Ian Madigan

asoreleftshoulder wrote:3. You repeat what?I have no idea what you are talking about here.

SecretFly wrote:
It makes perfect sense...and perfect logic.  It certainly makes more logic than everyone here saying Madigan is at best 3rd choice at International after Sexton and Jackson - and yet was to be 1st choice 10 at Leinster. And that's all under Schmidt!  So keep that bit in mind.  With Ireland, Madigan has proven to be at best 3rd choice overall as 10 under Schmidt.

Now, back to Leinster.  Schmidt was the ambitous and driven coach of Leinster - didn't want to come to Leinster at all unless the players genuinely wanted to listen to him, do as he says and work hard to succeed.  This is a coach that didn't want even second best for his team, let alone 3rd best.  We still agree?

Yet here are some saying that Schmidt could look around him, see that Sexton was his best option but leaving, see that Jackson is his second Irish based option but taken... look around him even more to Europe and the SH....and still come to the conclusion that Madigan was his best option to keep for his ambitious Leinster and that he'd get in a guy called Gopperth to do a back-up roll?  

So Gopperth under those conditions was even below Madigan as 10 - who was below Jackson, who was below Sexton and any number of European and SH options?  I'm saying that suggests Schmidt was willing to see Leinster lose ground in Europe.
I'm countering that by saying Gopperth did in his first year what Schmidt already had planned for him in the beginning - that is play well enough to be first choice 10.  Others seem to say Gopperth was a Schmidt second thought, I'm suggesting he wasn't..he was central to Schmidt's plans for keeping Leinster on top.

That's clear.  It's not confusing.  Madigan was to be Schmidt's seond choice Leinster 10 and became Ireland's third.

SecretFly wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:3. You repeat what?I have no idea what you are talking about here.

Of course you don't have a clue what I'm talking about...that's always your problem with me, asore

You ask me who did Schmidt have ahead of Madigan?  I'm saying it repeatedly.  I think he had Gopperth set out for the roll above Madigan.  You disagree of course but that doesn't change my opinion or make it less easy to understand.  It's simple.  Madigan wasn't to be Schmidt's number 1 - Gopperth was to be in that role.  My opinion.  You don't share it.

But I know, agree with Sin in these parts and you instantly catch fleas.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sorry but that's completely nonsensical.Schmidt also signed Mike McCarthy for Leinster despite looking around and realising that PoC and Henderson were better Irish options,never mind looking abroad.Sometimes a coach has to just take what he can get.

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:but judging from last years 6nations there is very little between jackson and madigan as madigan was the back up for the last match, irelands cup final if you like.

SecretFly wrote:

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:

SecretFly wrote:What are you meaning asoreleftshoulder?  Are you telling me Schmidt didn't have Jackson, couldn't get Jackson or Jackson is irrelevant to the whole discussion?

Let's rephrase it for you then.  He didn't have Jackson - who you and others think is better than Madigan?  So that suggests Schmidt knew Madigan was number 3 choice at best...for Leinster... the team with high ambitions?

I repeat, that's my problem with the theory that Madigan was Schmidt's first choice 10 and Gopperth was only back-up.  I suggest Gopperth was to be his considered first choice 10 and that Schmidt considered Gopperth certainly the equal to, if not better, than Jackson.

Back to Madigan as not first choice 10 even in Schmidt's Leinster and subsequently only his thrid choice 10 in Ireland.

that makes no sense at all?

so it is your opinion that Schimdt (assuming it was Schmidt who decided to sign him. do coaches in ireland decide what players to sign???) signed gopperth as the first choice 10 for leinster. how is madigan then 3rd choice. who else is ahead of him in Leinster for the 10 jersey.

It makes perfect sense...and perfect logic.  It certainly makes more logic than everyone here saying Madigan is at best 3rd choice at International after Sexton and Jackson - and yet was to be 1st choice 10 at Leinster. And that's all under Schmidt!  So keep that bit in mind.  With Ireland, Madigan has proven to be at best 3rd choice overall as 10 under Schmidt.

Now, back to Leinster.  Schmidt was the ambitous and driven coach of Leinster - didn't want to come to Leinster at all unless the players genuinely wanted to listen to him, do as he says and work hard to succeed.  This is a coach that didn't want even second best for his team, let alone 3rd best.  We still agree?

Yet here are some saying that Schmidt could look around him, see that Sexton was his best option but leaving, see that Jackson is his second Irish based option but taken... look around him even more to Europe and the SH....and still come to the conclusion that Madigan was his best option to keep for his ambitious Leinster and that he'd get in a guy called Gopperth to do a back-up roll?  

So Gopperth under those conditions was even below Madigan as 10 - who was below Jackson, who was below Sexton and any number of European and SH options?  I'm saying that suggests Schmidt was willing to see Leinster lose ground in Europe.
I'm countering that by saying Gopperth did in his first year what Schmidt already had planned for him in the beginning - that is play well enough to be first choice 10.  Others seem to say Gopperth was a Schmidt second thought, I'm suggesting he wasn't..he was central to Schmidt's plans for keeping Leinster on top.

That's clear.  It's not confusing.  Madigan was to be Schmidt's seond choice Leinster 10 and became Ireland's third.

SecretFly wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Sorry but that's completely nonsensical.Schmidt also signed Mike McCarthy for Leinster despite looking around and realising that PoC and Henderson were better Irish options,never mind looking abroad.Sometimes a coach has to just take what he can get.

It's not nonsensical...you don't share the view but it's NOT nonsensical.  So quit trying to kill the theory by throwing the exclamatory 'nonsensical!!!' boot at it.  That might work on sin for a while but not me.  I know what I'm saying and you simply don't want to admit that it's as reasonable of what transpired as yours. To do so would be to inadvertently give Sin an inch...and that's beyond you

Golden wrote:


So your saying that he realised Sexton and Jackson werent available (how did Jackson been at leinster come into this at all??), that madigan wasnt good enough and the best available ten in the world to keep Leinster on top, was Gopperth?

Surely far more likely that he saw Madigan was having an excellent season under him and decided he needed another ten to compete (not necessarily be 2nd choice) because the next in line Marsh was far too inexperienced.

Anyway dont think it matters to the discussion on Madigans best position. The fact is Leinster need Madigan at ten at this moment because Gopperth isnt playing well. However the injuries at centre mean that hes been pushed out to 12 where he can play well. When Sexton comes back I think Madigan will again play 12 as we don't have the greatest midfield options.