Scotland 6N lookahead

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Fixtures

07/02 France V Scotland - 17:00
15/02 Scotland V Wales - 15:00

28/02 Scotland V Italy - 14:30

14/03 England V Scotland - 17:00
21/03 Scotland V Ireland - 14:30


6N standings last 10 years

2014 - 5th, 1 win
2013 - 3rd, 2 wins
2012 - 6th, 0 wins
2011 - 5th, 1 win
2010 - 5th, 1 win
2009 - 5th, 1 win
2008 - 5th, 1 win
2007 - 6th, 1 win
2006 - 3rd, 3 wins
2005 - 5th, 1 win

Squad

FORWARDS: Hugh Blake (Edinburgh Rugby), Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors), Blair Cowan, Geoff Cross (both London Irish), David Denton, Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby), Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Castres), Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby), Jim Hamilton (Saracens), Rob Harley, Euan Murray, Gordon Reid (all Glasgow Warriors), Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan), Ben Toolis, Hamish Watson (both Edinburgh Rugby), Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors).

BACKS: Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors), Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Dunbar, (Glasgow Warriors) Dougie Fife (Edinburgh Rugby), Stuart Hogg, Peter Horne (both Glasgow Warriors) Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester), Sean Lamont, Sean Maitland, Henry Pyrgos, Finn Russell (all Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors), Greig Tonks, Tim Visser (both Edinburgh Rugby).

Unavailable through injury: Adam Ashe (neck), Chris Fusaro (ankle), Grant Gilchrist (arm), Tyrone Holmes (face), Ruaridh Jackson (knee), Duncan Taylor (hamstring), Duncan Weir (arm).

On a side note, I see that Alex Grove was playing for Worcester A last night in their A league final against Saracens.

Now, to be fair to him he may just be coming back from injury or something like that, but that is a big fall from grace for him - gone from playing international rugby to playing for the A team of a Championship side in the space of a few years!

Incidentally that game had over 4000 people watching - that's more than what Edinburgh get!

Nobody knows what the alternatives were to him re-signing for Wuss. Perhaps he didn't have any.

He is the kind of player that I really wouldn't mind getting hoovered by the likes of Bristol (who seem likely to finally make the step-up to the Jeff this year). Players in losing set-ups get used to losing, unfortunately.

His fall from international rugby was so dramatic I wondered whether he'd said or done something to provoke it!

I'd have him at Edinburgh in a flash. We could use a good SQ option in the centres - Strauss and Dominguez are not better than Alex Grove.

How are we looking for injuries? Gilchrist and Weir are definitely out for the entire 6 Nations. Harley and Hogg are doubts for the first game at least. Not sure what's happening with Pyrgos and Ashe. Any others?

I'd be interested in your thoughts on the rough 32-man squad I'd like to see below - will/should it be selected?

LH - Dickinson, Grant, Reid
Hooker - Ford, MacArthur, F Brown
TH - Murray, Welsh, Cusack
Locks - Gray x 2, Swinson, Toolis
Backrow - Harley, Brown, Barclay, Cowan, Beattie, Denton
SH - Laidlaw (c), Cusiter, Sam H-C
FH - Russell, Heathcote
Centres - Scott, Dunbar, Horne, Bennett
Back three - Hogg, Maitland, Visser, Seymour

Honourable mentions to Tonks and Sean Lamont.

Captain_Sensible wrote:How are we looking for injuries? Gilchrist and Weir are definitely out for the entire 6 Nations. Harley and Hogg are doubts for the first game at least. Not sure what's happening with Pyrgos and Ashe. Any others?

I'd be interested in your thoughts on the rough 32-man squad I'd like to see below - will/should it be selected?

LH - Dickinson, Grant, Reid
Hooker - Ford, MacArthur, F Brown
TH - Murray, Welsh, Cusack
Locks - Gray x 2, Swinson, Toolis
Backrow - Harley, Brown, Barclay, Cowan, Beattie, Denton
SH - Laidlaw (c), Cusiter, Sam H-C
FH - Russell, Heathcote
Centres - Scott, Dunbar, Horne, Bennett
Back three - Hogg, Maitland, Visser, Seymour

Honourable mentions to Tonks and Sean Lamont.

Looks about right, if form is anything to go by then Toolis must have a good chance on inclusion. Don't think Horne will get picked in place of Taylor.

I thought Gilchrist was aiming to be back in time for the 6ns! is this no longer a possibility?

If he is not back for the 6ns and the Gray bros continue their functioning partnership then Gilchrist could be waiting a long old time to get back into the team!

tigertattie wrote:I thought Gilchrist was aiming to be back in time for the 6ns! is this no longer a possibility?

If he is not back for the 6ns and the Gray bros continue their functioning partnership then Gilchrist could be waiting a long old time to get back into the team!

I'm pretty sure he won't be back before the end of March. Forgot about Fusaro, too - he won't be available for the tournament.

Gilchrist might struggle to get back into the first team when he's fit, but I'd definitely have him on the bench. I'd be happy to stick with Laidlaw as captain, with Gray Jnr assuming the role in the long term.

