Aus-Ind-Eng: The Carlton Mid Triangular

First topic message reminder :

I like triangulars  that Aus hosts...there is a continuity and history with these.

and Just before the world cup...the 3 big brothers get the prime practise slot in the world cup conditions.....
it's a shame Aus found  no space for Harris and Lyon in the world cup squad...and India couldn't accommodate Vijay.( see story in next post)

to me in the triangular Aus are sure to make the finals and Ind inspite of their excellent overall record are about even with Eng...
better batting than Eng but the spinners that Ind relies so much on are not as much effective

kingraf wrote:Completely agree. Bits and pieces players are the bane of my existence, although surely Ravi is a little better than purely bits and pieces? Averages 30 with the bat, which I think is par, maybe slightly above par for a lower middle order batsman. His bowling is worth a punt as well. Only real issue is the strike rate, he doesn't score quickly enough for a genuine late smasher, but doesn't really score enough to justify slots higher up.

Hi Raf - yes, Bopara is better than ''purely bits and pieces'' but too often he fails to show it or, even when he does, it's when the pressure is off as we've effectively already lost by the time he performs.

Meanwhile, Stokes has had a good day with the ball for England Lions against South Africa A in a 50 over game. 4/22 off 6.3 overs as the hosts were all out for 172 in just under 40 overs. I hear on my grapevine that Stokes is first reserve in several scenarios should one of England's World Cup squad get injured and have to be replaced. Today's performance won't do that any harm at all.

Btw, Raf, what's your take on the current South Africa A team? I recognise a few of the names but don't know many of them properly.

It's a pretty strong side. Stiaan and Temba are the heir apparents for any spots in the Test side, and Stiaan can't be too far from a game in ODI's. David Wiese can consider himself a little unlucky to not be in the world cup squad, but age made him a tough pick. The bowling is also pretty handy. Overall I'd rate it's our best possible side for an "A" tour

I think Australian conditions I'd prefer Stokes over Bopara, he's more of a wicket taking threat with the ball and without the wickets being on the slower side I do think you can get after Ravi.

But I'd agree Ravi is better for that later slot as a batsman. Stokes imo is a higher order bat (like he is for Durham), and isn't really suited for the 7/8 role

kingraf wrote:It's a pretty strong side. Stiaan and Temba are the heir apparents for any spots in the Test side, and Stiaan can't be too far from a game in ODI's. David Wiese can consider himself a little unlucky to not be in the world cup squad, but age made him a tough pick. The bowling is also pretty handy. Overall I'd rate it's our best possible side for an "A" tour

Cheers, Raf. Looks like Stokes is also going to have to do something with the bat in this game. England 92/4 off 20 overs needing another 79. Stokes undefeated on 8. Good comeback since lunch from South Africa with Lees, Vince, Roy and Bairstow all back in the hutch.

stokes is coming in to form at the right time. and thats all that can be asked.

A bit too late for the World Cup though, mysti - unless someone does have to drop out through injury.

WHy cant we change the squad?

Is there a reason why we have to announce squads so early?

why cant they be announced the week before and have a provisional squad of more players previously

Don't put money on this but I believe we're now beyond the date that squads had to be put in and that replacements are only allowed on certified medical grounds.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/old-icc-world-twenty20/tim-gruijtens-accuses-coaches-of-cheating-after-tom-cooper-added-to-dutch-t20-squad/story-e6frf3m3-1226856835803?nk=01f3433d8350670e86a02b02d165d7f4

'Injuries' do happen...

You believe correctly. Bopara isn't going anywhere, neither is Binny or Behardien. The Bits and pieces Association are not going anywhere.

JDizzle wrote:http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/old-icc-world-twenty20/tim-gruijtens-accuses-coaches-of-cheating-after-tom-cooper-added-to-dutch-t20-squad/story-e6frf3m3-1226856835803?nk=01f3433d8350670e86a02b02d165d7f4

'Injuries' do happen...

yep the early squad selections are going to make this sort of thing happen

kingraf wrote:You believe correctly. Bopara isn't going anywhere, neither is Binny or Behardien. The Bits and pieces Association are not going anywhere.

