ERCC Round 3, Ulster vs Scarlets

by **Notch** Sat 06 Dec 2014, 10:46 am

First topic message reminder :

Date: Saturday, 7 December
Venue: Ravenhill, Belfast
Kick-off: 19:45 GMT
Referee: Luke Pearce (England)

Ulster

15 Louis Ludik
14 Tommy Bowe
13 Darren Cave
12 Stuart Olding
11 Craig Gilroy
10 Ian Humphreys
9 Ruan Pienaar

1 Callum Black
2 Rory Best (capt)
3 Wiehahn Herbst
4 Dan Tuohy
5 Franco van der Merwe
6 Robbie Diack
7 Roger Wilson
8 Nick Williams

16 Rob Herring, 17 Andy Warwick, 18 Declan Fitzpatrick, 19 Alan O’Connor, 20 Clive Ross, 21 Paul Marshall, 22 Stuart McCloskey, 23 Michael Allen

Scarlets

15 Liam Williams
14 Harry Robinson
13 Regan King
12 Scott Williams (capt)
11 Michael Tagicakibau
10 Rhys Priestland
9 Aled Davies

1 Rob Evans
2 Emyr Phillips
3 Samson Lee
4 Jake Ball
5 Johan Snyman
6 Aaron Shingler
7 James Davies
8 Rory Pitman

16 Kirby Myhill, 17 Phil John, 18 Rhodri Jones, 19 George Earle, 20 Lewis Rawlins, 21 Rhodri Williams, 22 Steven Shingler, 23 Gareth Owen

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 08 Dec 2014, 5:30 pm

MrsP wrote:Well, he's your player and if you don't think he has a problem with discipline then on your own head be it.

So long as he doesn't injure someone.

I think he is a hot-headed cheap shot merchant who is also a very skilled rugby player. If he spends 10 mins off the pitch every time you play against us I will have no complaints, so long as he doesn't injure anyone.

PS. What sanction did Halfpenny receive?

Leigh had nosanction, he knocked himself out (if I remember right), and the tackle stood as good.

Liam is odd, his 'rep' for being filthy and dirty seems to have started with the Trimble incident, and like I said, he seems to struggle with Ulster for some reason. Personally I wouldn't field him in the Kingspan as, with added crowd pressure, his 'rep' is an issue. I would keep him away until he starts getting respected for his pros in attack/defense, as I do think everyone jumps to the conclusion he is a thug and therefore always look for the worst.

by Nachos Jones Mon 08 Dec 2014, 6:53 pm

I personally have never really thought of Liam Williams as a dirty player, he has had a few cheap shots but the majority of players have done that in their careers. He is a player that gets a lot of focus on him when he does, why I have no idea. He needs to keep his nose extra clean for about a season though as he surely must know that ref's now have one eye on him during a match. Do that and he will not be focused on so much.

What he is though, is a very very good player and an exciting one to watch. At 15 and on the wing, he looks the business. I love the attacking style he brings to the game and he has the potential to be something very special for Wales. If 1/2p wasn't such an amazing kicker, I would start him at 15 for Wales. He was in my team for the AI's at 15.

by **Notch** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 6:59 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Are his stats any better or worse than many other players, I bet if someone was to do a similar stat across the board then I wouldn't have thought he is that worse than others, some yes but not others.

no worse than Delon Armitage

Now there's another bum hole.

by Kingshu Mon 08 Dec 2014, 7:01 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Artful_Dodger wrote:That was Liam Williams third yellow card against Ulster this season (he got red against us in the Rabo). It seems to be every other game hes getting binned for the Scarlets, not to mention his yellows and reds for Wales.

Any team that keeps picking this guy deserves everything they get, he is a thoroughly nasty little player.

What Red Cards for Wales?

Also this season, he has had 3 yellows for the Scarlets, and all have been against Ulster. Last season two of his yellow cards (and a red) were against the Blues, one for hitting the man in the air (justified totally) and the other for smacking Robin Copeland after Copeland had just stamped on his head! Sorry but to be honest, there comes a time where a player deserves a slap, and stamping on your head is more than justified.