Taylor has been playing consistently and well for Sarries and must be a stone heavier than Horne. No way he won't make the squad unless Schlong elbows his way ahead (which is possible, of course).

MacKnocked-on wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:How are we looking for injuries? Gilchrist and Weir are definitely out for the entire 6 Nations. Harley and Hogg are doubts for the first game at least. Not sure what's happening with Pyrgos and Ashe. Any others?

I'd be interested in your thoughts on the rough 32-man squad I'd like to see below - will/should it be selected?

LH - Dickinson, Grant, Reid
Hooker - Ford, MacArthur, F Brown
TH - Murray, Welsh, Cusack
Locks - Gray x 2, Swinson, Toolis
Backrow - Harley, Brown, Barclay, Cowan, Beattie, Denton
SH - Laidlaw (c), Cusiter, Sam H-C
FH - Russell, Heathcote
Centres - Scott, Dunbar, Horne, Bennett
Back three - Hogg, Maitland, Visser, Seymour

Honourable mentions to Tonks and Sean Lamont.

Looks about right, if form is anything to go by then Toolis must have a good chance on inclusion. Don't think Horne will get picked in place of Taylor.

It is diffiuclt to guess the back row composition because we just don't know what is happening with Brown and Barclay. It makes perfect sense to pick them, but if you replace their names with Kieran Low and Strokosh our backrow suddenly doesn't look so strong (especially since Harley is out the first 1 or 2 games).

I'd agree on Taylor over Horne, although Horne might be seen to be able to cover 10 (a big gamble).  I reckon Tonks will make it for his versatility and if he keeps imprivng his performances at 10 as he has been doing of late.

I'd also be surprised if Cusak came straight in, especially if Cross is playing regularly for LI.

Also, I think Bennett is still a doubt, and we'll surely see Pyrgos over S-H-C....

I'd make the following changes CS:

TH - Cross ahead of Cusack. Cross is playing regularly for LI and has international experience. Cusack is only just finding his way back from a long long injury break. Too soon for the Coo. Cross would be ahead of Welsh as well.

Backrow - I like your choices, but with Harley likely out injured I'd pick Ali Hogg for the reasons discussed many times. In fact even with Harley fit, I'd pick Hogg over Beattie who I understand isn't getting much of a look in over in France.

SH - Pyrgos ahead of SH-C, for now.

FH - switch Tonks and Heathcote. Tonks covering 15 is handy plus he's established ahead of Heathcote at Edinburgh.

Centres - I believe Bennett is out so I'd replace with Taylor.

Aw forget about Ali Hogg....he's rubbish. Not even worth looking at....NEXT

GeordieFalcon wrote:Aw forget about Ali Hogg....he's rubbish. Not even worth looking at....NEXT

Won't he be off to Leicester soon anyway? Isn't that where useful Falcons players graduate??

I think that the 6N's will tell us a lot about Jamesie Cotter. Possibly the most important thing will be whether he is still in thrall to Rab C.
Also, assuming he has the core of his WC squad already settled in his mind does he view the 6N's as
(a) a stand alone tournament where the onus is to play your strongest side each game and do as well as possible
   or
(b) one last chance to look at players who could possibly make the WC squad.

If he goes with (a) and we have a good tournament then I would suggest that people like; Bennett, Harley, Weir, Cusack, Strauss, Gilchrist, Fusaro, K Brown, Barclay, Hidalgo- Montoya, Ruaridh Jackson and A Hogg will find it next to impossible to break into the WC squad.
If , however, he goes with (b) then those on the above list who are fit may well have an opportunity to stake their claim.

Adapting the Captain's list;
LH - Dickinson, Grant, Reid
Hooker - Ford, MacArthur, F Brown
TH - Murray, Welsh, Cusack Given Sunday games ruling out the Rev can we take Wee Mike if he hasn't played in the 6N's? I would have Dr Cross ahead of the Rev
Locks - Gray x 2, Swinson, Toolis Gilchrist?
Backrow - Harley, Brown, Barclay, Cowan, Beattie, DentonWill Harley be back to fitness and form? Will KB or Barcs return Lazarus like at the last moment?
SH - Laidlaw (c), Cusiter, Sam H-C Unless Hidalgo-Montoya plays a big part in the 6N's then Henners Piecrust must go.
FH - Russell, HeathcoteUndercoat isn't starting for the MFL so why put him in the squad?
Centres - Scott, Dunbar, Horne, Bennett Bennett won't play in the 6N's , so do we rest Scott Dunbar and look at other options, or wait till one or both of them are injured just before the end of the season? Horne-Taylor for me.
Back three - Hogg, Maitland, Visser, Seymour

Honourable mentions to Tonks and Sean Lamont.

If we are doing whole teams!

Dickenson - Ford - Cross
Gray - Gray
Brown - Hogg - Cowan

Laidlaw
Russell

Scott - Dunbar

Visser - Hogg - Seymour

Thanks, all. Interesting comments.

