Congratulations Leinster

First topic message reminder :

I had high hopes for a Wasps win after that first half but credit to Leinster. They pressured Wasps in that second half. I was disappointed with Simpson's box kicking; it has cost us in the past, and did so again tonight.

You only need to give teams like Leinster a sniff and they'll take it, which they did.

Obviously I was hoping Wasps could kick on from the first half. But Leinster nilled us in the second half and ratcheted up the pressure.

Well done Leinster - a deserved win when all's said and done. A losing bp for us at the RDS is possibly a bonus.

The pool is wide open.

Well done to both teams for an enjoyable game.

And Leinster are smart in closing it out and attack. They win a penalty - it's kickable.

Wow - the ref puts Madigan under time pressure for the kick. Ten seconds he calls as Madigan lines it up. And over it goes.

16-21 to Leinster.

Cool heads time.

wow. some big calls by gardner in the last 10 minutes. missed scrum collapse, offside, and that last being a no-arms tackle?

and Heaslip does the honours in kicking it out as the clock runs out.

Well done Leinster, but Castres will be kicking themselves - they had the winning of this match.

well played in the end leinster. wiser heads and not panicking.

Castres won't be happy about the ref, but they have only themselves to blame, playing way too much rugby in the wrong areas of the pitch in the final 20, when simply kicking long and asking Leinster to attack from deep inside their own half would surely have been a more sensible approach.

A lot of RELIEF results for Leinster this season.

The ability to do enough is probably very important to a badly misfiring side but tons of improvement needed... not just in personel!!!! O'Connor and his coaches need ideas - fresh ones to actually make opponents think.

Leinster will not be troubling the best sides this year. Playing like a mid-table Aviva Premiership side once again. Is this the last season of MOC's contract?

Irish provinces definitely on the back foot in the H Cup this season. Ulster losing their way completely. Leinster and Munster both getting lucky wins on the road, and Connacht rueing their squad change after getting hammered by Exeter yesterday.

Wouldn't be surprising to see no Irish teams in the quarter-finals in the H Cup or the Challenge Cup.

Expect that will mean Castres will throw in the towel for Europe. Quins and Wasps will surely face weaker teams in Castres than Leinster did today. Could be an interesting finish to this group.

Wow castre will be cursing the ref. Leinster should consider themselves VERY fortunate benefiting from critical ref decisions in the last 10 mibs

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:Expect that will mean Castre will throw in the towel for Europe. Quins and Wasps will surely face weaker teams in Castre than Leinster did today. Could be an interesting finish to this group.

Who out of Quins and Wasps will come out on top today?

Either result will make it interesting for Leinster in their double header in December against Quins.

Wasps won't find Castres easy and it may turn out to be honours even in the double.

Munster look the likeliest to get through to a QF.  Ulster are............ well the muck up of the Director suddenly upping sticks and leaving has had much more impact than the Ulster fans would probably like to admit.

And Leinster - in no man's land.  O'Connor relying purely on a select few players who probably coaxed him to Leinster in the first place.  How much of Leinster is him and how much is the players?  Well - you find out these things when the mainstay players are missing.  The dynamicism (main side or seconds) has well an truly been sucked from this side for some reason.  Serious heads need to regroup and get to the source - fast

wasps are bookies favourites as they are playing at home.

every match in this group matters, and every tbp and lbp will be very telling.

thumbs up for the new tournament format

Quins why do you always write something that you intend to annoy people with....?

It is so pointless, stop stirring and just comment on rugby.

Is there a TRIP UP emoticon for these runner guys???

maestegmafia wrote:Quins why do you always write something that you intend to annoy people with....?

It is so pointless, stop stirring and just comment on rugby.

Oh he's ok. If you give it you gotta be able to handle it. Like I say, there should be a TRIP UP emoticon though in the interests of Fairness and meritocracy.

2 wins from 2 including away in France with the massive injury list isnt to be sniffed and my god Leinster have been utterly uninspiring.

