Kingspan Stadium to Host Pro12 Final

First topic message reminder :

New development for the League,


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30980843

Final is going to be annoced in advance from now on,

TBH I don't like this idea at all.

All the hosts of the final so far have been able to sell it out before hand, it rewards the team that finishes higher in the league, and what happens is say the final is Ospreys V Glasgow are all these fans expected to travel to Belfast?

Better have the higher team in the League host it, other wise I can see the final being mostly played out in with mostly neutral crowds.

HammerofThunor wrote:So they made up a little less than initially thought?

Phwew, that's alright then.

What they should have said is that ALL finals since 2001 have inlcuded at least one Irish team, not all but one.

HammerofThunor wrote:What they should have said is that ALL finals since 2001 have inlcuded at least one Irish team, not all but one.

And not made up a game that never took place.

Ospreys Rugby have declared they didn't apply for this Final, as they didn't agree with the format change, and it would be hypocritical to then apply.

From the same article:

"The tender went out to clubs around Christmas time and came down to a shortlist of two, Ulster and Glasgow. Several clubs were unable to become involved as their stadiums were booked for other events or they don’t own them. Ospreys do not own Liberty Stadium and were not contenders, a point of contention on social media. Ospreys are possible finalists as are Ulster.

“There was a lot of interest but one or two of the venues had pre-existing events on already,” added Feehan. “So Thomond Park had the Babas etc. So it was not possible to get the full vendors involved. We are delighted with the choice as it is not just one big game of rugby but the city have really bought into it too.”

You can see how the IT journo made the mistake with the line: ""In 2006-07, Cardiff Blues were beaten by Ospreys, who have won the title four times. All of the other finals have involved at least one of the Irish provinces."

If you modified it to read: "In 2006-07, Cardiff Blues were beaten (to the title) by Ospreys, who have won the title four times. All of the other finals have involved at least one of the Irish provinces."

The last round of matches in 2006-2007 included a three way battle between Cardiff, Leinster and Ospreys for the title. If Leinster won their match against Cardiff, they would have got the title. Instead Cardiff won it and went top. But the next day, Ospreys went to Borders and won, and took the title. Not a final, but a good end of season clincher.

wayne wrote:Ospreys Rugby have declared they didn't apply for this Final, as they didn't agree with the format change, and it would be hypocritical to then apply.

Then they said they couldn't afford it as like most major events the organisers demand a financial guarantee. If you ask me, it sounds like a bit of grandstanding/playing up to the fans to distract from the real reason which is to do with their not-so-great financial situation.

I don't think the province or region which bids for the Final should bear the financial risk btw. It should be footed by the league, the risk should be shared equally by all 12 members as should the profits.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/ospreys-reveal-declined-put-liberty-8527659

"They have revealed they were opposed to the decision to have a pre-arranged venue and therefore felt it would be hypocritical to put the Liberty Stadium forward as a contender.

In addition, they maintain it would not have been in their best interests to bid, given the financial guarantee required in order to host the showpiece event."

Exactly... "oh, we really oppose this. It's terrible. We're taking a moral stand!"

And by the way, we can't afford to guarantee we'll sell the tickets.

I think the parochialism of Welsh rugby crowds is going to be very damaging for them in this new world order. A Glasgow versus Ospreys final in Belfast will sell well, it will sell many tickets in advance before its even known who is playing. A Leinster vs Munster final in Swansea?

I hope for the sake of the league they bid at some point for the final.

Notch, the decision to look into the new format was taken at the beginning of the season, the decision to put it out to tender was taken in December and 2 applied, Ospreys objected BEFORE it was put out to tender, as morally they were against it. And as they couldn't be hypocritical they wouldn't put in a tender.
Please also don't put the blame for this at Jordans door the Ceo is Feehan another F.....G Irishman.

Yeah, I'm sure its a moral issue. But a moral issue sure does make for better PR as opposed to not being able to afford it potentially not selling well.

Notch wrote:Yeah, I'm sure its a moral issue. But a moral issue sure does make for better PR as opposed to not being able to afford it potentially not selling well.

How is it better PR when they both come out in the same article?

wayne wrote:

Notch wrote:Yeah, I'm sure its a moral issue. But a moral issue sure does make for better PR as opposed to not being able to afford it potentially not selling well.

How is it better PR when they both come out in the same article?

