Archie Moore vs RJJ

Simple question.

Who wins when both fighters were at their peaks (whenever Moore's peak was).

I'd go for RJJ via close but decisive UD. His footwork would do it.

Briefly, Roy dazzles for a while, but Archie eventually catches up with him. 15 rounds are a long time to avoid the fists of a man as cunning as Ole Mongoose. And when Moore does land, I fear trouble. Moore KO 12 Jones, having just about pegged back RJJ's early points lead.

For all his flash I think many of RJJ's blows would be finding nothing but shoulder or elbow, and Moore at his very best doesn't have to land much at all to stop Jones. I think Jones is getting stopped, with a chin like his and power like Moore's it's a matter of when and not if in my opinion. Maybe like Johnson v Green but with the talent on display multiplied by several million.

This debate wont end well. For me, Moore is too clever, and Jones makes too many fundamental errors. Roy gives him problems but eventually makes a mistake and gets knocked out.

Oddly enough (considering how much talent is on show in this particular match up) I can see this bout being a bit of a disappointing spectacle. Two fighters who like to fight in bursts aren't the best ingredients for a good fight. Still interesting, all the same. Nice pick, Azania.

Would have to go with Moore, though, and by knockout at that. I'll stress that there's every chance he's going to have to reverse a points defecit to do so, mind you, and there's also a chance that he may still be behind on the cards when it happens.

It could take a while for the 'Old Mongoose' to warm up, now and then. Durelle almost had him out of there in one and Johnson reeled off round after round in their title fight before Archie roared back (obviously, let's not forget what a fabulous fighter Johnson was in his own right). But as he showed in those fights, I just can't see any way that Moore goes fifteen rounds without catching up with Jones, who'd take the majority of the early rounds by keeping Moore at distance.

As soon as Moore catches Jones, the fight is over. I'll go with Moore to knock Jones out in the championship rounds, while a point or so behind on the cards.

Moore hit very hard, but I dont see RJJ as being chinny. Also he had extremely good reflexes and had no trouble with distance fights. He was also a very cautious fighter and took few chances the better the opponent. He was also a very good puncher and when he got an opponent hurt he usually finished them off.

I see RJJ evading Moore's attempts to feignt and kid RJJ into landing his powershots. RJJ to win a not too exciting matchup. I see it similar to RJJ/Toney or McCallum fight but a lot more competitive.

Roy Jones was born in 1969. Archie Moore was born in 1913. Roy Jones fought his entire career in full colour. No contest. 8)

BALTIMORA wrote:Roy Jones was born in 1969. Archie Moore was born in 1913. Roy Jones fought his entire career in full colour. No contest. 8)

He's been rubbish in HD though, the true test of any boxer.

Scottrf wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Roy Jones was born in 1969. Archie Moore was born in 1913. Roy Jones fought his entire career in full colour. No contest. 8)

He's been rubbish in HD though, the true test of any boxer.

Goddamnit.

BALTIMORA wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Roy Jones was born in 1969. Archie Moore was born in 1913. Roy Jones fought his entire career in full colour. No contest. 8)

He's been rubbish in HD though, the true test of any boxer.

Goddamnit.

Its 3D now mate.

But let's not stray please. I have my serious hat on for a change.

azania wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Roy Jones was born in 1969. Archie Moore was born in 1913. Roy Jones fought his entire career in full colour. No contest. 8)

He's been rubbish in HD though, the true test of any boxer.

Goddamnit.

Its 3D now mate.

But let's not stray please. I have my serious hat on for a change.

Ok dokie. I'll go for Bobby Moore.

Sorry Az, have to go with the crowd on this this one, Moore to win by KO. Over 15 rounds I am convinced he would catch up with RJJ at some point, get him hurt and then the fight is over.

Moore would be a mile behind on points and may even taste the canvass himself but would also catch a lot of Roy's shots on his arms and shoulders, walking Roy down over the later rounds and knocking him out sometime after round 10.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Sorry Az, have to go with the crowd on this this one, Moore to win by KO. Over 15 rounds I am convinced he would catch up with RJJ at some point, get him hurt and then the fight is over.

Moore would be a mile behind on points and may even taste the canvass himself but would also catch a lot of Roy's shots on his arms and shoulders, walking Roy down over the later rounds and knocking him out sometime after round 10.

