6N Round 1: France v Scotland, 7 February

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FRANCE v SCOTLAND
Saturday 7 February 2015
KO 17:00 (GMT)/18:00 (local)
Stade de France, Paris

Live on BBC1.

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU)
Touch Judge 1: Glen Jackson (NZR)
Touch Judge 2: Mike Fraser (NZR)
TMO: George Ayoub (ARU)

A. Teams:

1. France

15 Scott Spedding (Bayonne)
14 Yoann Huget (Toulouse)
13 Mathieu Bastareaud (Toulon)
12 Wesley Fofana (Clermont)
11 Teddy Thomas (Racing Metro)
10 Camille Lopez (Clermont)
09 Rory Kockott (Castres)

01 Alexandre Menini (Toulon)
02 Guilhem Guirado (Toulon)
03 Rabah Slimani (Stade Francais)
04 Pascal Papé (Stade Francais)
05 Yoann Maestri (Toulouse)
06 Thierry Dusautoir (c) (Toulouse)
07 Bernard Le Roux (Racing Metro)
08 Damien Chouly (Clermont )

16 Benjamin Kayser (Clermont)
17 Uini Atonio (La Rochelle)
18 Eddy Ben Arous (Racing Metro)
19 Romain Taofifenua (Toulon)
20 Loann Goujon (La Rochelle)
21 Morgan Parra (Clermont)
22 Rémi Talès (Castres)
23 Rémi Lamerat (Castres)

2. Scotland

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors)
14 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors)
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors)
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors)
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby)
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors)
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester)

1 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby)
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby)
3 Euan Murray (Glasgow Warriors)
4 Richie Gray (Castres)
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors)
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors)
7 Blair Cowan (London Irish)
8 Johnnie Beattie (Castres)

16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors)
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors)
18 Geoff Cross (London Irish)
19 Jim Hamilton (Saracens)
20 Alasdair Strokosch (USA Perpignan)
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby)
22 Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors)
23 Dougie Fife (Edinburgh Rugby)

B. Tournament Form (last 3 games):

1. France

15/3/14 - France 20 - 22 Ireland

8/3/14 - Scotland 17 - 19 France

21/2/14 - Wales 27 - 6 France

2. Scotland

15/3/14 - Wales 51 - 3 Scotland

8/3/14 - Scotland 17 - 19 France

22/2/14 - Italy 20 - 21 Scotland

C. Head to Head:

87 Played 87
50 Wins 34
34 Losses 50
3 Draws 3
153 Tries 132
78 Conversions 70
119 Penalties 127
28 Drop Goals 15
1,228 Points 1,049

Am glad this is over. Huge lack of accuracy and inspiration from France almost cost them this game. Great to see Hogg back to hid best. Bennet is some serious  improvement to the likes of NDL and Lamont

TJ wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:I would bring Hamilton now to disrupt the maul

LOL. all you do is complain about the ref pinging glasgow and scotland players infringing. then you say scotland need a specialist maul infringer on...

Aye - but he is our penalty magnet therefore can do no wrong.  Any way he is called big Jim

have always wondered - who, and why, is Schlong?

Nachos Jones wrote:Hard luck Scotland but massive, massive improvement. Going to France and winning is no mean feat and Scotland put France under loads of pressure. Keeping France tryless and scoring one of your own in Paris is impressive.

I think that England, Wales and Ireland will sit up and take a lot more notice of Scotland now.

Shame you lost but well done at the same time.

I'm sick of frikkin heroic failures. I'm sick of "nearly" I am so effing sick of " well done you might have frikkin won it"

I WANT TO WIN SOME EFFING GAMES

Its not fuddy good enough

Its Poopie being scottish *runs of into a corner to sulk with a bottle of Irn Bru, some smack and a deep fried pizza*

Visser is the only player that i'm aware of who actually slow down going into contact! Glasgow oups sorry Scotland would have had a better chance of winning with DTH instead.

quinsforever wrote:

TJ wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:I would bring Hamilton now to disrupt the maul

LOL. all you do is complain about the ref pinging glasgow and scotland players infringing. then you say scotland need a specialist maul infringer on...