Kingshu wrote:
Looking at his stats this year (not counting Friendlies)
Played 8 2 yellows and a red.
last year Played 17 1 yellow and 1 red
total played 74 5 yellows 2 reds

It does seam to be be a very high card count.

not sure anything else really needs to be said to that (oops misread that, as It DOESN'T seam to be that high a card count!) Given that of those 5 yellows over half have been against Ulster, and also two of those cards have been when BOTH players have been carded. Also both red cards were for double yellows (tackle in air/punching after being stamped on & can't remember/knocking a player over running to the ruck-10 out of ten for the dive)

Anyway to the game at hand. The Scarlets really let themselves down, we seemed to put in such a good performance defensively, turning over so much ball, but then we made some really howlers. Scott Williams trying to rip the ball from Ruan, instead of just smashing him, leading to one try. A few players being caught between minds when the ball was spun out wide etc. Ulster definitely deserved the win.

In fairness to compare like for like

Compared to other back 3 players (just Pro 12games)

Liam Williams played 49 3 yellow 1 red
Harry Robinson played 14 zero cards
Michael Tagicakibau played 12 zero cards

just to compare to fullbacks
Gareth Owen played 67 4 yellow 1 red

Payne played 39 1 yellow (Ludik not played enough at fullback to make it fair)
Gilroy Played 69 zero cards
Bowe played 139 zero cards

and to keep it fair
Trimble played 128 4 yellow

Maybe Williams does get a hard time and its Gareth Owen that should be pointed out, Trimble does have one more yellow card but he has played more than two and a half times more games.

So what are the conclusions from the stats?

by **rodders** Mon 08 Dec 2014, 8:41 pm

Kingshu wrote:
So what are the conclusions from the stats?

You're less likely to get carded if your hair is cut above your ears?

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 08 Dec 2014, 8:46 pm

rodders wrote:
Kingshu wrote:
So what are the conclusions from the stats?

You're less likely to get carded if your hair is cut above your ears?

Or with regards the Gareth Owen stat, people only notice players who are regular starters when it comes to poor discipline.

by MrsP Mon 08 Dec 2014, 9:17 pm

There is also the possibility that the card count does not tell the full story. My impression of LW is that he puts in a lot of head high and late tackles and extra wee sneaky digs which don't necessarily earn him cards. Just lots of niggle.

by Nachos Jones Mon 08 Dec 2014, 9:36 pm

MrsP, there are so many rugby players who put in the niggle and sneaky digs (look at the SA team Wink

) there are just a few players who get highlighted more than others.

Farrell from England is exactly the same, he comes across as petulant because he is easily wound up and reacts as if he has no self control but can then kick high pressure penalties so has extreme self control.

One of the greatest sneaky, underhanded and slightly dirty players was Lewis Moody but he was so good at it that he rarely got pinged.

by MrsP Mon 08 Dec 2014, 9:59 pm

Totally accept that LW is not alone on the "niggle" list but I maintain that he is more niggly than some of the others mentioned who have had the same number of cards.

Not my problem though.

by Nachos Jones Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:06 pm

Fair enough MrsP, I just think that he gets a bit of a raw deal and singled out more than others myself. Just one of those players that attracts negativity more than others for doing exactly the same things.

by MrsP Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:14 pm

We should devise a Niggleometer and study this scientifically to get a definitve answer!

by Nachos Jones Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:16 pm

Now that would be interesting.

by The Great Aukster Mon 08 Dec 2014, 10:59 pm

Nachos Jones wrote:MrsP, there are so many rugby players who put in the niggle and sneaky digs (look at the SA team ) there are just a few players who get highlighted more than others.

Farrell from England is exactly the same, he comes across as petulant because he is easily wound up and reacts as if he has no self control but can then kick high pressure penalties so has extreme self control.

One of the greatest sneaky, underhanded and slightly dirty players was Lewis Moody but he was so good at it that he rarely got pinged.

The difference between Williams and Farrell is that LW is revered for his "hardness", his edge or what ever you want to call it. That's his style of play whereas Farrell doesn't have that edge unless he is wound up to the point of losing his cool. Williams knows exactly what he is doing when he is winding up opposition players, whereas Farrell is exactly the opposite being someone who gets wound up. Williams isn't unlucky to have got that reputation because it is his cultivated trademark, but naturally there will be some times when he comes across a ref who won't let him away with it.

by Don Alfonso Mon 08 Dec 2014, 11:45 pm

MrsP wrote:There is also the possibility that the card count does not tell the full story. My impression of LW is that he puts in a lot of head high and late tackles and extra wee sneaky digs which don't necessarily earn him cards. Just lots of niggle.

