Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

First topic message reminder :

I like triangulars  that Aus hosts...there is a continuity and history with these.

and Just before the world cup...the 3 big brothers get the prime practise slot in the world cup conditions.....
it's a shame Aus found  no space for Harris and Lyon in the world cup squad...and India couldn't accommodate Vijay.( see story in next post)

to me in the triangular Aus are sure to make the finals and Ind inspite of their excellent overall record are about even with Eng...
better batting than Eng but the spinners that Ind relies so much on are not as much effective

Said that, I agree with KPF that even by their pathetic standards, this was a disappointing effort from the bowlers, on a track where the England seamers ran riot, the bunch of no-hopers couldn't find a way to get a 2nd wicket!.

msp83 wrote:I would have liked Umesh Yadav to be bowling at 150 KPH and always at the stumps or the batsmen's head, I would like Bhuvneshwar Kumar to swing the ball in and out at 140 KPH, I would like Akshar Patel to spen a web of confusion against helpless batsmen, I would like Stuart Binny to always bowl tight line and length and give nothing away and chip in with wickets regularly.
But that requires that their skill levels are to be at that level. Unfortunatly, none of our bowlers are extraordinary. They haven't evolved into fine operators through long experience either. They haven't come through a domestic program that gives them something to work with, (remember the scores in the last couple of challenger tournaments, can't remember much under 350 regularly). So with not much in the 'extraordinary' department in terms of skills, without much in terms of experience, the only way is to hope the batsmen will save the day.
But calamities like today's can happen now and then, in such conditions, there is absolutely no chance whatsoever........ Not the ideal situation, but that's what it is if you are an Indian supporter.......

These bowlers are better than we might think...

Te captain doesn't put the responsibility on bowlers,
Because he doesn't know how to manage bowlers to get them to bowl to take wickets
to think through situations as a captain and together with bowlers...
to strategize on a batsmen't weakness
and then plan the dismissals.

KPF, to work out a strategy, first thing you need is basic discipline, the ability to bowl to the field. You can set all the attacking field you want, you can have 3 slips, but if the next ball is a leg stump full toss or a half-tracker at 125 KPH with no sense of line and length, there is nothing that the captain can do.

msp83 wrote:KPF, to work out a strategy, first thing you need is basic discipline, the ability to bowl to the field. You can set all the attacking field you want, you can have 3 slips, but if the next ball is a leg stump full toss or a half-tracker at 125 KPH with no sense of line and length, there is nothing that the captain can do.

Dhoni in his mind gives up if it's less than 270..he has conditioned his bowlers...to spread field, vary the bowling...and not conceded more than 5 RPO.

because his 1 dimensional approach is that of choking / slowing it down to take the game to the last 2 to 3 overs .

It's not that the bowlers cannot bowl tight, consistent spells with the aim of taking wickets.

it's just that Dhonis' entire game plan in 50 overs an in T20s is so focused around...varying / slowing / choking to protect 6RPO ....
and so strong and unchecked were his powers that that's how the entire current breed of feeding on ODIs and T20 bowling has gotten conditioned to bowl.

well done to the 'un-selectable' Finn, great to see him in the wickets, also great to see Taylor in the runs... AGAIN!!

I didn't watch the game live.....but as I saw the highlights package i noticed most of Finn's deliveries were around 132kph.....with a few hitting mid 130s.

That's a 15kph drop in pace from the Finn we saw when he visited India under Cook's debut captaincy as an ODI player

He got the wickets......but at this pace....he ain't gonna be a very potent bowler.

For India Binny has added a yard of pace and was hitting 131 kph in his opening spell.....that's almost Finn's pace

The game did a lot of good to Binny's credentials as the 5th bowler cum 7th batsman.
India must give him a run now...play him every game.

Well he had to adjust his action because of his problems with hitting the stumps all the time.

Judging from yesterday (I watched most of the match) he exercised a lot more control at the expense of that reduction in pace. Nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, it is a smart move and he deserves credit for working hard on his action and delivery. He had almost the perfect line and length and obviously the benefits of this new approach paid off handsomely for him. It was good to see him reap the rewards.

Binny, on the other hand, was just chunting in at mid-high 120s mostly. Going through the motions with hardly any threat to the batsmen. Time enough to set a 12-person dinner table and then give those slower deliveries the serving they deserved. There was a vast difference between the two yesterday as the scorecard shows.

Surely Aaron would be able to do more with his express pace or has he already been written off for this tournament and the WC?

