Kingspan Stadium to Host Pro12 Final

First topic message reminder :

New development for the League,


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30980843

Final is going to be annoced in advance from now on,

TBH I don't like this idea at all.

All the hosts of the final so far have been able to sell it out before hand, it rewards the team that finishes higher in the league, and what happens is say the final is Ospreys V Glasgow are all these fans expected to travel to Belfast?

Better have the higher team in the League host it, other wise I can see the final being mostly played out in with mostly neutral crowds.

Impossible Standards wrote: So that means that already some teams won't ever get a final at their ground.

Yes.

Less than half the teams in the competition will never host the final.

It's pathetic.

It has to be said that the Pro12's competition rules (http://www.pro12rugby.com/statzone/competition_rules.php) have not changed, including rule 3.7 which relates to the location of the final.

Without wishing to call the quality of BBC rugby journalism into question, I'll be waiting for the official announcement before I blow my gasket.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Impossible Standards wrote: So that means that already some teams won't ever get a final at their ground.

Yes.

Less than half the teams in the competition will never host the final.

It's pathetic.

But that has been the case with the rules ever since they playoffs came into being. The criteria for hosting the Final haven't changed. It always has been a minimum size of 18000 to host the Final. Always.

Impossible Standards wrote:

Size criteria, never hosted a Final before. I can tell you its an excellent venue for it regardless. Home advantage doesn't mean that much in the Final because the tickets are split 50/50 anyway.

If Ulster played at their ground in a final how would that not be advantageous for them? Tickets are split 50-50 but there's no guarantee that the away allocation would all sell out. Meaning the remaining tickets are free for anyone to purchase.

Is there a size criteria for this then? So that means that already some teams won't ever get a final at their ground. For example the Dragons ground Rodney Parade only holds 9K so I guess we are out if the cut off was 15K+. (ok so we won't ever get to a final). I would happily travel to Ulster if they topped the league and we had to play them in the final as it would be justified for their success on the field. Again I'm not having a go at Ulster here I would have the same argument if the final was at Swansea and Glasgow had come first in the league. This just doesn't sit right with me.

Yes, thats right. Ulster got a home Final in 2013 and had to hold it in Dublin- against Leinster- because our ground wasn't big enough. If thats what you are annoyed about your outrage is a little late because you never met the criteria for hosting a Final.

Notch wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Impossible Standards wrote: So that means that already some teams won't ever get a final at their ground.

Yes.

Less than half the teams in the competition will never host the final.

It's pathetic.

But that has been the case with the rules ever since they playoffs came into being. The criteria for hosting the Final haven't changed. It always has been a minimum size of 18000 to host the Final. Always.

Well if thats the case then, what would the issue be if any of the Welsh regions, if they finished top, using the MS ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Impossible Standards wrote: So that means that already some teams won't ever get a final at their ground.

Yes.

Less than half the teams in the competition will never host the final.

It's pathetic.

But that has been the case with the rules ever since they playoffs came into being. The criteria for hosting the Final haven't changed. It always has been a minimum size of 18000 to host the Final. Always.

Well if thats the case then, what would the issue be if any of the Welsh regions, if they finished top, using the MS ?

I don't think there is an issue and I don't understand why you think there is a problem with that either. There is no reason why the Millennium Stadium can't host a future final.

You seem to have Geoff saying what grounds could host confused with the Pro12s position. They haven't ever ruled other larger grounds out.

This is geared up to suit the Irish, the one season where it looks as though an Irish side might not finish top of the pile, and they change the rules, cheers for that one guys.

LordDowlais wrote:
GLove39 wrote:
What an utter slap in the face from pro12. To just move the goalposts half way through the season. furious

I know, tell us about it, every year thus far the finals have been in Ireland, the one season where it looks it might not happen, they change the rules and put the final in Ireland anyway, it stinks of shiote I can tell you.

Yes but it was held in the ground of whoever was first in the league so that's fair enough. Although one year when Ulster finished first it was still help at the RDS? Not sure what happened there.

Notch wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Impossible Standards wrote: So that means that already some teams won't ever get a final at their ground.

Yes.

Less than half the teams in the competition will never host the final.

It's pathetic.