I'm just saying if the Ospreys had better finances I think they would have a different stance. I do sympathise- the financial side shouldn't be an issue. The league should take the risk, we need to encourage bids not discourage them.

Notch wrote:

wayne wrote:

Notch wrote:Yeah, I'm sure its a moral issue. But a moral issue sure does make for better PR as opposed to not being able to afford it potentially not selling well.

How is it better PR when they both come out in the same article?

I'm just saying if the Ospreys had better finances I think they would have a different stance. I do sympathise- the financial side shouldn't be an issue. The league should take the risk, we need to encourage bids not discourage them.

Notch, your clutching at straws here, there were no doubt meetings between the League management between September and December when not only the Ospreys but other Welsh Regions objected as well. The monetary angle came in AFTER December and they were morally and financially against it, so their financial predicament had NO bearing on the decision whatsoever.

I doubt that, but you are welcome to your opinion.

Let me just add, a while earlier on this topic some gave the view that even though we are top at the moment, there is no guarantee that we'll finish in the top 4 to make a play off spot, I'll go further and say as someone else did because of our financial position and the need to play lots of youngsters and our more experienced players for too many games, I'd be surprised if we did qualify in the top 4.

Notch wrote:I doubt that, but you are welcome to your opinion.

What part of that is opinion? the Summer, December, tendering process, applicants and decision are all facts.

wayne wrote:

Notch wrote:I doubt that, but you are welcome to your opinion.

What part of that is opinion? the Summer, December, tendering process, applicants and decision are all facts.

Well either you take their given reason about not bidding because of some point of principle on face value or you don't. You do. I don't. I think they are being disingenuous.

The Ospreys. Keepin' it real.

Only 4,000 of the 18,000 tickets will be allocated for the two finalists.

lolz

Chunky Norwich wrote:Only 4,000 of the 18,000 tickets will be allocated for the two finalists.

"The problem is, no-one from Wales is going to go if the Ospreys get there. AND there won't be enough tickets for them!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrxlfvI17oY

Chunky Norwich wrote:Only 4,000 of the 18,000 tickets will be allocated for the two finalists.

lolz

Chunky, it also transpires that one of the darlings of Irish Rugby also disagrees with this decision, as it takes away the incentive of going for first place in the League.

Fair play to the Ospreys, this si why they didn't bid. Can't blame them one bit:

The Ospreys didn't bid for this because they were against the proposal for a change from highest placed team has home advantage to a neutral venue as they felt that the competition was not yet at that stage.

Given their stance on the proposal, they then felt it would be hypocritical to consider making a bid to stage the final, regardless of the team’s positive start to the season as this would put the team in a position where we could lose the home final ‘advantage'.

Absolute farce.

The final should never have been put up for tender in the first place. It is a farce and shows how Irish influence in our league is more currupt than FIFA. It's the same reason why the Welsh regions always have an Irish ref when playing the Irish provinces.

LordDowlais wrote:It is a farce and shows how Irish influence in our league is more currupt than FIFA. It's the same reason why the Welsh regions always have an Irish ref when playing the Irish provinces.

Last fixture of the season:

Connacht v Ospreys

Wonder who the referee will be on a match that could possibly decide 6th place and play off placings. Will it be a referee who is employed by the same people that effectively own Connacht rugby?

Of course the Irish will dismiss this as conspiracy led claptrap.

LordDowlais wrote:The final should never have been put up for tender in the first place. It is a farce and shows how Irish influence in our league is more currupt than FIFA. It's the same reason why the Welsh regions always have an Irish ref when playing the Irish provinces.

So the Irish are no ? But when we complained in the H-Cup, you were all saying we were paranoid.

shuren34 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The final should never have been put up for tender in the first place. It is a farce and shows how Irish influence in our league is more currupt than FIFA. It's the same reason why the Welsh regions always have an Irish ref when playing the Irish provinces.

So the Irish are no ? But when we complained in the H-Cup, you were all saying we were paranoid.

Shuren, you french lied through your teeth regarding Europe, it was all about making the second tier comp more marketable for you lot, having better teams and better competition, and what happened ? You still treated it with a massive lack of respect and put 2nd or 2rd sides out.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Fair play to the Ospreys, this si why they didn't bid. Can't blame them one bit:

The Ospreys didn't bid for this because they were against the proposal for a change from highest placed team has home advantage to a neutral venue as they felt that the competition was not yet at that stage.

