World Tour Finals Thread - Match & Prediction Thread

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

So the ATPs premier showpiece event hits the O2 on Sunday. The sixth showing at the O2 and yielded only 3 different winners. Very interesting this year. 3 virgin qualifiers in Cillic, Raonic and Nishikori. Can we see a new winner? Can Nishikori and Raonic win the biggest title of their careers to date? Federer will have an eye on the DC like his compatriot Wawrinka, though he is woefully out of form of late. Has Murray much left in the tank to win his first title here at the O2? Can Berdych do a Davydenko and strike out of nowhere? Will it be a routine Djokovic victory?

For me the 2 that qualify from each group will be:

Group A

1) Djokovic
2) Raonic

Group B

1) Murray
2) Federer

Djokovic/Murray final

Winner: Djokovic

[Henman Bill]

I said last night that Federer was trying to get the double bagel - however he claimed in his press conference that he preferred to lose that last game and win 6-0 6-1 than 6-0 6-0. He didn't give it away though, exactly, but maybe he was trying to win but preferred to actually lose if that makes sense.

[Henman Bill]

I think there is a little too much doom and gloom around Murray, there is always too much short term thinking about for me on forums. He is quite far behind at the moment, he needs to improve his motivation and confidence, fix some aspects of his game, try and improve his secondn serve as best he can. I think he will get better, and I think he can come back.

However the Australian Open may be too soon for him, he is far behind the others at the moment, it feels like a big three with him leading the chasing pack rather than a big four at the moment. And then you're in the clay season, where he has never done better than semi finals, even in his best season. And then the second half of the year there are more faster surfaces. So the whole of next year could be challenging in a way. I mean, if he gets back to his peak too late next year he will headinng into the indoor season where he has never dominated.

I think if he can play Indian Wells and Miami and fully go for it like his masters performances of about 2008 and win one of those that could be a big boost. I think he will finish in the top four next season and although it's looking more optimistic than before I can still see him winning another slam in his career, and perhaps getting into the top two ranking positions at least, within a couple of years or so.

I am not going to write him off as quickly as some of you, let's give him at least until 2016 as a lot stranger things have happened in sports.

[Henman Bill]

He also badly needs any win against one of the other big four even if it's in a minor tournament otherwise all through next year it's going to be "x defeats in a row against Federer, Nadal and Djokovic".

[Silver]

The Djok is pretty much the only man who's been able to even crack 50% first serves this week consistently - could be the difference in the end. I've got no idea why everyone else is struggling so much on serve indoors!

Jimmy Arias on Tennis Channel yesterday was saying the players are complaining about the new blue lights the O2 or tourney is using to light up the crowd during play. In the past, the crowd was dark and was a great backdrop for serving.  He says the new blue is strange and making it harder to track and time the balls-   esp during serve.

Makes sense as clearly something was changed that has had an effect on nearly everyone's serving.  

Ah, thank you kindly for the info.

[laverfan]

I am not going to write him off as quickly as some of you, let's give him at least until 2016 as a lot stranger things have happened in sports.

Camus says - Hope is the ultimate form of despair (it has been a while since I have read him though, it could be Sartre or Beauvoir or Nietzsche).

I would have preferred him being humiliated 6-0, 6-0 so he could wake up and smell the roses. He did frak-all in the match. Kim was working much harder at cheering him than he was returning Federer's serve. I wish he had not qualified at all (and you realize how angry I am now, I am livid every time I think of this match).

Look at Ferrer, as an alternate, he almost beat Nishikori. As LKv2 says, he needs a backbone. In Valencia he was literally staggering around like a drunk towards the end of the match with Robredo. It was clear he would be cannon fodder at WTF. I am not sure home Much Raonic's

Also, my hats-off to CC for being the fan he is for Murray (and you, BanBro, Danny, Calder, CarrieG4, and many others). Without using the word 'hope', can he do better in 2015/16?

[Guest]

The thing is HB for me he is now in a position of facing Nadal/Federer/Djokovic in the QFs of Slams/Masters, unless of course he has a strong showing at other events before Miami/IW maybe at Brisbane/Doha/Rotterdam/Acapulco, so again much like the back end of this year he is going to have to play a load of events to put himself in the best position to make top 4 again before IW/Miami and the Clay swing. So how much will he have left by the time Wimbledon is upon us?