But that has been the case with the rules ever since they playoffs came into being. The criteria for hosting the Final haven't changed. It always has been a minimum size of 18000 to host the Final. Always.

Fair dos, never knew that.

Notch wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Impossible Standards wrote: So that means that already some teams won't ever get a final at their ground.

Yes.

Less than half the teams in the competition will never host the final.

It's pathetic.

But that has been the case with the rules ever since they playoffs came into being. The criteria for hosting the Final haven't changed. It always has been a minimum size of 18000 to host the Final. Always.

Well if thats the case then, what would the issue be if any of the Welsh regions, if they finished top, using the MS ?

I don't think there is an issue and I don't understand why you think there is a problem with that either. There is no reason why the Millennium Stadium can't host a future final.

You seem to have Geoff saying what grounds could host confused with the Pro12s position. They haven't ever ruled other larger grounds out.

So wh y can't Swansea host the final this year if Ospreys finish top ?

[quote="Impossible Standards"]

LordDowlais wrote:
GLove39 wrote:
What an utter slap in the face from pro12. To just move the goalposts half way through the season. furious

I know, tell us about it, every year thus far the finals have been in Ireland, the one season where it looks it might not happen, they change the rules and put the final in Ireland anyway, it stinks of shiote I can tell you.

Yes but it was held in the ground of whoever was first in the league so that's fair enough. Although one year when Ulster finished first it was still help at the RDS? Not sure what happened there.[/quote

Like I said, it was the nearest available stadium that was big enough to host the Final.

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Impossible Standards wrote: So that means that already some teams won't ever get a final at their ground.

Yes.

Less than half the teams in the competition will never host the final.

It's pathetic.

But that has been the case with the rules ever since they playoffs came into being. The criteria for hosting the Final haven't changed. It always has been a minimum size of 18000 to host the Final. Always.

Well if thats the case then, what would the issue be if any of the Welsh regions, if they finished top, using the MS ?

I don't think there is an issue and I don't understand why you think there is a problem with that either. There is no reason why the Millennium Stadium can't host a future final.

You seem to have Geoff saying what grounds could host confused with the Pro12s position. They haven't ever ruled other larger grounds out.

So wh y can't Swansea host the final this year if Ospreys finish top ?

...are you serious?

Because they changed the rules and now it's in Belfast. Next year it will be somewhere else. Thats what this article is about.

Notch wrote:

Impossible Standards wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
GLove39 wrote:
What an utter slap in the face from pro12. To just move the goalposts half way through the season. furious

I know, tell us about it, every year thus far the finals have been in Ireland, the one season where it looks it might not happen, they change the rules and put the final in Ireland anyway, it stinks of shiote I can tell you.

Yes but it was held in the ground of whoever was first in the league so that's fair enough. Although one year when Ulster finished first it was still help at the RDS? Not sure what happened there.[/quote

Like I said, it was the nearest available stadium that was big enough to host the Final.

Yes, but it was still in Ireland wasn't it, why didn't they choose Swansea ?

[codeYes but it was held in the ground of whoever was first in the league so that's fair enough. Although one year when Ulster finished first it was still help at the RDS? Not sure what happened there.[/code]

Sorry Notch kindly informed me on that one.

It's moronic to name the ground though. This could potentially have awful effects on crowd levels at the final.

Ospreys v Glasgow in Belfast? What's the point?

Notch wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Impossible Standards wrote:
So that means that already some teams won't ever get a final at their ground.

Yes.

Less than half the teams in the competition will never host the final.

It's pathetic.

But that has been the case with the rules ever since they playoffs came into being. The criteria for hosting the Final haven't changed. It always has been a minimum size of 18000 to host the Final. Always.

Fair dos, never knew that.

Nor me. Notch how dare you ruin my rant with those facts of yours.

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:

Impossible Standards wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
GLove39 wrote:
What an utter slap in the face from pro12. To just move the goalposts half way through the season. furious

I know, tell us about it, every year thus far the finals have been in Ireland, the one season where it looks it might not happen, they change the rules and put the final in Ireland anyway, it stinks of shiote I can tell you.