I think England can take Australia tonight - if only because the home side are resting some players, in particular David Warner.

Still, it should serve to be a healthy morale-booster if it comes off.

If anyone is up watching this advertisement for 'stan' there is some pretty decent england batting going on during the breaks...

Come on England   just smash it.. We should have hit 340 minimum after our start.

At this rate we will be lucky to reach 320.

England never fail to get the total they should.

Root and bell played great but we needed one of morgan/buttler/bop to smash a quick 40 of 20..

woke up just.....looked at the score card
and Wow! 303..... Eng is doing wonders under their new captain.
Unless stung by Maxwell, they should sail through

Great innings from Bell!

As a team though we simply have to convert that to 350. We never seem to make the huge scores and if we cant do it from that position when will we ever do it?

Aus have a chance here, teams fancy chasing down 300 these days, 350 they would have to take a lot more risks and probably gift some wickets in the process

Kp_fan

you didnt watch the game.

we could have got close to 400. we smashed them first 30 overs.

but to be fair to Aus - there death bowling was good.

Oh well, good try by England. At least it might take Australia 40+ overs to win.

It's a shame bell didn't save the once in a lifetime innings until the world cup

Easy to say in hindsight but we could have done with Tredwell here. Surely Bopara has to bowl at some point if he's ever going to get a bowl. Or is he in the side purely as the (non) finisher?

mystiroakey wrote:Kp_fan

you didnt watch the game.

we could have got close to 400. we smashed them first 30 overs.

but to be fair to Aus - there death bowling was good.

yes that's true closer look at the scorecard reveals.....from 2-250 odd in 41 overs......the finish should have been upwards of 325

But the pressure of a 300 + score is monumental as you can already see.....suddenly Aus are 3 down for 90 from 76-0
Unless Maxwell plays a blinder Eng should still sail through comfortably.....he is the poor man's ABDV these days

Finn to Maxwell, 1 run, dropped! Full and swinging in again, and Maxwell flicks uppishly, to the left of Anderson at short midwicket. It went quickly, and he dived full length and got his hand to it but couldn't hold on. Tough chance, that.

I hope it doesn't prove costly.......if you absolutely do not want to drop one guy defending a big chase...it's this one

and the worrisome factor from Eng's POV...that the RRR is still 6 for Aus.....

which means if they keep going in smaller / medium sized partnerships they are still with a chance given that they have a Klusener quality finisher in Faulkner at 8 and a hitter of Akram's prowess in Starc at 9 and I understand Cummins can bat a bit too.

They've gotta pluck out Maxwell before he crosses 50

I think Aus are favourites now - we lack wicket taking options and Tredwell to keep things tight. They are up with the run rate with batting to come.

Bopara's over was a car crash and I think his place must be under threat. That's not a knee-jerk but I don't see what his role in the team is. Sticking Ballance or Hales in at 6 has got to be worth a try now - not ideal given where they usually bat, but I can't see how they can do any worse.

Well played Australia.

I'll have to try that again!!!

Maxwell gone....and now Eng will win...
the game might twist, and  turn, and  meander and Aus might at points  look like threatening to overhaul...but Eng will cross the line with anwhere  from 15 to 25 runs in the bag at least

Hoggy_Bear wrote:I'll have to try that again!!!

Keep em coming!

Australia going well here.

Smith and Faulkner - the last two people you'd want at the crease in this situation. Aussies are massive favourites now!

Even though Australia seem to me to be a batsman light in this game, they're definitely on top. Currently 197/4 off 34, needing 107 more.

We're going to need to get all 10 wickets to win this one. As others have said, the last 10 overs of our knock let us down badly.

VTR echoes the doubts and concerns I've been voicing for a whiile about Bopara. Also similar to VTR, I would like to see Tredwell in the side.

Australia winning this easily.

How would we get Tredwell in the side. Form says Broad would go, but he's just coming back and is a vastly experienced bowler in ODIs and in these conditions.

My hunch is Woakes would have to be the man to go. Harsh as he has done well recently, but I feel he could be cannon fodder if the ball doesn't swing. Not sure we can afford him and Anderson in the same team in non-swinging conditions.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Australia winning this easily.

A couple of quickish wickets would turn things round a lot but I agree with Hoggy how it looks ....

There you go

Do we have the confidence to get on top of Haddin after the last Ashes? - even a version of Haddin in horrendous form

Aus were never "on top" since the departure of Maxwell.....Eng were with their nose ahead....and just as Aus looked like getting even....Faulkner goes...and Eng with their nose ahead again.

