ERCC Round 3, Ulster vs Scarlets

First topic message reminder :

Date: Saturday, 7 December
Venue: Ravenhill, Belfast
Kick-off: 19:45 GMT
Referee: Luke Pearce (England)

Ulster

15 Louis Ludik
14 Tommy Bowe
13 Darren Cave
12 Stuart Olding
11 Craig Gilroy
10 Ian Humphreys
9 Ruan Pienaar

1 Callum Black
2 Rory Best (capt)
3 Wiehahn Herbst
4 Dan Tuohy
5 Franco van der Merwe
6 Robbie Diack
7 Roger Wilson
8 Nick Williams

16 Rob Herring, 17 Andy Warwick, 18 Declan Fitzpatrick, 19 Alan O’Connor, 20 Clive Ross, 21 Paul Marshall, 22 Stuart McCloskey, 23 Michael Allen

Scarlets

15 Liam Williams
14 Harry Robinson
13 Regan King
12 Scott Williams (capt)
11 Michael Tagicakibau
10 Rhys Priestland
9 Aled Davies

1 Rob Evans
2 Emyr Phillips
3 Samson Lee
4 Jake Ball
5 Johan Snyman
6 Aaron Shingler
7 James Davies
8 Rory Pitman

16 Kirby Myhill, 17 Phil John, 18 Rhodri Jones, 19 George Earle, 20 Lewis Rawlins, 21 Rhodri Williams, 22 Steven Shingler, 23 Gareth Owen

The Great Aukster wrote:

Notch wrote:It's never a bad result to win at Ravenhill Aukster. I doubt we'll get out of our pool but for 12 years when we didn't qualify we hung onto our home record as a badge of pride and it's no different now whatever else happens.

I don't care if the All Blacks or Finn Valley U13s, we play at Ravenhill- everything for the win. Thats just pride, but success is partly about building a culture and pride has a big role to play.

I didn't say it was a bad result to win. It was a poor result in the context of Ulster's season because the bonus point just keeps Ulster in with a glimmer of qualification that they could have done without. While there is still a chance to qualify from the pool they are going to have to put in three more "bodies on the line" performances from the elite players that will leave the team threadbare come April/May. So even if they qualify they are unlikely to win the Cup and it reduces their chance in League.

Weren't you arguing on the International thread that it's all about silverware rather than squad management?

And building a winning culture is a step towards silverware. The next three games are like Cup finals- if we want to win the Pro12 we'll have to win a literal cup final so the practice of playing in all or nothing must-win games is pretty important.

We will suffer injuries but that just seems to be a sad and unavoidable fact of the modern game.

Job done...will need a much better performance next week to get the win, never mind 5 points.

Some impressive individual display's, Bowe, Williams, Cave and Ludik in particular and some good interplay in the backs but we still look someway off our form from the last few years, or even the Glasgow performance. Can't complain though, 5 points in those conditions isn't easy....another 10 points against Scarlets and Leicester, a win over Toulon and that should be enough to qualify....

There is a common belief that a team receiving a yellow card will be punished by an average of seven points.

For Liam Willaims nearly every game I've seen him play he has been yellow carded, and I was thinking if he was that much better than his back up that the yellow cards make up for points conceeded.

Looking at his stats this year (not counting Friendlies)
Played 8 2 yellows and a red.
last year Played 17 1 yellow and 1 red
total played 74 5 yellows 2 reds

It does seam to be be a very high card count.

Notch wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:That was Liam Williams third yellow card against Ulster this season (he got red against us in the Rabo).  It seems to be every other game hes getting binned for the Scarlets, not to mention his yellows and reds for Wales.

Any team that keeps picking this guy deserves everything they get, he is a thoroughly nasty little player.

Yeah we get it. He's still vilified in Ravenhill for beating up Trimble in an act of self defence. It's a shame he can't be an angel like every single irish player.

PS, when he actually gouges someone, maybe then you can call him a nasty little player.

