Ireland vs South Africa 8th of November

First topic message reminder :

In six days time Ireland will host South Africa in their first test of the November tours. South Africa will have to lift themselves for this one as the standard under Meyer has ben exemplary in Europe, he is yet to lose a test match and the Six Nations champions gets first shot at breaking Meyer's unbeaten streak over the Six Nations teams.

It seems both teams are effected by injuries so their depth will be severely tested.

South African players unavailable due to injury.

Props - Marcel v d Merwe, Frans Malherbe
Hooker - Schalk Brits, Callie Visagie
Locks - Pieter Steph du Toit, Flip v d Merwe
Back Row - Frans Louw, Willem Alberts, Siya Kolisi, Arno Botha
Halfback - Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar (Pending a fitness test)
Midfield - Jaque Fourie

Irish players unavailable due to injury.
Props - Healy, Moore, Ross (Questionable)
Hooker - Cronin, Best (questionable)
Locks - Tuohy, Ryan
Back Row - Henderson, Murphy, O'Brien
Halfback -
Flyhalf - Sexton (Questionable)
Midfield - Darcy (questionable)
Back Three - Kearney, Earls, Trimble, Fitzgerald, McFadden, Bowe (questionable)

Ireland has been rather successful against South Africa in the last decade, managing wins in 2004, 2006 and 2009.

South Africa 31 - 17 Ireland
South Africa 26 - 17 Ireland
Ireland 17 - 12 South Africa
Ireland 32 - 15 South Africa
Ireland 15 - 10 South Africa
Ireland 21 - 23 South Africa
Ireland 12 - 16 South Africa

Likely matchday 23 for South Africa.

1. Tendai Mtwarira
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Jannie du PLessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Victor Matfield
6. Marcell Coetzee
7. Oupa Mohoje
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Handre Pollard
11. Brya Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jan Serfontein
14. Cornal Hendricks
15. Willie le Roux.

Subs
16. Coenie Oosthuizen
17. Adriaan Strauss
18. Julian Redelinghuys
19. Bakkies Botha
20. Schalk Burger
21. Cobus Reinach
22. Johan Goosen
23. Patrick Lambie/Damien de Allende

Likely Irish matchday 23. (Help please)

Ireland will be keen to beat the Springboks, even though they are unlikely to meet them in earlier rounds of the RWC it will give them validation and confidence for the Rugby World Cup. Under their new coach I expect them to throw the ball around and attempt to run the SPringboks off their feet, Ireland is also more used to the conditions and could use that to their advantage, I suspect the territorial game will be part of their plans.

It is easier sad than done though, the only team in recent years that managed to run the Springboks off their feet was New Zealand, and that was at altitude. South Africa these days play more adventurous rugby and at a great pace as well, newcomer Handre POllard will be on his first trip to Europe, so it might take him a while to adapt, but once on song he will be the danger man, South Africa attacks a lot flatter without Morne Steyn which does provide more hesitation in opposition defences and creates more space for their outside backs.

One issue with South Africa this season has been their inconsistency in performances, and they will have to be on song from the start.

Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer has warned his team they will need to be at their best if they are to keep their unbeaten record under his management in the northern hemisphere intact.

Meyer singled out the team’s first fixture against Ireland as a crucial one to kick off the team’s four week tour, and one which is the most tricky of all their fixtures.

The Boks know they cannot focus on the Twickenham showdown before getting past the tricky Irish, who have been a team that has plagued them at this time of year under previous coaches.

The Boks will know all too well how a poor opening performance can set the trend for the tour, and with chances to experiment getting less and less ahead of the World Cup, it is imperative that the team kick off the tour on a high note.

“We have a proud record and we haven’t lost a game there. But we have a proud record and this is probably the toughest tour we have faced to the Northern Hemisphere. I truly believe Ireland is an unbelievable team, they were unlucky not to beat the All Blacks last year.

