Ian Madigan

I've just been watching the highlights of Leinster v Treviso again and decided to start this thread discussing the young outhalf from Leinster,his prospects at club and international level.

Madigan has proven himself far quicker than I would have thought possible,he benefitted from an injury to Matt Berquist but has grabbed his opportunity with both hands and has now started regularly in the Rabo and has got decent gametime in the HC.

This season he has a try scoring record that a winger would be proud of and his passing is phenomenal,he can fire quick flat passes over nearly half the width of the pitch which allied to his running game is a deadly combination,defend narrow and he can put his wingers into space,defend wide and he can find a gap himself.

The only question marks I can see is over his kicking game,from hand he seems to have a good boot but time will tell how effective he is.He is 4th choice kicker at Leinster so needs more experience of kicking under big game conditions but from the little I've seen it shouldn' be a problem.

Anyway what are others opinions of him and how far do you think he could go in the game?

He has a good step, very good pass (of both sides), deceptive acceleration when he spots a gap and holds his own in the defensive line.

He is 4th choice kicker for Leinster but only because schmidt sees option 1-2-3 as being most likely to on the field in the big game situations. He has a powerful leg and his range is usually along the half way line (between the 15m markers). I like how Joe organises the kicking duties, there is a clear order to it and while I haven't seen the stats each kicker tends to be quite accurate.

I don't know if he controls his games much yet, Boss tends to run the show when they are paired. It is probably the next part of his game to develop.

The lad is 22 and is doing brilliantly with Leinster at the moment.

I was very disappointed he didn't get to start the Wolfhounds game as it may have exposed and developed him more.

He is a very innate footballer IMO and this year has made very few actual errors (knocks on, kicks out on full, missed tackles etc) his basics are very good and added to that he is physically very impressive. His pace, acceleration and agility are all excellent and it creates space for others in the same way that Cipriani used to be able to. More importantly he recognises the space and can execute many passes to exploit the space.

Agree would like to see him on an absolute mare of a day condition-wise rain wind etc and see how he deals with game management.

I'd like to see him under pressure more. A lot of the games he's played in, Leinster have dominated. It's hard to judge him on that basis.

I think he's a very promising player for us, hope to see him in the bigger games.

It was really nice to see him get a HCup start against Montpellier who are not a bad team nor send out a bad lineout.

I agree though the strength in depth of the Leinster pack means he can have it easy at times, wonder what his mental strength is like.

I can see him making the Irish bench before Keatley does from here on.

It's his passing that impresses me the most. It's superb.

Pete, you hit on an interesting point there, progressing into the Irish setup. He is behind Sexton, Keatley is behind ROG. ROG is older and, barring injury, will retire first. That would put Keatley (with HC and big game experience) ahead of Madigan by my reckoning. This is 2-3 years down the line and both are still learning their craft. But from an Irish point of view, Madigan might be too good to be on the bench for big leinster games at that stage and it could be worthwhile seeing if somewhere like Harlequins (what age will Evans be in 2 years). As a Leinster supporter I don't want to see it happen but for the benefit of Ireland, being stuck behind a Sexton entering his prime years will stunt his development after next season.

A bit slow on the uptake ASLS for a leinster supporter. Noted him at the end of last season and been watching him closely this year. He is an excellent prospect, has scored 7 tries this year already. I have him down to be in the Irish squad by next year and possibly pushing sexhead for his spot. I actually think he is better than sexhead already.

Anyhow what do you think of his Pace, would you think he was as fast as sexton who we all know has phenomenal pace except that we have to see it first

He may have to move on yeah. maybe ulster wud take him in year r 2. Obviously wud prefer to hold on to him

DOD - better than Sexton? By extension that would make him better than ROG too...

He's good, he's very good and hopefully some day he'll play at international level. At the moment he's not place kicking so that's holding him back but he's only 22, plenty of time to improve on that. This season the 3 kickers ahead of him are all 80% plus off the tee (Nacewa 80%, Sexton 83%, McFadden 90%!!).

Well Mickado with ROG coming to the end of his career if you gave me a choice of Madigan or Sexton now I would take Madigan everytime.