Are you seriously suggesting he's not indisciplined and prone to senseless acts of foul play?

No, hence me saying he can't be an angel like every single Irish player. Not so sure what he done wrong in this game, but you just got to love how most Scarlet threads end up in a Liam Williams slagging session. I guess the Welsh are used to it now though, folk on here have a new player to pick on every month.

Kingshu wrote:There is a common belief that a team receiving a yellow card will be punished by an average of seven points.

For Liam Willaims nearly every game I've seen him play he has been yellow carded, and I was thinking if he was that much better than his back up that the yellow cards make up for points conceeded.

Looking at his stats this year (not counting Friendlies)
Played 8 2 yellows and a red.
last year Played 17 1 yellow and 1 red
total played 74 5 yellows 2 reds

It does seam to be be a very high card count.

Given the stats then, you don't really watch many games that he is involved in, so I think I missed your point there. The card count is obviously an issue and one that can be resolved, hopefully this season. I don't see how he is a thoroughly nasty little player on the back of a few cards though? Most of which for technical misdemeanours, not foul play, as far as I can remember. He's no more a thoroughly nasty player than Cian Healy.

Of course the card count does not tell the whole story but it works both ways. He escaped punishment for a vicious elbow on Paddy Jackson in the 6N last year.

Didn't see the game but how badly were the Scarlets missing John Barclay?

Could they lend him to Glasgow for today's game

VinceWLB wrote:Didn't see the game but how badly were the Scarlets missing John Barclay?

Could they lend him to Glasgow for today's game

Not that badly, they've unearthed a very good, natural 7 in James Davies. A player who I rate and was fairly impressed with, apart from an absolutely moronic act of foul that earned him a deserved yellow. Their problems were not in the back row.

Thanks Notch, i have noticed this James Davies before, he is a cracking wee player if lacking a bit of physicality but that will come with time, the next Tipuric surely.

Maybe this is the time for Barclay to move back to Glasgow then? i would take him back in a hurry.

theslosty wrote:Of course the card count does not tell the whole story but it works both ways. He escaped punishment for a vicious elbow on Paddy Jackson in the 6N last year.

True. I seen Cian Healy get off with a strike to the face of Paul Tito. Luckily he got punished when he last tried to break someone's ankle though.

Cian Healy doesn't play for Ulster. Regardless, this thread can be better than this kind of idiotic whataboutery.

Notch wrote:Cian Healy doesn't play for Ulster. Regardless, this thread can be better than this kind of idiotic whataboutery.

True. Neither is it about how Liam Williams is some apparent thug. You wouldn't agree with people saying it about Payne after his red card would you.

I haven't watched the game, so I'm generally wondering why Williams received a YC?

The Saint wrote:

Notch wrote:Cian Healy doesn't play for Ulster. Regardless, this thread can be better than this kind of idiotic whataboutery.

True. Neither is it about how Liam Williams is some apparent thug. You wouldn't agree with people saying it about Payne after his red card would you.

I haven't watched the game, so I'm generally wondering why Williams received a YC?

He picked up our fullback and drove him head first into the ground, the wee misunderstood angel. It's only his third yellow against Ulster in two games this season. I think we'll get on fine when he stops trying to injure people and just plays rugby. Until then, pointing out he's a cheap shot merchant is not unfair.

The Saint wrote:

Kingshu wrote:There is a common belief that a team receiving a yellow card will be punished by an average of seven points.

For Liam Willaims nearly every game I've seen him play he has been yellow carded, and I was thinking if he was that much better than his back up that the yellow cards make up for points conceeded.

Looking at his stats this year (not counting Friendlies)
Played 8 2 yellows and a red.
last year Played 17 1 yellow and 1 red
total played 74 5 yellows 2 reds

It does seam to be be a very high card count.

Given the stats then, you don't really watch many games that he is involved in, so I think I missed your point there. The card count is obviously an issue and one that can be resolved, hopefully this season. I don't see how he is a thoroughly nasty little player on the back of a few cards though? Most of which for technical misdemeanours, not foul play, as far as I can remember. He's no more a thoroughly nasty player than Cian Healy.

