C'mon the eagles

First topic message reminder :

Good start by the ABs strong tackling by the Eagles

doctor_grey wrote:It was clear the Eagles lacked the athletes and experienced players to compete.  Decision making was poor as well.  But they were game and went at it as best they could.  The crowd, all 61,000 of them, stayed to the end and supported as best they could.  

That's brilliant to hear. My auld fella watched the game on TV and was very negative about it, given it was uncompetitive. But for people to just enjoy the occasion regardless is great.

Probably the most significant outcome was the injuries to key all blacks. They are thin on the ground for hookers as it is, and will likely be brutalised in the upcoming few weeks.

Interesting to see if sonny bill recovers. His contract prevents disclosure of any injuries I hear.

My cousin made his debut in that match. Tough debut.

Notch wrote:Or, how to win against New Zealand even when you lose 74-6



That'll delight all the followers of that Legendary Aussie Team, I'm sure

It's a little bit funny.

Clearly before we bring rugby to America we will have to bring Geography.

boomeranga wrote:

Notch wrote:Or, how to win against New Zealand even when you lose 74-6



That'll delight all the followers of that Legendary Aussie Team, I'm sure

It's a little bit funny.

i think that answers most of the questions about the mountain rugby needs to climb in America to become a mainstream sport.

quinsforever wrote:

boomeranga wrote:

Notch wrote:Or, how to win against New Zealand even when you lose 74-6



That'll delight all the followers of that Legendary Aussie Team, I'm sure

It's a little bit funny.

i think that answers most of the questions about the mountain rugby needs to climb in America to become a mainstream sport.

Nah.  Just someone putting up a headline who doesn't know where the ABs came from.  Was corrected with the later editions. No big.  

blackcanelion wrote:

doctor_grey wrote: it was clear the Americans know how to stage an event.  Was a grand time and I would hope they have more opportunities to put on Rugby events like this.  Was nice to see a good sized stadium full to the rafters with Americans cheering on Rugby.  The big question is where does it go from here.  For that, we need to wait and see.

It sounds Great Doc, Lucky B$#%Tard.

What are your thoughts on the way forward for US rugby?

I'm thinking they need more opportunities to develop. More games from teams that US fans want to see in the short term. Coaching resources and a professional leagues in the longer term.

By the way where most of the US fans already rugby fans or where a fair portion just curious?

Here's Fox's take on the game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_j4YAPo8mI

That's a big question you are asking mate, about the way forward for Rugby in America.  I will take a crack and try not to be too long.

The first thing they need is already happenning and we will see the impact starting in the 2019 and 2023 RWCs.  That is a generation of players who started playing as kids.  Very few of the current crop have dome that.  This will be a big step forwards.  These numbers are growing fast.  

Next is a more visible pathway from schools levels to uni level to the national team.  

And more international opportunities for players and coaches.  

Hand in hand with that is a better organisation.  USA Rugby is not strong.  In fact they need help.  AIG, the ABs American sponsor, basically handled most of the negotiations with the teams, proposed host cities, stadium deal, and so on.  If USA Rugby do indeed tie up with the NFL, as has been proposed, then this would change in an instant to being associated with the best run organisation in all sport.  The NFL legal troubles are a mere mosquito on the overall NFL monolith. Right now USA Rugby have trouble managing their way out of a shopping bag. if they can create the same or similar atmosphere around their matches and hold them in in big stadiums, this can speed up the process.  

They do need to shortcut the process by using uni or NFL cast-offs.  There are no athletes on earth with more raw explosive power than American Football players.  It would take about 18 months to re-tune these athletes for the aerobic aspects of Rugby.  Not all positions could make the switch, but receivers, backs, linebackers would do just fine.  This was a big discussion this weekend.  One of the ABs medical guys, a bumhole if there ever was one, claimed it can't be done.  I thought that was either ignorance or arrogance of the highest order.  Most medical and physio types agree to the 1.5 year time frame.

They also need more visibility on tv for players to see games.  This is improving, but not enough yet on mainstream tv.  

I think by the 2023 RWC, if not before, Rugby should have grown sufficiently to hit critical mass where it can grow a bit more organically, and likely a pro league will have been established by then.  There are a lot of people here who have played rugby in uni or outside the country and want to give back.  This is probably the most priceless commodity they have.

A last point was made by a quite attractive kiwi girl at the hotel bar.  She offered her opinion about one of the differences between the ABs and the American Rugby team:  "Our Samoans are better than their Samoans".


Was interesting to see most of the crowd were Americans.  There were some kiwis thrown in the mix, but these were hard core Rugby types and know the game well.  