Hopefully Schmidt can rub some magic off on these players and we get some of the injured players back for the next round.

truth isnt always comfortable

i had to read pages of whining about the new format from dowlais. when we have proof of the improved pool structure on the new top tier tournament i have to shut up in case it offends your sensibilities? as if.

two thumbs up for the new tournament format

Pot Hale wrote:Irish provinces definitely on the back foot in the H Cup this season.   Ulster losing their way completely.  Leinster and Munster both getting lucky wins on the road, and Connacht rueing their squad change after getting hammered by Exeter yesterday.

Wouldn't be surprising to see no Irish teams in the quarter-finals in the H  Cup or the Challenge Cup.

Nah we're going to walk this group if we can get a few of our 1st team back.We might be an average enough side but we're a bit above everyone else in this group even when we're poxed with injuries.

But it's more than injuries asore, isn't it. That's why I say it needs more than just top players back.

do enjoy quinnell's punditry. his delivery is enthusiastic and punchy and he makes good points.

kind of the opposite of healey over on bt sport

quinsforever wrote:truth isnt always comfortable

i had to read pages of whining about the new format from dowlais. when we have proof of the improved pool structure on the new top tier tournament i have to shut up in case it offends your sensibilities? as if.

two thumbs up for the new tournament format    

What proof is that,the format that puts Munster,Sarries and Clermont in the same pool?Top class stuff there alright,the PRL grab to guarantee an AP side a top seed every year even if their teams don't merit it has made a mess of the pool stages.

quinsforever wrote:truth isnt always comfortable

i had to read pages of whining about the new format from dowlais. when we have proof of the improved pool structure on the new top tier tournament i have to shut up in case it offends your sensibilities? as if.

two thumbs up for the new tournament format    

Am curious, quins forever - why is it any different to last season or previous ones at this point? Round two incomplete, and nothing decided yet.

SecretFly wrote:But it's more than injuries asore, isn't it.  That's why I say it needs more than just top players back.

Yep,it's way more than injuries and I'd say it needs more than just top players back to win the comp but to win this group?Nah even with Healy and SoB out for the entire group stages,if we can get most of our other players back we'll walk this group.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Irish provinces definitely on the back foot in the H Cup this season.   Ulster losing their way completely.  Leinster and Munster both getting lucky wins on the road, and Connacht rueing their squad change after getting hammered by Exeter yesterday.

Wouldn't be surprising to see no Irish teams in the quarter-finals in the H  Cup or the Challenge Cup.

Nah we're going to walk this group if we can get a few of our 1st team back.We might be an average enough side but we're a bit above everyone else in this group even when we're poxed with injuries.

Define "walk this group".   As in win every game?

Pot Hale wrote:

quinsforever wrote:truth isnt always comfortable

i had to read pages of whining about the new format from dowlais. when we have proof of the improved pool structure on the new top tier tournament i have to shut up in case it offends your sensibilities? as if.

two thumbs up for the new tournament format    

Am curious, quins forever - why is it any different to last season or previous ones at this point?    Round two incomplete, and nothing decided yet.  

Exactly. thats why its better.

quinsforever wrote:truth isnt always comfortable

we have proof of the improved pool structure on the new top tier tournament

Keep going though, quins.  What's the proof of the 'improvement'?  Castres putting up a fight at home that probably wasn't officially expected or Leinster struggling away that wasn't officially expected?  I'm seeing nothing I haven't witnessed already in many years of the old contest... considered small sides (on offical paper) putting it up to their considered betters (on official paper).

Pot Hale wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Irish provinces definitely on the back foot in the H Cup this season.   Ulster losing their way completely.  Leinster and Munster both getting lucky wins on the road, and Connacht rueing their squad change after getting hammered by Exeter yesterday.

Wouldn't be surprising to see no Irish teams in the quarter-finals in the H  Cup or the Challenge Cup.

Nah we're going to walk this group if we can get a few of our 1st team back.We might be an average enough side but we're a bit above everyone else in this group even when we're poxed with injuries.

Define "walk this group".   As in win every game?

To me "walk it" means have it won by game 5,I'll be disappointed if we don't win all 6 (assuming we get to put a stronger team out from here on in) but if the group is won and we lose away to Wasps I'll still feel like we cruised through.

quinsforever wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

quinsforever wrote:truth isnt always comfortable

i had to read pages of whining about the new format from dowlais. when we have proof of the improved pool structure on the new top tier tournament i have to shut up in case it offends your sensibilities? as if.

two thumbs up for the new tournament format    

Am curious, quins forever - why is it any different to last season or previous ones at this point?    Round two incomplete, and nothing decided yet.  