Yeah - that's how it seems to me. His second yellow against us in Wales was for a deliberate knock on - nothing dirty in that.

However,when I think of Williams I think of that dropped shoulder into Paddy Jackson after he scored a try against Wales in the 6N. Unnecessary and petulant.

It's all about perception, though. Ryan Jones or AWJ could have twice as many cards and I'd still think of them as absolute gents.

by 2ndtimeround Tue 09 Dec 2014, 3:25 am

Whichever way you look at it I'd like to know how one player can spend so much time been binned against just one particular team. Without the Ulster games his disciplinary record is not really any worse than anyone else's. However against Ulster the most influential player in the team for the Scarlet's gets binned constantly. Really unusual stat that one. If I ever find the time then maybe I'll do a little more research into how often other teams suffer strange sin bin stats against Ulster in comparison to against other teams.

by bedfordwelsh Tue 09 Dec 2014, 6:15 am

As someone mentioned further up thread maybe Ulster just know how to get at him more than other teams and use it to their advantage.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 09 Dec 2014, 6:47 am

Don Alfonso wrote:
MrsP wrote:There is also the possibility that the card count does not tell the full story. My impression of LW is that he puts in a lot of head high and late tackles and extra wee sneaky digs which don't necessarily earn him cards. Just lots of niggle.

Yeah - that's how it seems to me. His second yellow against us in Wales was for a deliberate knock on - nothing dirty in that.

However,when I think of Williams I think of that dropped shoulder into Paddy Jackson after he scored a try against Wales in the 6N. Unnecessary and petulant.

It's all about perception, though. Ryan Jones or AWJ could have twice as many cards and I'd still think of them as absolute gents.

Also AWJ does the same niggly stuff on the pitch, and I've seen him drop on a player after the ball has been grounded too (hell I've seen plenty do it), and yet he is a gent????

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 09 Dec 2014, 6:51 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:As someone mentioned further up thread maybe Ulster just know how to get at him more than other teams and use it to their advantage.

Bedford that was me. I know 4 cards were ulster, and one was Copeland. Not sure what the one v the chiefs was for. But 5 of 7 cards against Irish players (pos 6, there's a few Irish at chiefs). Then look at which nationality tend to be the most vocal in running him down.....

by MrsP Tue 09 Dec 2014, 8:17 am

To be fair, in the summer the nationality which was most vocal in running him down for his indiscipline was his own.

And I could imagine that he might be able to be goaded into throwing a punch but most of what I see is high tackles, shoulders onto people, late tackles and then the tip which you could not really say are the sort of thing one gets goaded into.

But, if Scarlet fans are content with his discipline...

I just know that I would rather have one of my best players on the pitch than warming the naughty step.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 09 Dec 2014, 9:49 am

MrsP, were you never a fan of Quinlan, O'Callaghan, Hayes, even now Heally for Ireland? Or are you just one of those who throws stones from inside your glass house (as to be honest your coming across that way).

by Chunky Norwich Tue 09 Dec 2014, 9:54 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:MrsP, were you never a fan of Quinlan, O'Callaghan, Hayes, even now Heally for Ireland? Or are you just one of those who throws stones from inside your glass house (as to be honest your coming across that way).

Nah, they've erased St Quinlan's misdemeanours from their memory.

ERCC Round 3, Ulster vs Scarlets - Page 3 Diapod831ecc54a4daf588cb63d997216a50d

ERCC Round 3, Ulster vs Scarlets - Page 3 Diapod831ecc54a4daf588cb63d997216a50d

by MrsP Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:09 am

I will certainly allow Quinlan on the niggle list but DOC has just received his first ever ban (against Ulster I would add) and I can only remember one incident with John Hayes.

Headscratch

I have absolutely no idea what any of that has to do with whether LW is a hot headed fool though?

But none of those players were playing in the game on Saturday which is what I thought we were discussing on a thread entitled,

ERCC Round 3, Ulster vs Scarlets

by bedfordwelsh Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:16 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:As someone mentioned further up thread maybe Ulster just know how to get at him more than other teams and use it to their advantage.