Aye - but he is our penalty magnet therefore can do no wrong.  Any way he is called big Jim

have always wondered - who, and why, is Schlong?

Schlong is sean lamont. We suspect he is well hung

TJ wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Hard luck Scotland but massive, massive improvement. Going to France and winning is no mean feat and Scotland put France under loads of pressure. Keeping France tryless and scoring one of your own in Paris is impressive.

I think that England, Wales and Ireland will sit up and take a lot more notice of Scotland now.

Shame you lost but well done at the same time.

I'm sick of frikkin heroic failures.  I'm sick of "nearly"  I am so effing sick of " well done you might have frikkin won it"

I WANT TO WIN SOME EFFING GAMES

Its not fuddy good enough

Its Poopie being scottish  *runs of into a corner to sulk with a bottle of Irn Bru, some smack and a deep fried pizza*

+1

Likewise. Can already see the dogged in defeat, brave, gallant losers etc headlines.
Sick to death of it.

whocares wrote:Am glad this is over. Huge lack of accuracy and inspiration from France almost cost them this game. Great to see Hogg back to hid best. Bennet is some serious  improvement to the likes of NDL and Lamont

Wasn't overly impressed by your man mountain Atonio, dropped the scrum twice and was in trouble against Gordon Reid who isn't the best scrummager himself. Expected better from what i've read.

Anyway congrats on the win and good luck for the rest of the tournament.

Well done to France. a good win. and a well deserved win.

Scotland at times looked very dangerous. it is just so FRUSTRATING, that they all ways seem to come so close and just cannot finish off the game.

Maybe next time. Maybe.

All hail Scotland by finishing within 7 of France completing a nice 8.5-1 6N treble for me - €85 the richer now.

Thought there were loads of pluses for Scotland and I don't think anybody is going to fancy going to Murrayfield if they continue to play like that. I thought France were dire and even though Ireland were no great shakes against Italy I'm confident about next week's game v France especially with Sexton and Healy back.

Think England and Scotland are the only teams who can take many positives from this weekend.

Sorry Nachbos - I called 'em squint when watching but none landed beyond where the french guys were lined up. as squint as they could be without being given. No beef with it at all

VinceWLB wrote:

whocares wrote:Am glad this is over. Huge lack of accuracy and inspiration from France almost cost them this game. Great to see Hogg back to hid best. Bennet is some serious  improvement to the likes of NDL and Lamont

Wasn't overly impressed by your man mountain Atonio, dropped the scrum twice and was in trouble against Gordon Reid who isn't the best scrummager himself. Expected better from what i've read.

Anyway congrats on the win and good luck for the rest of the tournament.

Thanks Vince. Agree that Atonio was suspect on the scrum. He's meant to add power in the loose where he wasnt great as well. Our best player was probably Le Roux which says it all really.
On the basis of today's performance I dont expect more than 2 more wins.

brennomac wrote:All hail Scotland by finishing within 7 of France completing a nice 8.5-1 6N treble for me - €85 the richer now.

Thought there were loads of pluses for Scotland and I don't think anybody is going to fancy going to Murrayfield if they continue to play like that. I thought France were dire and even though Ireland were no great shakes against Italy I'm confident about next week's game v France especially with Sexton and Healy back.

Think England and Scotland are the only teams who can take many positives from this weekend.

I refer the right honourable gentleman to the answer I gave before

Do refs get reviewed after games ?

Owens absolutely can't ref the lineouts or the breakdown

France threw squint 50pc of the time and spent almost every ruck off their feet and flopped over the ball . Wtf was Owens looking at ?
Did anyone else notice this ?

alive555 wrote:Do refs get reviewed after games ?

Owens absolutely can't ref the lineouts or the breakdown

France threw squint 50pc of the time and spent almost every ruck off their feet and flopped over the ball . Wtf was Owens looking at ?
Did anyone else notice this ?