Yes but it was held in the ground of whoever was first in the league so that's fair enough. Although one year when Ulster finished first it was still help at the RDS? Not sure what happened there.[/quote

Like I said, it was the nearest available stadium that was big enough to host the Final.

Yes, but it was still in Ireland wasn't it, why didn't they choose Swansea ?

Why would they choose Swansea?

Notch wrote:Because they changed the rules and now it's in Belfast. Next year it will be somewhere else. Thats what this article is about.

Yes, and that is my point, the final has NEVER been played outside of Ireland, now that it could be a possibility this season, the rules seemed to have been changed to keep the final in Ireland.

Notch wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:

Impossible Standards wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
GLove39 wrote:
What an utter slap in the face from pro12. To just move the goalposts half way through the season. furious

I know, tell us about it, every year thus far the finals have been in Ireland, the one season where it looks it might not happen, they change the rules and put the final in Ireland anyway, it stinks of shiote I can tell you.

Yes but it was held in the ground of whoever was first in the league so that's fair enough. Although one year when Ulster finished first it was still help at the RDS? Not sure what happened there.[/quote

Like I said, it was the nearest available stadium that was big enough to host the Final.

Yes, but it was still in Ireland wasn't it, why didn't they choose Swansea ?

Why would they choose Swansea?

Why would they choose Belfast this year ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:Because they changed the rules and now it's in Belfast. Next year it will be somewhere else. Thats what this article is about.

Yes, and that is my point, the final has NEVER been played outside of Ireland, now that it could be a possibility this season, the rules seemed to have been changed to keep the final in Ireland.

Exactly. Strange that.

Ulster just need to do is finish 4th and win the semi. Then they get a home final. And a nice European seeding. By finishing 4th. Awesome idea.

They'll no doubt try to switch the final to a Friday night too. Because Friday night is rugby night in Ulster.

Shameful stuff from the worst league in the world.

Notch wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Notch wrote:
Impossible Standards wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
GLove39 wrote:
What an utter slap in the face from pro12. To just move the goalposts half way through the season. furious

I know, tell us about it, every year thus far the finals have been in Ireland, the one season where it looks it might not happen, they change the rules and put the final in Ireland anyway, it stinks of shiote I can tell you.

Yes but it was held in the ground of whoever was first in the league so that's fair enough. Although one year when Ulster finished first it was still help at the RDS? Not sure what happened there.[/quote

Like I said, it was the nearest available stadium that was big enough to host the Final.

Yes, but it was still in Ireland wasn't it, why didn't they choose Swansea ?

Why would they choose Swansea?

Why would they choose Belfast this year ?

I think they should have considered Swansea or Edinburgh to at least avoid this issue. It does seem unjustifiable to not even consider other venues. And if they did then they should of explained why this years final was to be held in Ireland when Ospreys and Glasgow have been on top for most of the season.

I think it's a good idea. If you want to develop your league, the final must be a big event.
And for that the stadium as to be know several months before.

Chunky Norwich wrote:It's moronic to name the ground though. This could potentially have awful effects on crowd levels at the final.

Ospreys v Glasgow in Belfast? What's the point?

Ignoring the unfairness of it all. An Ospreys - Glasgow final (should things pan out that way) at Kingspan would be better for Glasgow, far easier to get to Belfast than Swansea.

GLove39 wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:It's moronic to name the ground though. This could potentially have awful effects on crowd levels at the final.

Ospreys v Glasgow in Belfast? What's the point?

Ignoring the unfairness of it all. An Ospreys - Glasgow final (should things pan out that way) at Kingspan would be better for Glasgow, far easier to get to Belfast than Swansea.

That's alright then.

The final should be played in a country that has not had one yet, namely any of them except Ireland, again.

The final has never been outside Ireland previous because a team outside Ireland has never been in the highest league position of the 2 finalist  - if they had been it would have been.

Why is this final in Ireland. Only 5 of the 12 grounds meet the capacity criteria and of the other 2 Murrayfield with even 15,000+ would lack atmosphere.
Swansea ground is not available that weekend as the soccer team is at home to Manchester City.

As to why the competition change has been made maybe, just maybe, it is because of the insistance that the European final is earlier which has forced the Pro12 to have the SF and Final on back to back weeks and that doesn't provide sufficient time to make arrangements for a final where the venue is only known 7 days beforehand.