I kind of agree on Cross over Cusack. Wishful thinking on my part, perhaps, to select The Coo so soon. However, I'd certainly have Jon Welsh in the squad. He's an excellent scrummager.

Re Taylor over Horne, I'm not so sure. I have yet to see Taylor offer much at international level beyond a bit of fairly average bosh. Horne has had a few wobbly matches for Scotland but he's a far more rounded player. He's got the intelligence to unpick defences, and his 10/12 versatility will be a good option. As for Bennett, I thought he was due to be back for this weekend's Montpellier game? Same with Pyrgos if The Scotsman is to be believed.

I agree the backrow is a bit of a headache. Given the injuries to Harley and Fusaro, and the poor form/low-level status of Stroker, Low and *sigh* Rennie, it would be madness not to pick Brown and Barclay. I'd love Ashe to be fit, but Denton has played well so far this season.

I know there is a lot of love for Ally Hogg on this forum, but I think that ship has sailed. I admit, I haven't seen him play for the Falcons much over the last few seasons, but you guys should probably recognise that he's not going to get another cap. Denton and Beattie are good options, Ashe is developing faster than probably anyone hoped fork, and Strauss is just round the corner. Let it go, guys.

tigertattie wrote:If we are doing whole teams!

Dickenson - Ford - Cross
Gray - Gray
Brown - Hogg - Cowan

Laidlaw
Russell

Scott - Dunbar

Visser - Hogg - Seymour

With Harley looking like he wont play the first game this is probably the team I would go with as well. All of them in pretty good form with Ally Hogg in the form of his life at the moment.
For the bench I would have Fraser Brown, Gordon Reid, Euan Murray, Tim Swinson, Johnnie Beattie, Chris Cusiter, Greig Tonks, Sean Lamont.
Would pick Johnnie Beattie just over Dave Denton as Beattie has been playing pretty well for Castres this season. They have a rotation policy there which is the reason for him not always appearing in the team. Would have Lamont over Maitland aswell due to Lamont covering centre and his good impact from the bench.

Captain_Sensible wrote:However, I'd certainly have Jon Welsh in the squad. He's an excellent scrummager.

Well Dickinson handed his arse to him over both 1872 legs, so I worry what would happen at international level!

Captain_Sensible wrote:

Re Taylor over Horne, I'm not so sure. I have yet to see Taylor offer much at international level beyond a bit of fairly average bosh. Horne has had a few wobbly matches for Scotland but he's a far more rounded player. He's got the intelligence to unpick defences, and his 10/12 versatility will be a good option.

Whenever Horne has played for Scotland he has A) been a speed bump in defence, and B) made little to no ground in attack.

I just don't think he'll ever cut it at International level.

I agree that Taylor has been a bit solid yet unspectacular, but I'd rather that (with creative players around him) than someone who is a bit of a liability.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Aw forget about Ali Hogg....he's rubbish. Not even worth looking at....NEXT

Won't he be off to Leicester soon anyway? Isn't that where useful Falcons players graduate??  

Not anymore FES...those days are gone.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Aw forget about Ali Hogg....he's rubbish. Not even worth looking at....NEXT

Won't he be off to Leicester soon anyway? Isn't that where useful Falcons players graduate??  

Not anymore FES...those days are gone.

No - these days the Falcons take in Tiger rejects.....

Yeah the odd one....true....but Alex Tuilagi is fit and firing....
Hawkins isn't as good as what we have but good in a coaching role....and Andy Tuilagi was a makeweight for Alex.

Squad will be announced a week today.

I've got a funny feeling that I'm going to be called up this time!

I can't wait to see what Cotter's got up his sleeve. Surely the squad is going to be as close to his pick for the RWC as its possible to make, bar any injuries / subsequent qualifications, so its going to be very exciting to see who makes the cut.

I think we'll see a fairly settled squad, but I think we might see a few wild cards again. My fear is that Cotter will also see bringing Brown and Barclay back in as a retrograde step. If they do come back in it makes a mockery of picking Kieran Low and Ryan Wilson (even Chris Fusaro) for the last few squads.

Pulling together my squad and then my starting 15 really highlights how much we will miss Duncan Weir as a bench option. I hope we see Tonks given a chance, but its a huge ask to go from limited club to national rugby. But its either that or we see Laidlaw or Hogg (even Horne) covering 10 and someone like Jack Cuthbert in as cover. Heathcote is in a similar position to Tonks, but at least Tonks is in form?

Personally I would have Brown and Barclay in this squad. I would also bring in Nathan Hines. Jim Hamilton isn't far behind either and Sean Lamont would also make the cut. The world cup is the only thing that matters this season. Development for 2019 can wait and I want people to be afraid of us.