NBope - the lineouts were squint but within the guidance. No issue with breakdown either.

TJ wrote:

alive555 wrote:Do refs get reviewed after games ?

Owens absolutely can't ref the lineouts or the breakdown

France threw squint 50pc of the time and spent almost every ruck off their feet and flopped over the ball . Wtf was Owens looking at ?
Did anyone else notice this ?

NBope - the lineouts were squint but within the guidance.  No issue with breakdown either.  

So if u throw directly down your side of the line that's within guidance ? If so I'm learning

I thought the rules were down the middle ?

All those Glasgow players on the pitch and none of them scored any points....

Really mixed feelings about that.

Hell of a lot of good things and I always felt that we had the potential to break the line and score right up until the last minute. If I was a French supporter, I would be terrified by how average that looked. Ireland and England will tear them a new one if that's the best that they're going to offer at home.

Good Things
- Hogg was back to his best. I don't know who won mom, but I would have given it to him. He kicked out on the full a couple of times but it would be churlish to complain when he was the most dangerous back on the field
- Bennett looked like a class act and has to retain his place for the next game
- I thought that Russell was very good and more importantly, seemed to kick on after setbacks (like the bombed drop goal) without letting them affect him. His defence was ferocious from someone who must have been giving away stones to the guys he was bringing down.
- Our tight five was very good and the alleged French scrum dominance didn't seem to materialize.
- Harley looked like the badass he is at international level. Made a number of brutal hits, especially the one where Guilhem Guirado ran into him and bounced off the floor. Harley is so very important to us.
- Murray, Ford and Dickinson were rock solid and am not worried about any other team in the scrums now. We have a decent unit and the Gray brothers clearly bring enormous power.
- Our defence was superb and forced French errors. Not to concede in Paris (especially during a sin binning) is something that will resurface later as a thing to be very proud of
- Cowan looked like a superb pain in the arse at the breakdown. He and Harley made a mess of it when they needed to.

Bad Things
- Beattie was really not good at all - I lost count of the number of mistakes he made in the first half. I remain to be convinced that he can do better. We cannot get Strauss in there fast enough and David Denton will be looking at that knowing he can offer more. Not impressed at all.
- Laidlaw dropped a hell of a lot of balls - too many for a 9. The missed conversion was also crucial - a tricky kick but you can't help but wonder if Sam Clyne would have made it.
- I'm sorry but Visser was really, really not very good. I am starting to re-think my criticisms of Maitland after looking at that. Bad tackles (one attempted shoulder charge), that bombed reception which nearly cost his side a try (he would have been a hero if he made it, but he didn't, so he's a putz) and dropped/wayward passes
- Fife tried hard but he is not clearly international class in the same way that Russell, Bennett, Hogg and Dunbar clearly are. He was very, very lucky not to be yellow carded for throwing that ball away to stop France taking a quick line out
- I didn't really have commentary in the pub that I was in, so I don't know what happened to Tommy Seymour. What did happen to him?
- Peter Horne is too bloody small for international rugby. That's it. He is. Stop picking him.

Other Poopie
- I thought that Nigel Owens missed quite a few incidences of France being clearly offside and did miss a number of squinty throws.
- By the same token I thought that Euan Murray's pass for the try was forward and Fife could have been carded for petulantly throwing the ball away, so swings and roundabouts
- As predicted, the bench was fine but did not look special. Big JIm was clearly brought on to disrupt the French driving maul and I thought that he played well. Fraser Brown hit his jumpers (I think) and Strokosch looked bald and menacing well enough although I would loved to have had Denton or Watson to bring on instead.
- If we can replicate that form and we have no injuries, we will beat Wales next week. I am confident of that

alive555 wrote:

TJ wrote:

alive555 wrote:Do refs get reviewed after games ?

Owens absolutely can't ref the lineouts or the breakdown

France threw squint 50pc of the time and spent almost every ruck off their feet and flopped over the ball . Wtf was Owens looking at ?
Did anyone else notice this ?