So no Irish conspracy just that the only viable grounds for the final are in Ireland.
Provide viable grounds elsewhere and the finall will be held there

Announcing Belfast as the chosen host city John Feehan, CEO of PRO12 Rugby said: “Belfast is an inspiring host city and the new Kingspan Stadium is a state-of-the-art venue for the Guinness PRO12 Final. Given the development of the competition the time is right for a showcase event and we invited offers from all 12 clubs and their regions to host the Final. The tender from ‘Team Belfast' was outstanding and was unanimously agreed as the chosen venue. Belfast excelled itself as the host city for our PRO12 season launch in 2013 and their plans for the City in the lead up to and around the Final are very exciting.

There you go.

Impossible Standards wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
GLove39 wrote:
What an utter slap in the face from pro12. To just move the goalposts half way through the season. furious

I know, tell us about it, every year thus far the finals have been in Ireland, the one season where it looks it might not happen, they change the rules and put the final in Ireland anyway, it stinks of shiote I can tell you.

Yes but it was held in the ground of whoever was first in the league so that's fair enough. Although one year when Ulster finished first it was still help at the RDS? Not sure what happened there.

Our grounds couldn't hold 18,000+ at that time, and so our home final was played at the home ground of our final opponents

I'm not sure what to make of this. I think I will reserve judgement until there is some official clarification.

Notch wrote:

Announcing Belfast as the chosen host city John Feehan, CEO of PRO12 Rugby said: “Belfast is an inspiring host city and the new Kingspan Stadium is a state-of-the-art venue for the Guinness PRO12 Final. Given the development of the competition the time is right for a showcase event and we invited offers from all 12 clubs and their regions to host the Final. The tender from ‘Team Belfast' was outstanding and was unanimously agreed as the chosen venue. Belfast excelled itself as the host city for our PRO12 season launch in 2013 and their plans for the City in the lead up to and around the Final are very exciting.

There you go.

A city from Ireland should never been given the opportunity, it has been held in Ireland since the playoffs began.

"We looked at all the options and decided that the ones that weren't Irish were crap".

Shameful league.

LordDowlais wrote:

Notch wrote:

Announcing Belfast as the chosen host city John Feehan, CEO of PRO12 Rugby said: “Belfast is an inspiring host city and the new Kingspan Stadium is a state-of-the-art venue for the Guinness PRO12 Final. Given the development of the competition the time is right for a showcase event and we invited offers from all 12 clubs and their regions to host the Final. The tender from ‘Team Belfast' was outstanding and was unanimously agreed as the chosen venue. Belfast excelled itself as the host city for our PRO12 season launch in 2013 and their plans for the City in the lead up to and around the Final are very exciting.

There you go.

A city from Ireland should never been given the opportunity, it has been held in Ireland since the playoffs began.

It seems like they just chose the city that made the best bid. This will actually open up the Final to other nations more than the old system- you no longer have to have a top 2 ranked team to host the Final, and Ireland are likely to have more top 2 ranked teams than other nations. Hence there are now more opportunities to host the Final for Wales, Scotland and Italy.

What that also shows is that all the teams have known for some time so the claim it has been dumped on them mid season is false

geoff998rugby wrote:Each team gets 50% of the tickets - if fans choose not take up the tickets thats there problem. Ulster will get no tickets for this final unless we are in it and quite rightly so.
However if it is not Leinster v Munster tickets will be available because of the take up from Ospreys and Glasgow.

Italy not considered neither ground big enough.
Maybe just maybe for team with grounds not big enough non rugby grounds will be put forward but for the first year they wanted a simple guaranteed option where it will be sell out or a near sell out regardless of the participants

Ulster getting it but that is hardly Irish bias next year could be Liberty or Murrayfield.
If it is in Ireland 3 years running there would be justification of claiming bias but based on one game such a claim is plain stupid.

Don't think it wil be each team gets 50% of tickets, otherwise why bother having venue in advance and not have it at highest placed team?

Most likely it will be the Majority of tickets go on sale early for anyone to purchase, with a certain % (think European Cup is 40%) held to be released to the two finalists.