Interesting stats on the kickers but given Madigan isn't kicking they only tell how the others are doing. Saw Madigan kick a conversion last weekend and he nailed it

Why this obsession with having the 10 being the place kicker? I dont get it. Surely Ireland should be looking at more options for place kickers than just the 10? Madigan is 4th choice kicker because Leinster have developed other kickers as well. For far too long Ireland have had game plans revolving around place kicking. Wales have relieved Priestland of his kicking duties and he is a better player for it in my opinion.

Madigan isnt a bad place kicker but that should certainly not be holding him back from being introduced to the Irish setup, yes over Keatley too.

It means that he can really only be played with Fergus McFadden so that is a handicap for him. But he is a super player. He must learn to kick though as it could hurt him in time. Unless Leinster and Ireland play both Section and Madigan at 12 and 10 respectively.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:He may have to move on yeah. maybe ulster wud take him in year r 2. Obviously wud prefer to hold on to him

Depends how Jackson and McKinney develop to be honest.
In 2 years our 10 will have to be a place kicker if Pienaer is forced to leave by the new rules.

Color Murray also is a good kicker but with Rog in the team is unlikely to ever get real chance to do so.

Madigan looks like a class act. Its a pity he wasn't jettisoned into the Ireland bench ahead of ROG, who on current form has very little to offer at the top level any more other than place kicking.

Rodders, I think the media and fans have completely blown this whole Sexton v ROG thing out of control.

The idea is that Sexton can make a break at times but can't kick his way out of a paper bag while ROG's only function is kicking drop goals and penalties.

Both are actually better all round players than given credit for. Madigan should have been 3rd choice flyhalf for this 6 Nations and given the Wolfhounds match.

I just think that its a shame he will be seent as being held back due to his place kicking ability.

Maybe swap him and Keatley so that ROG can teach him how to place kick.....


Waiting for wrath of Gibbo.

DOD wrote:Well Mickado with ROG coming to the end of his career if you gave me a choice of Madigan or Sexton now I would take Madigan everytime.

Interesting stats on the kickers but given Madigan isn't kicking they only tell how the others are doing. Saw Madigan kick a conversion last weekend and he nailed it

I can't be sure DOD, but I don't think Madigan has missed more than 1 or 2 all season. He can kick them, he does it in the warm ups. I've seen him slot them over from inside his own half. But i suppose Schmidt's plan was to expose him to a lot of gametime but not give him the kicking duty, let him settle into his role without overpowering him with responsibility that he doesn't need at this stage.

Stag I don't think so. I think Sexton is an exceptional fly half and ROG was an exceptional fly half.

There is no comparison any more. ROG is too slow, too weak, too predictable, stands too deep, hasn't got the kicking range he once had, can't tackle and has very questionable descision making.

In reality he's not much better than Dan Parks these days in terms of his play with ball in hand.

Sexton can't seem to deal with the pressure of place kicking at international level and ROG is clearly mentally stronger in that respect but Sexton still offers much more.

This is about Madigan though and I think he offers much more than ROG these days.

Eire, it is a shame but someone has to take the kicks.

If we picked a backline of:

09 Eoin Reddan
10 Ian Madigan
11 Andrew Trimble
12 Gordon Darcy
13 Keith Earls
14 Tommy Bowe
15 Rob Kearney

we don't have any kicker. McFadden can kick but in reality is 3rd choice at Leinster behind Sexton and Nacewa (who I personally think is the best kicker at Leinster).

However as Mick is alluding to I think Madigan will get there in time. Had we a really top class kicker elsewhere like Wales do with Halfpenny at 15, then yes. But in the immediate short term it will hold him back.

Actually ignore my previous post, I'm not being fair to ROG there ......

roddersm wrote:This is about Madigan though and I think he offers much more than ROG these days.

It is about Madigan and no he doesn't offer more than ROG just yet. He will in time, maybe in 12 months time. But ROG has experience, he has the coolest head I have ever seen in relation to kicking - when has he ever missed a last minute penalty or drop goal to lose a match? Now think has he ever scored a last minute drop goal or penalty to win a match? I can think of plenty of things. He is a great bench player and is actually playing quite well for Munster. I am not digging up old wounds but I believe we would have beaten Wales had he started the game. The conditions of the match and our game plan suited him.

Madigan has a serious skill set and has a lot of things that ROG doesn't have and never did. But for right now this Six Nations not a bloody chance.

Stag, I think you underestimate McFadden’s place kicking. He’s kicked 30 conversions/penalties this season and only missed 2. That’s pretty good going.

roddersm wrote:Stag I don't think so. I think Sexton is an exceptional fly half and ROG was an exceptional fly half.