LH - Dickinson; Sub - Grant, Squad - Reid
Hooker - Ford; Sub - F Brown; Squad - McArthur
TH - Murray; Sub - Cross; Squad - Welsh
Locks - Gray x 2; Sub - Hines; Squad - Swinson / Hamilton
Backrow - Harley, Cowan, Denton; Sub - Beattie or Brown
SH - Laidlaw (c); Sub - Cusiter; Squad - Pygros
FH - Russell, Heathcote, Tonks
Centres - Scott, Dunbar; Sub - Taylor or Bennett
Back three - Maitland, Seymour , Hogg; Sub - Tonks; Squad - Visser

Mark Bennett played in the Glasgow 'A' vs Scotland U-20s training match today. Great news that he's getting back in action.

I like Duncan Taylor, he seems to play just about every game for Sarries at the moment which is no mean feet. He is big, strong and has good hands and seems to read the game well. He definitely seems to have improved with playing regularly. With Scott, Bennett, Dunbar and him I think we are pretty well off in the centre and have enough depth to take an injury or two as well.

Cussack won't play in this 6N unless we have a major prop meltdown. He was done at half time on Friday night and needs to get a whole lot fitter if he is ever going to make an international. He will get some game time now though with Welsh and Murray likely to be in the test squad. With Nel coming into the WC mix as well, there is everything to play for on the TH side.

Hogg is playing well for Newcastle no doubt, but does it really make any sense to bring a 32 year old back into the squad when we have younger arguably better players available. We are not short of options in the back row and at number 8 he has got to be behind Denton, who is my favourite to start the 6N, Beattie and Ashe, who may have started had he been fit. Add Strauss to the mix for the WC and as it has already been said, Hogg's ship has sailed, maybe unfairly, but sailed nevertheless.

The rest of the backrow is equally intriguing, particularly the Barclay/Brown situation, will he or won't he? I personally don't believe any of the conspiracy theories about VC being influenced by SJ, he is his own man and will make his own judgement. He mentioned the two of them whilst talking about the previous squad and they were both in his mind. It was the selection of Stroks in that squad that was the most odd to me, surely KB was a better option there. I can accept that Low was worth a look at, but did not really do much to indicate he was worth persevering. I don't think we will see him this time.

You can also throw Roddy Grant into the openside mix just to show that JB is not the only one being hard done by. He has played consistently well for years and never capped. He keeps trying though and who knows may eventually get his reward.

In most positions now there really is some genuine competition for places. It may no longer be true that t is harder to get out of the team than to get into it. Something that John Barclay may have believed at the time. I don't think he thinks that now though and is playing well. I think that slates are now wiped clean and VC will pick the squad that he thinks will serve him best and most likely to get results. It is an unsentimental business being a coach at this level. Don't expect any!

I don't think it's a backwards step to select Brown and Barclay if the AI's were sufficient for Cotter to confirm that neither Wilson, Low nor Strokosch are our best options at the moment. That may well be the case, although I think that Vern likes Big Al's style.

How strange to say that the utterly bizarre split tour may have been the making of Adam Ashe as an international player. Ludicrous to set a young man against the Springboks before he made his club debut but as has been pointed out above, now that it has happened (he has 3 caps now) and he has also achieved some club game time, does it really make sense to bring back a veteran like Ally Hogg when a younger player could be brought to even greater potential during a World Cup year?

Don't get me wrong. As you might expect from a 21 year old, Ashe looks decidedly underpowered compared to the likes of Strauss and in all honesty the likes of Denton too - however, I am intrigued to see how he'll develop.

If the 6N is about selecting the players who are currently playing the best, then you would go with Hogg. But I would be surprised if that's all the selectors are thinking about.

surely during a world cup year its not about picking players with potential for the future it is picking the form players who are playing consistently well.
All the time for experimenting has passed and you want the best and most in form players out on the field for you. For me the form 23 would be
1. Al Dickinson
2. R Ford
3. G Cross
4. R Gray
5. J Gray
6. R Harley
7. B Cowan
8. A Hogg
9. G Laidlaw
10. F Russell
11. T Visser
12. M Scott
13. A Dunbar
14. T Seymour
15. S Hogg?

16. F Brown 17. G Reid 18. E Murray 19. T Swinson 20. J Beattie 21. C Cusiter 22. G Tonks 23. S Lamont

Majestic83 wrote:surely during a world cup year its not about picking players with potential for the future it is picking the form players who are playing consistently well.
All the time for experimenting has passed and you want the best and most in form players out on the field for you. For me the form 23 would be
1. Al Dickinson
2. R Ford
3. G Cross
4. R Gray
5. J Gray
6. R Harley
7. B Cowan
8. A Hogg
9. G Laidlaw
10. F Russell
11. T Visser
12. M Scott
13. A Dunbar
14. T Seymour
15. S Hogg?

16. F Brown 17. G Reid 18. E Murray 19. T Swinson 20. J Beattie 21. C Cusiter 22. G Tonks 23. S Lamont

+1 million. The idea of "developing" players at the World Cup, or in the 6 Nations before the World Cup, is utterly absurd. What are we developing them for?? World Cup 2019!!