Given their stance on the proposal, they then felt it would be hypocritical to consider making a bid to stage the final, regardless of the team’s positive start to the season as this would put the team in a position where we could lose the home final ‘advantage'.

Absolute farce.

Why, then, did they actually vote? Why was that not hypocritical?

They've already freely admitted they couldn't afford to host it, so they wouldn't have bid even if they had agreed with the process. So givng up their right to bid hasn't made much practical difference.

But they don't disapprove of the idea so much that they were prepared to give up their right to help decide wher it should be. No, they're not going to make that meaningful sacrifice for principle.

"We're disgusted and don't want to play any part in thsi travesty of a farce!"

"So you're abstaining?"

"What? Er, no. Belfast - une point"

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:It is a farce and shows how Irish influence in our league is more currupt than FIFA. It's the same reason why the Welsh regions always have an Irish ref when playing the Irish provinces.

Last fixture of the season:

Connacht v Ospreys

Wonder who the referee will be on a  match that could possibly decide 6th place and play off placings. Will it be a referee who is employed by the same people that effectively own Connacht rugby?

Of course the Irish will dismiss this as conspiracy led claptrap.

Chunky, we'll see evidence of the bias before then, we have Leinster and Munster at home in about a month, pound to a penny we'll have gibbon or clancy or even the Irish Scot Pratterson, if it was Lacey it would be ok, ideally they would exchange with England or France for these games, but that wont happen.

Don Alfonso wrote:

Why, then, did they actually vote? Why was that not hypocritical?

They've already freely admitted they couldn't afford to host it, so they wouldn't have bid even if they had agreed with the process. So givng up their right to bid hasn't made much practical difference.

But they don't disapprove of the idea so much that they were prepared to give up their right to help decide wher it should be. No, they're not going to make that meaningful sacrifice for principle.

"We're disgusted and don't want to play any part in thsi travesty of a farce!"

"So you're abstaining?"

"What? Er, no. Belfast - une point"

I haven't seen or heard of any region voting results. Do you have these?

wayne wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:It is a farce and shows how Irish influence in our league is more currupt than FIFA. It's the same reason why the Welsh regions always have an Irish ref when playing the Irish provinces.

Last fixture of the season:

Connacht v Ospreys

Wonder who the referee will be on a  match that could possibly decide 6th place and play off placings. Will it be a referee who is employed by the same people that effectively own Connacht rugby?

Of course the Irish will dismiss this as conspiracy led claptrap.

Chunky, we'll see evidence of the bias before then, we have Leinster and Munster at home in about a month, pound to a penny we'll have gibbon or clancy or even the Irish Scot Pratterson, if it was Lacey it would be ok, ideally they would exchange with England or France for these games, but that wont happen.  

Why can't we have a Welsh referee for a change ? I remember at one point where if the Irish porvince was playing in Wales, they had an Irish ref, and if a Welsh region was playing in Ireland we had a Welsh ref. Why was that stopped I wonder ?

LordDowlais wrote:

shuren34 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:The final should never have been put up for tender in the first place. It is a farce and shows how Irish influence in our league is more currupt than FIFA. It's the same reason why the Welsh regions always have an Irish ref when playing the Irish provinces.

So the Irish are no ? But when we complained in the H-Cup, you were all saying we were paranoid.

Shuren, you french lied through your teeth regarding Europe, it was all about making the second tier comp more marketable for you lot, having better teams and better competition, and what happened ? You still treated it with a massive lack of respect and put 2nd or 2rd sides out.

The second tier competition? We (the fans maybe not the clubs) allways it was a crap competition.
And I don't think we can really change it.
Finally we think we should have less french team in it, how could you give a place to our teams coming from ProD2.
It's stupid because these weak teams will fight in top14 to avoid the relegation, and it's far more important than a "Mickey Cup".

Chunky - go on Twitter. The Pro!2 have confirmed that all parties voted, and all voted unanimously for Belfast.

wayne wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Only 4,000 of the 18,000 tickets will be allocated for the two finalists.

lolz

Chunky, it also transpires that one of the darlings of Irish Rugby also disagrees with this decision, as it takes away the incentive of going for first place in the League.

It doesn't take away the incentive though for a home semi final.