Guess Italy will be able to put forward Stadio Olimpico each year for consideration.

While I can't see any Irish bias in it, and think it would be good for Italy to host a major final, I have to admit I much preferred the orginal system.


With a bit of luck after this year it will revert back to the old system.

However I think I can see the Unions wanting to grow this to be a hugh event and have it rotated round the National stadiums in the years to come.

It's a crock of shoite, and only the Ulster fans on here are defending it, strange that, isnt it ?

Kingshu wrote:With a bit of luck after this year it will revert back to the old system.

If an Irish Province finishes top of the pile you mean ?

Notch wrote:

It seems like they just chose the city that made the best bid. This will actually open up the Final to other nations more than the old system- you no longer have to have a top 2 ranked team to host the Final, and Ireland are likely to have more top 2 ranked teams than other nations. Hence there are now more opportunities to host the Final for Wales, Scotland and Italy.

Depends on who "decides" who the best bid is doesn't it.

I'm not defending it, I don't agree with the decision to change it mid-season. It should have been announced in the off-season.

But you are being a wee bit hysterical and jumping at shadows. As if this was some big conspiracy theory- its not a conspiracy. The only conspiracy is a crazy plan to sell more tickets and market the Final better, because when the venue is known in advance they can start selling them on Monday.

Back in the real-world, I think it's pretty obvious the success of Belfast has had in hosting the Carl Frampton title fight and the Giro d'Italia made it an attractive proposition.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Notch wrote:

It seems like they just chose the city that made the best bid. This will actually open up the Final to other nations more than the old system- you no longer have to have a top 2 ranked team to host the Final, and Ireland are likely to have more top 2 ranked teams than other nations. Hence there are now more opportunities to host the Final for Wales, Scotland and Italy.

Depends on who "decides" who the best bid is doesn't it.

You mean the Celtic Rugby board of directors with two representatives from each of the four unions and an independent chairman.

Notch wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Notch wrote:

It seems like they just chose the city that made the best bid. This will actually open up the Final to other nations more than the old system- you no longer have to have a top 2 ranked team to host the Final, and Ireland are likely to have more top 2 ranked teams than other nations. Hence there are now more opportunities to host the Final for Wales, Scotland and Italy.

Depends on who "decides" who the best bid is doesn't it.

You mean the Celtic Rugby board of directors with two representatives from each of the four unions and an independent chairman.

Yes. The Union lead board.

Look Notch, you can see why people are seeing crazy conspiracy theories, lets take Ospreys this year, every time they have played Munster, Leinster, Ulster they have had an Irish ref, home and away, you can see why people would start suggesting things, then you see things like this, Ospreys fans hoping for a final in Swansea, or at the very least in Wales, but then this gets announced. It mall stinks of crap, and you can pretty it up all you like, but you must admit, it does look a little dubious, even if it is not.

Notch wrote: The only conspiracy is a crazy plan to sell more tickets

How will this sell more tickets?

Sell it to me.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Notch wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Notch wrote:

It seems like they just chose the city that made the best bid. This will actually open up the Final to other nations more than the old system- you no longer have to have a top 2 ranked team to host the Final, and Ireland are likely to have more top 2 ranked teams than other nations. Hence there are now more opportunities to host the Final for Wales, Scotland and Italy.

Depends on who "decides" who the best bid is doesn't it.

You mean the Celtic Rugby board of directors with two representatives from each of the four unions and an independent chairman.

Yes. The Union lead board.

I'm guessing the WRU, SRU and FIR delegates are all part of the conspiracy too... maybe they've all been replaced by Irish dopplegangers like in 'Invasion of the Bodysnatchers'?

Or are the WRU doing this to try and undermine the regions so they can control them?

We are through the looking glass here people.

LordDowlais wrote:Look Notch, you can see why people are seeing crazy conspiracy theories, lets take Ospreys this year, every time they have played Munster, Leinster, Ulster they have had an Irish ref, home and away, you can see why people would start suggesting things, then you see things like this, Ospreys fans hoping for a final in Swansea, or at the very least in Wales, but then this gets announced. It mall stinks of crap, and you can pretty it up all you like, but you must admit, it does look a little dubious, even if it is not.