Stats are just for Scarlets haven't checked international.

Good luck with him fixing it this season, it's already one yellow card worse off than last year, so I can see its something he must be working hard on.

Notch, you said earlier in the thread that Williams' card was a bit harsh and only borderline yellow. Now you say it's more clear cut/deliberate? I haven't seen it. What has made you change your opinion?

Griff wrote:Notch, you said earlier in the thread that Williams' card was a bit harsh and only borderline yellow. Now you say it's more clear cut/deliberate? I haven't seen it. What has made you change your opinion?

I haven't changed my opinion, I still think it was borderline whether it was yellow but it was certainly foul play. And it was certainly stupid and an example of a cheap shot. The thing is Ludik was already on the ground.

I do think it was borderline both ways. Could have been a red too with some refs.

I am coming round to seeing it as more clear cut foul play the more I view it. In real time I wasn't that fussed.

Thanks Notch

Don't get me wrong on this I like Scarlets, my orginal point is that Willaims is a bit of a liability, ignoring the red card and using the common belief that a team receiving a yellow card will be punished by an average of seven points.

Against Ulster this year is he really worth 14 points over Gareth Owen?

The Williams Yellow was a real mixed bag as Ludik was almost (but not quite) on the ground when LW picked up his legs but then LW lifts both his legs high and really drives him into the pitch. LW has such great skills but he seems a cheap shot merchant. He just seems to do something dirty in almost every match.
If he played for us I would be raging that he spends so long off the pitch because of his lack of self control.

Kingshu wrote:Don't get me wrong on this I like Scarlets, my orginal point is that Willaims is a bit of a liability, ignoring the red card and using the common belief that a team receiving a yellow card will be punished by an average of seven points.

Against Ulster this year is he really worth 14 points over Gareth Owen?

Is it not 21 points?

I am sure its already been covered but before I answered the quote about Williams I wanted to get my facts right first.  He has NEVER been sent off for Wales and can't find a record of him being yellow carded either.

For the Scarlets yes Wales NO and I also admit he is a bit of a loose cannon but from a Welsh point of view I would have him as our first chocie XV, he is more attack minded that Halfpenny and we looked more theatening in the games he moved to XV in.

What will also help LW is getting to the end of this month, so he can shave off that bloody 'tache.

Whenever I see him, I can't help but think he should be playing the piano in the corner of a saloon bar when John Wayne throws open the double doors and walks in order to a double moonshine and the strumpet from the back room.

Surely Movember is over???

His excuse was gone 7 days ago!

Movember is never funny to West Walians with year round weak moustaches!

Notch wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Notch wrote:Cian Healy doesn't play for Ulster. Regardless, this thread can be better than this kind of idiotic whataboutery.

True. Neither is it about how Liam Williams is some apparent thug. You wouldn't agree with people saying it about Payne after his red card would you.

I haven't watched the game, so I'm generally wondering why Williams received a YC?

He picked up our fullback and drove him head first into the ground, the wee misunderstood angel. It's only his third yellow against Ulster in two games this season. I think we'll get on fine when he stops trying to injure people and just plays rugby. Until then, pointing out he's a cheap shot merchant is not unfair.

Seems more like a tackle gone awry, than a cheap shot. If it was off the ball, or a deliberate shoulder charge, I think it would be classed as a cheap shot. The dump/tip tackle seems like it's still a grey area, admittedly I've not seen the incident, but I think it would be wrong in judging the incident as him trying to injure the opposition. I hope Pivac has a word anyway. The whole team could do with a word when reflecting on the scoreline actually...
I think mine and most fans gripe is that whether or not LW has been involved he'll get a mention and referred to as a thug, etc...followed by an influx of accusations (most of which being false). Seems to happen to Welsh players more often than other nationalities. Now Mike Phillips and Lee Byrne are all but spent it seems there's a new Welsh target.