Exactly. thats why its better.

Given that was the same situation last season and previous ones, that isn't any difference. Why do you think the new format is better at this stage of the tournament?

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Irish provinces definitely on the back foot in the H Cup this season.   Ulster losing their way completely.  Leinster and Munster both getting lucky wins on the road, and Connacht rueing their squad change after getting hammered by Exeter yesterday.

Wouldn't be surprising to see no Irish teams in the quarter-finals in the H  Cup or the Challenge Cup.

Nah we're going to walk this group if we can get a few of our 1st team back.We might be an average enough side but we're a bit above everyone else in this group even when we're poxed with injuries.

Define "walk this group".   As in win every game?

To me "walk it" means have it won by game 5,I'll be disappointed if we don't win all 6 (assuming we get to put a stronger team out from here on in) but if the group is won and we lose away to Wasps I'll still feel like we cruised through.

So, you think Leinster cruised through their first two games?

with edi, zebre, connacht, dragons, blues in the second tier, there are no easy games anymore. unless you are Toulon, in which case they are all easy apparently.

so the pools are tighter, matches are tighter, and i bet you the last 2 weekends wont be dead rubbers for most of the pools like they were last 2 years.

Pot Hale wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Irish provinces definitely on the back foot in the H Cup this season.   Ulster losing their way completely.  Leinster and Munster both getting lucky wins on the road, and Connacht rueing their squad change after getting hammered by Exeter yesterday.

Wouldn't be surprising to see no Irish teams in the quarter-finals in the H  Cup or the Challenge Cup.

Nah we're going to walk this group if we can get a few of our 1st team back.We might be an average enough side but we're a bit above everyone else in this group even when we're poxed with injuries.

Define "walk this group".   As in win every game?

To me "walk it" means have it won by game 5,I'll be disappointed if we don't win all 6 (assuming we get to put a stronger team out from here on in) but if the group is won and we lose away to Wasps I'll still feel like we cruised through.

So, you think Leinster cruised through their first two games?

Nope and I didn't say anything like that.

quinsforever wrote:with edi, zebre, connacht, dragons, blues in the second tier, there are no easy games anymore. unless you are Toulon, in which case they are all easy apparently.

so the pools are tighter, matches are tighter, and i bet you the last 2 weekends wont be dead rubbers for most of the pools like they were last 2 years.

Yeah the last two years were spoiled by the presence of delightfully overly-good Top14 sides I say down with the Top14, it plays a special brand of slick run-it-at-'em rugby that none of us begrudgers can match.

quinsforever wrote:with edi, zebre, connacht, dragons, blues in the second tier, there are no easy games anymore. unless you are Toulon, in which case they are all easy apparently.

so the pools are tighter, matches are tighter, and i bet you the last 2 weekends wont be dead rubbers for most of the pools like they were last 2 years.

That's a bet I'd take,tenner to a charity of the winners choice?

How many dead rubbers would there need to be for you to take the bet?

quinsforever wrote:with edi, zebre, connacht, dragons, blues in the second tier, there are no easy games anymore. unless you are Toulon, in which case they are all easy apparently.

so the pools are tighter, matches are tighter, and i bet you the last 2 weekends wont be dead rubbers for most of the pools like they were last 2 years.

Munster had their best win over Saracens on Friday

Pot Hale wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Irish provinces definitely on the back foot in the H Cup this season.   Ulster losing their way completely.  Leinster and Munster both getting lucky wins on the road, and Connacht rueing their squad change after getting hammered by Exeter yesterday.

Wouldn't be surprising to see no Irish teams in the quarter-finals in the H  Cup or the Challenge Cup.

Nah we're going to walk this group if we can get a few of our 1st team back.We might be an average enough side but we're a bit above everyone else in this group even when we're poxed with injuries.

Define "walk this group".   As in win every game?