They are bits and pieces so obviously they do not have glamorous figures,

BUT they have a role to play.....in certain tours, circumstances, weather or pitch conditions or in emerging teams.... the "neither here nor there" guys bring balance to the 11 that cannot be measured merely through stats....especially when several years have elapsed and the situational perspective is lost

--Pringle and Peter Wiley had their moments vs WI in Eng and WI respectively

--Bangar vs Eng in Eng..... and Jadeja vs Aus in Ind served Ind well.

--Larsen, Statham, Cony......NZ has always had a number of bits and pieces players some of whom won them the world cup...almost in 1992

--Greg Matthews was nothing but a bits and pieces and lasted 35 tests....and filled a slot, that of the first spinner who could bat and allowed playing 5 bowlers..... in the earliest resurgence phase of Aus under Border...including a 10-fer in the famous tied test.

He was the predecessor to the genre of allrounder that Aus has been on a lookout for since time immemorial.....but have never had.....
and their newest avataars in that genre are Watson and Mitch Marsh...who I am convinced needs his bowling to get into the side...he is also bits and pieces.

--Steve Waugh was a contemporary of Matthews.....started as an all-rounder with bowling as an essential trait.....he figured fortunately for himself he was good enough to hold his place for batting....and quickly dumped bowling....and once you do that bowling declines pretty fast ( same as Ganguly)

and a contemporary of Matthews and Steve was Simon Odonnel......also very bits and pieces but unlike Waugh could never rise to higher stature...had his moments he held the record for the fastest 50 in ODis for a while and a 5-fer in ODIs when that was a rare act.

--WI wasn't untouched by bits n pieces...they brought Carl Hopper as spinner essential for Indian spin conditions in mid /late 80s...
He wasn't a great spinner.....but could bat a bit....but not as much as you'd expect a specialist batsman when WI was still a decent side....and was a 3rd class spinner
but because of WI's desire to have a spinner among 4 to 5 seamers for 2nd innings usage sometimes.......Hooper got in the side because not only he could bring that occasional spin bit could bat enough...to be a package
played 100 tests...because he brought the perception of balance....

If I stretch my memory I could find another half dozen cases to the point in bold above in my post

Dodgy weather today, very overcast and raining on and off.

Not heavy rain but enough to cause plenty of interruptions to play. The odd wind gusts too. I must say though - it's a welcome relief from the oppressive heatwave we've been having for the last week. It has dropped about 16 deg. C overnight to around 22. (feels cooler though)

If the match is a no result, it will make the next Eng-Ind game interesting. The winner of that last round match would then go through to the final.

How long will India carry on with shilhar dhwan?

Re Bopara

Classic case where the stats mask the true story. As Guildford had said repeatedly, in a pressure situation he does not deliver. His stats are boosted by efforts in losing causes.

I can remember very few examples of him making a real difference to a result with either bat or ball.

I think he is a good T20 player but not worth it any more in ODIs.

so a wash-out gives the same end result that India would have gained through an unlikely win ( given the form of two teams) over Aus.

Now whoever wins the Ind-Eng game goes through to the finals.

Unless it's a washout or tie......then Eng go throuhg

At least we have a meaningful game V India.

Yes, a meaningful game against India. That's good for all of us watching / following it and the England team itself. Hard for anyone to get motivated for a dead rubber game.

That Free scoring, in form Murali Vijay ain't even in the 15 and Dhawan keeps playing on....makes a travesty of fair selection

This could be tight.

India 200 all out. England 44/3 off 14. Taylor and Morgan at the crease ....

What on earth are England doing today? That last wicket partnership added far too many runs. Then an appalling start to a low chase.