KPF wrote:the game might twist, and turn, and meander and Aus might at points look like threatening to overhaul...but Eng will cross the line with anwhere from 15 to 25 runs in the bag at least

Never on top I would agree with, but in a manageable position all along. 100 off the last 15 is not something to worry about these days.

Aus still have a massive chance to win, we need to get Smith out

VTR wrote:Never on top I would agree with, but in a manageable position all along. 100 off the last 15 is not something to worry about these days.

even though flat by Aussie standards.....This is not  subcontinental Patta.

with every good over...the RRR will jump up from 7 towards 8....and....it will get tougher with 5 wkts down

and when the next wkt falls the quality of batting available in hand for Aus will deteriorate and the additional pressure of " not much batting behind me" will worry those batting.

Eng needs to get 2 good overs on a trott now...like no more than 10 runs

and woakes bowls one of those good overs and RRR already upto nearly 7.5
one more good over will prodcue a wicket

That was a tight over from Woakes. The key was Haddin on strike, he is badly out of touch

Finn bowled 9 run over and then Board 7 run over

Eng needs to get one real tight over in here this one now

Need at least two more wickets very quickly

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Need at least two more wickets very quickly

one would do.....Eng have not been able to get that one choking over in....RRR still 7.5

All over

VTR wrote:How would we get Tredwell in the side. Form says Broad would go, but he's just coming back and is a vastly experienced bowler in ODIs and in these conditions.

My hunch is Woakes would have to be the man to go. Harsh as he has done well recently, but I feel he could be cannon fodder if the ball doesn't swing. Not sure we can afford him and Anderson in the same team in non-swinging conditions.

To be clear, England don't have a perfect eleven available to them and so whatever team is chosen it will have weaknesses.

I feel England's batting has shown time and again that we're not suited for a stiff chase or to properly accelerate in the closing overs when batting first. My approach or gamble would therefore be to set out to take 10 wickets in each game and play the extra bowler. Thus, Tredwell would come in for Bopara from today's team.

I'm not too worried about losing Bopara's batting as that has been pretty feeble lately. However, I readily admit that I'm not overjoyed at having Tredwell, Anderson and Finn at 9, 10, jack. A few weeks ago I had Jordan in my ''on paper'' team in place of Finn - that gave more strength to the batting but, of course, since the then Jordan has rather lost it with the ball whilst Finn has rediscovered some form. Maybe, that'll turn round again - nothing is certain or easy!

Btw, you could be right about Woakes getting the sharp end of the stick although I tend to agree with you that would appear harsh. I was never keen on his bowling (for international level) when everyone else (apart from Mike Selig) was banging on about it over the last couple of years - basically, I just considered he didn't have enough nip. However, I was reading at the week-end that he's upped his pace which might explain his increased effectiveness. I also still think he can bat although we need him to prove that.

Haddin all over us now - I think he has the psychological edge, he's barely been able to hit the ball off the square all winter until today!

A loss here is quite deflating. Proves yet again that we can't set a total and defend it. And this is our first XI against an under strength Aus.

Smith is making a case for himself as an all format captain

Good post guildford, it's hard to disagree with any of that and we could be well served to go with 5 bowlers. Any other team would have made 350+ and won convincingly today, we just can't do it.

Bopara is infuriating, he plays like a junoir player 7 or 8 years on from his debut. Time to get rid once and for all I feel.

All over. But on the plus side. We are getting better.. We did give this game away. But we were not blown away. All we needed was mogs/buttler or bop to do what Haddin did, and we would have won.

Like you said, mysti... they should have posted somewhere in between 350-400 they were going that good early on. I was surprised at the extent to which Australia reigned them in towards the end.

Even with 350+ runs on the board I still think Australia would have chased them down - even with this XI. This ground is perfect for making high scores... small boundaries and fast outfield. 304 was a stroll in the park for them really. Smith toying with the bowling as he reaches yet another ton this season. I've lost count...

I am not sure if smith could have upped his rate to a 340 plus score . He is a bell/root type.. And has done that job for aus that they did for England.

The problem was not one of our power hitters did there job when perefectly set up..

We only needed one out of the 3 to do there job.

Mysti - yeah, but ... we were able to select our best team (or what we thought was) whilst Australia had several leading players missing.

I'm not rubbishing everything about England but we are a long way behind Australia.

Are we selecting our best team......

Have you heard of KP