“They’ve got a great coaching staff, a lot of in-form players and their defence is great. They’ve got a good kicking game in those conditions."

That's it boys, enjoy the discussion.

I havn't seen much of Serfontein but from my own observations on centers, they don't have to be the best athletes. Whats more important is a good rugby brain. For instance they have to make many decisions in attack and defence and are heavily involved in both. Making good decisions is very important for the team to run smoothly.

Of course you have to be some way physical. Thats probably more important than speed these days.

Although BB....

Meyer is not completely loco mind.

He can't have a backline featuring Pollard, Hendricks, Serfontein, Engelbrecht, Le Roux.

You do need some leadership somewhere in the line. JDV has to remain or the team will implode IMO.

FA, the try of AAC.

AAC had a 5 meter head start on Serfontein. Importantly that try came because Pollard and Habana went high onto the tackle of Kurindrani and they took each other out.

How on earth you can be concerned about Serfontein not being able to catch a winger with a 5 meter head start and ignore the real reason for the try is ....well......beyond me.

I must admit I struggle with Fa's reasoning here... but he feels we need a new 13 and that's what really matters.

I must admit I struggle with Fa's reasoning here... but he feels we need a new 13 and that's what really matters.

I also want to see a new backline.

I want to see

9. Hougaard as starter and Reinach as bench replacement
10 Pollard as starter and Lambie as bench replacement
11. de Allende
12. Serfontein
13. JJ Engelbrecht
14. Cornal Hendricks although I am not sold on him yet.
15. Willie le Roux with Goosen as his bench back up

I want to see time invested into Marnitz Boshoff, William Small Smith, Andre Esterhuize, Kobus van Wyk, Seabelo Senatla and Subaru Sithole.

I also think Jesse Kriel and Jurgen Visser needs some development.

I do wonder about Senatla. Obviously has proper after burners on him, and is very game intelligent. But to my knowledge he's more focused on Rio 2016, than England 2015. Not so much about him but as a general question. Do players have to choose one or the other, can they try burn both ends of the candle?

Biltong wrote:I also want to see a new backline.

I want to see

9. Hougaard as starter and Reinach as bench replacement
10 Pollard as starter and Lambie as bench replacement
11. de Allende
12. Serfontein
13. JJ Engelbrecht
14. Cornal Hendricks although I am not sold on him yet.
15. Willie le Roux with Goosen as his bench back up

I want to see time invested into Marnitz Boshoff, William Small Smith, Andre Esterhuize, Kobus van Wyk, Seabelo Senatla and Subaru Sithole.

I also think Jesse Kriel and Jurgen Visser needs some development.

If Serfontein is too slow for a 13 then De allende is most definately too slow for an international winger replacing Bryan Habana on top of that . Would rather they tried out Senatla or even better Kolbe . And dont anyone start on the size debate

Kolbe is pretty small though...

Bullsbok, you know as well as I do Meyer will not select him due to his.....well.......

fascinating....an actual rugby discussion that went on for about 20 posts and no one has thrown the baby out of the pram yet....you're almost as boring as Kiwi's.

Really looking forward to see the first tentative serious steps of Ireland in the post-BOD era. Pity injury has hit the Irish squad in a couple areas, would love to have seen Henderson, Olding, and Marty Moore getting good gametime.

One area I'm a little bit worried about Ireland competing is at the breakdown. South Africa will get in and disrupt in numbers, and with BOD gone and Best and Healy out I think Ireland will need to really stand up and be counted. I'm sure we will see plenty of O Mahony and Henry, but will want to see good graft out of anyone that comes in.

Still believe Ireland can nick a win, but wouldn't be surprised if missing the experience in key areas takes it's toll.

POC has been learning Afrikaans again apparently. He has been practising this for the game

God verdomme Victor Wat Is jy 'n Eikel . Kry uit die losgemaal voor ek skop jou in die balle

ME-109 wrote:fascinating....an actual rugby discussion that went on for about 20 posts and no one has thrown the baby out of the pram yet....you're almost as boring as Kiwi's.