The French & English league operate on home semi finals before a final in a neutral venue, so its not without precident.

Don Alfonso wrote:Chunky - go on Twitter. The Pro!2 have confirmed that all parties voted, and all voted unanimously for Belfast.

Can you post a link to the tweet? Thanks

Sin é wrote:

wayne wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Only 4,000 of the 18,000 tickets will be allocated for the two finalists.

lolz

Chunky, it also transpires that one of the darlings of Irish Rugby also disagrees with this decision, as it takes away the incentive of going for first place in the League.

It doesn't take away the incentive though for a home semi final.  

The French & English league operate on home semi finals before a final in a neutral venue, so its not without precident.

You go for 1st to make sure of your home semi. If 1st and second are miles ahead then you go for 1st to play the 4th placed team rather than the 3rd placed team. I personally think the final should be at a neutral venue. That way neither side is favoured for the final (although clearly in England Twickenham is handy for Quins).

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Chunky - go on Twitter. The Pro!2 have confirmed that all parties voted, and all voted unanimously for Belfast.

Can you post a link to the tweet? Thanks

https://twitter.com/PRO12rugby/with_replies


Sorry it's not more exact - but scroll down to under the picture of Tommy O'Donnell.

What is interesting is that it can be read that the Unions were invited to bid serparately from the clubs?.Am I mad or is that how it reads?

Don Alfonso wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Fair play to the Ospreys, this si why they didn't bid. Can't blame them one bit:

The Ospreys didn't bid for this because they were against the proposal for a change from highest placed team has home advantage to a neutral venue as they felt that the competition was not yet at that stage.

Given their stance on the proposal, they then felt it would be hypocritical to consider making a bid to stage the final, regardless of the team’s positive start to the season as this would put the team in a position where we could lose the home final ‘advantage'.

Absolute farce.

Why, then, did they actually vote? Why was that not hypocritical?

They've already freely admitted they couldn't afford to host it, so they wouldn't have bid even if they had agreed with the process. So givng up their right to bid hasn't made much practical difference.

But they don't disapprove of the idea so much that they were prepared to give up their right to help decide wher it should be. No, they're not going to make that meaningful sacrifice for principle.

"We're disgusted and don't want to play any part in thsi travesty of a farce!"

"So you're abstaining?"

"What? Er, no. Belfast - une point"

Don Alfonso, I don't know where you get your information from, wherever it is it is crap, because of the acrimony over this decision, the OSC (Ospreys Supporters Committee) spoke to somebody at Pro 12 Yesterday, the persons name was Tom McCormack (sp), the Ospreys and every other team in the competition not governed by a Union voted against this proposal, and although they were against it, they would abide by the decision, but as they were against it, they morally wouldn't tender for it.
You do know what morals are I presume? If you do you would see we are right.
If you are interested there is a full transcript of the conversation on the Ospreys supporter Forum, but then again if you are like Notch you will not believe it as it comes from within the Ospreys organisation, and it is all lies that emanate from within our setup.

It reads to me, that not everybody voted, but those who did, voted for Belfast, so it was unanimous, but only for the one's who actually voted. Which in mind is a friggin farce. Just like I thought it was.

Don Alfonso wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Chunky - go on Twitter. The Pro!2 have confirmed that all parties voted, and all voted unanimously for Belfast.

Can you post a link to the tweet? Thanks

https://twitter.com/PRO12rugby/with_replies


Sorry it's not more exact - but scroll down to under the picture of Tommy O'Donnell.

What is interesting is that it can be read that the Unions were invited to bid serparately from the clubs?.Am I mad or is that how it reads?

All I can see is:

PRO12RUGBY ‏@PRO12rugby Jan 26

@GavinWeston69 Office based in Dublin but run by 12 clubs and 4 unions, all of whom were invited to bid. Belfast won unanimously.
0 replies 2 retweets 0 favorites
#runfatboyrun ‏@Tircoeds Jan 26

@PRO12rugby @GavinWeston69 who voted ?
0 replies 0 retweets 0 favorites
PRO12RUGBY ‏@PRO12rugby Jan 26

@Tircoeds @GavinWeston69 all voted
0 replies 1 retweet 0 favorites

That implies all "parties" voted. i.e. the Unions. Who would quite clearly vote for a big shiny Union owned stadium.