There is no comparison any more. ROG is too slow, too weak, too predictable, stands too deep, hasn't got the kicking range he once had, can't tackle and has very questionable descision making.

In reality he's not much better than Dan Parks these days in terms of his play with ball in hand.

Sexton can't seem to deal with the pressure of place kicking at international level and ROG is clearly mentally stronger in that respect but Sexton still offers much more.

This is about Madigan though and I think he offers much more than ROG these days.

Rodders back on form...

There is no comparison any more. ROG is too slow, too weak, too predictable, stands too deep, hasn't got the kicking range he once had, can't tackle and has very questionable descision making. I thought you were talking about Sexton there especially the too predictable and decision making.

As usual you are talking boll.x with a completely clueless opinionated and poor arguement (if you could call it that). Go watch the Northampton game young man (both the home and away ones) and then come back and apologise....

Also this is about Madigan so why bring up the usual tripe.....

red_stag wrote:Eire, it is a shame but someone has to take the kicks.

If we picked a backline of:

09 Eoin Reddan
10 Ian Madigan
11 Andrew Trimble
12 Gordon Darcy JJ Hanrahan?
13 Keith Earls
14 Tommy Bowe
15 Rob Kearney

we don't have any kicker. McFadden can kick but in reality is 3rd choice at Leinster behind Sexton and Nacewa (who I personally think is the best kicker at Leinster).

However as Mick is alluding to I think Madigan will get there in time. Had we a really top class kicker elsewhere like Wales do with Halfpenny at 15, then yes. But in the immediate short term it will hold him back.

That is a line up i would like to see tried on the tour. Just because Madigan is fourth choice does not mean he cant place kick, he can. He just doesnt get the chances.

Too late Rodders replied to before I saw.

Anyway we can all agree. Madigan is shoite hot and is a real talent and a future international.

Mickado wrote:Stag, I think you underestimate McFadden’s place kicking. He’s kicked 30 conversions/penalties this season and only missed 2. That’s pretty good going.

Not sure I do? I said that if McFadden is starting in the team no fears re:Madigan as Fergus is a good kicker. However he is behind both Nacewa and Sexton in the pecking order from what I can see.

DOD ....yeah sorry I'm not a morning person....ROG is a great player .....I'd still drop him for Madigan though....

He’s not though. he’s only behind Sexton. The kicking pecking order is very clearly defined as Sexton – McFadden – Nacewa – Madigan.
Have a look, Nacewa only kicks when McFAdden isn’t playing.

Mickado - I have enough faith in McFadden to have him kick for Ireland with Madigan at 10. Thats my point.

Madigan must get games on the tour otherwise we will have lost another great opportunity. He is an exciting prospect and I believe Schmidt protecting him (with regard to kicking) can be good for his development and confidence.

Agree with all of that Rava.

10 starts this season alone, and not 23 until next month. Last season most Leinster fans would have thought Ian McKinley was a much better prospect, hopefully he can keep it up and challenge Sexton. It will be very interesting to see if he’s used as an impact sub in the HC knockout stages…

23 isn't actually that young though Mick. Look at Priestland, he's a comparable age and can't place kick for toffee but has become the lynch pin for Wales and is pivotal to their game plan.

If Madigan has the talent then there's no point holding him back another season or two, he should be thrown in the deep end.

People may argue that he's behind Sexton for Leinster but Priestland hadn't fully ousted Stephen Jones at the Scarlets when Gatland made him first choice.

What are you suggesting we do with him Rodders? Start him in HC matches ahead of Sexton or bring him into the 6nations squad?

Ireland don’t fast track players the way Wales do. We have a successful club game and it’s the testing ground for young talent.

I suggest that he start quite a few games on the tour to see how he goes. This 6N is too late for him but i can see him coming on to replace Sexton in the HC, depending on the circumstances.

I am a big fan of Sexton but my biggest gripe with him is that he does not do rotation too well. When he feels pressured for his position he has off games. Maybe Madigan would be better off at another club?

I think Declan Kidney's thinking was really exposed on Friday when Sexton had a tight quad instead of bringing in Madigan or Keatley he brought in Wallace.

Granted Madigan had played on Thursday night so it can be excused but would he really have contemplated it even.