To me "walk it" means have it won by game 5,I'll be disappointed if we don't win all 6 (assuming we get to put a stronger team out from here on in) but if the group is won and we lose away to Wasps I'll still feel like we cruised through.

So, you think Leinster cruised through their first two games?

Nope, but didn't cruise through their group the first time they won the Heineken Cup either.

I don't think any team has won the Heineken Cup that has won all their group games.

Well done Leinster, a win in France is always a good win no matter how you played.

Asls is right. Leinster got their sticky game out of their system last week. They will walk the group. All the new format has meant is a different type of cannon fodder.

ah was wondering how long it would take you to recover from your hangover.

shhh everyone. the oracle has arrived.

ME-109 wrote:Asls is right. Leinster got their sticky game out of their system last week. They will walk the group. All the new format has meant is a different type of cannon fodder.

The stupid seeding system which is designed to give the AP teams a guaranteed top seed even if they don't deserve it is to blame for the lopsided groups.The old system was poor too but they had the perfect chance to fix and instead came up with something even worse.The 2nd place team in each league going into a lottery for the top seed is such an inept system,whatever clowns came up with that should be hit in the chops with a wet fish.

quinsforever wrote:with edi, zebre, connacht, dragons, blues in the second tier, there are no easy games anymore. unless you are Toulon, in which case they are all easy apparently.

so the pools are tighter, matches are tighter, and i bet you the last 2 weekends wont be dead rubbers for most of the pools like they were last 2 years.

Ah - so you're not basing it on current results.     You're slightly myopic I think about "no easy results anymore".   Bath v Glasgow was not a tight result last week, or Quins v Castres, or Ospreys v Treviso, nor Saints v Ospreys this week or even Ulster v Toulon as you referenced.    Interestingly, the recipients of big margin defeats last season in the first two rounds included Treviso, Gloucester, Montpellier, Zebre, Cardiff and Glasgow.  You're right in that the cumulative win/defeat margins have decreased since last year, but big winning margins have continued against the likes of Bath, Treviso, Sale, and Ospreys so far.

Margins in first 2 rounds 2013/14
(Lein, Norts, Castres, Osp) Pool 1 - 6, 10, 12, 11
(Toulon, Cardiff, Exe, Glas) Pool 2 - 15, 23, 4, 4
(Toulouse, Sarries, Conn, Zeb) Pool 3 - 6, 33, 1, 27
(Clermont, Quins, Scar, Racing) Pool 4 - 7, 4, 0, 7
(Ulster, Tigers, Montp, Trev) Pool 5 - 6, 17, 31, 17
(Mun, Glouc, Edin, Perp) Pool 6 - 6, 5, 16, 17

Margins in first 2 rounds 2014/15
Pool 1 - 1, 7, 11, (32)
Pool 2 - 16, 5, 5, (x)
Pool 3 - 10,7, 10, 12
Pool 4, 27, 7, 2, 2
Pool 5 - 28, 9, 35, (x)

Edit - have to keep updating the widening margin against Sale.....

you are missing that with 5 groups vs 6 last year there are now 3 runner up qualifiers. whereas previously there were only 2, and every single year they came from whichever pools had the italian sides plus or minus connacht in.

therefore whichever english or french side was in the group with italian side plus connacht was guaranteed a runner up spot.

so hence almost nothing to play for in any groups in the last match, and most of the groups in the last 2 matches.

quinsforever wrote:you are missing that with 5 groups vs 6 last year there are now 3 runner up qualifiers. whereas previously there were only 2, and every single year they came from whichever pools had the italian sides plus or minus connacht in.

therefore whichever english or french side was in the group with italian side plus connacht was guaranteed a runner up spot.

so hence almost nothing to play for in any groups in the last match, and most of the groups in the last 2 matches.

Lol it's best to check your facts before pressing send.

quinsforever wrote:you are missing that with 5 groups vs 6 last year there are now 3 runner up qualifiers. whereas previously there were only 2, and every single year they came from whichever pools had the italian sides plus or minus connacht in.

therefore whichever english or french side was in the group with italian side plus connacht was guaranteed a runner up spot.

so hence almost nothing to play for in any groups in the last match, and most of the groups in the last 2 matches.

