Matt Banahan - Just where do you see his best position

He's had one blinder at Inside centre, and a few not so great/rather forgetable at 13...

You cant knock his try scoring record or his passing and pace.
So i ask....where do you see his long term future.

Winger,
Outside Centre
or Inside Centre.

Personally id like to see him playing 12 for bath.
He has pace, size and handling ability that could really cause chaos in the midfield. This would also allow us to play a more tricky outside like Lowe, Waldouck etc.

That would also allow us to play our other options at wing - JSD, Ojo, Sharples, Strettle etc.
Whats your opinions

I see him as a winger capable of coming in off his wing and doing some damage in the midfield.

13 is his future position, he is wasted on the wing and a bit liable defensively, as is slow to turn and not great kicking to touch with the narrow angles.

At 13 he gets his hands on the ball, draws defenders and can make use of his great off loading ability.

Surely for a big ball carrier 12 is a more natural position than 13?

Driving the bus.

So that's England's World Cup plan - offload to the guy in the bus who will punch a hole in the midfield and will jump out to score after he crosses the try line!

He could always move back to Lock

For England: Banahan is not test class. England have better wingers and it's only a dearth of class centres that sees him anywhere near the team.

For club: Anywhere Bath think they can use him. He probably performs best at wing or 12.

still can't see why people say Banahan is not international class - are you muppets blind or something? The guy is getting switched around in positions and is still performing and causing problems for oppositions??

What does he have to do for you lot to see he is a handy player for the England side, win it on his own???

For me I like the idea of wing and coming in searching for it, but he also has shown that at 12 he is a good ball carrier and sucks in defenders, give a few dummy runs and miss passes and he will open up the defence for others as well. SO he is looking like a good utility player for the England side. I am sure his place is booked on the plane down south bar a terrible run up or injury.

Wingers going out I hope you get: Cueto, Ashton, Strettle, JSD as wingers and Banahan (to cover wing and center positions)

I really don't enjoy seeing Banahan play as I still think he is very one dimensional, devoid of much skill other than his size. However I can see his uses, so for me his best position is on the wing, but he has to put in the work to get on the ball and track the play. However on the wing I can't see him starting past Ashton, Cueto and all the other young wingers.

To me there is no point playing him at Outside centere as Tindall is big enough, and with the recent emergence of Manu Tuilangi, I think England wouldn't need a big outside centre as they have got two already.

mr scotland - your one of these people that can't see past his size. if you do watch him you will notice he has much more to his game.

He has a great long pass, his pop pass and off load is very good, he sucks in defenders, he actually has pace, his counter rucking is very good as well, and in the air for high balls and re-starts he's spot on.

To say he is just a battering ram shows you haven't noticed the nuances to his game.

I agree with you that Ashton and Cueto are starting ahead of him on the wing. But he serves a great purpose as a utility player and I don't think he's far behind taking Cueto's spot. But as 12/13 I can see him making a big difference. Hape for me has underperformed and as reliable as Tindal is, it looks like Banahan can do his job, better and with more to his game. A center partnership with Manu Tuilagi would be very destructive indeed!

Admittedly I have seen once or twice every game do somehting skillful, but in the Baa Baa's game, especially in the second half he was'nt nearly as good as he should. Basteraud had the better of him in the second half along with all the other massive Barbarian backs.

I know he is capable of some sumblime moments, but for me these are just to far and few between. I also have to agree that Hape probably isnt up to International standard, but for Irish next season there could be an interesting centre partenship between him and Joe Ansboro. Presonally I hope thay both do well.

I think your right about the partnership between Ansbro and Hape being a good one, they are quite similar players.

His best position is wing. Rather like Sean Lamont for us a few seasons back and Ben Cohen at England, big guys like these thrive on the wing as it gives them the positional freedom to pick their forays into the opposition line, and it also allows them to exploit classic mismatches in size. You move guys like this further inside, then you negate their effectiveness.

Dean Ryan did a good piece on Banahan at 12 on the weekend, showing strengths and weaknesses. Possibly the most effective piece of play was when they cut him out. The defence were sucked in, two men were allocated to tackle him and it creates an overlap (which was ultimately squandered). He's a decent carrier, and he ran through Michalak a couple of times, but frankly against the top sides in the World, I'm not sure that avenue will be open.

I rate Banahan highly. But I would have him replace Cueto rather than Hape.

Thats what I think too Scot. Let him come off his wing every now and then but mainly stay on the wing.

Bench is his best position. He is not really a rugby player but a big useless tattooed oaf. Bring him on the wing for the last 10 minutes when everyone is wrecked and he may make an impact due to his size. Sorry if you don't like this but I genuinely believe he is useless and am surprised he has England caps.

