Aviva Premiership - Round 9

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Just 3 more rounds and every club will have played each other. The congestion in the middle of the table continues apace - a single win saw Leicester move from 9th to 5th, while at the top of the table we could well be seeing a clear gap between the Top 3 and the rest after this round.


Saturday 29th November 2014

Bath v Harlequins 19:45 BT Sport
Bath will be desperate to keep the pressure on the top two, and at home will not wish to lose. Having lost at the Stoop to Sale Quins will be desperate to get back to winning ways before a top 4 spot start to looks like a pipe-dream. Both sides are heavily affected by England call-ups - though have been helped by the early release of players. While Bath will have more men in the England 23, Quins will miss their absentees more and at times looked rudderless against a fired up Sale team. Quins will need the 8-10 axis to really fire and show leadership but how mush do the older statesmen, Easter and Evans, have in the tank?


Saturday 29th November 2014

Leicester v Wasps 15:00
This meeting of 5th v 6th will have both sides looking for the win that could move them closer to the Top 4 spot. However both teams were poor on the road last week where we saw Leicester limp past a dreadful London Welsh side while Wasps were well beaten in Devon. Both sides will see some international players returning this week and Leicester in particular will be bolstered by the returns of Ayerza up front and Goneva at the back. Leicester need to control the set piece, kick well and catch passes. Fail this and Wasps have the firepower to increase the Welford Rd frustration.

Exeter v Saracens 16:30
Huge clash for both sides. Saracens will not enjoy sitting 4th in the table and seeing Exeter two places ahead. This is a game they will feel they have to win - but they will need to start much better than they did against Northampton. In their last two fixtures Sarries have tried to play a conservative, attritional game - and struggled because they could not gain set-piece dominance. Againts Exeter who can play with real flair and for each other they simply have to dominate the home team pack otherwise they will return to Europe on the back of 3 weeks with no victory. Exeter have just lost once at home, in round 2, and will fully expect to send another bunch of "fancy dans" packing.


Sunday 30th November 2014

London Irish v Gloucester 13:00 BT Sport
Both sides lost last week, not unexpectedly, but London Irish will be more disappointed by the manner of the defeat. Gloucester should be strengthened by the return of Greg Laidlaw - but still have major problems in their backline with injuries and international call-ups. this is a prime time for London Irish to secure the win that would all but relegate London Welsh, but they need to start playing from the first minute - not leave everything to the last quarter when they score points that merely reduce the scoreboard pain.

London Welsh v Northampton 14:30
What's the point?

Newcastle v Sale 15:15 BT Sport
Hard one to call. After 10 months of defeats in all competitions, Falcons have picked up the winning bug. Sale are a solid team, good scavengers and a strong driving maul. Cipriani is playing well enough to guide the team around and they will feel they have what it takes to secure the win and return to the top half of the table. Sale have been vulnerable at scrum time however, missing Brookes and with issues at LH, falcons are probably not the side to take advantage here. Falcons cannot afford the plethora of missed goal kicks we have seen recently if they are to secure their 4th premiership win of the season.

At least you have some discernible tactics to complain about. I have zero idea what ours are, and from the looks of it, neither do the fecking players!

Ha that's true Ozzy. Although our tactics seem to be the opposite of how to actually win half the time.

Here's what baffles me about our attack at the mo:

On Friday we were under constant pressure for about the first 8 minutes, after we concede we then have our first chance ball in hand 40m's from Bath's line. I know it was 40m's at I could see the 10m line, after one run from a forward we go wide, two passes later (from 9 and 10) and we were behind our own 10m line trying to attack!

How are you ever going to score points if you're playing 20m's behind the gainline? And this wasn't under pressure, Bath were hanging back and drifting so it was easy for them to contain.

This isn't the first time we've done this either, more and more we seem to try to play the ball far behind the gainline to no discernable success. It's either passed straight to a wing who's marked by 2 or more opposition, or there's a nifty backs move that's easily read and contained.

Where's the offloading game? Where's the runners in the pack earning that right to go wide? Where are the dangerous runs from Care or Evans? It's all just a bit flaccid at the moment.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Quins need some momentum from Europe, and need our Engalnd players back playing great rugby. Most of all, we need a plan b and to do the basics as well as we can

To be honest all of that is a moo point if our pack bend over like they did against Bath. I know we missed Marker but Jesus I have never seen such a comprehensive man shaming at the set piece.