When will he catch up with him between 13-15? I dont see RJJ as having a stamina issue so what he did for R1-12 he could do in R13-15.

BALTIMORA wrote:

azania wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Roy Jones was born in 1969. Archie Moore was born in 1913. Roy Jones fought his entire career in full colour. No contest. 8)

He's been rubbish in HD though, the true test of any boxer.

Goddamnit.

Its 3D now mate.

But let's not stray please. I have my serious hat on for a change.

Ok dokie. I'll go for Bobby Moore.

I suppose I have deserved it.

Humbled Az

I agree with Az here. To me this fight looks something like the RJJ vs Toney match up, except with more scares for Roy. RJJ to fight cagey, use his footwork and win a clearish and relatively boring UD

azania wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Sorry Az, have to go with the crowd on this this one, Moore to win by KO. Over 15 rounds I am convinced he would catch up with RJJ at some point, get him hurt and then the fight is over.

Moore would be a mile behind on points and may even taste the canvass himself but would also catch a lot of Roy's shots on his arms and shoulders, walking Roy down over the later rounds and knocking him out sometime after round 10.

When will he catch up with him between 13-15? I dont see RJJ as having a stamina issue so what he did for R1-12 he could do in R13-15.

I'm not really saying he had a stamina problem as such, but he is human and will become more tired towards the end of the fight, as will Moore, but I just fancy Moore to be in a better position to take advantage in the latter stages. Your right, Jones may be able to keep him off for the duration but I don't see it. At some point, Moores ringcraft and cunning will get him in position to tag Roy cleanly and then it's all over.

But hey, I don't expect you to agree, afterall you claimed that Herbie Hide would beat Jim Jeffries in a previous thread!

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

azania wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Sorry Az, have to go with the crowd on this this one, Moore to win by KO. Over 15 rounds I am convinced he would catch up with RJJ at some point, get him hurt and then the fight is over.

Moore would be a mile behind on points and may even taste the canvass himself but would also catch a lot of Roy's shots on his arms and shoulders, walking Roy down over the later rounds and knocking him out sometime after round 10.

When will he catch up with him between 13-15? I dont see RJJ as having a stamina issue so what he did for R1-12 he could do in R13-15.

I'm not really saying he had a stamina problem as such, but he is human and will become more tired towards the end of the fight, as will Moore, but I just fancy Moore to be in a better position to take advantage in the latter stages. Your right, Jones may be able to keep him off for the duration but I don't see it. At some point, Moores ringcraft and cunning will get him in position to tag Roy cleanly and then it's all over.

But hey, I don't expect you to agree, afterall you claimed that Herbie Hide would beat Jim Jeffries in a previous thread!

RJJ had a load of ring craft and cunning also. Punched from angles which Archie would know existed. Plus (bid advantage here), RJJ had excellent footwork coupled with awesome handspeed which will keep Moore guessing and unable to impose his gameplan on RJJ.

I stand by that comment, but this is not the thread for it. Nice to see someone else agree with me for a change.

Can't envisage anything other than a knockout win for Moore any time after the 8th round, once he lands and he will lands its good night vienna, would add that Jones isn't Ezzard Charles the only fighter that Moore really struggled with.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Can't envisage anything other than a knockout win for Moore any time after the 8th round, once he lands and he will lands its good night vienna, would add that Jones isn't Ezzard Charles the only fighter that Moore really struggled with.

Burley and Booker spring to mind as two he struggled with, among a number of other defeats.

I'm happy to go Jones win crazy against the great middles, but against the LH's that go round flooring heavyweight champions and being big at the weight I think you have to look at Jones chin and worry.

Moore to take Jones out late on (9 onwards), with the fight being won by Moore at that point. Jones will be fully aware of Moore's power and wont be his usual fluent self because of it. If he is he gets taken out early. A man that can put an iron chinned heavy in Marciano down doesnt struggle to bad when he hits jones.

Although slightly past his best, Jones struggled badly with Tarver edging a MD. Jones' CV bum of the month for too long and I see nothing to suggest he has a chance vs Moore.

Az, Hide to beat Jeffries...

No wonder people can't take what you say seriously.

azania wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Sorry Az, have to go with the crowd on this this one, Moore to win by KO. Over 15 rounds I am convinced he would catch up with RJJ at some point, get him hurt and then the fight is over.