NBope - the lineouts were squint but within the guidance.  No issue with breakdown either.  

So if u throw directly down your side of the line that's within guidance ? If so I'm learning

I thought the rules were down the middle ?

the law is "straight". the guidance is within the 1m gap. french throws were just within. Its like a speedo in you car. It should be accurate. 10% error is allowed. Most cars are 8% optimistic ( except BMWs - they are accurate) Its a good job Germans don't play rugby

Euan Murray's pass was forward. Hands backward but ball forward. I called it that way at the time

How can you have a forward pass with hand backwards?

I agree with you GC on every point except Visser, who I think you've been overly critical of.

Beattie was useless and we sorely need Denton back. Once Harley is fully fit we won't need Strokosch on the bench so hopefully we can get Watson involved as well.

I think Tonks should replace Horne on the bench, and Scott should bench as well. Fife is fine as far as he goes but Seymour and Maitland are both better.

have to admit in recent years i havent been that interested in scotland's 6N matches. but having watched glasgow this season a few times, and seen Scotland almost take the ABs i really enjoy the way you play, and think that big scalps are going to come. A couple of your backs are a bit too small against a team like France, but i think it's more a matter of belief.

Agree that no-one is going to enjoy an easy ride at Murrayfield this year. Is there still a nematode problem?

TJ wrote:Euan Murray's pass was forward. Hands backward but ball forward.  I called it that way at the time

You forward pass rule book is about as reliable as your lineout one

Nope, we've got some fake grass now. It's actually a really good surface at Murrayfield.

seems like these semi-plastic pitches are the way forwards.

i remember scrumming down at hooker in the 80s sometimes wondering if i was going to drown in the puddles on my school pitch.

I hope that Scotland can win next week. There's no reason at all to fear Wales, you have the nous to break down good defences now, home crowd... will be interesting for sure!

We can beat Wales if keep our discipline. We gave some cheap points today. We owe them one after last year!

alive555 wrote:

TJ wrote:Euan Murray's pass was forward. Hands backward but ball forward.  I called it that way at the time

You forward pass rule book is about as reliable as your lineout one

the ball travelled forward - no doubt at all. the IRB guidance is to look at the direction of the hands. I don't like it. but its very clear what the IRB say

How can it be so - the guys are running forward. Expolained here better than I can. I would have ruled the Murray pass forward

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg

funnyExiledScot wrote:We can beat Wales if keep our discipline. We gave some cheap points today. We owe them one after last year!

We CAn beat any team on the planet. we have nearly beaten them all. Its time we actually did so

Bit afraid of the Welsh backlash to be honest but that Scotland team has it in them next week.

Sad loss but credit to France, they pinned us well back in the 2nd half and we didn't take our chances. Very even teams but French pack made the difference in my opinion

Hope Dunbar will be fit next week, i don't want to see Horne taking on Roberts going at full speed!

TJ wrote:

alive555 wrote:

TJ wrote:Euan Murray's pass was forward. Hands backward but ball forward.  I called it that way at the time

You forward pass rule book is about as reliable as your lineout one

the ball travelled forward - no doubt at all.  the IRB guidance is to look at the direction of the hands.  I don't like it. but its very clear what the IRB say

How can it be so - the guys are running forward.  Expolained here better than I can.  I would have ruled the Murray pass forward

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg

Completely opposite . A forward pass is determined by the direction of the hands not whether the ball moves forward (relative to the ground ) after the pass has been made.

In other words it does not matter if the ball moves forward as long as the direction of the hands is backwards.

As u said murrays hands were backwards even though ball moved forward

Clear cut NOT a forward pass !!!

VinceWLB wrote:Hope Dunbar will be fit next week, i don't want to see Horne taking on Roberts going at full speed!