The Saint wrote:

Notch wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Notch wrote:Cian Healy doesn't play for Ulster. Regardless, this thread can be better than this kind of idiotic whataboutery.

True. Neither is it about how Liam Williams is some apparent thug. You wouldn't agree with people saying it about Payne after his red card would you.

I haven't watched the game, so I'm generally wondering why Williams received a YC?

He picked up our fullback and drove him head first into the ground, the wee misunderstood angel. It's only his third yellow against Ulster in two games this season. I think we'll get on fine when he stops trying to injure people and just plays rugby. Until then, pointing out he's a cheap shot merchant is not unfair.

Seems more like a tackle gone awry, than a cheap shot. If it was off the ball, or a deliberate shoulder charge, I think it would be classed as a cheap shot. The dump/tip tackle seems like it's still a grey area, admittedly I've not seen the incident, but I think it would be wrong in judging the incident as him trying to injure the opposition. I hope Pivac has a word anyway. The whole team could do with a word when reflecting on the scoreline actually...
I think mine and most fans gripe is that whether or not LW has been involved he'll get a mention and referred to as a thug, etc...followed by an influx of accusations (most of which being false). Seems to happen to Welsh players more often than other nationalities. Now Mike Phillips and Lee Byrne are all but spent it seems there's a new Welsh target.

No, I just think he tries to injure the opposition when he does things like dropping the elbow into Paddy Jacksons head, this is an example of his indisciplined stupidity.

As for that happening to Welsh more than anyone else, thats your selective memory at work.

Notch wrote:No, I just think he tries to injure the opposition when he does things like dropping the elbow into Paddy Jacksons head, this is an example of his indisciplined stupidity.

As for that happening to Welsh more than anyone else, thats your selective memory at work.

I actually think Liam Williams is a good player but also an idiotic one. He thinks he's JPR but JPR could have got away with the tip tackle and indeed be lauded for it - hello Liam the game has changed. LW is playing like an amateur (sans tv) and is about 40 years behind his time

Notch wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Notch wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Notch wrote:Cian Healy doesn't play for Ulster. Regardless, this thread can be better than this kind of idiotic whataboutery.

True. Neither is it about how Liam Williams is some apparent thug. You wouldn't agree with people saying it about Payne after his red card would you.

I haven't watched the game, so I'm generally wondering why Williams received a YC?

He picked up our fullback and drove him head first into the ground, the wee misunderstood angel. It's only his third yellow against Ulster in two games this season. I think we'll get on fine when he stops trying to injure people and just plays rugby. Until then, pointing out he's a cheap shot merchant is not unfair.

Seems more like a tackle gone awry, than a cheap shot. If it was off the ball, or a deliberate shoulder charge, I think it would be classed as a cheap shot. The dump/tip tackle seems like it's still a grey area, admittedly I've not seen the incident, but I think it would be wrong in judging the incident as him trying to injure the opposition. I hope Pivac has a word anyway. The whole team could do with a word when reflecting on the scoreline actually...
I think mine and most fans gripe is that whether or not LW has been involved he'll get a mention and referred to as a thug, etc...followed by an influx of accusations (most of which being false). Seems to happen to Welsh players more often than other nationalities. Now Mike Phillips and Lee Byrne are all but spent it seems there's a new Welsh target.

No, I just think he tries to injure the opposition when he does things like dropping the elbow into Paddy Jacksons head, this is an example of his indisciplined stupidity.

As for that happening to Welsh more than anyone else, thats your selective memory at work.

Notch you don't half go on, if Liam Williams wore a Ireland jersey or a South African jersey he would be called physical.
The reality is Ulster ALWAYS get a home town ref weaker the better.

Well, that's one mystery solved!

@DeludedOptimistorjustDave



"Notch you don't half go on, if Liam Williams wore a Ireland jersey or a South African jersey he would be called physical.
The reality is Ulster ALWAYS get a home town ref weaker the better."