Banahan is a player who can Tie up defenders without even doing anything. You'll find when a big lumbering brute like him is in the back line wether on the wing or in the Centre most teams will try to double up on him mostly with a loose forward as to not de-stabalize the back line.

Banahan is a player I too rate really highly and expect to see him playing for Engand for a long time.

It's actually against the rules of rugby to tie people up but I reckon Banahan would still fail to make an impact. Maybe if he drugged the opposition as well.

funnyExiledScot wrote:His best position is wing. Rather like Sean Lamont for us a few seasons back and Ben Cohen at England, big guys like these thrive on the wing as it gives them the positional freedom to pick their forays into the opposition line, and it also allows them to exploit classic mismatches in size. You move guys like this further inside, then you negate their effectiveness.

Tim Visser is certainly the new big winger after an exceptional match for Baa Baa's, he will qualify for scotland in time for the 6N next year which will be great.

He's a serious talent isn't he. And so young as well. I suspect that he will leave Edinburgh and look for a bigger and better club after earning Scottish caps. He can command a much better salary and standard of team mates than is on offer in Edinburgh (no offense to them).

red_stag wrote:He's a serious talent isn't he. And so young as well. I suspect that he will leave Edinburgh and look for a bigger and better club after earning Scottish caps. He can command a much better salary and standard of team mates than is on offer in Edinburgh (no offense to them).

Unfortuneately that probably means him going to france, but you are right Stag, I cant wait til he turns from the flying Dutchman to the flying Scotsman.

France or possibly England. I could see him at a place like Saints or Bath or Tigers just as easily as France.

Imagine a back 3 of Foden, Visser and Ashton

That would be a formidable back three if he went to Saints, or indeed any English team.

mmmmmmm Viser, Biggs/Banhan and Bendy

Most Scottish international play abroad anyway. I wrote an article during the 6 Nations about Scotlands culture of mediocrity saying that most of their best players simply leave.

There are not that many in the national set up right now that play abroad, I can only think of Hines, Ansboro, Brown and both Lamonts.

Are you serious? Of your 40 man World Cup squad there are 16 playing abroad with more like Vernon and Max Evans to follow. Here's almost an entire team.

Dickinson, S.Lawson, Murray
Hines, Kellock
Brown, Number8? Strokosch
R.Lawson, Parks
Danielli, S.Lamont, Ansboro, Southwell, Walker

red_stag wrote:
Dickinson, S.Lawson, Murray
Hines, Kellock
Brown, Number8? Strokosch
R.Lawson, Parks
Danielli, S.Lamont, Ansboro, Southwell, Walker

Dickinson, lawson havent played for scotland in a while, Kellock still plays at the warriors, there are a few more than I could remember at the time but not more than half of a world cup squad, but admittedly more will leave.

Visser is probably the best winger in the NH now. Class act.

606 is dead - long live 606

Hello!

Kellock I meant Hamilton.

Ohh right I undeerstand Stag

The current Scotland side looks something like this (based on the 6 Nations and assuming injured players like Cusiter and Beattie would come back in):

1.Chunk 2.Ford 3.Cross 4.Gray 5.Kellock 6.Brown 7.Barclay 8.Beattie 9.Cusiter 10.Jackson 11.Danielli 12.Lamont 13.Ansbro 14.Evans 15.CP

That's 5 exiles and 10 Scotland based players.

So no, it's not true to say that most of the 1st XV play abroad. However, I think the trend will shift to 50/50 in the next few years.

Looks like quite a strong side, it is just if they all play well at the same time.

"Visser is probably the best winger in the NH now. Class act.."

Really? Hes improving definately, but not sure hes the best in the NH.

Not bad for a guy who couldnt make it in the AP

Agreed Geordie - I'm not ready quite yet to get on this Visser bandwagon. He's a strong runner and a good finisher, but as for best in the NH, not for me.

Were he Scots qualified, I think there's still a debate as to whether he gets in ahead of Danielli and Evans. Possibly just ahead of Danielli, but he's not as good as his current hype. There was similar hype when he started playing at Newcastle, and it faded.

ExileScot

Yeah we thought we had something quite special on our hands...but he just didnt quite get there...maybe at one of the better clubs he may have developed alot better who knows...our academy generally is one of the best around for bringing youth through.

If he continues to improve as he has recently...then he could be a very good player...he certainly has the attributes...and i for one would hope he does get there....after all we all want to see the best players playing...

Agreed.

One thing that annoyed me on Sunday was Barnes' comment after Visser's second try - he said that Visser tracking play was "a la Ashton".

