Miguel Cotto - Disgusting the flak he is getting !!

Let's look at the facts....

1. Cotto beats the number 1 middleweight in the World............Not his fault Martinez was past it !!.....Did the job and picked up an excellent win against a bigger opponent....

2. All champions are afforded a voluntary defence....Generally against an easy target...........Ali-Coopman.........Curry-Larocca...Honey-Bumphus/Hatcher/Vaca..Holmes - Ocasio.....Hagler-Hamsho/Obel twice...........He isn't breaking with convention...

3. Alvarez is the number 2 at 154...........and his credentials are better than john Mugabi who no one minded taking on Hagler.......Even though he came a whisker to being stopped by journeyman James hard rock green...

Posters having a pop at Cotto are either so far up GGG's backside they can't think straight or have no idea of Boxing history..

Sure we'd all like to see GGG v Cotto..............But I think Alvarez v Cotto is a great fight...........50/50 for me...

Cotto is doing nothing wrong..............He's beaten the number 1 middle.....Let him do what every other champion does and make a voluntary..

Cotto deserves more respect..

Couldn't agree more Truss. I think Cotto has been slated wrongly these past months.

He did an exceptional job on Sergio with a solid performance (I personally never had that happening as I picked Martinez to stop him in 6).

He looms strong at the weight and has done well in his career.

I think he beats Alvarez.

I think one poster on here picked an upset....

End of the day he beat the MAN at middle..........A guy wants a voluntary....He can have one like all the greats no one moans about !!

Ah Truss, you're a man after my own heart on this subject. He won the title five minutes ago and some people are implying he's some kind of career middleweight who's been ducking GGG for years.

Great fighter, brilliant career.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think one poster on here picked an upset....

End of the day he beat the MAN at middle..........A guy wants a voluntary....He can have one like all the greats no one moans about !!

Top of my head, it might have been Catchweight who picked Cotto for an upset against Martinez. I was just hopeful he'd last 9   

Nope, not me

A few called it. I didn't, I sat on the fence because I thought it was down to who was most shot. Only one looked it on the night. Agree with the sentiment of the thread. We all want to see some juicy fights and ggg to get his shot, but the real big money fight is Alvarez and a 'safe' voluntary before that is the smart business option.

I'm not a huge cotto fan, always gives value for money but never thought he was that special. Regardless of what was in front of him he looked really sharp against martinez. So what if his timing was right... That's what matchmaking in boxing is all about. Don't remember hatton getting grief for waiting for Tszyu to get old, mcguigan for pedrosa, Stracey for napoles etc etc

Leonard for Hagler...Milky.......Even though he got a silent beating !!  

With my wife in the family way I've been reduced to a few silent beatings of my own recently trussy.

Opus Dei ??

milkyboy wrote:With my wife in the family way I've been reduced to a few silent beatings of my own recently trussy.

Again? I take my hat off to you milky. You're in your mid 50's and you're still going strong.   

For me the middleweight division needed a clear champion around 2012 when Martinez was in his pomp and GGG was smashing people up for fun. A match up between the two would have been mouthwatering both stylistically and in terms of gravitas. In 2012, I'd have favoured Martinez. Today, the answer is clear.

In 2014, I don't think there's much of an argument who the best middleweight in the world is. Although I am the biggest fan of Cotto and rate him highly between 147 and 150 odd lbs I don't see him beating GGG. I don't see what GGG unifying the division really does, we already know he is the best.

Maybe I'm guilty of devaluing belts/divisions but I'd rather see big names face each other in big fights. For me, that's Cotto fighting Alvarez and GGG fighting Froch/Ward et al at 168lbs.

I appreciate there's an argument saying why should GGG step up, fights against Froch and Ward aren't viable financially etc but I'm speaking from a purely sporting standpoint.

Atila wrote:

milkyboy wrote:With my wife in the family way I've been reduced to a few silent beatings of my own recently trussy.

Again? I take my hat off to you milky. You're in your mid 50's and you're still going strong.   

Communication is everything during sex.......I'm lucky enough to have had phone calls from Jo from all around the Country !!

After Roy Jones beat John Ruiz to win the HW title, what would Lennox Lewis knocking out Roy Jones have proven?

(that was my attempt at doing a Truss and comparing a current situation to the past. How did I do?)