Bedford that was me. I know 4 cards were ulster, and one was Copeland. Not sure what the one v the chiefs was for. But 5 of 7 cards against Irish players (pos 6, there's a few Irish at chiefs). Then look at which nationality tend to be the most vocal in running him down.....

As you said 'people glass houses' etc etc. I'll be honest if I was a coach of any team and Williams or anyone like him was playing against us then I would just say to the boys to get at him and wind him up, let's be honest we all knew the French were easy to get at years backs and thats what teams done.

Many years back (before sin binnings even) and when my now dodgy old knees allowed me to grace the field we had a No10 who had some magical skilss for our level but was also one of the most easiest players on or off the field to wind up and teams in our league knew that, so they tried to get at him from the off be it a bit of verbal or a late hit sly dig etc etc. Sometimes it worked and he gave away penalties but then he would just laugh at the other players as he ran rings round them and scored under the posts or set up a try.

by LordDowlais Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:17 am

MrsP wrote:But none of those players were playing in the game on Saturday which is what I thought we were discussing on a thread entitled

The thing is MrsP you have kept on a bit, and a lot of other Irish members on this site have had their tuppence worth as well, on more than one occasion.SO people are going to point out that Irish players are not the angels that you lot seem to portray them as either. If anything Ulster have a history of incidents with opposition players, I remember the Trevor Brennan incident only too well, so perhaps all these yellow and red cards that Liam Williams has to his name against Ulster are more to do with Ulster than the player himself.

by MrsP Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:34 am

Can you show me where I said any Irish player was an angel?

We were discussing the match on Saturday. If you feel that the yellow cards are not worth discussing then don't discuss them. If you feel that talking about a player who was carded again on Saturday is not worth discussing then don't discuss it.

But to suggest that those discussing it are being unfair because they are not also mentioning the times when other players from other teams received cards is just frankly ridiculous. Even more so when you use the fact they we are not mentioning the time when an Irish player playing for a French team in France climbed into the stand and punched a spectator. What on earth has that got to do with LW's discipline?

If you are happy with LW's discipline then good for you but it is something that I think other people should be allowed to discuss. I don't remember too many Welsh fans being happy with his his lack of self control in the summer but now he is a paragon of virtue except against Ulster?

Headscratch

by Chunky Norwich Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:34 am

I'd prefer Liam Willaims to be a niggly hot headed fool than a racist.

ERCC Round 3, Ulster vs Scarlets - Page 3 Ulsterrugb

by LordDowlais Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:36 am

MrsP wrote:Can you show me where I said any Irish player was an angel?

We were discussing the match on Saturday. If you feel that the yellow cards are not worth discussing then don't discuss them. If you feel that talking about a player who was carded again on Saturday is not worth discussing then don't discuss it.

But to suggest that those discussing it are being unfair because they are not also mentioning the times when other players from other teams received cards is just frankly ridiculous. Even more so when you use the fact they we are not mentioning the time when an Irish player playing for a French team in France climbed into the stand and punched a spectator. What on earth has that got to do with LW's discipline?

If you are happy with LW's discipline then good for you but it is something that I think other people should be allowed to discuss. I don't remember too many Welsh fans being happy with his his lack of self control in the summer but now he is a paragon of virtue except against Ulster?

The game was at Ravenhill wasn't it ?

by MrsP Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:39 am

Posting pictures of gifs of other players doing other things is adding what exactly to the discussion on LW's self control?

by MrsP Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:39 am

LordDowlais wrote:
MrsP wrote:Can you show me where I said any Irish player was an angel?

We were discussing the match on Saturday. If you feel that the yellow cards are not worth discussing then don't discuss them. If you feel that talking about a player who was carded again on Saturday is not worth discussing then don't discuss it.

But to suggest that those discussing it are being unfair because they are not also mentioning the times when other players from other teams received cards is just frankly ridiculous. Even more so when you use the fact they we are not mentioning the time when an Irish player playing for a French team in France climbed into the stand and punched a spectator. What on earth has that got to do with LW's discipline?

If you are happy with LW's discipline then good for you but it is something that I think other people should be allowed to discuss. I don't remember too many Welsh fans being happy with his his lack of self control in the summer but now he is a paragon of virtue except against Ulster?

The game was at Ravenhill wasn't it ?