Pick the best players. On no planet, other than perhaps "Planet Scott Johnson", could a case be made for Adam Ashe to be picked ahead of Ali Hogg. Experience tends to be considered a positive thing in most walks of life, and Hogg has a truck load. He's more powerful, more skillful and in better form than Adam Ashe. Ashe goes backwards in a stiff breeze. He's promising, but now is not the time to develop the kids. It's grown up time.

Majestic83 wrote:surely during a world cup year its not about picking players with potential for the future it is picking the form players who are playing consistently well.
All the time for experimenting has passed and you want the best and most in form players out on the field for you. For me the form 23 would be
1. Al Dickinson
2. R Ford
3. G Cross
4. R Gray
5. J Gray
6. R Harley
7. B Cowan
8. A Hogg
9. G Laidlaw
10. F Russell
11. T Visser
12. M Scott
13. A Dunbar
14. T Seymour
15. S Hogg?

16. F Brown 17. G Reid 18. E Murray 19. T Swinson 20. J Beattie 21. C Cusiter 22. G Tonks 23. S Lamont

i don't think that team will be far away, except for no 8, which will be Beattie/Denton and Strauss joiining them at the WC.

Cross I would have down as our third choice TH at the moment behind Murray and Low and he could potenitally slip behind big Mike as well if he gains some fitness over the next few weeks. I am afraid that he has never really been an international class player, though he has certainly given it his all when called upon.

BigGee wrote:

Cross I would have down as our third choice TH at the moment behind Murray and Low and he could potenitally slip behind big Mike as well if he gains some fitness over the next few weeks. I am afraid that he has never really been an international class player, though he has certainly given it his all when called upon.

Why Low over Cross? He's not played for Scotland for a while, and hasn't been overly impressive when he has...

Cross has generally filled in for Murray and I think he's doing pretty well!

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:surely during a world cup year its not about picking players with potential for the future it is picking the form players who are playing consistently well.
All the time for experimenting has passed and you want the best and most in form players out on the field for you. For me the form 23 would be
1. Al Dickinson
2. R Ford
3. G Cross
4. R Gray
5. J Gray
6. R Harley
7. B Cowan
8. A Hogg
9. G Laidlaw
10. F Russell
11. T Visser
12. M Scott
13. A Dunbar
14. T Seymour
15. S Hogg?

16. F Brown 17. G Reid 18. E Murray 19. T Swinson 20. J Beattie 21. C Cusiter 22. G Tonks 23. S Lamont

+1 million. The idea of "developing" players at the World Cup, or in the 6 Nations before the World Cup, is utterly absurd. What are we developing them for?? World Cup 2019!!

Pick the best players. On no planet, other than perhaps "Planet Scott Johnson", could a case be made for Adam Ashe to be picked ahead of Ali Hogg. Experience tends to be considered a positive thing in most walks of life, and Hogg has a truck load. He's more powerful, more skillful and in better form than Adam Ashe. Ashe goes backwards in a stiff breeze. He's promising, but now is not the time to develop the kids. It's grown up time.

ashe was developing very nicely and showed what he can do in the european games. The injury I would imagine has scuppered his chances now though and if he does not play in the 6N, which looks unlikely, then he won't go to the WC. Shame that as he may have had a shout with more games and experience.

BigGee wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:surely during a world cup year its not about picking players with potential for the future it is picking the form players who are playing consistently well.
All the time for experimenting has passed and you want the best and most in form players out on the field for you. For me the form 23 would be
1. Al Dickinson
2. R Ford
3. G Cross
4. R Gray
5. J Gray
6. R Harley
7. B Cowan
8. A Hogg
9. G Laidlaw
10. F Russell
11. T Visser
12. M Scott
13. A Dunbar
14. T Seymour
15. S Hogg?

16. F Brown 17. G Reid 18. E Murray 19. T Swinson 20. J Beattie 21. C Cusiter 22. G Tonks 23. S Lamont

i don't think that team will be far away, except for no 8, which will be Beattie/Denton and Strauss joiining them at the WC.

How strange and wonderful that after all of these years of godawful sh!te in the midfield, the highest quality players in that side are potentially our centres.

I think that people are misunderstanding me. I am not advocating choosing Ashe - I am just saying that there are reasonsn why you might. If Beattie is not playing well (and nobody seems to know how he's been playing, apparently), then I would be happy with 6 Harley 7 Cowan 8 Kellybrows.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

BigGee wrote:

Cross I would have down as our third choice TH at the moment behind Murray and Low and he could potenitally slip behind big Mike as well if he gains some fitness over the next few weeks. I am afraid that he has never really been an international class player, though he has certainly given it his all when called upon.

Why Low over Cross? He's not played for Scotland for a while, and hasn't been overly impressive when he has...

Cross has generally filled in for Murray and I think he's doing pretty well!

Beacisue when I said Low I meant Welsh!