Atila wrote:

milkyboy wrote:With my wife in the family way I've been reduced to a few silent beatings of my own recently trussy.

Again? I take my hat off to you milky. You're in your mid 50's and you're still going strong.   

Viagra and a splint... that's the secret

Dipper Brown wrote:After Roy Jones beat John Ruiz to win the HW title, what would Lennox Lewis knocking out Roy Jones have proven?

(that was my attempt at doing a Truss and comparing a current situation to the past. How did I do?)

At the end of the day............Convention is you beat the MAN and then you're either forced into a mandatory or you get a voluntary........With a mandatory to follow...

Things haven't changed in that regard..

Everybody knows Golovkin would knock Cotto out but he needs those kind of fights to build his career and raise his profile. The door is being slammed shut on him everywhere.

If Martinez had of fought Golovkin a year or two ago, we could be talking about a massive Golovkin v Froch ppv fight. He didn't though, and now Froch is talking about Vegas with Chavez or bust and that Golovkin doesn't bring enough cash to the table. No fight.

I was hopeful that Cotto would face Golovkin. It would be a huge fight. But the sounds coming from them have been totally negative. They want a keep busy fight first, then they want Alvarez. Golovkin isn't ppv worthy. The fight would have to happen at 155 lb limit. Reading between the lines, basically they aren't interested in making it happen.

Fans should be increasing pressure for these fights to happen, rather than make excuses for them not.

Hopeful or not.................Cotto beat the Man and is allowed a voluntary........

Without people singling him out for special attention !!..........

Fans on here never increased pressure before............Because the Past was great apparently..

Double standards...........

Cotto is entitled to fight GGG after Alvarez....It's tough crap for GGG

Dipper Brown wrote:After Roy Jones beat John Ruiz to win the HW title, what would Lennox Lewis knocking out Roy Jones have proven?

(that was my attempt at doing a Truss and comparing a current situation to the past. How did I do?)

Could have done with a way to relate it to Hagler, but as a first attempt it definitely shows promise.

Rowley wrote:

Dipper Brown wrote:After Roy Jones beat John Ruiz to win the HW title, what would Lennox Lewis knocking out Roy Jones have proven?

(that was my attempt at doing a Truss and comparing a current situation to the past. How did I do?)

Could have done with a way to relate it to Hagler, but as a first attempt it definitely shows promise.

Praise indeed !!

Yeah I swear Ive never witnessed any boxing fan call for a boxer to face their main rival. Whatever next.

Martinez Had one fight after GGG hit the big lights, and he's been ducking him for years...

I'll put my hand up, I don't like Cotto. Two world titles off one legged fighters. Apparently a bit of a diva, permanently bald...

He ducked him big time

catchweight wrote:Yeah I swear Ive never witnessed any boxing fan call for a boxer to face their main rival. Whatever next.

Haven't you ??

catchweight wrote:Everybody knows Golovkin would knock Cotto out but he needs those kind of fights to build his career and raise his profile. The door is being slammed shut on him everywhere.

If Martinez had of fought Golovkin a year or two ago, we could be talking about a massive Golovkin v Froch ppv fight. He didn't though, and now Froch is talking about Vegas with Chavez or bust and that Golovkin doesn't bring enough cash to the table. No fight.

I was hopeful that Cotto would face Golovkin. It would be a huge fight. But the sounds coming from them have been totally negative. They want a keep busy fight first, then they want Alvarez. Golovkin isn't ppv worthy. The fight would have to happen at 155 lb limit. Reading between the lines, basically they aren't interested in making it happen.

Fans should be increasing pressure for these fights to happen, rather than make excuses for them not.

We're fans, fighters and their reps are businessmen catchy. I empathise with your point, but empathy isn't going to change it.  

Yep cotto is middleweight champ and ggg is a middle.

But apparently ggg will go to super middle and fight froch. It could happen in Vegas, it would be less money than junior but still decent money. Froch is bigger than ggg not smaller, froch is a warrior.

Why not get p*ssed at froch for chafing a soft payday in chavez instead of cotto. It would be a more interesting fight too.

kingraf wrote:Martinez Had one fight after GGG hit the big lights, and he's been ducking him for years...

I'll put my hand up, I don't like Cotto. Two world titles off one legged fighters. Apparently a bit of a diva, permanently bald...

Not attractive enough for you raf? You prefer your men 6'2 and Adonis-like?