You are deluded, Deluded

George Carlin wrote:What will also help LW is getting to the end of this month, so he can shave off that bloody 'tache.

Whenever I see him, I can't help but think he should be playing the piano in the corner of a saloon bar when John Wayne throws open the double doors and walks in order to a double moonshine and the strumpet from the back room.

He does walk as though he's done a week in the saddle.

Notch wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Notch wrote:Cian Healy doesn't play for Ulster. Regardless, this thread can be better than this kind of idiotic whataboutery.

True. Neither is it about how Liam Williams is some apparent thug. You wouldn't agree with people saying it about Payne after his red card would you.

I haven't watched the game, so I'm generally wondering why Williams received a YC?

He picked up our fullback and drove him head first into the ground, the wee misunderstood angel. It's only his third yellow against Ulster in two games this season. I think we'll get on fine when he stops trying to injure people and just plays rugby. Until then, pointing out he's a cheap shot merchant is not unfair.

That's one heck of an inflammatory exaggeration.
Wonder who moderates the moderators on this site.

If he had in fact "drove him head first into the ground" then its unlikely the receiving player would of walked away really but I guess that's your idea of poetic licence.

2ndtimeround wrote:

Notch wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Notch wrote:Cian Healy doesn't play for Ulster. Regardless, this thread can be better than this kind of idiotic whataboutery.

True. Neither is it about how Liam Williams is some apparent thug. You wouldn't agree with people saying it about Payne after his red card would you.

I haven't watched the game, so I'm generally wondering why Williams received a YC?

He picked up our fullback and drove him head first into the ground, the wee misunderstood angel. It's only his third yellow against Ulster in two games this season. I think we'll get on fine when he stops trying to injure people and just plays rugby. Until then, pointing out he's a cheap shot merchant is not unfair.

That's one heck of an inflammatory exaggeration.
Wonder who moderates the moderators on this site.

If he had in fact "drove him head first into the ground" then its unlikely the receiving player would of walked away really but I guess that's your idea of poetic licence.

The moderators do. If you have an issue, report it, and it will be dealt in the same way as anyone else (appart from GG who is allowed to do whatever he wants as long as he agrees to change his username every few months )

And players can get up and walk away from surprising things, and innocuous ones can cripple them for life.

Not really bothered by it as it was meant as a rhetorical question rather than a genuine one which is why I didn't bother with the "?".
Though I do thinking deliberate baiting of a certain set of fans is not really the behaviour you would expect of a moderator of anything. Each their own though.

I didn't think the tackle was that bad to be honest - worthy of a yellow to the letter of the (current) law, but otherwise fairly technically sound... just a bit exuberant with the follow through and unfortunate with the landing.

rodders wrote:I didn't think the tackle was that bad to be honest - worthy of a yellow to the letter of the (current) law, but otherwise fairly technically sound... just a bit exuberant with the follow through and unfortunate with the landing.

That's a fair description. Sanjay knew he had made a mess of the tackle as soon as he made it but it looked to me more clumsy than malicious.

2ndtimeround wrote:

rodders wrote:I didn't think the tackle was that bad to be honest - worthy of a yellow to the letter of the (current) law, but otherwise fairly technically sound... just a bit exuberant with the follow through and unfortunate with the landing.

That's a fair description. Sanjay knew he had made a mess of the tackle as soon as he made it but it looked to me more clumsy than malicious.

...but he continued to follow through and drive the player into the ground?

That's quite an indictment!

MrsP wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:

rodders wrote:I didn't think the tackle was that bad to be honest - worthy of a yellow to the letter of the (current) law, but otherwise fairly technically sound... just a bit exuberant with the follow through and unfortunate with the landing.

That's a fair description. Sanjay knew he had made a mess of the tackle as soon as he made it but it looked to me more clumsy than malicious.

...but he continued to follow through and drive the player into the ground?

