Should Argentina be dropped from the Rugby Championship?

Genuine question, I fail to see what Argentina brings to this competition, in 3 seasons they've only managed 1 draw (although they've come close to winning on occasion). I don't believe they are the darlings of the 2007 world cup any more, they've had their chance to prove they are on this level with the big 3 but so far have been unconvincing.

Do SH fans believe that the extra travel and expense is worth having Argentina in the competition?

It's a toughie. I think maybe the 3N was too big an immediate jump. Maybe they should started with something smaller like the 6N? I joke I joke... On a serious note... no I like having Argentina in the comp. They actually played well yesterday, for large periods of time, but down South, transition play is the word. think they just can't get too grips with the pace of the game here, and it's not gonna happen unless they start playing some Super Rugger. Once the conditions slow the game down, they are definitely on par, as they've shown in the wet, which is why I completely expect them to spring a few suprises next year. If you can call a team with back to back WC QFS + a surprise. Hernández is basically god, Monterrey is a rising star, their pack is big, and they can run anyone ragged now (they seemed to cut through NZ at will from five metres off their own try lines. Which is amazing progression from a team which used to kick first). So in short, I expect them to do well again in the WC, but they aren't gonna get close in Rugby Championship until they start playing more games at SH pace.

No, of course they shouldn't be dropped. No-one is saying should Scotland or Italy stop getting test matches against Tri-Nations sides and they've done even worse than Argentina in those fixtures.

Scotland actually beat South Africa in 2009..., Wales last beat Sanzar in....

I think the should be dropped over the laser pointers blinding the kickers,noticed again last night a few times, also they are quite petulant with off the ball stuff which has no place i a pro sport for families to watch.

If anything Argentina help ease the travel schedule or at least make it fairer for all sides particularly SA, who previously had it rough with just Oz and NZ in the comp.

Argentina bring a set piece game plan similar to what you see in the NH. That's great to be able to measure yourself against such a great scrumming team. That alone makes their inclusion worthwhile especially for teams like Australia who struggle in that department. NZ looked a little shaky in the scrum last year and I'm sure the prospect of playing Argentina in the NZ winter makes them step up in that regard.

Argentina look to be developing more of a running, offload game that was not there in the 2007 RWC. They make a lot of mistakes but there were movements of beauty last night from Los Pumas that I just had to sit back and admire.

Wait until they have a Super rugby franchise. Then they can look to extricate their players from Europe and start building up a base of professional players at home who are coordinated for the SH season.

So in answer to your question, hell no.

No its good. They'll win one soon enough.

kingraf wrote:Scotland actually beat South Africa in 2009..., Wales last beat Sanzar in....

*we beat South Africa in 2010. Also beat Australia on home soil in 2012)

You beat us in 2010? That is interesting... Should notify everyone always moaning about your only win vs us coming at the Millennium Stadium in 1999 then. Fair dos about Australia though, musta missed that game.

Glove means we as in Scotland

Yeah just saw his location when I switched to desktop view on the mobile. I thought his asterisk was related to the second part of my original statement.

Which wasn't really a snipe at Wales, but more that you can't justify kick out Argentina after three years because they can't beat Sanzar, but allow Wales and Co, three or four cracks a year despite the lop sided recent record.

Argentina brings a lot to the RC, they bring their first choice players, it is one of the few times when they manage to put together a team for an extended period of time.

In my opinion their results at this point matters less than the exposure they get by playing the top three countries in the world.

Imagine what any Six Nations team would benefit from playing six consecutive tests against them?

Soon they will be part of Super rugby that will provide them an opportunity to put together a top team that will largely consist out of internatioanl players and it will be competitive.

I like what they bring to the competition and they should just continue to improve.

How do people who want to see their expulsion see things playing out? Should the North take them in the Six Nations? That would make a Super Rugby franchise a terrible idea.

cakeordeath wrote:Glove means we as in Scotland

Yep, should probably have made that clearer!

Speaking of referring to a team as 'we', reminds me of this brilliant sketch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN1WN0YMWZU

France had to wait 20+ years for their first shared title and even longer for their first full title in the 5Ns.

They are putting in some good performances, almost beat the boks again this year. I think had anyone bar ENG or FRA been in ARG position the results would have been the same.... maybe Ireland would have got a home win vs. AUS.

Have Argentina got a full professional league yet ? They really need this to happen, they cannot keep relying on their players being dotted all around Europe, Argentina should have all the structures in place first, a full pro league, then a franchise or two in super rugby, only then will they start to improve, and if they do get this ALL of us can look out.

set for 2016 I think on the SR expansion

fa0019 wrote:set for 2016 I think on the SR expansion

Do you know where they are basing them ? I know Tucuman and Patagonia are rugby strongholds, but no doubt it will be Buenos Aires based side. How many franchises will they get ?

Think its one not sure where it will be based but BA sounds logical. Population and location wise. Question if they can get 10-20k regular fans going to matches though and if the top players are willing to return to Argentina.

Italy should fear this the most.... no more youngsters moving their aged 18/19 and with Italian heritage getting capped.

fa0019 wrote:Think its one not sure where it will be based but BA sounds logical. Population and location wise. Question if they can get 10-20k regular fans going to matches though and if the top players are willing to return to Argentina.

