Kolbs Trade Value

Read an interesting article earlier on the espn site
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=6586667

Just wondering what people think of Kolbs trade value when free agency eventually opens? It looking likely to me that hel either end up in either Arizona or Seattle.

IMO hes only played 7 games and despite showing flashes of potential, no team should give up more than 2 seconds for him (a deal similar to Schaubs). Talk of more than a first and for me both of these teams should look at the cheaper and more proven Orton

Three interesting QB values this year, McNabb, VY and Kolb, the first that gets done will set the tone for the others I think.

Brian Shannon on Bleacher Report says "The Eagles will likely command two second-round picks or a first-round pick and another pick for Kolb's services and I'm not convinced he is worth that." I don't see why he's worth more than Orton, he may be 2 years younger but he is much less proven, there's plenty of tape for you to watch Orton, the same can't be said for Kolb. Michael Lombardi believes the Browns may trade for him (I really hope we don't) and use the 1st rounder we've got from the Falcons.

He does have similar stats as when Schaub was traded, and had a few good games, like Schaub. Not sold on him personally, and wouldnt give 2 2nds for him in a millions years. However if some coach sees some real talent in him, then they may get 2 2nds.

Agreed derby on Orton being worth more. But I think people seem to think Kolb can be a franchise QB to build around, but Orton is a good stop gap, for a team that is just a stable QB away from being contenders.

Orton was also nothing more than a mediocre game manager prior to McDaniels. Just saying. A system that also largely made Tebow look decent

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:Orton was also nothing more than a mediocre game manager prior to McDaniels. Just saying. A system that also largely made Tebow look decent

Not sure if i agree with that. Not too much deifference since he started in last season at Bears. Just steady improvement, and maybe part of that is they new system. Think he is, and has always been a good game manager, and with more games behind him is improving slightly, just doesnt have a high ceiling.

I think a 2nd and a 3rd would be fair but due to the desperation of both the cards and hawks to grab a qb hel probably go for 2 2nd maybe even more

and on orton i feel kolb upside is a lot higher but so is his downside. So i guess its a risk either way.

Orton may have less upside, but surely he has nowhere near as much downside, I believe he's proven he's a good QB, what happens if you give up a 1st (or more) for Kolb and he continues to throw more INT's than TD's. Team's can at least study Orton's game tape and understand how he plays and already start on developing a play book for him, this would be much harder to do for Kolb.

He's proven he can put up decent numbers in McDaniels' spread offense. And he can be a decent game manager in Chicago. Kolb at least can start for a number of years, Orton is a stop gap at best for me

Kolb could start for a number of years, he could just as easily spend his career as a back up. Orton has at least shown what he can do, this allows team management to already be developing a new play book (if they are interested in him) and this then allows him to be your starter for a number of years.

Andy Reid believed his team had a better chance of winning the SB with Kolb at QB than Donovan McNabb. Then he lost his job because Vick played at an MVP level.

The Broncos organisation believe Tebow gives them a better chance than Orton.

Take from that what you will.

Look at how McNabb played last season though, plus also look at the fact that he still didn't help you win the Super Bowl, and without Vick you probably wouldn't have even made the post season.

Have you actually heard the Broncos organisation say that? Because I haven't. I've heard a lot of specualtion saying they should start Tebow, but this decision can be influenced by trying to get value out of one of their quarterbacks while they have the possibility to trade. They will also be aware that neither Tebow or Orton is getting them a Super Bowl trophy any time soon.

The sheer fact that Orton is available and Tebow is.

McNabb was thrown into one of the worst run and least talented teams in the league. And an offense that wasn't suited to him at all. Last year is a horrible example as opposed to how he was on the Eagles.

Broncos were rudey poo with Orton in any case. Tebow looked somewhat competitive at times.

I'll assume that was meant to be and Tebow isn't, but that's the point we don't know either one is available, it's just rumours that people are interested in trading for Orton. Also Orton threw for over 3,500 yards or in other words close to double Kolb's career yardage.

Ok compare McNabb and Kolb in the Eagles offence, which looks better? Clearly McNabb.

No smoke without fire etc, Broncos are clearly interested in seeing what they can move Orton for, at the very least. Kolb is openly on the market.

And yet Andy Reid, who loved McNabb and has been around several high calibre QBs, felt comfortable moving McNabb on to a division rival.

Smoke machines?

"We don't know either one is available" was aimed at the Broncos quarterbacks. They may be interested to see what they can get in return for Orton, but that's different to him being available, I think if Kolb goes for a 1st round pick Orton will become available.