That's quite an indictment!

yeah I don't see it as sinister as that mrs p - tackling is mostly instinctive and in real time this all happens in a split second and looks much worse on the replay. I don't think he decides half way through the tackle to follow through, rather the drive is initiated in the initial hit and he doesn't hold back or attempt to set Ludik down. If Ludik lands on his back then it's play on and a good tackle.

Ludik has quite a low centre of gravity and is fairly lightweight, making him easy to tip so I think its just unfortunate rather than malicious. I've seen him land on his head a few times now.

Artful_Dodger wrote:That was Liam Williams third yellow card against Ulster this season (he got red against us in the Rabo).  It seems to be every other game hes getting binned for the Scarlets, not to mention his yellows and reds for Wales.

Any team that keeps picking this guy deserves everything they get, he is a thoroughly nasty little player.

What Red Cards for Wales?

Also this season, he has had 3 yellows for the Scarlets, and all have been against Ulster.  Last season two of his yellow cards (and a red) were against the Blues, one for hitting the man in the air (justified totally) and the other for smacking Robin Copeland after Copeland had just stamped on his head!  Sorry but to be honest, there comes a time where a player deserves a slap, and stamping on your head is more than justified.

Kingshu wrote:
Looking at his stats this year (not counting Friendlies)
Played 8 2 yellows and a red.
last year Played 17 1 yellow and 1 red
total played 74 5 yellows 2 reds

It does seam to be be a very high card count.

 not sure anything else really needs to be said to that (oops misread that, as It DOESN'T seam to be that high a card count!)  Given that of those 5 yellows over half have been against Ulster, and also two of those cards have been when BOTH players have been carded.  Also both red cards were for double yellows (tackle in air/punching after being stamped on & can't remember/knocking a player over running to the ruck-10 out of ten for the dive)



Anyway to the game at hand.  The Scarlets really let themselves down, we seemed to put in such a good performance defensively, turning over so much ball, but then we made some really howlers.  Scott Williams trying to rip the ball from Ruan, instead of just smashing him, leading to one try.  A few players being caught between minds when the ball was spun out wide etc.  Ulster definitely deserved the win.

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Notch you don't half go on, if Liam Williams wore a Ireland jersey or a South African jersey he would be called physical.

Ulster had a player like that. He was called Ryan Caldwell. He wasn't physical, he was an eejit who's repeated sin binnings cost us games and let his teammates down. Thats what Liam Williams is. Once he left Ulster he cleaned up his act and now he's a very good player. Williams would also be a better player if he sorted himself out.

I didn't think what Williams did was that bad. although it probably deserved a yellow, I honestly didn't think so at the time and would have had little problem with him remaining on the pitch. It was, however, reckless and stupid. Most of what he does isn't that bad. James Davies late hit on Humphreys was the only real act of foul play in the game. The reason we're not talking about it is that its not every second game you see him do something like that. But Williams is doing that on a more regular basis; he's hot-headed, indisciplined and incredibly dense. You can't get upset when someone calls a spade a spade.

The truth is, you can get annoyed about me pointing that out all you like; I don't care because its not my team it's hurting and it's not my career it's hurting. The people who suffer from his indiscipline and frequent sin-binnings are Scarlets and Liam Williams. If he genuinely hurts one of our players one day through his stupid challenges then I'll be annoyed, but as far as I'm concerned he's just an idiot who likes shooting himself in the foot. But at least he cares. I have more respect for Liam Williams who looks like he cares about being there for his region compared to some players. Like when George North played for the Scarlets, you'd see him play against us and he so obviously didn't give a toss it was embarrassing. The difference between his Wales performances and his regional performances was huge. At least Williams has some passion.

Notch wrote:I didn't think what Williams did was that bad. although it probably deserved a yellow, I honestly didn't think so at the time and would have had little problem with him remaining on the pitch. It was, however, reckless and stupid. Most of what he does isn't that bad. James Davies late hit on Humphreys was the only real act of foul play in the game. The reason we're not talking about it is that its not every second game you see him do something like that. But Williams is doing that on a more regular basis; he's hot-headed, indisciplined and incredibly dense. You can't get upset when someone calls a spade a spade.
.