ME-109 wrote:POC has been learning Afrikaans again apparently. He has been practising this for the game

God verdomme Victor Wat Is jy 'n Eikel . Kry uit die losgemaal voor ek skop jou in die balle

Afrikaans is so....................so Klingon.
You can imagine Kirk doing battle with Matfield on a Klingon Bird-of-Prey.
Kirk - with POC as his Vulcan sidekick.
POC with pointed ears?? Getting more into Nosferatu territory.

with POC as his Vulcan sidekick. That would be S POC then????

I thought it much too naffishly elementary to try to stick an 's' in there.  I prefered people knowing the allusional score themselves

that's me naffish!!

Talk in the Indo today of Payne AND Henshaw in the centre. Surely not? Both indo and IT have Felix Jones nailed on for the 23 jersey which you would have thought would go to the the one who doesn't get the shout for 13.
Team announcement should be pretty interesting.

There is zero need for Jones if Payne,  Henshaw and Kearney are in he he squad along with one of Zebo and Gilroy. Perhaps an injury amongst that lot hasn't been reported

The need for Jones might be his form??? This is not maths its what these guys have been doing and what they're doing now in training.

Standulstermen wrote:There is zero need for Jones if Payne,  Henshaw and D'arcy are in he he squad along with one of Zebo and Gilroy. Perhaps an injury amongst that lot hasn't been reported

Well if Pane and Henshaw were to both start then Darcy drops out altogether. Zebo will start and Jones would be ahead of Gilroy in the pecking order.

Doesn't make sense to have Jones on the bench. If he is going to be involved, he will probably be starting. Kearney has been carrying an injury and not played much lately so they might not risk him.

Who would play 12 if Payne and Henshaw both started?

profitius wrote:Doesn't make sense to have Jones on the bench. If he is going to be involved, he will probably be starting. Kearney has been carrying an injury and not played much lately so they might not risk him.

Who would you have ahead of him assuming the two lads were to start in the centre? He's been excellent this season for Munster. Gilroy is the only other viable alternative assuming Zebo and Bowe both start and I think he's ahead of him.

profitius wrote:Who would play 12 if Payne and Henshaw both started?

No Idea. Personally i like the bigger guy at 12 so would go with Henshaw but there is no need with Darcy, Olding and Madigan in the squad. I think these guys should be seriouly p1ssed off if it were to transpire

Submachine wrote:

profitius wrote:Doesn't make sense to have Jones on the bench. If he is going to be involved, he will probably be starting. Kearney has been carrying an injury and not played much lately so they might not risk him.

Who would you have ahead of him assuming the two lads were to start in the centre? He's been excellent this season for Munster. Gilroy is the only other viable alternative assuming Zebo and Bowe both start and I think he's ahead of him.

profitius wrote:Who would play 12 if Payne and Henshaw both started?

No Idea. Personally i like the bigger guy at 12 so would go with Henshaw but there is no need with Darcy, Olding and Madigan in the squad. I think these guys should be seriouly p1ssed off if it were to transpire

I wouldn't have Jones on the bench because their is no cover for the wings,Henshaw and Payne can both play fullback,Gilroy has played their a good bit as well so I think Jones would have to be miles ahead in quality before I'd give him the nod.

Jones is a specialist 15. So he offers little flexibility from the bench. R Kearney is also a 15. So if Jones was to make the bench it would mean either Henshaw or Payne starting at 15 IMO. They offer flexibility.

I'd have Olding as the 12. After him Madigan would be my next choice. Henshaw is a lot more physical than any other option so wouldn't surprise me to see him thete

I've not seen anything of Robbie Henshaw this season, not due to lack of interest by the way. What kind of form has he been in. I've always like the cut of his jib and see him as the real heir apparent to the 13 shirt. Come on someone, fill me in here

ME-109 wrote:POC has been learning Afrikaans again apparently. He has been practising this for the game

God verdomme Victor Wat Is jy 'n Eikel . Kry uit die losgemaal voor ek skop jou in die balle

POC is probably fluent in Afrikaans now from hanging around with BJ & CJ.