Sorry, but Martinez had knee surgery after Chavez. Given the animal GGG seems to be, could you even hope to make a case for Martinez fighting GGG without a tune up to see how his knee was?

I can kind of see what you're saying Truss, think the issue is, as catchweight has alluded to above every impression and rumour coming out of the Cotto camp suggests GGG is not on their radar, not now or any time in the future. If the rumblings were, I have only just won the belt, let me take a voluntary, get a bit more accustomed to the weight and then GGG can be next am sure most would have sympathy. However this again looks like a situation where the two clear best at a weight will not be fighting any time soon. Nothing unusual in that I am afraid in this day and age, but when it is pretty clear to everyone which of the parties is stopping that happening inevitable he will get some grief for his stance.

That might be it, Milky. He's a manlet, and doesn't have defined abs, or a barrel chest.

milkyboy wrote:

catchweight wrote:Everybody knows Golovkin would knock Cotto out but he needs those kind of fights to build his career and raise his profile. The door is being slammed shut on him everywhere.

If Martinez had of fought Golovkin a year or two ago, we could be talking about a massive Golovkin v Froch ppv fight. He didn't though, and now Froch is talking about Vegas with Chavez or bust and that Golovkin doesn't bring enough cash to the table. No fight.

I was hopeful that Cotto would face Golovkin. It would be a huge fight. But the sounds coming from them have been totally negative. They want a keep busy fight first, then they want Alvarez. Golovkin isn't ppv worthy. The fight would have to happen at 155 lb limit. Reading between the lines, basically they aren't interested in making it happen.

Fans should be increasing pressure for these fights to happen, rather than make excuses for them not.

We're fans, fighters and their reps are businessmen catchy. I empathise with your point, but empathy isn't going to change it.  

Yep cotto is middleweight champ and ggg is a middle.

But apparently ggg will go to super middle and fight froch. It could happen in Vegas, it would be less money than junior but still decent money. Froch is bigger than ggg not smaller, froch is a warrior.

Why not get p*ssed at froch for chafing a soft payday in chavez instead of cotto. It would be a more interesting fight too.

GGG should be looking for scalps at 168 anyway............Like Jones jr at 160 we've given him the middleweight top status without unification...Cotto won't prove anything as we all know he kills him !!......He's 32/33 why not fight the big fights before he's past it !!..

We've given him 160....His window is closing.....

kingraf wrote:Martinez Had one fight after GGG hit the big lights, and he's been ducking him for years...

I'll put my hand up, I don't like Cotto. Two world titles off one legged fighters. Apparently a bit of a diva, permanently bald...

Raf, I get the impression Cotto could beat a centaur and you wouldn't be impressed!  

kingraf wrote:That might be it, Milky. He's a manlet, and doesn't have defined abs, or a barrel chest.

I don't fancy the baldy pigmy either raf... Think dipper has a man crush though.

Ha ha, guilty as charged. Don't tell Eddie Hearn about my wandering eye will you Milky?

Rowley wrote:I can kind of see what you're saying Truss, think the issue is, as catchweight has alluded to above every impression and rumour coming out of the Cotto camp suggests GGG is not on their radar, not now or any time in the future. If the rumblings were, I have only just won the belt, let me take a voluntary, get a bit more accustomed to the weight and then GGG can be next am sure most would have sympathy. However this again looks like a situation where the two clear best at a weight will not be fighting any time soon. Nothing unusual in that I am afraid in this day and age, but when it is pretty clear to everyone which of the parties is stopping that happening inevitable he will get some grief for his stance.

Couldn't agree more...See what happens after Alvarez !!...We all want to see the top fights............My point is however as you know.............He's getting hammered for a conventional practice.....and I don't think It's fair..

I've given GGG the Cotto fight.............I think it's a slap...........Much rather he sorted froch and the ilk out....

Much rather have seen sanchez - Chavez at 130.....Than Sanchez-Pedroza...........As Sanchez would only have been confirming what we already knew !!

milkyboy wrote:

catchweight wrote:Everybody knows Golovkin would knock Cotto out but he needs those kind of fights to build his career and raise his profile. The door is being slammed shut on him everywhere.

If Martinez had of fought Golovkin a year or two ago, we could be talking about a massive Golovkin v Froch ppv fight. He didn't though, and now Froch is talking about Vegas with Chavez or bust and that Golovkin doesn't bring enough cash to the table. No fight.