James Davies' late hit was reckless, not sure there was any intent in it. I do wonder if the game was played elsewhere (At Parc Y Scarlets for instance) whether that would have even been picked up, as the crowd reaction wouldn't have been there. That said I have always said it is the job of the home support to let the ref know how much worse the 50-50 incidents are when they are done to you, than when you do them, so have no issues with the outcome.

And to be fair there were a few other tackles in that game (from both sides) that rode higher that they should have.

Also with respect to Liam Williams, the way threads descend into 'Sanjay is the devil/misunderstood' really sucks.

It's funny because I was thinking the same thing Notch, how he's like Caldwell with his indiscipline. He just did not know when to stop at the breakdown. I am sure he thought that the ref could not possibly be talking to him when he was shouting,

"Hands away, Ruck!"

because he was called Ryan, not Ruck!

If one of our most effective players was costing us by being off the pitch so uneccessarily I would be furious. He is quite young though so maybe he will wise up.

Am sure the Scarlets and Wales have had words but he's not been sent off for Wales and I for one would rather see him at XV than Halfpenny.

MrsP wrote:It's funny because I was thinking the same thing Notch, how he's like Caldwell with his indiscipline. He just did not know when to stop at the breakdown. I am sure he thought that the ref could not possibly be talking to him when he was shouting,

"Hands away, Ruck!"

because he was called Ryan, not Ruck!

If one of our most effective players was costing us by being off the pitch so uneccessarily I would be furious. He is quite young though so maybe he will wise up.

Just been doing a Kingshu stat collecting mission.

Liam Williams yellow cards for the Scarlets since his have been

Ulster - 4 (one red for double yellow)
Cardiff Blues - 2 (one red for double yellow)
Exeter Chiefs - 1

His first yellow against Ulster was that incident with Trimble, and both were carded lest you pious lot forget. Since then he Ulster (and more interestingly Irish players) seem to have been his real issue. Whether it is a case of them being able to get in his head better than other teams etc, who knows.

So, are you saying that LW is only a hot headed fool against Irish teams?

What about the summer tour?

No card, though I don't really understand why not since he prevented a try by foul play, but I can't think there were many Irishmen there goading him into dropping a shoulder.

MrsP wrote:So, are you saying that LW is only a hot headed fool against Irish teams?

What about the summer tour?

No card, though I don't really understand why not since he prevented a try by foul play, but I can't think there were many Irishmen there goading him into dropping a shoulder.

Oh come of it.  First thing is that over half od his cards have come against ONE side, that could be a coincidence, or it could also be that the that teams (and especially their fans) seem to harbour the largest dislike for him.

Second, that last ditch attempt to stop a player scoring in the corner was a hot-headed action, and IMO probably about 75-90% of international fullbacks would have made some similar attempt, I know Halfpenny did a similar one against England before an was hailed a hero for it.

---also those card stats were purely from his career at the scarlets-: 78 Games, 7 Yellow Cards, 2 Red Cards (both for double yellow), 96pts scored http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/rugby/people.php?player=96023&includeref=dynamic ---

Well, he's your player and if you don't think he has a problem with discipline then on your own head be it.

So long as he doesn't injure someone.

I think he is a hot-headed cheap shot merchant who is also a very skilled rugby player. If he spends 10 mins off the pitch every time you play against us I will have no complaints, so long as he doesn't injure anyone.

PS. What sanction did Halfpenny receive?

Are his stats any better or worse than many other players, I bet if someone was to do a similar stat across the board then I wouldn't have thought he is that worse than others, some yes but not others.

I doubt you would find many backs with a worse record, but, as I say, he's your problem and if you don't think his discipline is a problem...

bedfordwelsh wrote:Are his stats any better or worse than many other players, I bet if someone was to do a similar stat across the board then I wouldn't have thought he is that worse than others, some yes but not others.

no worse than Delon Armitage