks and then discarded without as much as a return flight home.

I think Ben Ryan mentions similar cases as 'trawl fishing'.

Outside of the abuse though, even the succesfull PI players aren't returning to represent the PI teams, just imagine how strong the 3 would be if they had access to all the talent they produce (Allbeit less polished from top tier club training for a few seasons).

Sounds like you are saying PI players should be prevented from earning a living overseas.

I've always been of the opinion that if you're old enough to sign a professional contract, you are old enough to declare for a nation.

So, genuine dual-registered players can at that point pick a country they'll represent. But if you only qualify for one country, you can only nominate for that country, regardless of where your professional rugby career may take you in the future.

LondonTiger wrote:Sounds like you are saying PI players should be prevented from earning a living overseas.

I think it's more a case of wanting to prevent them being rode overseas.....

LondonTiger wrote:WR cannot sort out the non-existent economy in Fiji. This means talented fijian players will always want to ply their trade overseas. What WR should do is sort out the abuses of players and their contracts. IRPA should take the lead in this and fund legal representation in every single case to hit agents and clubs where it hurts.

At what point did I suggest the could?

What I did say is sort out the residency rules..ie make it harder for the successful ones to just pledge their loyalty to anyone after a measly 3 years.

Make the U18 representation binding to the seniors.

Sort out the agents.
Asist with money getting to the games for Fijians
etc
etc

My replies have not been to you GF.

Fanster wrote:I read about a case where up to 24 PI junior players were given short term contracts in NZ, used for around 10 weeks and then discarded without as much as a return flight home.

Short term contracts where?

Do you have a link?

Fanster wrote:PI heritage makes up less than 6% of NZ's population, but 35% of their Super rugby squads.

In 2013, 7.4 percent of the New Zealand population (295,941 people) identified with one or more Pacific ethnic groups.  The Pacific peoples ethnic group was the fourth-largest major ethnic group in 2013, behind the European, Māori, and Asian ethnic groups.  Auckland has the largest population of Pacific Island people in the world and these are not people that have just turned up to play rugby.

The 35% of players would be NZ born or grew up in NZ from an early age.  These 'are' New Zealanders.  Just because they have brown skin does not mean they automatically think of themselves as islanders first and New Zealanders second.  Many white New Zealanders have UK grandparents or parents and they don't think of themselves as Europeans.  So why are Pacific Islanders special in this regard?

The more interesting statistic, would be the number of Pacific Island people living in Europe that do not play rugby (including families). I imagine I could count that number on my hands and toes.  The stat would look something like this.  PI heritage players make up less than 0.0003% of the UK population but make up 10% of the top tier player base.  A guess for dramatic effect but it'd be something like that.

A Samoan or Tongan could not live long-term in the UK or France if he wanted to.  He'd probably get a standard commonwealth visa to stay for a little bit in the UK and then get kicked out and probably wouldn't even get to stay in France.  But that same person would be free to apply for permanent residency in NZ given our 'close' cultural and historical ties. UK and France don't give a damn about the Pacific Islands, just their rugby players.  I know you guys take offence to this, but the funniest thing in the world is to see a Pacific Islander turning out for England or France.  It truly is the most ridiculous thing.  Because deep down, everyone knows that he is only in that country to play rugby and if he wasn't a rugby player, that Pacific islander would be on the first plane home as he wouldn't be welcome. Pacific Islanders are welcome to make a better life for themselves in NZ even if they don't play rugby.  This is why it is funny, think about it.

Sounds like you are insinuating that we are racist ebop.

The vast majority of Fijian's living in UK (like my godfather and his family) are here because of the army.

LondonTiger wrote:Sounds like you are insinuating that we are racist ebop.

The vast majority of Fijian's living in UK (like my godfather and his family) are here because of the army.