He probably will have his own onfield interpreter (Rickardt Strauss) anyway

Pete330v2 wrote:I've not seen anything of Robbie Henshaw this season, not due to lack of interest by the way. What kind of form has he been in. I've always like the cut of his jib and see him as the real heir apparent to the 13 shirt. Come on someone, fill me in here

Looked a little bit rusty when he came back from Injury which is to be expected but has played really well in the Pro12 since then. Scored some tries and defends like a beast. Picked Jimmy Gopperth up like a child in the Leinster game and actually showed good self control not to injure him when he could have done real damage.

Sin é wrote:

ME-109 wrote:POC has been learning Afrikaans again apparently. He has been practising this for the game

God verdomme Victor Wat Is jy 'n Eikel . Kry uit die losgemaal voor ek skop jou in die balle

POC is probably fluent in Afrikaans now from hanging around with BJ & CJ.

He probably will have his own onfield interpreter (Rickardt Strauss) anyway

You do realise Mtawarira and Mahoje now call the lineouts in Shona and Sotho right?

Perhaps you should rush to the Dublin school of languages pronto and get an interpreter to give you some last minute tips.

Jones is a very good fullback. Positionally he is excellent, is as brave as anything, good talker/leader and I would say a better defender (due to his positional sense) than either RKearney or Payne.

All his coaches love him.

fa0019 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ME-109 wrote:POC has been learning Afrikaans again apparently. He has been practising this for the game

God verdomme Victor Wat Is jy 'n Eikel . Kry uit die losgemaal voor ek skop jou in die balle

POC is probably fluent in Afrikaans now from hanging around with BJ & CJ.

He probably will have his own onfield interpreter (Rickardt Strauss) anyway

You do realise Mtawarira and Mahoje now call the lineouts in Shona and Sotho right?

Perhaps you should rush to the Dublin school of languages pronto and get an interpreter to give you some last minute tips.

Congrats on the call up Sin. Well deserved

fa0019 wrote:
You do realise Mtawarira and Mahoje now call the lineouts in Shona and Sotho right?

We don't. But POC does.

Afrikaans is like mangled Dutch....the Dutch think its quite quaint though...

Anyhow....some reports that it will be Payne and Henshaw in the centre...would find that an interesting and exciting partnership....

fa0019 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ME-109 wrote:POC has been learning Afrikaans again apparently. He has been practising this for the game

God verdomme Victor Wat Is jy 'n Eikel . Kry uit die losgemaal voor ek skop jou in die balle

POC is probably fluent in Afrikaans now from hanging around with BJ & CJ.

He probably will have his own onfield interpreter (Rickardt Strauss) anyway

You do realise Mtawarira and Mahoje now call the lineouts in Shona and Sotho right?

Perhaps you should rush to the Dublin school of languages pronto and get an interpreter to give you some last minute tips.

Ah good, so the Saffer lineout could have as much difficulty understanding the calls as the Ireland jumpers

fa0019 wrote:

You do realise Mtawarira and Mahoje now call the lineouts in Shona and Sotho right?

Perhaps you should rush to the Dublin school of languages pronto and get an interpreter to give you some last minute tips.

What use is that if no one has a bog what they are saying?

ME-109 wrote:Afrikaans is like mangled Dutch....the Dutch think its quite quaint though...

Anyhow....some reports that it will be Payne and Henshaw in the centre...would find that an interesting and exciting partnership....

Word is they've been mixing up centre positions in training - so it would be a shame not to try it - oh and they're getting Shona lessons from POC during lunch break

Submachine wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ME-109 wrote:POC has been learning Afrikaans again apparently. He has been practising this for the game

God verdomme Victor Wat Is jy 'n Eikel . Kry uit die losgemaal voor ek skop jou in die balle

POC is probably fluent in Afrikaans now from hanging around with BJ & CJ.