And yet one year on he's ready to get rid of Kolb, maybe he felt comfortable about it because he knew the Redskins would still be rubbish and McNabb is starting to get towards the end of his career and so was happy to take two draft picks.

Kolb has 1 year left on his deal, and Vick is the guy.

If Orton wasn't available there would be no rumours.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82007570/article/media-has-manufactured-hype-around-whatif-guy-kolb?module=HP_cp2
interesting take on kolbs value by vic carucci

I don't see how such an unproven QB can be getting such a high value put on his head. Needs of teams may be pushing his value up slightly yes, but if Kolb is worth a 1st of 2 2nd's then what is Orton worth, the same?? He is more proven in my eyes. I think teams will be put of with the value the Eagles are expecting. McNabb would probably be available for a 3rd at most nwoadays, so teams could turn to him as a stop gap. Or focus on trying to get Andrew luck in next years draft!

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:The sheer fact that Orton is available and Tebow is.

McNabb was thrown into one of the worst run and least talented teams in the league. And an offense that wasn't suited to him at all. Last year is a horrible example as opposed to how he was on the Eagles.

Broncos were rudey poo with Orton in any case. Tebow looked somewhat competitive at times.

First I think that they have to stick with Tebow, as they invested a first round pick, and the contract on him. Of course they have to beleive he has the tools to be a star.

On McNabb, unfortunetly i have to agree that the Redskins are the one of, if not the, worst run teams in the league. But McNabb suited the system. Unfortunetly, he was was the most rushed QB in the game, with a bad receiving core. He was on track to break the Redskins passing yards record. Now with his fall out with Kyle Shanahan, and being bench here is no way he can stay.

Yeh but Tebow was drafted by Mcdaniels who has now left! I think Tebow should be the starter as i think he could make it!! Mcnabb would be a good pickup for a team imo, got a raw deal in Washington

I see them trading Orton and starting Tebow, but I don't think it's what I would do, but I guess it all depends on the offers they've said they won't take anything less than a 2nd round for Orton. Heard discussions of McNabb to Vikings, I think everyone's expecting him to be cut if they can't get anything for him.

I've never really understood the debates around what players are worth in terms of draft picks. A draft pick isn't any guarantee of value so saying someone is worth a 1st or 2 2nds doesn't really mean anything. Yes the probability is there that a player who goes in the 1st round is likely to be better than an undrafted player but there are lots of examples where this isn't the case. As an example would you rather have Kevin Kolb or Jake Locker with both worth a 1st round pick?

yes but jake locker wasn't supposed to be drafted in the first round according to most analysts!

And analysts had Jimmy Clausen as a top 5 pick. Ignore the analysts. What matters is what NFL teams think.

I don't think I would take either of the two, but it's really more about the person you can get with that 1st round pick they could end up getting the 1st pick of the draft, or they may end up in the middle picks where there isn't a quarterback good enough to be taken and they get to strengthen one of their other positions before taking a quarterback in the later rounds.

The analysts also had Gabbert as a potential number 1 pick, and Kolb as a 3rd/4th rounder.

And Kolb at this point probably looks the best QB of that class.

A 1st at this point isnt close to being worth the same pick on draft day

Well Tyler Thigpen has almost double the TD's but only 3 more INT's, and 1,000 extra yards, and Trent Edwards has over 6,000 yards, 26 TD's and 30 INT's.

i just don't know what Kolb has done to warrant a 1st round pick, he wasn't great for the eagles he had a couple of decent games the only thing that is pushing him up to a 1st is teams in need of QB like Arizona, and other teams that don't have a decent starter. Trading a 1st for Kolb is like reaching for a Locker or a Ponder in the 1st.

I would prefer Orton since leaving chicago he put up great numbers for the majority of the year with a poor team around him. Whereas Kolb didn't do all that well with Jackson, Maclin, Mccoy, etc!

GB1919 wrote:I've never really understood the debates around what players are worth in terms of draft picks. A draft pick isn't any guarantee of value so saying someone is worth a 1st or 2 2nds doesn't really mean anything. Yes the probability is there that a player who goes in the 1st round is likely to be better than an undrafted player but there are lots of examples where this isn't the case. As an example would you rather have Kevin Kolb or Jake Locker with both worth a 1st round pick?

What I meant by that is that If you got a QB in the first round a year ago, and he hasnt had much time on the field, it would be silly to persue another QB unless you think he can't win games for you, and that the organisation made a big error drafting him. But it is too early to tell if he is a bust or not, far too early.

Also I would rather have Locker than Kolb. I dont buy this Kolb is a proven QB, as he is not. To put it into context. JeMarcus Russel had a better QB rating in his year as starter than Kolb had last year. Although Kolb is obviously better than that, he isnt a sure thing, and If i could pick either locker or kolb on same contract id pick locker.