No, not racist. Those are just your rules. My pakeha wife got kicked out of England as her visa was up, that's life. It's just some in the NH (media mostly) are ignorant and constantly tar NZ with the same brush with what is happening in the NH. As if the NH is just doing what NZ has always done. It's ignorance. Most on 606 are more aware and credit to them. But to be fair, I struggle with the history and politics of the UK. So I don't comment about it. Some NH posters (not as many these days) think they have a handle on what happens in the Pacific but maybe they should refrain. Just like 'most' stay out of the SA debate as it's a minefield.

Ok, but the handful of Fijians in the army does not mean your country has its doors open to welcome 'all' Pacific Islanders into the country. Again, Fijians in the army is based on a certain qualifying requirement and I bet the numbers are small. Maori and Pacific Island cultures are an important and highly valued part of New Zealand's culture but a mere curiosity in Europe, unless you're a rugby player.

Anyways it was an unnecessary rant from me as the thread is not really about this, sorry. It is sad if these stories about PI players being taken advantage of are true and I hope the union can step in to help somehow.

Fanster wrote:Few facts that are worrying...

Over 43% of PI players eligible to play for a PI team plays overseas, with around 12% opting to play for their adopted countries.

over 20% of players at the last RWC were of PI descent. Thats the same as 20% of world class player coming from the same borough of Birmingham, under a million people. how crazy is that?

PI heritage makes up less than 6% of NZ's population, but 35% of their Super rugby squads.

Just under 25% of Australias RWC squad in 2011 were PI eritaged players.

And there were more PI heritaged players on the lions tour in 2013 than Scots...

I'm not saying this is everyones, or anyones fault in particular, but it is up to World Rugby to stop the stem of players being fished from a talent pool with the view of converting them. Brives academy is brash, but the Fijian U18 squad who beat NZ's a few years ago have been ravaged, with just 1 player left on the Island today!!!

Funny that SA come in for such a beating on 'transformation' unjustifiably when other countries exploitation is equally or even more disgraceful.

Fanster wrote:

Just under 25% of Australias RWC squad in 2011 were PI eritaged players.

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. Quite an ignorant comment. Australia is a country built on the back of immigration. Just over 25% of Australians were born outside of the country and 50% of the population are 1st generation. There have been large Tongan, Fijian and Samoan communities in Sydney and Brisbane for over 50 years and these being rugby and league heartlands, it was a natural progression for young men to play these sports. Granted, Henry Speight is a ring-in (his choice) but Nadolo (who is now representing Fiji) came through the Aussie school system and was eligible for the Wallabies but unbelievably, wasn't deemed good enough. His brother, Chris Kuridrani plays for Brisbane in the NRC and the Reds in the SXV. Folau, Kepu, Tevita Kuridrani, Cliffy Palu et al all were either born here or schooled here. Islander players have represented Australia in both league and rugby since the late 1970's. Migration between Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, Tonga and Samoa has always been very fluid. I suppose people from the NH don't understand this and this is why Australia and in particular, NZ get accused of poaching players. It is completely ridiculous and rather hypocritical for them to be accused of poaching players from the islands, when the NH are actively recruiting players and setting up academies there. How many islander communities are there in France, England, Ireland, Scotland etc? Not many i bet.  And lastly, after visiting the south pacific and in particular Fiji, many times over the years, whenever a rugby discussion comes up, their favourite teams (without fail) are the All Blacks and the Wallabies. I would reckon 70-80% of rugby playing Fijians I spoke to over the years said that if they had the choice and opportunity, they would play for these 2 sides, even over Fiji. Never once did any of them say their ambition was to play for France, England, Ireland, Wales or Scotland. Doubt they would know or even care, where to find these countries on a map.

Ben Ryan seems to be discussing a different sport, willful ignorance on the part of the writer, or just an honest mistake?

Whilst there are certainly large steps World Rugby can take to help improve things, it would likely also require tier 1 nations to be happy to forfeit some funding for it to go to tier 2/3 nations.

ebop wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Sounds like you are insinuating that we are racist ebop.