I want Andy to be back at his absolute best. I really do. I don't want to put too many elements as to why his form and game stink at the moment. As many have said including LF, I never wanted him to qualify for the WTF. It was always a step too far. He literally killed himself to get there and he those matches with Robredo showed that he was not ready to tackle the best just yet.

The manner of the defeat against Federer was pathetic. Just devoid of any ideas, creativity and guts. Take nothing away from Federer, everything he touched turned gold, but Murray didn't make him work for it.

At Andys age now any further blips and it will be near on impossible to make the top 4 again. Because it's not that it all rests on his form, but what of the rest of the field? How are they going to play in 2015? Nishikori, Dimitrov, Raonic all have made big strides in 2014.

[hawkeye]

Jimmy Arias on Tennis Channel yesterday was saying the players are complaining about the new blue lights the O2 or tourney is using to light up the crowd during play. In the past, the crowd was dark and was a great backdrop for serving.  He says the new blue is strange and making it harder to track and time the balls-   esp during serve.

Makes sense as clearly something was changed that has had an effect on nearly everyone's serving.  

It's crazy to play a tournament billed as so important in such conditions. How can elite players play their best as they did throughout the year to gain a place when they have to play in conditions so different from the rest of the tour? It should be moved to an outdoor venue

[Guest]

Monte Carlo?

[Guest]

The WTF does not need to be outdoors! Jeeez we have enough outdoor tournaments as it is.

[It Must Be Love]

Can't wait till it's moved to Buenos Aires.

[lags72]

The WTF does not need to be outdoors! Jeeez we have enough outdoor tournaments as it is.

Agreed LK ! Of course it doesn't ; and of course we do.

You may remember that hawkeye devoted a whole thread to this very topic just a little while ago ("So Why is the WTF Played Indoors ?")

The thread didn't gain much support then, and I still don't see any solid argument to back up HE's insistence that "it should be moved to an outdoor venue".

On that particular thread, HE got herself tied up in knots in the unconvincing attempt to counter opposing views - so much so, that her line of argument became more & more illogical. No better example than this particular gem :

"........................Also the players who are best at indoor tennis rarely get a chance to play at the WTF. Whoever wins can't really claim to be the best indoor player because they won't have had necessarily the best indoor opposition."

This seemed an odd claim to me even at first reading. But I have since taken a minute to double-check some relevant data.......

The top five indoor players over the past year (based on the ATP rolling performance index) are :

Djokovic, Cilic, Nishikori, Federer & Murray.
ALL present & correct of course here at the O2 (ok....this past week maybe not all of them have been especially correct, but that's another story ..... )

I then looked at the list of Top 20 players for indoor career titles won. And surprise, surprise .....ALL eight who have qualified for WTF appear in that Top 20 list, with the one exception of Wawrinka. Even the alternate David Ferrer sits comfortably within that list.

As so often, HE's bias & emotional perspective has got in the way of logic & fact.

[Guest]

Thing is lags don't great players find a way to win in all conditions

[sirfredperry]

LKV2 - Have to disagree with any suggestion that it would have been a good thing if Andy had not made the 02 this year.
OK, he probably cream-crackered himself getting there. But he's got himself firmly back in the top eight and got some good wins under his belts.
Those who bemoan his having to play the big boys in the upcoming quarters at the beginning of 2015 have to realise he could have been meeting them in the round of the last 16 had he not had this late-season spurt.

[temporary21]

The thing is HB for me he is now in a position of facing Nadal/Federer/Djokovic in the QFs of Slams/Masters, unless of course he has a strong showing at other events before Miami/IW maybe at Brisbane/Doha/Rotterdam/Acapulco, so again much like the back end of this year he is going to have to play a load of events to put himself in the best position to make top 4 again before IW/Miami and the Clay swing. So how much will he have left by the time Wimbledon is upon us?

I want Andy to be back at his absolute best. I really do. I don't want to put too many elements as to why his form and game stink at the moment. As many have said including LF, I never wanted him to qualify for the WTF. It was always a step too far. He literally killed himself to get there and he those matches with Robredo showed that he was not ready to tackle the best just yet.

The manner of the defeat against Federer was pathetic. Just devoid of any ideas, creativity and guts. Take nothing away from Federer, everything he touched turned gold, but Murray didn't make him work for it.

At Andys age now any further blips and it will be near on impossible to make the top 4 again. Because it's not that it all rests on his form, but what of the rest of the field? How are they going to play in 2015? Nishikori, Dimitrov, Raonic all have made big strides in 2014.