Moore would be a mile behind on points and may even taste the canvass himself but would also catch a lot of Roy's shots on his arms and shoulders, walking Roy down over the later rounds and knocking him out sometime after round 10.

When will he catch up with him between 13-15? I dont see RJJ as having a stamina issue so what he did for R1-12 he could do in R13-15.

A first hand account of Moore said watching him was like watching a mechanic working on a car, finding it's faults, but rather than fixing them, exploiting them and making them worse. He might lose afew early rounds but he'd use that time to figure his opponent out and begin to dismantle them. It's not a slight at Roy that I think Moore would find him and grind him down over time, but a compliment to Moore's boxing brain.

Moore for me. For all his gifts Roy makes mistakes, particularly defensively such as when he leans away from punches. Against most due to his exceptional reflexes he gets away with these things but against Moore he is in with one of the greatest fighters ever at working out an opponents weaknesses and coming up with the answers and have to think against Roy he does likewise.

Whilst I have never been overly convinced with the Roy is chinny argument, he is not made of stone in that department and Archie has both the power and finishing skills to get the job done when he catches up to Roy late on. Archie by late KO for me.

Moore was one of the craftiest and most resourceful fighters who ever laced on the gloves. Too savvy, by far, to be confused by Jones' wonderful unorthodoxy, too clever to not find the target eventually, and too big a hitter to land on Jones without hurting him.

Badly.

Jones to sweep the early rounds, Archie to work him out, work him over and knock him out some time after halfway.

Jones would still beat Tunney though Windy, think we can all agree on that.

rowley wrote:Jones would still beat Tunney though Windy, think we can all agree on that.

I'm not playing, jeff.

Much too nice a day for an early punch up.

Well if you ignore Tunney's wins over Dempsey and Greb his record doesn't look nearly so good

Now imagine if Roy had retired unbeaten and was 2 inches taller.

fearlessBamber wrote:Well if you ignore Tunney's wins over Dempsey and Greb his record doesn't look nearly so good

Now imagine if Roy had retired unbeaten and was 2 inches taller.

Bamber, you rotten sod, if this kicks off I'm going to request that you be made honorary mod for a day so that you can clean up the mess.

Bamber, you rotten sod, if this kicks off I'm going to request that you be made honorary mod for a day so that you can clean up the mess.

Mmmmmmmmmm power

fearlessBamber wrote:

Bamber, you rotten sod, if this kicks off I'm going to request that you be made honorary mod for a day so that you can clean up the mess.

Mmmmmmmmmm power

Trust me if Coxy gets a head of steam on this one you will view that power as a curse rather than a gift.

fearlessBamber wrote:

Bamber, you rotten sod, if this kicks off I'm going to request that you be made honorary mod for a day so that you can clean up the mess.

Mmmmmmmmmm power

I admire your optimism, mate. ' fearless ' is very apt. Modding is more akin to cleaning toilets than it is to wielding power.

I admire your optimism, mate. ' fearless ' is very apt. Modding is more akin to cleaning toilets than it is to wielding power.

I don't doubt it - like being a substitute teacher in a class full of ne'er-do-wells.

fearlessBamber wrote:

I admire your optimism, mate. ' fearless ' is very apt. Modding is more akin to cleaning toilets than it is to wielding power.

I don't doubt it - like being a substitute teacher in a class full of ne'er-do-wells.

I can only imagine, Bamber, but I understand the parallel.

Bamber this is brilliant, Rowley uses "boorish" and now you use "ne'er-do-wells"

Great stuff guys and I am going to attempt to get these into at least one conversation today.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Bamber this is brilliant, Rowley uses "boorish" and now you use "ne'er-do-wells"

Great stuff guys and I am going to attempt to get these into at least one conversation today.

Just wait for azania to turn up, Tino.

You'll have ample reason to use both terms.

HumanWindmill wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Bamber this is brilliant, Rowley uses "boorish" and now you use "ne'er-do-wells"

Great stuff guys and I am going to attempt to get these into at least one conversation today.

Just wait for azania to turn up, Tino.

You'll have ample reason to use both terms.

Windy, I have to confess, I tried to goad Az last night about Hide beating Jeffries but to his credit, he refused to bite!

Does that make me an official WUM now?

RJJ gets obliterated by every top 25 LHW.

End of.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Bamber this is brilliant, Rowley uses "boorish" and now you use "ne'er-do-wells"

Great stuff guys and I am going to attempt to get these into at least one conversation today.