The vast majority of Fijian's living in UK (like my godfather and his family) are here because of the army.

No, not racist. Those are just your rules. My pakeha wife got kicked out of England as her visa was up, that's life. It's just some in the NH (media mostly) are ignorant and constantly tar NZ with the same brush with what is happening in the NH. As if the NH is just doing what NZ has always done. It's ignorance. Most on 606 are more aware and credit to them. But to be fair, I struggle with the history and politics of the UK. So I don't comment about it. Some NH posters (not as many these days) think they have a handle on what happens in the Pacific but maybe they should refrain. Just like 'most' stay out of the SA debate as it's a minefield.

Ok, but the handful of Fijians in the army does not mean your country has its doors open to welcome 'all' Pacific Islanders into the country. Again, Fijians in the army is based on a certain qualifying requirement and I bet the numbers are small. Maori and Pacific Island cultures are an important and highly valued part of New Zealand's culture but a mere curiosity in Europe, unless you're a rugby player.

Anyways it was an unnecessary rant from me as the thread is not really about this, sorry. It is sad if these stories about PI players being taken advantage of are true and I hope the union can step in to help somehow.

I think the Daily telegraph has a much better handle on what is going on in NZ than you do and you live there! You are deny-er is all and that is because eyou are ignorant of the facts. Educate yourself- unlikely i know- and you may have more perspective.

ebop wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Sounds like you are insinuating that we are racist ebop.

The vast majority of Fijian's living in UK (like my godfather and his family) are here because of the army.

No, not racist. Those are just your rules. My pakeha wife got kicked out of England as her visa was up, that's life. It's just some in the NH (media mostly) are ignorant and constantly tar NZ with the same brush with what is happening in the NH. As if the NH is just doing what NZ has always done. It's ignorance. Most on 606 are more aware and credit to them. But to be fair, I struggle with the history and politics of the UK. So I don't comment about it. Some NH posters (not as many these days) think they have a handle on what happens in the Pacific but maybe they should refrain. Just like 'most' stay out of the SA debate as it's a minefield.

Ok, but the handful of Fijians in the army does not mean your country has its doors open to welcome 'all' Pacific Islanders into the country. Again, Fijians in the army is based on a certain qualifying requirement and I bet the numbers are small. Maori and Pacific Island cultures are an important and highly valued part of New Zealand's culture but a mere curiosity in Europe, unless you're a rugby player.

Anyways it was an unnecessary rant from me as the thread is not really about this, sorry. It is sad if these stories about PI players being taken advantage of are true and I hope the union can step in to help somehow.

I have a feeling you are too ignorant to even see how offensive this assertion is? So, the culture of other sovereign nations is a highly valued part of NZ culture? Really? One wonders why? Read the telegraph and find out.

'I know you guys take offence to this, but the funniest thing in the world is to see a Pacific Islander turning out for England or France. It truly is the most ridiculous thing. Because deep down, everyone knows that he is only in that country to play rugby and if he wasn't a rugby player, that Pacific islander would be on the first plane home as he wouldn't be welcome.'

Well you're right I do take offence at that. Presumably you laugh when players like Lawes, Burrell, Wade etc take the field.

LondonTiger wrote:My replies have not been to you GF.

Ah my apologies

SecretFly wrote:Agents.  Snake Oil Salesmen

You MUST be selling it!

No 7&1/2 wrote:'I know you guys take offence to this, but the funniest thing in the world is to see a Pacific Islander turning out for England or France.  It truly is the most ridiculous thing.  Because deep down, everyone knows that he is only in that country to play rugby and if he wasn't a rugby player, that Pacific islander would be on the first plane home as he wouldn't be welcome.'

Well you're right I do take offence at that. Presumably you laugh when players like Lawes, Burrell, Wade etc take the field.

Why would I laugh at that? Keep up mate.

By the way, good post Icu.

So it's only PIs and not descendants from anywhere else then? Why would you laugh as Billy Vunpila pulls on the white shirt and not Lawes?