People (not Leinster guys!) are already suggesting that Quins and Wasps will have easier games against Castres now as Castres removes their interest in the contest and concentrates on their League instead.  Again, not my opinion that they will or that they should - it came from an English observer I think.
There are even suggestions - wait for it, wait for it!!! - amongst some Ulster fans that they should now concentrate on their League position rather than struggling on in ERCC!  

Sides (according to reactions all around) will already be deciding to give less attention and players to ERCC from here on in - and it's only 2nd week in.

Now that might have been the goal of the new product  - to make all Leagues more competitive    - but it creates a lot of dead meat interest in the ERCC from sides that perhaps increasingly see there is nothing left in it for them.  
PLUS - as a conseqence, we're back to games whereby the sides still in with chances increasingly meet less competitive sides who aren't - making the journey of the 'fancied' sides easier and easier as time goes on, not more difficult week by the week.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

quinsforever wrote:you are missing that with 5 groups vs 6 last year there are now 3 runner up qualifiers. whereas previously there were only 2, and every single year they came from whichever pools had the italian sides plus or minus connacht in.

therefore whichever english or french side was in the group with italian side plus connacht was guaranteed a runner up spot.

so hence almost nothing to play for in any groups in the last match, and most of the groups in the last 2 matches.

Lol it's best to check your facts before pressing send.

Wouldn't recognize a fact if it slapped him with that wet fish you were talking about. Given a Harlequin is a type of clown then your suggestion makes a lot of sense to me

quinsforever wrote:you are missing that with 5 groups vs 6 last year there are now 3 runner up qualifiers. whereas previously there were only 2, and every single year they came from whichever pools had the italian sides plus or minus connacht in.

therefore whichever english or french side was in the group with italian side plus connacht was guaranteed a runner up spot.

so hence almost nothing to play for in any groups in the last match, and most of the groups in the last 2 matches.

No I'm not missing that point.   Your statement was based on results to date after less than two rounds.  How the pool stages might work out by next January is unknown as yet.    I think your original statement is premature to be honest.   Once could argue that having three runners-up spots makes things less competitive.  And that there is no 'drop-down' into the Challenge Cup any more, therefore, teams give up quicker in some groups.   Watching Sale get hammered by Clermont at the moment, literally, one has to wonder whether Steve Diamond's priorities will start to shift before the year is out, never mind after January, with their forthcoming double against Saracens, and the same for Ulster, Bath, Montpellier, and Treviso (assuming they losteto Racing).

2014
tigers - pool w treviso
sarries - pool w zebre + connacht

2013
munster - pool w edi (only team to get 0 points in whole competition)

2012
blues - edi in their group
ulster - aironi (got 0 points)

2011
ulster - aironi in group
tigers - treviso and dragons in group

2010
northampton - treviso in group
ospreys - viadana in group


need i go on?

quinsforever wrote:2014
tigers - pool w treviso
sarries - pool w zebre + connacht

2013
munster - pool w edi (only team to get 0 points in whole competition)

2012
blues - edi in their group
ulster - aironi (got 0 points)

2011
ulster - aironi in group
tigers - treviso and dragons in group

2010
northampton - treviso in group
ospreys - viadana in group


need i go on?

Only if you want to look like an even bigger fool.

I wonder why 2013 is the only year you haven't completed?

Lol just noticed the bolded part,you must have done that on purpose?

the problem with having significantly weaker sides in the pool stages is the awarding of try bonus points. it makes it unfair on the teams that dont have an aironi, viadana, treviso, zebre, connacht and occasionally edinburgh, in their group.

it's not a controversial point.

Quins the changes to the tournament were to get more money and power to club owners in England and France. We all know this. You almost sound like you're trying to convince yourself rather than anyone else, that it was about making the tournament better. Could that argument happen somewhere else though, I avoid those ones and this is a Leinster match thread.

Sin e is right a win in France is always good. Maybe we were spoiled during the Schmidt era and expect too much, but I really do expect attractive entertaining rugby from Leinster. And we're not getting it under this coach. And Toulon, Clermont or Toulouse would probably brush us aside easily if we play like that. Saracens or Northampton would probably beat us too. We should be better.