We absolutely need to win games like this, and we need to be in that final on Sunday

I know others have failed but they have some credit in the bank. Bopara though, pathetic player, I hope this is his last game for England other than T20s

VTR - you can comment about Bopara.

I'm still working on a line about the Bin Man delivering!

guildfordbat wrote:VTR - you can comment about Bopara ...

Arrh, you already have!

guildfordbat wrote:VTR - you can comment about Bopara.

I'm still working on a line about the Bin Man delivering!

I think I would get banned if I put my true thoughts on our Ravi!

Well you pretty much have a nice Daily Mail headline right there. What about "Bin Man makes England look rubbish"

We'll get 'em in singles, lads!

And the odd boundary...

Yeah, they just need to chip away and treat the Bin Man with some respect.

I heard something about "61 days without rain" until yesterday or the day before. Trottb will probably let us know if that's correct.

The pitch is being described as tacky... so not the usual WACA characteristics... but then we saw one nearly take off Dhoni's helmet (hit a crack surely) and another which kept very low (another part of a crack or a dead spot?). Quite a good contest for the neutral!

Is it too early to demand the return of Cook? Or should I wait till after the World Cup?

Maybe they would give Ballance another crack, raf? He's on the bench, almost recovered from his injury.

kingraf wrote:Is it too early to demand the return of Cook? Or should I wait till after the World Cup?

Well as an opposition supporter I would fully expect you to demand the reutrn of Cook as it makes your team's life easier!

The Loaded Dog wrote:Maybe they would give Ballance another crack, raf? He's on the bench, almost recovered from his injury.

He has to be worth a go over Ravi. Even I would be worth a go over Ravi!

129/5. Some nicely timed strokes from Buttler as he advances to 37 at almost a run a ball. Taylor sticking at it with 49 off 85. Looking good for England now although a wicket would immediately bring a different look on the outcome ....

Maybe, LD. I do like Ballance, very neat cricketer, and has the second highest list A average in the history of humanity, as I've been (repeatedly) told.

What I like about Ballance is he looked like he belonged in international cricket right from his debut. Ravi looks like a rabbit in the headlights most of the time and bats like a rabbit that has been run over on a country road

With that sarcastically said... 24 hundreds in 70 non international list A matches is an insane record. English cricket must have some serious pie chuckers

^ some of those were in Zimbabwe I think.

His list A, T20, and first class debuts were all in England, so I have to assume the vast majority were in England (I mean, who goes to Zimbabwe to develop their cricket)

England making a game of this at the end!

VTR wrote:England making a game of this at the end!

Doing an Australia. We are both very generous nations...

Raf - you are looking at the wrong stats. 24 FC hundreds, 6 List A hundreds for Ballance

The Loaded Dog wrote:

VTR wrote:England making a game of this at the end!

Doing an Australia. We are both very generous nations...

Assuming we make the final, get your money on a tie?

Oops!!

Not a high quality game that. But glad to have got through it.

Well played taylor and buttler.

Well done England.

We won't beat Australia in Perth, though; I bloody hate that ground, small mercy that none of England's World Cup will be played there.

Anything Is possible duty..

But i suspect we would have to bowl first..

Glad we are through. Gives us another proper match before the WC. Not sure we have learnt much from this series, but most of the team have put in some good performances.

Concerns ahead of the WC are the performances of Bopara and Broad. Ali has not batted that well but has bowled nicely. I think we might see Jordan and Ballance in the team for the final.

Remember when James Taylor couldn't make this team

Broad got two wickets today..  That's a plus. He is a confidence player. It should help him. The others look well set. I can only see him getting better.

Out batting is to inconsistent and lacks understanding when setting a total.

Today on this pitch 250 would have been ok. But last game 340 was needed and we were set for it..

We have shown to be slightly better than India in aus conditions. Not many expected that. So that's one thing in our favour.

Ballance may come in for bop.

GSC wrote:Remember when James Taylor couldn't make this team

Taylors never been a favorite of the selectors, guys like Bairstow constantly got chances