Hope this helps.  My opinion only.

hard case doc. Typical kiwi comment re the Samoans... per head of population they're the best rugby players by a street- regularly appearing in all the top sides bar the Bok's for several years now. Would have been a good one to go on alright, black plane and all from here. A few from work were on it.

Taylor,
Didn't know that was a common opinion. I thought she was trying to be funny. I repeated it here only because I thought she told a joke. In the past I played with and against Samoan blokes, and served with a number of them too. Tough guys. And they are everywhere.

Cheers Doc. Interesting. I think the US has the ability to change the rugby's powerbase over night. I'm geting the feeling that grass roots rugby is spreading quite quickly.

It seems to me a bit of interest from NFL franchises would be a game changer. Huge operations, support staff, ready made facilities and existing broadcast infrastructure. A big off season fits fits in well with a summer rugby comp. Add to that the franchises have huge turnovers (I think I read the bears had a annual net income of over (US) $100 Million). You can bet they could buy, support a world class team for a fraction  of that.

Unlikely to happen soon. But the moment it looks profitable watch this space. Get 10 teams interested I can only imagine the power shift. Be interesting if Wales, France or England had to negotiate with the likes of the New York Jets for the release of players. I'm not sure the IRB is ready for that.

Couple of general points;

I think 7's is the perfect tool to introduce the game to Americans, either through watching at the Olympics, or through playing one of the non/contact versions as children. Inculcating the games skills and dynamic early is vital in inspiring further development. Hopefully this will encourage further growth in the club game.

A professional game..............very difficult to understand how this will work in the short term, costs, popularity, geography etc. However, if rugby does evolve professionally, I believe it must not compete with the NFL game/space, but should always attempt to develop with and around the NFL. A symbiotic relationship has to emerge where rugby is a real option for the NFL(baskett ball?) college and pro cast offs.

Finally, bringing the Rugby World Cup to the US in 2027 will certainly focus minds?

I think the 2015 RWC SHOULD have been staged in the US. There have been a disproportionate number of RWC held in Europe given the ranking of European teams and historical ability of European teams to win it.

Criticism of the 2011 hosting decision in NZ seems still valid today - that hosting of the cup should be used as a tool to expand the game globally. If 2011 belonged in Japan then 2015 belonged in North America

Don't live in the past though or you'll find yourself dead before you get born, which is a very frustrating thing to be.

Tigers are on the way
http://www.leicestertigers.com/news/21028.php

doctor_grey wrote:Taylor,
Didn't know that was a common opinion.  I thought she was trying to be funny.  I repeated it here only because I thought she told a joke.  In the past I played with and against Samoan blokes, and served with a number of them too.  Tough guys.  And they are everywhere.  

Its really the kiwi-ness of the joke I meant...anything to plug little ol' NZ when away from home...

Taylorman wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Taylor,
Didn't know that was a common opinion.  I thought she was trying to be funny.  I repeated it here only because I thought she told a joke.  In the past I played with and against Samoan blokes, and served with a number of them too.  Tough guys.  And they are everywhere.  

Its really the kiwi-ness of the joke I meant...anything to plug little ol' NZ when away from home...

gotcha. But I suppose with a grain of truth....

TobyBryant wrote:I think the 2015 RWC SHOULD have been staged in the US. There have been a disproportionate number of RWC held in Europe given the ranking of European teams and historical ability of European teams to win it.

Criticism of the 2011 hosting decision in NZ seems still valid today - that hosting of the cup should be used as a tool to expand the game globally. If 2011 belonged in Japan then 2015 belonged in North America

I honestly dont care about expansion of rugby that much. Dont think it will make it any more enjoyable than it currently is.

I kinda agree with Guns.  People use the word Expansion as though compelled to - like politicians talk of Growth.  Growth is what happens before a Recession.  So when politicians talk of more and more Growth, what they're really doing is rushing themselves to the next recession.

Anyway, Expansion is I feel more a selfish and opportunistic word in rugby circles.  
Yes, there's the inevitable business opportunities of sponsors and such like.  We all know that one - but the selfish bit I'm refering to is the idea that if rugby grows in new areas that'll be more areas to harvest more players from.
Not a bad thing some will retort.  Well, that depends on the attitude of players who even now don't get the attention they deserve to learn more, to improve their game and to see the fruits of that by sliding up the ladder in their sport.  Nope, increasingly rich clubs simply find the right player and buy them (at a rapidly increasing price) from wherever in the world they come from.
So expansion drops as many players and teams and history and traditions as it does in growing such things elsewhere.
Expansion is following sponsors, their markets and wealthiest consumers.  It has little concern for 'rugby on the field' as last week's AB breezy distruction of USA clearly shows.