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:surely during a world cup year its not about picking players with potential for the future it is picking the form players who are playing consistently well.
All the time for experimenting has passed and you want the best and most in form players out on the field for you. For me the form 23 would be
1. Al Dickinson
2. R Ford
3. G Cross
4. R Gray
5. J Gray
6. R Harley
7. B Cowan
8. A Hogg
9. G Laidlaw
10. F Russell
11. T Visser
12. M Scott
13. A Dunbar
14. T Seymour
15. S Hogg?

16. F Brown 17. G Reid 18. E Murray 19. T Swinson 20. J Beattie 21. C Cusiter 22. G Tonks 23. S Lamont

+1 million. The idea of "developing" players at the World Cup, or in the 6 Nations before the World Cup, is utterly absurd. What are we developing them for?? World Cup 2019!!

Pick the best players. On no planet, other than perhaps "Planet Scott Johnson", could a case be made for Adam Ashe to be picked ahead of Ali Hogg. Experience tends to be considered a positive thing in most walks of life, and Hogg has a truck load. He's more powerful, more skillful and in better form than Adam Ashe. Ashe goes backwards in a stiff breeze. He's promising, but now is not the time to develop the kids. It's grown up time.

Absolute Love sacks. Ashe was superb against Argentina and NZ. He made countless tight carries, and tackled his arse off. If he hadn't been injured, he'd have been in the match-day squad for Glasgow, a top-level Pro12 team, over the autumn and winter. Hogg is a talented player, obviously, but he plays for a team that has only been saved from AP relegation over the last two seasons by Worcester and the excrescence that is London Welsh. He's also 32, and been nowhere near the Scotland set up for getting on half a decade.

Ashe isn't a development pick. He's already proved he's of international standard.

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

BigGee wrote:

Cross I would have down as our third choice TH at the moment behind Murray and Low and he could potenitally slip behind big Mike as well if he gains some fitness over the next few weeks. I am afraid that he has never really been an international class player, though he has certainly given it his all when called upon.

Why Low over Cross? He's not played for Scotland for a while, and hasn't been overly impressive when he has...

Cross has generally filled in for Murray and I think he's doing pretty well!

Beacisue when I said Low I meant Welsh!

Ok so what makes you think Welsh would do a better job than cross, given his recent reverse gear scrummaging he showed against Edinburgh?

RDW_Scotland wrote:

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

BigGee wrote:

Cross I would have down as our third choice TH at the moment behind Murray and Low and he could potenitally slip behind big Mike as well if he gains some fitness over the next few weeks. I am afraid that he has never really been an international class player, though he has certainly given it his all when called upon.

Why Low over Cross? He's not played for Scotland for a while, and hasn't been overly impressive when he has...

Cross has generally filled in for Murray and I think he's doing pretty well!

Beacisue when I said Low I meant Welsh!

Ok so what makes you think Welsh would do a better job than cross, given his recent reverse gear scrummaging he showed against Edinburgh?

How often has Jazzy Geoff actually been playing for Irish? Then you face the problem of choosing a player who is associated with a less successful club side than Welsh is. It's actually very difficult to make a meaningful comparison between the two.

Cross has started for Irish a number of games in a row now - he's scored more tries the past few months than Maitland!

Does anyone know if Murray is injured? I know his scrummaging hasn't been of his usual standard in recent games, wondering if there's any Cotter involvement in Cusack taking his place in the Glasgow squad for the remaining European games?

MacKnocked-on wrote:Does anyone know if Murray is injured? I know his scrummaging hasn't been of his usual standard in recent games, wondering if there's any Cotter involvement in Cusack taking his place in the Glasgow squad for the remaining European games?

Both games on a Sunday

RDW_Scotland wrote:Cross has started for Irish a number of games in a row now - he's scored more tries the past few months than Maitland!

 but also by now,

RDW_Scotland wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:Does anyone know if Murray is injured? I know his scrummaging hasn't been of his usual standard in recent games, wondering if there's any Cotter involvement in Cusack taking his place in the Glasgow squad for the remaining European games?

Both games on a Sunday

Ah yes, of course, forgot about him not playing on Sundays

I think Maitland's inability to score tries may hamper Tonks' chances of making it into the match day sqaud.

If Maitland doesnt get a starting spot, I can see him on the bench to cover wing and fullback. As tonks would cover fullback, this may mean he misses out!

funny way things work eh!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

BigGee wrote:

Cross I would have down as our third choice TH at the moment behind Murray and Low and he could potenitally slip behind big Mike as well if he gains some fitness over the next few weeks. I am afraid that he has never really been an international class player, though he has certainly given it his all when called upon.

Why Low over Cross? He's not played for Scotland for a while, and hasn't been overly impressive when he has...

Cross has generally filled in for Murray and I think he's doing pretty well!

Beacisue when I said Low I meant Welsh!

Ok so what makes you think Welsh would do a better job than cross, given his recent reverse gear scrummaging he showed against Edinburgh?