Just wait for azania to turn up, Tino.

You'll have ample reason to use both terms.

Windy, I have to confess, I tried to goad Az last night about Hide beating Jeffries but to his credit, he refused to bite!

Does that make me an official WUM now?

I'm saying nothing, mate. 8)

coxy0001 wrote:RJJ gets obliterated by every top 25 LHW.

End of.

Morning, coxy.

HumanWindmill wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:RJJ gets obliterated by every top 25 LHW.

End of.

Morning, coxy.

Not sure what time of the day it is to be honest

Mind the windows Tino. wrote: Bamber this is brilliant, Rowley uses "boorish" and now you use "ne'er-do-wells"

Great stuff guys and I am going to attempt to get these into at least one conversation today.

I like it. "Purview" is a good one. Always try and use it poker faced at least once a year.

coxy0001 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:RJJ gets obliterated by every top 25 LHW.

End of.

Morning, coxy.

Not sure what time of the day it is to be honest

There's a surprise !

HumanWindmill wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:RJJ gets obliterated by every top 25 LHW.

End of.

Morning, coxy.

Not sure what time of the day it is to be honest

There's a surprise !

Was playing cricket against a few of current/ex premiership rugger players yesterday in a charity match. Free beer + massive drinkers = save me

fearlessBamber wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote: Bamber this is brilliant, Rowley uses "boorish" and now you use "ne'er-do-wells"

Great stuff guys and I am going to attempt to get these into at least one conversation today.

I like it. "Purview" is a good one. Always try and use it poker faced at least once a year.

Classic. I can honestly say I don't think I have ever used purview in my life. Not sure whether that says more about me or you!

General concensus seems to be that Moore catches up with Jones late to stop him having spent the early part of the fight getting to grips with his style.

Just wondering if people feel that if Moore cant find the knock out does he lose on points?

Also, Moore was no stranger to visiting the canvass early in his fights. What chances to people give Jones of securing his own knock out win. Especially early on before Moore gets to grip with him?

manos de piedra wrote:General concensus seems to be that Moore catches up with Jones late to stop him having spent the early part of the fight getting to grips with his style.

Just wondering if people feel that if Moore cant find the knock out does he lose on points?

Also, Moore was no stranger to visiting the canvass early in his fights. What chances to people give Jones of securing his own knock out win. Especially early on before Moore gets to grip with him?

Manos, he has a chance for sure. The Durelle fight shows how badly Archie can be hurt, although it also shows his heart and powers of recovery. If RJJ did catch him and hurt him, I would still fancy Moore to work out, pretty quickly, how to negate whatever was coming his way and catch up with Jones. When he does catch up, I can't see Jones recovering in the same way Moore did/would. Just my opinion though.

I don't believe Jones carried the devastating power at 175lb. to keep Archie down, manos. Even Marciano had to unload a fair bit of leather to put Archie away.

With Jones' blinding speed he'd always have a chance to nick a points win, but I believe that Archie by stoppage is the percentage call.

I would probably favour Moore to win on points if hes going to win.

I think Jones at his best was too hard to hit consistently. Theres a chance Moore catches him with a KO shot but I think Jones stlye was too slippery overall to make this the more favoured outcome, and he was to quick and unorthodox to be able to figure out effectively. I think Moore would have to go down the kind of Hopkins nullifier route to try and dictate control of the bout and negate Jones strengths. I think this favours a points result.

If there was to be a KO, I would tend to think Jones would get it early to mid rounds before Moore really settles into a rythm or gets to grip with his style. Could be argued that Jones might not have the single shot power at LH to KO Moore cold but if Moore cant get to grips then he could force a TKO stoppage.

Moore every day of the week. To wiley for Jones

I find it interesting that people choose Moore to win via KO in the late rounds saying that he would have figured Jones out and he was too crafty, wiley etc. I doubt that very much. Moore didn't have the style imo to outsmart or beat such an unorthodox fighter like Jones.

To beat RJJ imo, you need a tremendous jab and work off that. Moore whilst great was not the best jabber in the mould of a Bob Foster. You also need a viscious right which Moore had but it was more of a hook than a straight right.

Someone like Hearns (if he had a chin) would beat RJJ and I would favour Bob Foster over Jones because he threw straight punches.

I wont be baited or goaded...........yet.