I think thats OK though. It gives Andy an achievable goal again "get back into top 4 " as opposed to "Beat Federer and Novak to world number 1". It also means he doesnt have to get as far in tournies to test his mettle against the big guns, when theyre a big more vulnerable

[temporary21]

In any case, wins for Novak and Roger today... at least they BETTER win, I want my final matrix movie showdown dammit!

Also wasnt the WTF outdoors in Houston?

[CAS]

Something that has been bothering me about the Djokovic indoor streak, wasn't the roof closed when he lost to Roger in Shanghai? Or does it have to be an indoor tournament?

[summerblues]

Good Luck Nishi!

[Jahu]

Come on Kei, don't give up.

[It Must Be Love]

Something that has been bothering me about the Djokovic indoor streak, wasn't the roof closed when he lost to Roger in Shanghai? Or does it have to be an indoor tournament?  

Thankyou for spotting this, I'll have a close look.

[Jahu]

WTF is going on in this WTF.

One sided games all over.

[It Must Be Love]

Im trying to watch the Shanghai highlights but the camera never seems to be pointing to the skies, so I can't tell if there's a roof. I can't remember from the match either at the time which is annoying.

[Jahu]

At least Anabelles hair looks like she had a rough night

[It Must Be Love]

It sounds like an indoor court.

[Silver]

He looks completely unbeatable.

[Guest]

Glad I am in the pub.

No Moët though!

[Silver]

He looks completely unbeatable.

Thanks a bunch Novak back on serve...

[It Must Be Love]

Someone has to tell Djokovic about the behaviour of tennis crowds.

[Jahu]

Keep it up Ninja.

[Silver]

Glad I am in the pub.

No Moët though!

I'm sitting here marking homework. Have one for me, LK!

I wonder what kind of pub would serve Moet...?

[CAS]

It sounds like an indoor court.

Yeah, I was pretty sure it was as I remember the commentators suggesting it was worse for Roger as he's the better all weather player, but I began to doubt it as surely they couldnt have overlooked that in the stats

[Jahu]

Glad I am in the pub.

No Moët though!

How much is Pint?

Enjoy it.

[summerblues]

Something that has been bothering me about the Djokovic indoor streak, wasn't the roof closed when he lost to Roger in Shanghai? Or does it have to be an indoor tournament?  

I imagine it would have to be an indoor tournament for them to count it. But not sure.

[lags72]

If ...sorry, when... Djoko goes on to win another WTF title here, it will surely end up as the most dominant performance in the event's history.

[Guest]

Glad I am in the pub.

No Moët though!

I'm sitting here marking homework. Have one for me, LK!

I wonder what kind of pub would serve Moet...?

One owned by Federer

[Guest]

Glad I am in the pub.

No Moët though!

How much is  Pint?

Enjoy it.

£3.50 a pint

Result

[CAS]

come on special K!!

[LuvSports!]

NISHIIIIII WAHT A POINT

[summerblues]

Nishi starting to play like the USO SF Nishi.

[LuvSports!]

HE'S HUMAN! 1-1! FIRST SET DROPPED

[Silver]

Unsurprisingly, googling 'Swiss champagne pub' didn't come up trumps there's a champagne bar in Birmingham, however! 606v2 road trip?

What a WTF debut Kei is having. Well played, sir!

[Jahu]

Kei takes second set.

You can do itttt

[It Must Be Love]

COME ON.

[summerblues]

This is the Nishi we all love.

[Jahu]

Glad I am in the pub.

No Moët though!

How much is  Pint?

Enjoy it.

£3.50 a pint

Result

Have one for Ninja on my tab

[It Must Be Love]

Sorry Socal & HM, I'm supporting Nishikori here, and if Djoko gets to the final tomorrow I will support Federer

[Jahu]

Don't be sorry, be happy

[Silver]

He'll live to regret letting those BPs slip away...

[summerblues]

I said last night that Federer was trying to get the double bagel - however he claimed in his press conference that he preferred to lose that last game and win 6-0 6-1 than 6-0 6-0.

My suspicion is that there is a very simple solution to this conundrum - Fed was not telling the truth.

[temporary21]

Nishis come back, and the crowd decided they wanted to be the third player in that second set, but Novak did very well to get through that first game and hes a break up

[LuvSports!]

game over

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