Italy should fear this the most.... no more youngsters moving their aged 18/19 and with Italian heritage getting capped.

The trouble with Buenos Aires is that it is a fanatical football stronghold, rugby really does take a second place, it almost does not exist there. How many RC games have Argentina played their ? Not many to my knowledge.

Give them another few years at least. Even when losing at least they bring something new to the competition. The tri nations was getting very dull by having the same 3 teams play each other over and over.

Argentina come back from 14-0 down to beat the Wallabies, 21-17! They are here to stay!

Yeah, great win, but the lasers need to go. It's hooligan behaviour.

kingraf wrote:Yeah, great win, but the lasers need to go. It's hooligan behaviour.

Ja, they should really ban those things.

Just glad it is not us that lost the first one to the Pumas, certainly looked like it might have been. What will this do to the rankings? I assume Argentina is going to get a big jump in the ranking order.

Just saw that they max they can get out of that is 2 ranking points, so they will move to 10th then

Always thought a tournament with them Samoa, Tonga and Fiji at full strength would have been more appropriate but good on them to get their first win.

The thing is there is always a settling in period, France were awful when they first joined to make it the 5 Nations, Italy have been terrible over the years and whilst I don't think they will ever win it they will always be competitive and will win games.

Argentina will take huge amounts from this and again whilst I don't think they will ever win it teams won't get an easy run out there. Not letting teams move up to next level available to them is bad for the game IMO.

Argentina should be made to play their next home game behind closed doors, this is not the first incident we have here'd regarding Argentina and lazer pens, this really takes the shine off a historic win, and the fans should be ashamed of themselves.

I'm just watching the game back. The Foley penalty should have been re-taken. And fair play to Foley for his reaction of publicly dismissing the excuse which was on offer to him and playing the incident down. True class from him in defeat.

I really, really hope the UAR are pro-active in identifying the culprit and if they can't do that, putting the proper security measures in place to make sure items like lasers can't be smuggled into the ground- which is, admittedly, difficult but actions have to be taken to prevent this.

However.

The actions of the individual with the laser should not be used to detract from the outstanding team spirit and hard work Argentina have shown. The character they have to get beaten in every game and still have confidence and belief to trouble any side every week is astounding. They never let their heads drop, no matter the odds, no matter the opponents. That, to me, is brilliant. There's a great deal of heart making up for a gap in standards and that's why they are the best thing to happen to the tournament now known as the Rugby Championship in years. It used to be brilliant in terms of quality- and oh so boring. Teams playing each other up to three times a a season will always lose its lustre no matter how good the teams are. Argentina have brought something new to the table, something a little unpredictable.

We in the NH would do well to recognise that when the topic of expanding the Six Nations comes up again. Cosy cartels may be profitable but they are also stale and a little boring... once some initial mismatches are out of the way, the rugby world can only gain from inviting more teams to dine at the top table.

Simple - all Argentina home games must be played in empty stadiums until home fans behave.

That'll stop it pretty quickly.

Classic contribution from the Argentinean tenor

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/2014/oct/05/wallabies-laugh-argentinian-tenor-national-anthem-video

Learning the words always a good shout when you're picked to sing an anthem! To be fair, he probably just had a mental blank or stage fright or something...

kingraf wrote:Scotland actually beat South Africa in 2009..., Wales last beat Sanzar in....

not including Argentina? Last was 2008. Ozzies were gifted a game last season with a dodgy redding decision by Wayne Barnes mistakenly awarding a fwd pass...

Yes, not including the Argies. South Africa New Zealand Australia Rugby. Can't remember the Wales Australia game, though I did watch it. Was it the one with the inertia try? If so, don't think there was anything mistaken about it. He just didn't interpret it as you would have liked.

kingraf wrote:Yes, not including the Argies. South Africa New Zealand Australia Rugby. Can't remember the Wales Australia game, though I did watch it. Was it the one with the inertia try? If so, don't think there was anything mistaken about it. He just didn't interpret it as you would have liked.

BS it was five metres forward...! TMO said the same.

Inertia my arse, you'd think he was running at forty mph to he five metres inertia.. Read some physics mate.

if the TMO said it was 5 metres forward why was it given?

hands were going back?

Just watched the video on youtube. It was barely 2ft forward.

However the hands were back/level and his forward momentum makes it seem plausible.

Its harsh but its the modern rules. If the hands are back then its not a forward pass.

So TMO said "ball has moved five metres forward. You may award the try"?

kingraf wrote:So TMO said "ball has moved five metres forward. You may award the try"?

King

Just watched it on youtube. It was the 26-30 match. Try scored in the 45 mins or something. It went barely 2 ft forward.... 0.60m not 5m. But the hands were back so on the letter of the law due to forward moment its legal.

And it wasn't a try in the death either. There were 35 mins left and AUS were ahead by 4 at the time.

Cheers Fa. I'll have a look when I get home, but a TMO awarding a try five metres forward did sound quite questionable.

kingraf wrote:Cheers Fa. I'll have a look when I get home, but a TMO awarding a try five metres forward did sound quite questionable.

A steve Walsh special no doubt.... you dare me to give it???