It's not about skin colour if that's what you're driving at. Anyways, I've done my dash, good luck.

So make a comment which you thought would offend as it sounds like it is around racism, be it colour or the point I made where a player decends from, then don't answer the response properly and leave the discussion. nice.

I cant help but think that Rob Nichol is right.

World Rugby should compile a list of accerdited agents, no country can then register a contract of an overseas player that hasnt been through a credited agent.

simple.
*World rugby would have control.
* The players association could be advised of the contract and the player contacted for advice.
*The player would be protected.
* The "snake oil" vendors would soon be identified.

No 7&1/2 wrote:So make a comment which you thought would offend as it sounds like it is around racism, be it colour or the point I made where a player decends from, then don't answer the response properly and leave the discussion. nice.

I think you have him...as they say "Check Mate"
Well done 7.5

Also, I think, if a player is declaring for a nation on residency, that World Rugby should get involved to investigate, weather the clubs or unions are pressurising him to declare for said country so that they do not lose out on the player during different tournament times.

There should be nothing wrong with a player still representing their country even if he lives and plays in another country. The same should apply to players mysteriously retiring from international duty out of the blue when they still have a lot to offer.

It's hard to do LD, maybe too aspirational. The players are making those decisions for their careers, just because we want internationals to be the pinacle can we force this onto the players etc? Also would we, could we force NZ England etc to pick players playing abroad (if you follow it through)?

Just seen that Census Johnston has now been called up to the Samoan squad

Guys,

My stats weren't meant to offend or attack any one nation, I purposely used examples from NZ, France, the UK and Australia to highlight the impact PI heritage has made on the game. Until recently this was limited to PI's and NZ, but now the Islands have become a free for all, and the statistics are terrifyingly biased against them!!

Imagine a world where a combined PI team could put out players like the Vunipolas, Falatau's, Rokidungi, Naikataci, Kaino, Fekitoa, Luatua, Savea, and Sonny Bill. Thats 10 world class players right there, not to mention many more, Tuilagi, Nonu, Mealamu, Hughes etc...

BamBam wrote:Just seen that Census Johnston has now been called up to the Samoan squad

Replacing the injured Mulipola. Weakens Samoa.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's hard to do LD, maybe too aspirational. The players are making those decisions for their careers, just because we want internationals to be the pinacle can we force this onto the players etc? Also would we, could we force NZ England etc to pick players playing abroad (if you follow it through)?

I was thinking more of the Toulon case, where the owner was demanding his stars to return from the RC. Teams around the world could force players to declare for say, France, then that player will not be lost to the clubs during the international periods.

Fair enough LD. I think about their owner as I do Katie Hopkins!

No 7&1/2 wrote:Fair enough LD. I think about their owner as I do Katie Hopkins!

I'd suggest Katie Hopkins would be better for rugby if she were in charge at Toulon!

I've been boozing so this won't be a well formed post but ...

aucklandlaurie wrote:
I cant help but think that Rob Nichol is right.

World Rugby should compile a list of accerdited agents, no country can then register a contract of an overseas player that hasnt been  through a credited agent.

simple.
*World rugby would have control.
* The players association could be advised of the contract and the player contacted for advice.
*The player would be protected.
* The "snake oil" vendors would soon be identified.

I remember, and I'm sure you do as well Laurie, the attacks on Khoder Nasser and what a villain he was and part of that message was he wasn't an accredited agent.  Having watched I now hold the view he acts very much for the best of his clients and little else. He doesn't seem a villain to me.

Accreditation can be good I would think but can't become a club that outsiders can't get into.

Raggs wrote:Ben Ryan seems to be discussing a different sport, willful ignorance on the part of the writer, or just an honest mistake?