No. That was why I said it was in France.

by LordDowlais Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:40 am

What people are saying MrsP is that most of his cards have come against Ulster, yet you are saying that he is a liability, he was not a liability for Wales against South Africa, infact he was one of the reasons why we won that game, the fact that most of his cards have come against Ulster, and the fact that Ulster have had previous issues with other opposition players, I think says more about Ulster than the player, or are we not allowed to talk about Ulster and their treatment of opposition players ?

by LordDowlais Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:40 am

MrsP wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
MrsP wrote:Can you show me where I said any Irish player was an angel?

We were discussing the match on Saturday. If you feel that the yellow cards are not worth discussing then don't discuss them. If you feel that talking about a player who was carded again on Saturday is not worth discussing then don't discuss it.

But to suggest that those discussing it are being unfair because they are not also mentioning the times when other players from other teams received cards is just frankly ridiculous. Even more so when you use the fact they we are not mentioning the time when an Irish player playing for a French team in France climbed into the stand and punched a spectator. What on earth has that got to do with LW's discipline?

If you are happy with LW's discipline then good for you but it is something that I think other people should be allowed to discuss. I don't remember too many Welsh fans being happy with his his lack of self control in the summer but now he is a paragon of virtue except against Ulster?

The game was at Ravenhill wasn't it ?

No. That was why I said it was in France.

I think you are wrong on this one, I will check this out.

by MrsP Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:42 am

LordDowlais wrote:
MrsP wrote:But none of those players were playing in the game on Saturday which is what I thought we were discussing on a thread entitled

The thing is MrsP you have kept on a bit, and a lot of other Irish members on this site have had their tuppence worth as well, on more than one occasion.SO people are going to point out that Irish players are not the angels that you lot seem to portray them as either. If anything Ulster have a history of incidents with opposition players, I remember the Trevor Brennan incident only too well, so perhaps all these yellow and red cards that Liam Williams has to his name against Ulster are more to do with Ulster than the player himself.

The game was at Ravenhill wasn't it ?

Maybe not so well after all?

Smile

by LordDowlais Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:45 am

MrsP wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
MrsP wrote:But none of those players were playing in the game on Saturday which is what I thought we were discussing on a thread entitled

The thing is MrsP you have kept on a bit, and a lot of other Irish members on this site have had their tuppence worth as well, on more than one occasion.SO people are going to point out that Irish players are not the angels that you lot seem to portray them as either. If anything Ulster have a history of incidents with opposition players, I remember the Trevor Brennan incident only too well, so perhaps all these yellow and red cards that Liam Williams has to his name against Ulster are more to do with Ulster than the player himself.

The game was at Ravenhill wasn't it ?

Maybe not so well after all?

Yeah well it still involves Ulster.

by MrsP Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:45 am

Well the spectator had been slagging off Brennan's pub in Toulouse which he had been drinking in the night before and the Gendarme were involved so...

by MrsP Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:48 am

LordDowlais wrote:
MrsP wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
MrsP wrote:But none of those players were playing in the game on Saturday which is what I thought we were discussing on a thread entitled

The thing is MrsP you have kept on a bit, and a lot of other Irish members on this site have had their tuppence worth as well, on more than one occasion.SO people are going to point out that Irish players are not the angels that you lot seem to portray them as either. If anything Ulster have a history of incidents with opposition players, I remember the Trevor Brennan incident only too well, so perhaps all these yellow and red cards that Liam Williams has to his name against Ulster are more to do with Ulster than the player himself.

The game was at Ravenhill wasn't it ?

Maybe not so well after all?

Yeah well it still involves Ulster.

Well I will give you that!

It involved no Ulster player and AFAIK Liam Williams was not there so I really fail to see the relevance to the discussion in hand but it certainly happened while Ulster were playing.

by LordDowlais Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:53 am

MrsP wrote:It involved no Ulster player and AFAIK Liam Williams was not there so I really fail to see the relevance to the discussion in hand but it certainly happened while Ulster were playing..

But like you said earlier, this thread is about Liam Williams and Ulster, you are making a point about Liam Williams, and I am making a point about Ulster, you are pointing out Liam's misdemeanours, and I am pointing out Ulster's misdemeanours as well, or are we only allowed to talk about one side of the topic ?

I am of the opinion, that because of the way Ulster conduct themselves as a club, it has more barring on opposition players than the players themselves, after all the club and it's fans do have previous in this sort of thing.

by Pete330v2 Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:06 am

This topic escalated a bit didn't it?