Is it coaches? Players just bit good enough? Or something else?

Kind of don't think that's the problem. It was vs Bath (with Lambert ill and no Marler but still unacceptable) but the pack was great against Sale and the better part of the team in a few other matches. In the very start of the season they were the problem but recently it's been our backs and most of all our tactics

I really do think Sinckler will be your find of the season. There was one scrum where the entire Quins pack folded back as Sinckler stayed solid. Still raw but hopefully he'll continue to progress.

Yea he is a real talent. He's been thrown in at the deep end and is playing a lot more rugby then he probably expected but has stood up well.

There was one tackle as well against Bath where he was like a missile, nothing illegal or dangerous but just flattened the runner.

And he got a sweeeeet turn over. He's progressing like a young James Johnston but with more to his game as a whole.

So which clubs fans are happy as we head into another European hiatus?

Saints - will have been unhappy about the manner of defeat to Exeter, but surely cannot quibble about topping the table.
Bath - surely happy with league position, but a tad disappointed with Euro campaign?
Exeter - must be happy surely
Saracens - unhappy
Leicester - unhappy
Sale - unable to get a run of wins together, but surely content with 6th?
Wasps - unhappy with move, waht about performances?
Gloucester - hoping for more, or expecting a bedding in period?
Quins - apoplectic
Falcons - happy with position, but disappointed with weekend?
LI - In despair
LW 0 run for the hills

Falcons - Pretty happy with the quality of rugby (dire need for FH & LH) and league position. Home defeats to Sale and Irish major disappointments so far.

LondonTiger wrote:So which clubs fans are happy as we head into another European hiatus?

Saints - will have been unhappy about the manner of defeat to Exeter, but surely cannot quibble about topping the table.
Bath - surely happy with league position, but a tad disappointed with Euro campaign?
Exeter - must be happy surely
Saracens - unhappy
Leicester - unhappy
Sale - unable to get a run of wins together, but surely content with 6th?
Wasps - unhappy with move, waht about performances?
Gloucester - hoping for more, or expecting a bedding in period?
Quins - apoplectic
Falcons - happy with position, but disappointed with weekend?
LI - In despair
LW 0 run for the hills

As a Saints fan, certainly happy with where we stand at the moment. The loss to Exe was a loss to a very good team, but I wasn't happy about losing to Wasps the way we did. We were very flat in that game and, of course, Wasps were very good. Still felt we should have pulled that out. I suppose this is what makes the Premiership so good. Almost every team can knock off any other team (London Welsh excluded).

As a Quins fan i'm pretty stunned at just how far we've fallen.

Yes we could theoretically make the top four still, and top six is a definate target. We've even managed a few decent games, but all in all...

We're. Just. So. Poopie.

Compared to how we used to play it's like an amateur team has taken our place. Think the experiment of using a majority from our academy and not spending on a few experienced players to help those youngsters has been shown as a weakness when other teams are buying quality.

Likewise our divergence from the tactics that won us the league two years ago are a massive backwards step. We now play far too wide, and do it too slowly, without the pack to tie in the defense or the centre's to make some go forward.

Lastly it's sobering that we're right up to the cap limit. I can only assume that means we a. paying for a lot of guys who never play or b. over paying a lot of average squad players.

Saracens have struggled in recent weeks but now they have a period of the easier fixtures - need to make the most of it.

Realistically they need 25 points from their next five games - home and away to Sale (tough but needed), home to LW, away to Newcastle and LI at home.

Do that and they'll be a more secure position in both the AP and Europe.

I just hope they play Charlie vs Sale but I doubt they will. Sale away is a must win game. Not going to be easy but realistically Saracens should be able to do it.

From Bath point of view I am pretty happy. Second in the league, we have played some good rugby at times and a number of players have been called up by England as a result.

Europe as been poor, but to be honest we were never likely to go very far in that anyway. Given that last year we finished 5th, the main aim should be a top 4 finish and fingers crossed we are on course to achieve that.