Whilst there are certainly large steps World Rugby can take to help improve things, it would likely also require tier 1 nations to be happy to forfeit some funding for it to go to tier 2/3 nations.

i like the system other sports run where the clubs a player came through get a cut of the money. I remember being about 12 and a product of our small country club made the AFL. The club received money and updated all the gear. I also like the fact the AFL don't recognise a school that offered a player a scholarship that includes footy. It recognises he was very good when he got there and is effectively In the system in getting that scholarship.

LordDowlais wrote:Also, I think, if a player is declaring for a nation on residency, that World Rugby should get involved to investigate, weather the clubs or unions are pressurising him to declare for said country so that they do not lose out on the player during different tournament times.

There should be nothing wrong with a player still representing their country even if he lives and plays in another country. The same should apply to players mysteriously retiring from international duty out of the blue when they still have a lot to offer.

That was exactly the point I was trying to make.

Fanster wrote:Guys,

My stats weren't meant to offend or attack any one nation, I purposely used examples from NZ, France, the UK and Australia to highlight the impact PI heritage has made on the game. Until recently this was limited to PI's and NZ, but now the Islands have become a free for all, and the statistics are terrifyingly biased against them!!

Imagine a world where a combined PI team could put out players like the Vunipolas, Falatau's, Rokidungi, Naikataci, Kaino, Fekitoa, Luatua, Savea, and Sonny Bill. Thats 10 world class players right there, not to mention many more, Tuilagi, Nonu, Mealamu, Hughes etc...

Imagine a world where a combined European side could pick up anyone with heriatge form the leagues across the world, and didnt have to bother with a professional set up coaching etc because someone else was bankrolling that for them.
On top of that they could cream a few million quid in paymnets from World Rugby and put them directly into the pockets of the administrators (who also happen to be politicians)



Look the issue here isnt the well paid stars who made it anyway.
Its the ones who are being conned and led astray by outright crooks. A kid like Manu who was bought up to be a rugby player and shipped over to England to join his family is a very different case to the ones being discussd in the article.

No different to any other profession.

boomeranga wrote:I've been boozing so this won't be a well formed post but ...

aucklandlaurie wrote:
I cant help but think that Rob Nichol is right.

World Rugby should compile a list of accerdited agents, no country can then register a contract of an overseas player that hasnt been  through a credited agent.

simple.
*World rugby would have control.
* The players association could be advised of the contract and the player contacted for advice.
*The player would be protected.
* The "snake oil" vendors would soon be identified.

I remember, and I'm sure you do as well Laurie, the attacks on Khoder Nasser and what a villain he was and part of that message was he wasn't an accredited agent.  Having watched I now hold the view he acts very much for the best of his clients and little else. He doesn't seem a villain to me.

Accreditation can be good I would think but can't become a club that outsiders can't get into.

Thats a very good point Boomer, because I agree with you Khoder Nasser does act in the interests of his clients, (just not sure on the Sonny Bills departure from Canterbury bankstown incident), when I wrote the above, I had in mind the NRL policy on accredited agents, and how it did get rid of some really dodgy dealers. if memory serves me correctly John Elias wanted to be a players agent in Sydney when he got out of jail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3232957/Rugby-World-Cup-2015-special-investigation-Pacific-Islands-poaching.html

Daily Mail has a Pacific Islands poaching "investigation", although that word seems to mean "regurgitating other articles on the subject".

Rugby Fan wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-3232957/Rugby-World-Cup-2015-special-investigation-Pacific-Islands-poaching.html

Daily Mail has a Pacific Islands poaching "investigation", although that word seems to mean "regurgitating other articles on the subject".

I don't think either article is particularly bad. In context they're aimed at English readers. Kiwi journalists were shocked at the lack of basic knowledge of rugby journalists when England toured here last. So I think it's moving forward. The contracting of school kids to professional union clubs in Europe and the NRL has been reported down here. It also affects NZ (mainly the NRL and Australian rugby, although the parents of 1 12 year kid from our club were considering the rugby scholarships in the UK). The reality is we don't have a professional under 20 competition in rugby in NZ.