Admittadly Welsh did not have his best game against Edinburgh, but neither did most of the Glasgow pack to be honest. He is coming back from injury as well and has played pretty well in most of the other games I have seen him in. On his day he is a very powerful scrummager. Have you seen the LI scrum, they get murdered every week. Cross has had a lot of caps without ever really establishing himself, he is just not powerful enough to be an international TH. I think Nel will jump him in the queue when he qualifies as well. One thing you can say though is that there is actually plenty of competition in that position now

Captain_Sensible wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:surely during a world cup year its not about picking players with potential for the future it is picking the form players who are playing consistently well.
All the time for experimenting has passed and you want the best and most in form players out on the field for you. For me the form 23 would be
1. Al Dickinson
2. R Ford
3. G Cross
4. R Gray
5. J Gray
6. R Harley
7. B Cowan
8. A Hogg
9. G Laidlaw
10. F Russell
11. T Visser
12. M Scott
13. A Dunbar
14. T Seymour
15. S Hogg?

16. F Brown 17. G Reid 18. E Murray 19. T Swinson 20. J Beattie 21. C Cusiter 22. G Tonks 23. S Lamont

+1 million. The idea of "developing" players at the World Cup, or in the 6 Nations before the World Cup, is utterly absurd. What are we developing them for?? World Cup 2019!!

Pick the best players. On no planet, other than perhaps "Planet Scott Johnson", could a case be made for Adam Ashe to be picked ahead of Ali Hogg. Experience tends to be considered a positive thing in most walks of life, and Hogg has a truck load. He's more powerful, more skillful and in better form than Adam Ashe. Ashe goes backwards in a stiff breeze. He's promising, but now is not the time to develop the kids. It's grown up time.

Absolute Love sacks. Ashe was superb against Argentina and NZ. He made countless tight carries, and tackled his arse off. If he hadn't been injured, he'd have been in the match-day squad for Glasgow, a top-level Pro12 team, over the autumn and winter. Hogg is a talented player, obviously, but he plays for a team that has only been saved from AP relegation over the last two seasons by Worcester and the excrescence that is London Welsh. He's also 32, and been nowhere near the Scotland set up for getting on half a decade.

Ashe isn't a development pick. He's already proved he's of international standard.

I fully agree with this statement. Beattie hasn't been getting picked at Castres so I can't see him being a front runner.

To be honest Denton is the only sensible pick as an alternative to Ashe at the moment. Hogg clearly has been playing well however the amount of time in the international wilderness will damage his chances. See England re Nick Easter.

I never really rated Hogg when he was the right side of 30. No. 8s these days are phenomenal specimens. Just look at his competition in the 6N, Parisse, Armitage (possibly), Heaslip, Faletau and Picomoles. He's distincly meh in comparrison with that lot.

SRU wrote:Scotland and Bristol Rugby back-row Ross Rennie today announced that he is to retire from the professional game.

Not a shock but what a shame. A tremendous player we didn't get to see nearly enough off.

GLove39 wrote:

SRU wrote:Scotland and Bristol Rugby back-row Ross Rennie today announced that he is to retire from the professional game.

Not a shock but what a shame. A tremendous player we didn't get to see nearly enough off.  

Gutting. My favourite player since Simon Taylor - unfortunately gone the same way with injuries!

Indeed.
Thinking about other players we lost prematurely over the years. Taylor, Ansbro, Thom Evans, Rory Lamont etc
So much potential.

Captain_Sensible wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:surely during a world cup year its not about picking players with potential for the future it is picking the form players who are playing consistently well.
All the time for experimenting has passed and you want the best and most in form players out on the field for you. For me the form 23 would be
1. Al Dickinson
2. R Ford
3. G Cross
4. R Gray
5. J Gray
6. R Harley
7. B Cowan
8. A Hogg
9. G Laidlaw
10. F Russell
11. T Visser
12. M Scott
13. A Dunbar
14. T Seymour
15. S Hogg?

16. F Brown 17. G Reid 18. E Murray 19. T Swinson 20. J Beattie 21. C Cusiter 22. G Tonks 23. S Lamont

+1 million. The idea of "developing" players at the World Cup, or in the 6 Nations before the World Cup, is utterly absurd. What are we developing them for?? World Cup 2019!!

Pick the best players. On no planet, other than perhaps "Planet Scott Johnson", could a case be made for Adam Ashe to be picked ahead of Ali Hogg. Experience tends to be considered a positive thing in most walks of life, and Hogg has a truck load. He's more powerful, more skillful and in better form than Adam Ashe. Ashe goes backwards in a stiff breeze. He's promising, but now is not the time to develop the kids. It's grown up time.

Absolute Love sacks. Ashe was superb against Argentina and NZ. He made countless tight carries, and tackled his arse off. If he hadn't been injured, he'd have been in the match-day squad for Glasgow, a top-level Pro12 team, over the autumn and winter. Hogg is a talented player, obviously, but he plays for a team that has only been saved from AP relegation over the last two seasons by Worcester and the excrescence that is London Welsh. He's also 32, and been nowhere near the Scotland set up for getting on half a decade.

Ashe isn't a development pick. He's already proved he's of international standard.