LordDowlais can you give us examples of Ulster's 'previous' that you refer to because bringing up the Brennan incident is irrelevant unless you're using Brennan as an example of a dirty playing thug who was fond of the cheap shots, something Sanjay is not IMO.

by LordDowlais Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:10 am

Pete330v2 wrote:This topic escalated a bit didn't it?

LordDowlais can you give us examples of Ulster's 'previous' that you refer to because bringing up the Brennan incident is irrelevant unless you're using Brennan as an example of a dirty playing thug who was fond of the cheap shots, something Sanjay is not IMO.

I am not talking about individuals, I am talking about the club as a whole and how players get provoked by the club. Whistle

Look, I am just playing devils advocate here, becuase I am fed up of the same sets of fans all grouping around one player, all the time.

by MrsP Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:11 am

So, a Leinster player, playing for a French club punches a supporter in France and that reflects poorly on Ulster and proves that LW has no self control issues????

Okay. So long as you are happy.

thumbsup

by LordDowlais Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:17 am

Anyway, if you want any previous incidents about your beloved province then take a look at these:-

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/1924/Alan-O%E2%80%99Connor-handed-three-week-ban-.aspx

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/ulster-s-declan-fitzpatrick-given-one-match-ban-1.1948027

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/donncha-o-callaghan-cited-for-incident-with-ulster-s-stuart-olding-1.2020475

http://www.joe.ie/rugby/ulster-suspend-player-after-treviso-taxi-incident/34206

There are loads of incidents on the world wide web if you take the time to look. Whistle

by LordDowlais Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:20 am

MrsP wrote:So, a Leinster player, playing for a French club punches a supporter in France and that reflects poorly on Ulster and proves that LW has no self control issues????

Okay. So long as you are happy.

MrsP what are you talking about ? The Trevor Brennan incident has nothing to do with Liam Williams, it has everything to do with Ulster as a province and how the fans and the province portrays itself, if they could wind trevor Brennan up, then why could it be that they did not do the same thing to Liam Williams, because as I have posted above your province has previous in this type of thing, just as you have pointed out about Liam Williams.

by MrsP Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:26 am

I don't need to take the time to look. I remember those incidents, possibly better than you remember the Trevor Brennan one!

If you read the thread you would see where Notch and I both likened LW to the lack of discipline of a (now ex) Ulster player and our frustration about how many penalties he gave away needlessly.

I know that some Scarlet fans feel that way about LW having read comments to that effect on various fora but, it would seem, not the ones posting on this thread.

As I say, continue to praise his self control and blame the opposition all you want.

by LordDowlais Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:31 am

MrsP wrote:As I say, continue to praise his self control and blame the opposition all you want.

I will never praise Liam's self control, he needs to wind his neck in most of the time, but I would not change him for the world, I will except that he has forged a bit of a reputation for himself, but for a supporter from a province where fans and the province itself is hardley the patron saint of anything good in rugby gets on their high horse is a little rich to say the least, almost every week we are finding incidents involving Ulster rugby, and before you start getting on your soap box about individual players then perhaps as a province you should take a look in the mirror first brecause collectivley you are alot worst than any single player.

by **Notch** Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:36 am

LordDowlais wrote:
MrsP wrote:As I say, continue to praise his self control and blame the opposition all you want.

I will never praise Liam's self control, he needs to wind his neck in most of the time, but I would not change him for the world, I will except that he has forged a bit of a reputation for himself, but for a supporter from a province where fans and the province itself is hardley the patron saint of anything good in rugby gets on their high horse is a little rich to say the least, almost every week we are finding incidents involving Ulster rugby, and before you start getting on your soap box about individual players then perhaps as a province you should take a look in the mirror first brecause collectivley you are alot worst than any single player.

Get off your high horse, no-one said we are the patron saints of anything. Your ridiculous generalisations are unnecessary as no-one is attacking Welsh rugby. Ulster have had a pretty normal share of disciplinary incidents, but that doesn't matter- it's just whataboutery. We don't have any individual player as indisciplined as Williams but we have actually had dirtier players than him in the past very much to our collective frustration and disadvantage.