He probably will have his own onfield interpreter (Rickardt Strauss) anyway

You do realise Mtawarira and Mahoje now call the lineouts in Shona and Sotho right?

Perhaps you should rush to the Dublin school of languages pronto and get an interpreter to give you some last minute tips.

Congrats on the call up Sin. Well deserved

Thanks. I knew it would happen if I believed

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Afrikaans is like mangled Dutch....the Dutch think its quite quaint though...

Anyhow....some reports that it will be Payne and Henshaw in the centre...would find that an interesting and exciting partnership....

Word is they've been mixing up centre positions in training - so it would be a shame not to try it - oh and they're getting Shona lessons from POC during lunch break

According to Ferris on against the head he seems pretty sure Payne will be starting.

Plus its good to see Ferris on TV. He seems like a gas lad.

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Afrikaans is like mangled Dutch....the Dutch think its quite quaint though...

Anyhow....some reports that it will be Payne and Henshaw in the centre...would find that an interesting and exciting partnership....

Word is they've been mixing up centre positions in training - so it would be a shame not to try it - oh and they're getting Shona lessons from POC during lunch break

CJ said during the week that the SA Forwards coach (an old coach of his) is taking a taxi to Limerick to visit him down there

I bet Payne will be on the bench, with Henshaw at 13 and D'Arcy at 12.

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:
Congrats on the call up Sin. Well deserved

Thanks. I knew it would happen if I believed

And Schmidt doing the calling too!  He's certainly learning how to pick players who think for themselves.  Just keep to the rough gameplan though, Sin.  No heroics and don't go off on a tangent explaining the ERCC funding storm to Pollard

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Afrikaans is like mangled Dutch....the Dutch think its quite quaint though...

Anyhow....some reports that it will be Payne and Henshaw in the centre...would find that an interesting and exciting partnership....

Word is they've been mixing up centre positions in training - so it would be a shame not to try it - oh and they're getting Shona lessons from POC during lunch break

CJ said during the week that the SA Forwards coach (an old coach of his) is taking a taxi to Limerick to visit him down there

I sure how CJ isn't a double agent! Keep mum, CJ!!! We're listening in all the time.........all the time!

Sin é wrote:I bet Payne will be on the bench, with Henshaw at 13 and D'Arcy at 12.

Yeah...more than likely...

Submachine wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:I've not seen anything of Robbie Henshaw this season, not due to lack of interest by the way. What kind of form has he been in. I've always like the cut of his jib and see him as the real heir apparent to the 13 shirt. Come on someone, fill me in here

Looked a little bit rusty when he came back from Injury which is to be expected but has played really well in the Pro12 since then. Scored some tries and defends like a beast. Picked Jimmy Gopperth up like a child in the Leinster game and actually showed good self control not to injure him when he could have done real damage.

Cheers Sub

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Submachine wrote:
Congrats on the call up Sin. Well deserved

Thanks. I knew it would happen if I believed

And Schmidt doing the calling too!  He's certainly learning how to pick players who think for themselves.  Just keep to the rough gameplan though, Sin.  No heroics and don't go off on a tangent explaining the ERCC funding storm to Pollard

My tenaciousness over the ERCC swung it for Schmidt. He said if I was as good at ruck resourcing as I am at keeping our European colleagues on the straight and narrow over the ERC, I'd be a permanent fixture on the Ireland team.

Id certainly prefer Hendshaw to start anyway. Like the look of that combo.

Re: Payne starting.

I can't see it going any other way or the experiment the IRFU has ordered is all for nought and would leave many heads being scratched as to why he's been forced into the 13 shirt for Ulster.
On the other hand he has shown no reason why he would be deemed good enough at 13 for international call up. Hey, Joe knows you know...............

I was already scratching my head when he was offered a central contract without ever wearing a green jumper.