I was hopeful that Cotto would face Golovkin. It would be a huge fight. But the sounds coming from them have been totally negative. They want a keep busy fight first, then they want Alvarez. Golovkin isn't ppv worthy. The fight would have to happen at 155 lb limit. Reading between the lines, basically they aren't interested in making it happen.

Fans should be increasing pressure for these fights to happen, rather than make excuses for them not.

We're fans, fighters and their reps are businessmen catchy. I empathise with your point, but empathy isn't going to change it.  

Yep cotto is middleweight champ and ggg is a middle.

But apparently ggg will go to super middle and fight froch. It could happen in Vegas, it would be less money than junior but still decent money. Froch is bigger than ggg not smaller, froch is a warrior.

Why not get p*ssed at froch for chafing a soft payday in chavez instead of cotto. It would be a more interesting fight too.

I know how it works. But that doesnt mean I have to make excuses for it.

I don't think Froch has the same obligation on him to face Golovkin because they are in different divisions. Obviously it a tougher fight than Chavez.

I wouldn't particularly care if Golovkin was some Junior Witter style stinker. But one of the best and most exciting fighters in the sport is being frozen out.

Why make the excuses for a sh1tty situation?

Should everyone have just piped down and kept quiet when Mayweather and Pacquiao managed to spectacularly avoid each other?

I see Truss is ignoring the fact that despite being Middleweight (160lbs) champion - Cotto is asking for catch weights which makes a complete mockery of the system.

But don't let facts ruin your day fat man, keep up with the sensationalist bullsh!t its rather amusing.

No no, it's fine for you to be unhappy about it, but as you say he'll knock him out anyway, most boxing fans believe he will clean up at middle but that there's no decent opponents there... So whilst it's all good and well to want to do a hagler, the more interesting fights for the fans are up a weight. If he's happy to go up, then why not. As truss say's he's the fans middleweight champion now.

Benn took on mclellan, the ggg of his day, why can't our international superstar give us the fight we all want as a send off?  Why doesn't froch have the obligation if ggg is willing to go to super? If it's about giving fights fans they want?  What would you rather see as a fight, ggg v cotto or froch?

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I see Truss is ignoring the fact that despite being Middleweight (160lbs) champion - Cotto is asking for catch weights which makes a complete mockery of the system.

But don't let facts ruin your day fat man, keep up with the sensationalist bullsh!t its rather amusing.

As long as you are enjoying it...That's the main thing !!  

Tell you what annoyed me....roach saying that cotton would only fight cotton UNDER the 160lbs limit as he is too big?

Sorry....but you just won the title at 160lbs....so defend it there please.

At least once anyway.

If I had a choice of fights I would go with Golovkin v Froch 100%. But as you can see from the rhetoric coming from Froch/Hearn, they basically don't want it and would only take it if there was extraordinary money involved. They will say what every other big name name is saying "its business not personal". What does going up do for him at this stage? He would have gone up for Chavez, he would go up for Froch. Outside of that all he is doing is repeating what hes done at middleweight.

Hes recognised by pretty much everyone as the best middleweight but he needs the big fights, regardless of division, to take him to the next level. At the moment hes built up all his momentum at middleweight to the point where its hard for any other middleweight to credibly call themselves the best and the big names are now under pressure to face him. If he had cleaned out middleweight, and taken part in some major fights and was bringing a lot more to the table then it would be hard for someone like Froch to avoid facing him if he put the challenge on him.

Ok its a fair point that it would be harder for the supers to avoid him if he'd cleaned out middle, but he's more hindered by his nationality than his belts. Like you say, they all say its business and from their point of view it is, but cotto has a very likely and potentially winnable date with Alvarez to think about, froch doesn't look like he has anyone at the moment.

My point really is, if there's a villain on this, is cotto the only one?

Dipper Brown wrote:Ha ha, guilty as charged. Don't tell Eddie Hearn about my wandering eye will you Milky?

A threesome? Strongy might buy that if it was ppv.

milkyboy wrote:Ok its a fair point that it would be harder for the supers to avoid him if he'd cleaned out middle, but he's more hindered by his nationality than his belts. Like you say, they all say its business and from their point of view it is, but cotto has a very likely and potentially winnable date with Alvarez to think about, froch doesn't look like he has anyone at the moment.