Hope Madigan gets the full BaaBaa's match.
Disappointed we aren't playing mid week games he could have been exposed there and been the better for it.

The lad is going to be something special I feel. Hope the Irish setup doesn't smoother him.

Mickado wrote:What are you suggesting we do with him Rodders? Start him in HC matches ahead of Sexton or bring him into the 6nations squad?

Ireland don’t fast track players the way Wales do. We have a successful club game and it’s the testing ground for young talent.

Probably just throw him on to the bench against France Mick. If he does well in the 6N and the remainder of the season then start him in at least one test against the AB's.

It's up to Leinster who they start but from an Ireland perspective we can't afford to wrap talented players in key position in cotton wool until they are 25. Throw him in there and let him play his game, that will show us what he's made of.

I wouldn't play him now but I do agree with giving him the BaaBaas match.

I woull play McAllister, Tuohy, O'Mahoney, Cave/Spence, Zebo in that game as well.

That game is very important now due to the lack of midweek matches in NZ.

I'd agree with the lads you've mentioned there Geoff, just a shot from the hip selection but

McAllister-Cronin-Hagan
Tuohy-Ryan
Ruddock-Heaslip (c)-O'Mahony
Boss-Madigan
McFadden-Cave
Gilroy-Jones-D.Kearney

Buckley-Varley-Toner-Henry-Marshall-Wallace-Zebo

For the Barbarians match to me it is vital we play:

At least one new prop (Archer, Hagan, Andress or McAllister).

None of O'Callaghan, O'Connell nor Ryan at second row.

Paul Marshall at scrumhalf.

Ian Madigan at flyhalf.

At least one of Zebo or David Kearney.

How come you don't think Ryan deserves a go in this game?

I think balancing experience with new talent is going to be important too but understand what you are saying. Would like to partner Mads with a 9 he knows to start.

I know that there could be guys coming back from injury who require game time too.

DOD wrote:

Anyhow what do you think of his Pace, would you think he was as fast as sexton who we all know has phenomenal pace except that we have to see it first

Lol you write this then have the cheek to tell Rodders "Also this is about Madigan so why bring up the usual tripe....."

You are such a hypocrite.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:How come you don't think Ryan deserves a go in this game?

I think balancing experience with new talent is going to be important too but understand what you are saying. Would like to partner Mads with a 9 he knows to start.

I know that there could be guys coming back from injury who require game time too.

I'd say it's because Ryan should be starting,we know he's good enough so lets give Toner and Tuohy (or whoevers on form)a match at international level.

Pete - to me we have Toner and Tuohy who need to play as we require a stand out extra choice second row. I'd actually have a "tweener" like McCarthy, McLaughlin or acutally Ryan on the bench for the game.

Balancing new faces with experience is vital.

Obviously things change in the meantime but I'd be looking at:

01 Tom Court
02 Sean Cronin
03 Jamie Hagan
04 Devin Toner
05 Dan Tuohy
06 Peter O'Mahony
07 David Wallace
08 Rhys Ruddock
09 Paul Marshall
10 Ian Madigan
11 Simon Zebo
12 Fergus McFadden
13 Darren Cave
14 David Kearney
15 Felix Jones

16 Damien Varley
17 Paddy McAllister
18 Donnacha Ryan
19 Chris Henry
20 Tomas O'Leary
21 Ian Keatley
22 Craig Gilroy

Either Dan Tuohy or Peter O'Mahony to captain.

Ok that's fair enough. I don't see the point of Ryan on the bench but I get what you are saying about the lock/backrow idea.
Court is probably a good call along with a proper newbie Tighthead.

Were people impressed by how Madigan played against Montpellier the last game of the HCup pool stages? Bear in mind they put out pretty close to a full team. He got the full 80 I think.

I like the look of that side stag

You cant play Toner and Tuohy together not enough grunt at the breakdown.
Also Tuohy is never a captain.

I deliberately only picked 6 new faces, to make it wholesale would, imv be a big mistake. We need a balance

I would prefer something like:
McAllister, Cronin, Ross, Tuohy, Ryan, SOB, Heaslip, O'Mahoney, Murray, Madigan, Zebo, McFadden, Cave, Earls, Kearney

No problems with that team at all Geoff. Its much of a muchness for me.

Some fans get absolutely livid when Kidney picks 13 players they want and 2 they don't like.

To me once the bulk of the team is forward looking the BaaBaas selection should be fine.