Reading your replies you'd think Ulster fans on this thread were getting laid-in to Liam Williams instead of just pointing out he's incredibly dense and indisciplined. If you make criticisms that are fair, you don't have to apologise for it. No-one has unfairly criticised Williams here. In private, many Scarlets fans say the exact same things about him we have said and I know that for a fact so you might as well uncircle those wagons.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:41 am

Notch wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
MrsP wrote:As I say, continue to praise his self control and blame the opposition all you want.

I will never praise Liam's self control, he needs to wind his neck in most of the time, but I would not change him for the world, I will except that he has forged a bit of a reputation for himself, but for a supporter from a province where fans and the province itself is hardley the patron saint of anything good in rugby gets on their high horse is a little rich to say the least, almost every week we are finding incidents involving Ulster rugby, and before you start getting on your soap box about individual players then perhaps as a province you should take a look in the mirror first brecause collectivley you are alot worst than any single player.

Get off your high horse, no-one said we are the patron saints of anything. Your ridiculous generalisations are unnecessary as no-one is attacking Welsh rugby. Ulster have had a pretty normal share of disciplinary incidents, but ut that doesn't matter- it's just whataboutery. Overly precious and defensive behaviour only derails threads and is not productive.

Reading your replies you'd think Ulster fans on this thread were getting laid-in to Liam Williams instead of just pointing out he's incredibly dense and indisciplined. If you make criticisms that are fair, you don't have to apologise for it. No-one has unfairly criticised Williams here. In private, many Scarlets fans say the exact same things about him we have said and I know that so you might as well uncircle those wagons and grow up.

In which case why should Lord 'Get of his high horse'? Or is this yet another case of having one set of rules for one set of posters and a totally opposite set for others?

by MrsP Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:43 am

That is some horse. Is it high because it is standing on the soap box or because it is a particularily tall horse??

I have never seen a horse on a soap box, with or without an Ulster supporter on it.

As an Ulster supporter it is frustrating seeing our players give away penalties.

I am not sure that saying a single player is more disciplined than an entire club full of players is much of a recommendation but, as I said, LW is a very good player and any team he is in is less effective when he is on the naughty step. If I was a Scarlet supporter I'd rather he sorted his discipline.

by **Notch** Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:46 am

Because this thread was going rightly until the Welsh persecution complex kicked in. And thats all it is. Some people chatting rugby and then people choosing to take offence because they have a persecution complex. Ruins the discussion, ruins the thread, ruins the forum.

As for rules, I'm not enforcing any rules, I'm not acting as a moderator.

Look the bottom line is; if you a player has a poor disciplinary record you should be able to point that out without too much indignation. It's not an attack on Welsh rugby, Welsh regions or Welsh posters.

I'm thinking if this is what people are going to be like why bother starting a thread for next weeks match?

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:47 am

MrsP wrote:That is some horse. Is it high because it is standing on the soap box or because it is a particularily tall horse??

I have never seen a horse on a soap box, with or without an Ulster supporter on it.

As an Ulster supporter it is frustrating seeing our players give away penalties.

I am not sure that saying a single player is more disciplined than an entire club full of players is much of a recommendation but, as I said, LW is a very good player and any team he is in is less effective when he is on the naughty step. If I was a Scarlet supporter I'd rather he sorted his discipline.

But if you were a Scarlets supporter, you would actually find yourself having to defend the lad from gobshoites constantly running him down, over-exaggerating his flaws, and still banging on about poor Saint Trimble being assaulted by him.

by LordDowlais Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:49 am

Notch wrote:Reading your replies you'd think Ulster fans on this thread were getting laid-in to Liam Williams

Well you are, and you have been on here in the past, as well as others, I have not asked for any apologies. I will ask for one now though, I want an apology for your point in saying that you are attacking WELSH rugby, where on here have I said that ? I am just sick to the back teeth with people on here, which include YOU, MrsP and others getting on their high horse and berating Liam Williams, when as a province Ulster are far from perfect and since the start of this season no other province/club/region has courted as much incidents as you, go on check, every other week there is something that Ulster are involved in, as I have posted above, I could have put more, but I didn't. So all I was trying to point out is, for all Liam William's "dullness" perhaps the Ulster players are as much to blame for their part in his stupidity.

by LordDowlais Tue 09 Dec 2014, 11:50 am

P.s Notch, Thank you for editing your article, it means I do not have to reply to your childish response.

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