Ireland/Ulster etc are not allowed to get criticised.

EVER.

Notch wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Notch wrote:

It seems like they just chose the city that made the best bid. This will actually open up the Final to other nations more than the old system- you no longer have to have a top 2 ranked team to host the Final, and Ireland are likely to have more top 2 ranked teams than other nations. Hence there are now more opportunities to host the Final for Wales, Scotland and Italy.

Depends on who "decides" who the best bid is doesn't it.

You mean the Celtic Rugby board of directors with two representatives from each of the four unions and an independent chairman.

Yes, the people who have to answer to the big companies sponsering the league, and try to keep them happy to keep putting big bucks in. Where is the sponsor of the Pro12 from now, I do forget ?

LordDowlais wrote:Look Notch, you can see why people are seeing crazy conspiracy theories, lets take Ospreys this year, every time they have played Munster, Leinster, Ulster they have had an Irish ref, home and away, you can see why people would start suggesting things, then you see things like this, Ospreys fans hoping for a final in Swansea, or at the very least in Wales, but then this gets announced. It mall stinks of crap, and you can pretty it up all you like, but you must admit, it does look a little dubious, even if it is not.

I've got a lot of sympathy for the Ospreys, Glasgow, Munster and Leinster fans because it should have been announced at the start of the season (Munster fans would have a longer trip than Glasgow fans btw).

But I think if people want to add 2 and 2 and get 5, they'll always find a way to do it.

Notch wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Notch wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Notch wrote:

It seems like they just chose the city that made the best bid. This will actually open up the Final to other nations more than the old system- you no longer have to have a top 2 ranked team to host the Final, and Ireland are likely to have more top 2 ranked teams than other nations. Hence there are now more opportunities to host the Final for Wales, Scotland and Italy.

Depends on who "decides" who the best bid is doesn't it.

You mean the Celtic Rugby board of directors with two representatives from each of the four unions and an independent chairman.

Yes. The Union lead board.

I'm guessing the WRU, SRU and FIR delegates are all part of the conspiracy too... maybe they've all been replaced by Irish dopplegangers like in 'Invasion of the Bodysnatchers'?  

Or are the WRU doing this to try and undermine the regions so they can control them?

We are through the looking glass here people.

If you know even a morsel about Welsh rugby, you'll know that the Union has a history of doing what is best for itself, and cares not a jot about the Welsh regions beyond the bare minimum.

LordDowlais wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Used the MS for what? A game organised a few weeks in advance? Or a game that was organised months in advance?

A few weeks. I remember, becuase I went there, I think it was for the highest attended Pro12 game.

Which game was that?

I think it was in 2005/2006 when they played Leinster, they were looking for a bumper crowd but never got it, it was still a record at the time though.

But when was it organised? It was announced two weeks before the game but that doesn't mean it was organised then. If Blues left until two weeks before the game to organise a replacement venue they needed to be shot. It was probably months in the planning.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Look Notch, you can see why people are seeing crazy conspiracy theories, lets take Ospreys this year, every time they have played Munster, Leinster, Ulster they have had an Irish ref, home and away, you can see why people would start suggesting things, then you see things like this, Ospreys fans hoping for a final in Swansea, or at the very least in Wales, but then this gets announced. It mall stinks of crap, and you can pretty it up all you like, but you must admit, it does look a little dubious, even if it is not.

Ireland/Ulster etc are not allowed to get criticised.

EVER.

You understand what a debate is? Putting forward one side of a debate is not the same as banning the other side. We are all free to express opinions and we are all free to challenge those opinions. Having your opinion challenged is not the same as having it banned.

I don't like it. Top team should have home advantage. That shouldn't change. Otherwsie why fight to get to the top? It's a nonsense.

Of course, when Ulster did top the table, before the stadium was redeveloped and was big enough, we had to play our "home" final in Dublin. Against Leinster. Which we narrowly lost. I might check back to see just how incandescent with rage LordDowlais was on our behalf. I'm sure he was disgusted.

So you'll have to excuse Ulster fans if we don't feel that everything has consistently been set up for our benefit.

Having said that - the most important point is my first.

Oh, and I will buy tickets the minute they go on sale.