Tyler Thigpen is a 3rd string QB who is also a free agent. Trent Edwards is 3rd string behind Garrard and Gabbert and got released by the Bills.

Drew Brees also had his best year in terms of yards when the defense sucked and he was throwing from behind a lot.

Locker might be debatable, but Ponder at 12 over Kolb? Seeing as hes basically an inferior version of Kolb.

If im honest i dont even see locker as debatable. 55% completion in college???? Kolb despite being unproven is definetly better than that

Value wise i wouldn't trade for Kolb take Mcnabb who had a raw deal last year, see how you go with him and if you don't do to well then draft a QB next year! But like people say if you are sure that Kolb is your guy and will be a great player give away a 1st i just wouldn't like to make that call!

yer id agree with that mcnabb offers pretty good value. I heard someone saty he could go for a 5th which for me is a bargain. but kolb is younger and could be the face of eiher the cards or hawks franchise so for me hesn definetly worth 2 2nds

yeh i wont dispute the fact that if you think he will be a good QB for a team then yeh 2 2nd's is a bargain! I just really don't think he is that good of a QB, but he probably will go for that. I really think the logical thing for a team to do is get Mcnabb and then next year trade up if you really think you need a QB

No the logical thing is to trade for the guy if you believe in him. No idea what next years class will look like.

Andrew Luck was the consensus no 1 pick this year but chose to go back to college for another year, don't know much about him but from what i've heard he is supposed to be brilliant!

Locker was meant to be the number one pick this year after he chose not to declare for last years draft where some said he could have been in contention to be the number 1 pick while others said he wouldn't be taken in the first round, he went 8th this year but everyone says that was a reach for him. You can't just say "If we do badly we get Luck." There can be any number of reasons that mean Luck isn't available in the next draft.

The only logical reason to trade for Kolb (or anyone) is if you think he improves your team, and you can afford the price of the trade, and the contract, it's too hard to predict who you would be able to choose with the picks you're giving up.

If you don't have a QB, you aren't winning the SB.

If you don't have a guy and agree with Andy Reid and think that Kolb can be that guy, then trade for him.

miket281017 wrote:Andrew Luck was the consensus no 1 pick this year but chose to go back to college for another year, don't know much about him but from what i've heard he is supposed to be brilliant!

He is pretty good, very efficient and a class above those that came out this year... but Locker was a "consensus" number one if he had chosen to come out the Sam Bradford year (partly because Bradford had spent the year injured) and his stock plummeted.
With his coach now at the 49ers, it will be interesting to see how he gets on this year in the Pac-12, but I like what I see.

It's the change that is putting some teams off, ok 1 or2 sides who are desperate for a QB may cough up a 1st but the change part a 3rd/4th may be just too rich. For me Kolb is proven, the Eagles let McNabb go as they thought Kolb was there guy with Vick is back up, but Vick won the starting slot. I would say Kolb would be worth at least a 2nd rounder in 2012 with maybe a 4th in 2013, plus there is an option to swap picks around, i.e. if the Eagles finish with a better record than the team Kolb is drafted to, the Eagles can swap 1st rounders, however, if the team finishes with quite a poor record inside the top 10 then they could swap 3rd rounder's instead.

At the end of the day, you have to get a QB. Should the Cards get Kolb, they'd probably win the NFC West, and from that point of view, the best pick the Eagles could get would be #24. Is the 24th pick such a large price, when teams have spent the 8th and 12th on prospects like Locker and Ponder respectfully?

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:At the end of the day, you have to get a QB. Should the Cards get Kolb, they'd probably win the NFC West, and from that point of view, the best pick the Eagles could get would be #24. Is the 24th pick such a large price, when teams have spent the 8th and 12th on prospects like Locker and Ponder respectfully?

true, id completley agree as long as kolb doesnt turn out to be a massive bust the cards should win the division next year. 24th would probably be a decent price but kolbs value for me has dropped with a lot of teams going for qbs in the draft. i really cant see another destination for kolb other than ariozna and seahawks (and it looks like theyl go 4 hassleback again. maybe miami, so i think that also atributes to his value

The Cards and Seahawks have also declared where they stand with regards to their QB situations by not drafting one. Everyone knows the Cards have to get a guy.

I wouldn't rule out the Browns. Heckert, their GM, loves Kolb, and McCoy has a fairly shallow ceiling for me.

wouldnt rukle it out but it seems preety unlikely one things for sure the longer the lockout goes the more his value will drop.

i could seee a situation where the eagles keep him becauser there no decent offers on the table, but that of course depends how stubborn reid is