Nothing wrong with Ashe's workrate, he just isn't very effective in the work he does. This is his first season of pro rugby. To suggest he's the finished product as an international player is absurd. He was thrown around like a rag doll in the summer against the Boks, and despite big workrate in the tackle and the rucks, he is not an international quality ball carrier (yet). He invariably gets knocked backwards or stopped on the gainline. The valid point to make here is that he doesn't need to be a good ball carrier if you have other players in that role, and with both Grays in the second row you can argue that others can pick up the slack in that regard, but in heavy traffic he's not your man (again, yet).

A couple of other points that stand out from your post:

1. "If he hadn't been injured, he'd have been in the match-day squad for Glasgow, a top-level Pro12 team, over the autumn and winter."

A rather odd point to make in his favour don't you think?? He's still to complete half a season of pro rugby in his life, and you think it helps his case to point out that he's missed the last couple of months because of injury, and throw in an assumption along with it that he would have played had he been fit!!

2. "Hogg is a talented player, obviously, but he plays for a team that has only been saved from AP relegation over the last two seasons by Worcester and the excrescence that is London Welsh."

Does it really matter who Hogg plays for, or shall we not just focus on how well he's playing?? You seem to suggest that Ashe being injured and therefore not playing for Glasgow, is better than Hogg being fully fit and being a standout player for Newcastle!!

3. "He's also 32"

I'm not going to bother listing out the vast number of players who have excelled at the highest level of international rugby at this age and older, but let's just take it as read that it's a far higher number than those of 21 years of age and who have yet to start 10 professional rugby matches (ever).

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Majestic83 wrote:surely during a world cup year its not about picking players with potential for the future it is picking the form players who are playing consistently well.
All the time for experimenting has passed and you want the best and most in form players out on the field for you. For me the form 23 would be
1. Al Dickinson
2. R Ford
3. G Cross
4. R Gray
5. J Gray
6. R Harley
7. B Cowan
8. A Hogg
9. G Laidlaw
10. F Russell
11. T Visser
12. M Scott
13. A Dunbar
14. T Seymour
15. S Hogg?

16. F Brown 17. G Reid 18. E Murray 19. T Swinson 20. J Beattie 21. C Cusiter 22. G Tonks 23. S Lamont

+1 million. The idea of "developing" players at the World Cup, or in the 6 Nations before the World Cup, is utterly absurd. What are we developing them for?? World Cup 2019!!

Pick the best players. On no planet, other than perhaps "Planet Scott Johnson", could a case be made for Adam Ashe to be picked ahead of Ali Hogg. Experience tends to be considered a positive thing in most walks of life, and Hogg has a truck load. He's more powerful, more skillful and in better form than Adam Ashe. Ashe goes backwards in a stiff breeze. He's promising, but now is not the time to develop the kids. It's grown up time.

Absolute Love sacks. Ashe was superb against Argentina and NZ. He made countless tight carries, and tackled his arse off. If he hadn't been injured, he'd have been in the match-day squad for Glasgow, a top-level Pro12 team, over the autumn and winter. Hogg is a talented player, obviously, but he plays for a team that has only been saved from AP relegation over the last two seasons by Worcester and the excrescence that is London Welsh. He's also 32, and been nowhere near the Scotland set up for getting on half a decade.

Ashe isn't a development pick. He's already proved he's of international standard.

I fully agree with this statement. Beattie hasn't been getting picked at Castres so I can't see him being a front runner.

To be honest Denton is the only sensible pick as an alternative to Ashe at the moment. Hogg clearly has been playing well however the amount of time in the international wilderness will damage his chances. See England re Nick Easter.

I never really rated Hogg when he was the right side of 30. No. 8s these days are phenomenal specimens. Just look at his competition in the 6N, Parisse, Armitage (possibly), Heaslip, Faletau and Picomoles. He's distincly meh in comparrison with that lot.

I'd have to disagree, I don't think Ashe is up to international standard just yet. He doesn't have the power an international no8 needs. He did carry the ball a lot against Argentina and the All Blacks but he got knocked back fairly easily and driven at least a metre in most of the contacts. He does have good ball skills and is definitely one for the future but not currently I would say.
Beattie is playing well for Castres at the moment. They have a rotation policy which is why he isn't getting picked week in week out but the games he has played he has been praised in the French media.

In regards to Hogg he is bigger than Armiatge and Faletau and is off similar size to Heaslip. He is at the top of the stats from Back rowers in the Aviva for most of the areas and is currently 3rd for tackles made overall in the premiership and in the top 5 for carries and metres gained aswell so think he definitely offers Scotland something. On form he is playing better than Denton at the moment against tougher opposition.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

GLove39 wrote:

SRU wrote:Scotland and Bristol Rugby back-row Ross Rennie today announced that he is to retire from the professional game.

Not a shock but what a shame. A tremendous player we didn't get to see nearly enough off.  

Gutting.  My favourite player since Simon Taylor - unfortunately gone the same way with injuries!

Shame for him, but probably for the best. With any luck he got out before the injuries he's sustained did any real lasting damage