Grrrrrr... Firstly Visser has been scoring tries in top level rugby union far longer than Chris Ashton. Secondly, Chris Ashton is not the inventor of wing play whereby a winger comes off the wing and tracks play to score tries. Habana, and many before him, have long perfected that art form to a far higher standard than Chris Ashton.

Next we'll see a big hit from a second row and it'll be "a la Lawes", or a counter attack from a full back "a la Foden".

GeordieFalcon wrote:"Visser is probably the best winger in the NH now. Class act.."

Really? Hes improving definately, but not sure hes the best in the NH.

Not bad for a guy who couldnt make it in the AP

Top try scorer in the ML two years in a row. In fairness he played for Newcastle when in England. Even the great Jonny Wilkinson struggled at Newcastle. Also a change of scene can sometimes be what a good player needs to take their career up a notch.

Tommy Bowe to the Ospreys! Anyway I really can't think of a NH winger who is better than him.

Also Visser is much more talented than Matt Banahan or Cueto. He would walk into the England team.

You think so leinsterbaby? that's a bit of a big claim to make! Can't see him making it past Cueto with all the experience he has, and Banahan at least has experience at test level so would get in ahead of him too in my opinion. No doubt Visser is a huge talent, and I hope he gets more opportunities soon to prove himself at international level.

I disagree. I don't think he'd walk into the England team. Plenty competition there - Strettle, Moyne, JS-D, Ojo, Varndell, Banahan, Cueto, Ashton, Sharples....

I think he'd be in contention based on his form this season, but several of the names above have also been very good.

As I said above, it's not clear he'd walk straight into the Scotland team. I'm sure he'll be given a chance, but I hope the expectations are realistic if or when it comes.

rugbydreamer wrote:You think so leinsterbaby? that's a bit of a big claim to make! Can't see him making it past Cueto with all the experience he has, and Banahan at least has experience at test level so would get in ahead of him too in my opinion. No doubt Visser is a huge talent, and I hope he gets more opportunities soon to prove himself at international level.

Not really a big claim having watched all three of those players regularly over the last couple of seasons. Cueto and Banahan are quite predictable, fairly sluggish and uninspiring wingers. Neither are very prolific in their own leagues albeit Banahan picked up around 8 this year which is quite a few less than Visser in the ML.

Its is not really Vissers fault that he is untested at international level however in his first international scoring two against England is a good start. He has far more strings to his bow that Cueto and Banahan. Lots of pace and power, burned Tommy Bowe for what should have been the try of the season. He has a real eye for the line and is undoubtedly one of the most exciting wingers around.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I disagree. I don't think he'd walk into the England team. Plenty competition there - Strettle, Moyne, JS-D, Ojo, Varndell, Banahan, Cueto, Ashton, Sharples....

I think he'd be in contention based on his form this season, but several of the names above have also been very good.

As I said above, it's not clear he'd walk straight into the Scotland team. I'm sure he'll be given a chance, but I hope the expectations are realistic if or when it comes.

I perhaps wouldn't pick him ahead of Ashton but he is easily as good if not better than the rest. As for the Scotland team. Danielli has shown some good form lately but Robinson would be mad not to get him involved in some capacity.

Visser did have an exceptional performance for the Baa Baa's in an incredibly talented back line. He is a very well rounded player whereas others in the NH have faults he is very solid but often not as exciting.

I agree that he should be given a chance if he wants it, as and when he qualifies.

He's certainly done enough to be ahead of the Lamonts and Walker in the wings pecking order, and Max Evans is having all sorts of off field dramas at the moment.

Not sure I'd go as far as to describe Visser's Baa Baas performance as "exceptional". The second try was well taken, but the first was really a defensive error (and a pretty bad one). Overall he played well, but I wouldn't describe it as "exceptional". He was certainly quiet in the first half, perhaps through no fault of his own, but still quiet.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Not sure I'd go as far as to describe Visser's Baa Baas performance as "exceptional". The second try was well taken, but the first was really a defensive error (and a pretty bad one). Overall he played well, but I wouldn't describe it as "exceptional". He was certainly quiet in the first half, perhaps through no fault of his own, but still quiet.

He didnt make any mistakes, scored two wel taken try's and shone in a back line full of stars. Also made the England wingers look average.

Simply not making mistakes isn't a criterion for an "exceptional" performance.

I've explained my view on the tries. The second was well taken, the first was lucky. JS-D went missing.

As for the "shone" comment, that doesn't actually say anything beyond your opinion. In what way did he "shine"? Didn't really notice him in the first half, and in the second, the whole Baa Baas team played well - didn't think Visser was particularly more prominent than the others. Yes, he scored so obviously gets his name mentioned because of that, but I wouldn't go much beyond say he played well.