As a London Irish fan, I am used to us not winning, and can live with that, it's never been about the trophies. What is sending me, and plenty of others into despair is they manner of the current defeats. When we've lost in the past we've at least been giving it a lash and trying to entertain, but on Sunday there was a lack of any discernible attacking game plan, and more worrying an absence of passion and desire from some players. I worry that Smithy, who looks like a man with a noose around his neck, haas lost the dressing room.

As supporters we need to see a reaction this weekend against the Blues, as we are struggling at the moment to identify with what we are supporting.

LT, I think from a Glaws perspective my view is both of what you state, hoped for more, but I have very little expectations for this season bar an improvement on last season. After the initial 6 Jeff games I was happy with the progress we'd made. Whilst being thumped by Saints we vastly improved and won 3 lost 3 and really should have beaten Exeter. Unfortunately the return of the Jeff hasn't yielded a great return. We were very poor against Quins and Falcons and we cannot use call ups and injuries as an excuse. I don't think I'm being insulting to either Quins or Falcons fans who would no doubt be pleased with the 4 points, but not overjoyed by their respective performances, so for us to lose both games was very disappointing. Conversely I'm pleased to have won against Irish, but it was a dire game and we were only marginally less dire than Irish. Worryingly, our next 4 games are against Bath (H), Wasps (H), Exeter (A) and Sarries (H). They could easily be 4 losses on the bounce, but hopefully the home advantage helps with some. Nevertheless, despite my dour tone, I am pleased with how we're developing and I have no doubt from next season we will start to be a force again. In the meantime, I'll take 1 win 3 losses in our next 4 games...

Hoping for a win against your midlands rivals Wasps I assume HKC?

Bathman_in_London wrote:Hoping for a win against your midlands rivals Wasps I assume HKC?

I would love to think we could beat our nemesis from the South West, but getting a win at Sandy Park is a tough ask. My statement was about beating Swindon, they're a team of upstarts who have a penchant for Barbours and Babycham and need to be sent packing back to their Spa resort

LondonTiger wrote:
Leicester - unhappy

Not really unhappy here tbh LT. Would absolutely have taken this position after the Bath and Gloucester games. The squad is better than last year's one which was almost enough to make the final and with more players coming back I'm getting increasingly confident that they'll make the playoffs (though it'll probably be away). Last 2 weeks have been pretty dire but I believe they were just going through the motions, holding back so they can go balls deep this weekend.

Europe is probably over this year, but I think all the English teams are a bit behind the best French and Pro12 teams currently. I have gone for Leicester to just nick a win on Sunday though, and I've not even started drinking.

This is all far too positive. Is it too late to change SuperBru predictions?

We have played pretty Poopie all season. Falcons was ok(ish), Exeter gifted us the win, Quins were dreadful. Every other AP game we have been pretty poor - win or lose. Second half against Sale in LV good, first half against Ulster decent.

We have no obvious attacking strategy - and I am really scared for the next 3 matches. Toulon twice followed by a trip to Franklin's Gardens could be the thing of nightmares.

LondonTiger wrote:We have played pretty Poopie all season. Falcons was ok(ish), Exeter gifted us the win, Quins were dreadful. Every other AP game we have been pretty poor - win or lose. Second half against Sale in LV good, first half against Ulster decent.

We have no obvious attacking strategy - and I am really scared for the next 3 matches. Toulon twice followed by a trip to Franklin's Gardens could be the thing of nightmares.

Mate,
You can do as you wish to Toulon with my blessing.  But please leave your good players at home when you travel to the Gardens.  
Merci.

p.s. I don't care how bad Leicester have played, they are always a huge threat.  A winning mentality is sometimes the difference between winning ugly and losing whilst looking good.

We do usually play our best against your boys Doc

LondonTiger wrote:We do usually play our best against your boys Doc

I've noticed that unfortunate tendency.

LondonTiger wrote:  Second half against Sale in LV good, first half against Ulster decent.

Whilst I agree with the rest we blew Ulster away in that first half and you have to be pretty good to do that. I thought the Sale game was the high point of the season. So many young guys played out of their skin to keep Sale out in the first half and then put them to the sword in the second.

I had to factor in just how much Ulster contributed to their own downfall, Sam.

Hmm that is true. Rory Best did have a mare at the line out from memory.