My point really is, if there's a villain on this, is cotto the only one?

Its a broken system overall that allows this kind of situation to develop. When you blow everything away though, whats really going on is that the various big names know Golovkin is a nightmare fight and they would rather fight easier opponents to protect their own interests.

This can be justified to varying degrees depending on the circumstances. It will be argued that Cotto v Alvarez is simply too big not to happen. On paper its a competitive fight. Its one of the most financially lucrative in the sport. So it makes it easier to justify avoiding Golovkin.

But Cotto v Andy Lee for arguments sake? Well that shouldn't be acceptable in the circumstances where there is such an obvious rival waiting in the wings calling for the fight. Especially while trying to dismiss Golovkin on financial grounds and refusing to entertain facing him at the middleweight limit.

milkyboy wrote:Ok its a fair point that it would be harder for the supers to avoid him if he'd cleaned out middle, but he's more hindered by his nationality than his belts. Like you say, they all say its business and from their point of view it is, but cotto has a very likely and potentially winnable date with Alvarez to think about, froch doesn't look like he has anyone at the moment.

My point really is, if there's a villain on this, is cotto the only one?

You can't be comparing the Cotto and Froch situations surely Milky?

Froch has no obligation to fight somebody in the division below him whereas Cotto as the now middleweight champion should be fighting the toughest challenges in his division.

I agree that people have degraded Cotto's performance needlessly, however let's not say he beat the man at 160. He beat the man at 160 at 156 or some other non existent class.

Regardless of the wrong guys getting a shot in the past, that doesn't make it anymore ok today. Alvarez has never fought at 160, gets a shot. Lee has tried and failed at 160, gone to 154 where he has one questionable performance and is rumoured to get a shot. Golovkin has been bashing any middleweight who'll face him.for years and is clearly the best there. Forced to move up despite still being a comfortable middleweight.

Cotto wants a moneymaker? Well boxing is GGG's job too and he needs to make a living too and has earned his right to do that as middleweight champion. Why can't Alvarez prove his form as a middleweight first if he's worthy?

The champ should face the best, otherwise being champ means nothing.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:
The champ should face the best, otherwise being champ means nothing.

You screenwriting a new Rocky movie john?

Rocky searches through a draw for some clean undies but gets nipped by a lobster

ROCKY: oh no I got nipped by a lobster, and the squids outside are far too numerous

Rocky's son defenestrates himself.

ROCKY: What did I just ducking say about the ducking squid?

Cut to McDonald's
Adrian.is purchasing an apple pie, the clerk hands it to her

CLERK: It's freshly made and is currently hotter than boiling water so give it time to cool.

ADRIAN: Awesome. I'll insert it into my eyeball immediately.

Cut montage of Rocky making a stew while his cat attacks some children.

ROCKY: Uuh this blackberry desnt locate any WiFi

DRAGO: That's an actual berry Rocky

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

milkyboy wrote:Ok its a fair point that it would be harder for the supers to avoid him if he'd cleaned out middle, but he's more hindered by his nationality than his belts. Like you say, they all say its business and from their point of view it is, but cotto has a very likely and potentially winnable date with Alvarez to think about, froch doesn't look like he has anyone at the moment.

My point really is, if there's a villain on this, is cotto the only one?

You can't be comparing the Cotto and Froch situations surely Milky?

Froch has no obligation to fight somebody in the division below him whereas Cotto as the now middleweight champion should be fighting the toughest challenges in his division.

I don't like froch so I shoehorn him into any negativity I can find hammy!

That aside, I stand by the argument. Boxing always has been about money which means risk reward for any potential fight. Cotto has an obvious winnable huge payday to come, so ggg has to wait. He either continues to defend his belt or fight quillin and soliman until cotto and Alvarez have made their mint... By then there will be a greater clamour and fewer alternatives. It's how the business works we all know this, unification fights are a rare treat in boxing. Why single out cotto.

If ggg is bored of waiting and wants to move up, then fair play to him. And if we want to believe in warrior spirit and the best fighting the best then why shouldn't 6 footer froch fight the beast rather than blown up light welter pigmy cotto?

In what part of that would it be ducking if Froch doesn't fight him? The guy doesn't even fight in his division, personally would love to see the fight just so the GGG fanboys shut up about their mans apparent greatness when he's lying face down.

GGG doesn't have fanboys, he has a fellowship.