In the official pro12 release it says "all parties unanimously voted".

I can see nothing to suggest that any of the clubs voted.

Don Alfonso wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Chunky - go on Twitter. The Pro!2 have confirmed that all parties voted, and all voted unanimously for Belfast.

Can you post a link to the tweet? Thanks

https://twitter.com/PRO12rugby/with_replies


Sorry it's not more exact - but scroll down to under the picture of Tommy O'Donnell.

What is interesting is that it can be read that the Unions were invited to bid serparately from the clubs?.Am I mad or is that how it reads?

I'd imagine that would be right. All the Unions own a stadium as well (though all would probably be too big).

Don Alfonso wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Chunky - go on Twitter. The Pro!2 have confirmed that all parties voted, and all voted unanimously for Belfast.

Can you post a link to the tweet? Thanks

https://twitter.com/PRO12rugby/with_replies


Sorry it's not more exact - but scroll down to under the picture of Tommy O'Donnell.

What is interesting is that it can be read that the Unions were invited to bid serparately from the clubs?.Am I mad or is that how it reads?

That proves nothing the Unions voted and it is a Union controlled league, the clubs not Union controlled were against it

Chunky Norwich wrote:
That implies all "parties" voted. i.e. the Unions. Who would quite clearly vote for a big shiny Union owned stadium.

In the official pro12 release it says "all parties unanimously voted".

I can see nothing to suggest that any of the clubs voted.

That is such a bizarre leap of logic.

Chunky Norwich wrote:I can see nothing to suggest that any of the clubs voted.

Exactly, it was unanimous, because the ones who voted, voted for Belfast. If I was the only person to vote, and I voted for Belfast, that would make it unanimous as well FFS. It is a farce, and the Irish influence in our league is corrupt to the core.

Don Alfonso, I don't know where you get your information from, wherever it is it is crap, because of the acrimony over this decision, the OSC (Ospreys Supporters Committee) spoke to somebody at Pro 12 Yesterday, the persons name was Tom McCormack (sp), the Ospreys and every other team in the competition not governed by a Union voted against this proposal, and although they were against it, they would abide by the decision, but as they were against it, they morally wouldn't tender for it.
You do know what morals are I presume? If you do you would see we are right.
If you are interested there is a full transcript of the conversation on the Ospreys supporter Forum, but then again if you are like Notch you will not believe it as it comes from within the Ospreys organisation, and it is all lies that emanate from within our setup.  [/quote]

Yeah, I know exaclty what morals are. And mine are obviously more stringent that the Ospreys, because I wouldn't have voted at all for who SHOULD get it if I felt so opposed to the concept of it going to a "neutral" venue.

The Ospreys, having registered their poposition to the plan, then duly voted for Belfast. They obviously didn't feel that voting for an Irish stadium was an issue, if it did have to go somewhere.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:I can see nothing to suggest that any of the clubs voted.

Exactly, it was unanimous, because the ones who voted, voted for Belfast. If I was the only person to vote, and I voted for Belfast, that would make unanimous as well FFS. It is a farce, and the Irish influence in our league is corrupt to the core.

And the tweet that says "all voted"?

Don Alfonso wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:I can see nothing to suggest that any of the clubs voted.

Exactly, it was unanimous, because the ones who voted, voted for Belfast. If I was the only person to vote, and I voted for Belfast, that would make unanimous as well FFS. It is a farce, and the Irish influence in our league is corrupt to the core.

And the tweet that says "all voted"?

yes ALL the unions, not the Welsh regions.

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:I can see nothing to suggest that any of the clubs voted.

Exactly, it was unanimous, because the ones who voted, voted for Belfast. If I was the only person to vote, and I voted for Belfast, that would make it unanimous as well FFS. It is a farce, and the Irish influence in our league is corrupt to the core.

You honestly believe that don't you?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry, it's so stupid.

Or the WRU voted for Belfast, is that it?

Good ol' WRU.

Notch wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:I can see nothing to suggest that any of the clubs voted.

Exactly, it was unanimous, because the ones who voted, voted for Belfast. If I was the only person to vote, and I voted for Belfast, that would make it unanimous as well FFS. It is a farce, and the Irish influence in our league is corrupt to the core.

You honestly believe that don't you?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry, it's so stupid.

How many Welsh refs have Ulster had against the Welsh regions this season Notch ?