I guess north will be out , but we could well be without Dunbar and Seymour , which would be a bit of a disaster

alive555 wrote:

TJ wrote:

alive555 wrote:

TJ wrote:Euan Murray's pass was forward. Hands backward but ball forward.  I called it that way at the time

You forward pass rule book is about as reliable as your lineout one

the ball travelled forward - no doubt at all.  the IRB guidance is to look at the direction of the hands.  I don't like it. but its very clear what the IRB say

How can it be so - the guys are running forward.  Expolained here better than I can.  I would have ruled the Murray pass forward

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg

Completely opposite . A forward pass is determined by the direction of the hands not whether the ball moves forward (relative to the ground ) after the pass has been made.

In other words it does not matter if the ball moves forward as long as the direction of the hands is backwards.

As u said murrays hands were backwards even though ball moved forward

Clear cut NOT a forward pass !!!

The laws say - direction of the ball. The guidance says - judge it on the direction of the hands. go look on the IRB site. I would have ruled it foreword but it wasn't by the IRB guidance anyway Oor Nigel said it was OK so we got the only try. 'France didn't look like scoring a try

Keeping France scoreless is actually a massive feat because guys like Thomas and Fofana did not play badly - our defence was just very good.

I hope Gatland does not listen to the criticism and turns out the same old team yet again. If he does, then we will should take them. A formulaic backline with some players quite badly out of form - we have nothing to be afraid of. I wonder if that Scotland performance will get a reaction in the English/Welsh press? Anything's possible I suppose...

Incidentally, the forward pass rule is very clear - 'how do the hands move?', is the only question. It has been well established that if you are running straight and you throw what is clearly a backwards pass, your momentum will always show de facto that the ball has moved forward in real time. Therefore the only thing that can be judged is whether the ball moves backwards out of the hands. Credit to Murray for actually making the pass.

What happened to Seymour by the way? I missed that one. Fife did well as a sub, but we missed maitland and Seymour

bsando wrote:What happened to Seymour by the way? I missed that one. Fife did well as a sub, but we missed maitland and Seymour

Hip injury very early on, not sure how it happened

Fife didn't look comfortable, but it is only his second cap...

England fan here.

Disappointing result, but all the exciting rugby was by Scotland even if only in patches. I thought you kept France's attack pretty much stifled for the whole game and it was just a bit of power and experience that won it for them. Wales and Ireland will be tough but I think you've got a shot at the top half with 3 home games. Just need to play with a bit more composure.

Cheers Thomh.

I might start feeling better tomorrow. Right now, I'm watching Dirty Dancing with my sister.

Don't judge me, guys.

IanBru wrote:Cheers Thomh.

I might start feeling better tomorrow. Right now, I'm watching Dirty Dancing with my sister.

Don't judge me, guys.

Apparently nobody puts Bru and his stones in a corner.

GC, we just got to that bit.

Very good.

Just noticed under 20s got humped 47-6

If Scottish rugby is going to be competitive u would expect to see improvement's in the under 20s

Still not happening and its really no way near good enough. Dodson this is your job if u can't do it resign !

thomh wrote:England fan here.

Disappointing result, but all the exciting rugby was by Scotland even if only in patches. I thought you kept France's attack pretty much stifled for the whole game and it was just a bit of power and experience that won it for them. Wales and Ireland will be tough but I think you've got a shot at the top half with 3 home games. Just need to play with a bit more composure.

I was thinking much the same thing.  For some reason, Scotland give a sense of being a team which is finally going to keep improving (although it would be nice if that was suspended for the England match).  Good, tough defense.  Just seem to need one more nifty runner.  Hogg was terrific with ball in hand.  This is great to see.

doctor_grey wrote:

thomh wrote:England fan here.

Disappointing result, but all the exciting rugby was by Scotland even if only in patches. I thought you kept France's attack pretty much stifled for the whole game and it was just a bit of power and experience that won it for them. Wales and Ireland will be tough but I think you've got a shot at the top half with 3 home games. Just need to play with a bit more composure.

I was thinking much the same thing.  For some reason, Scotland give a sense of being a team which is finally going to keep improving (although it would be nice if that was suspended for the England match).  Good, tough defense.  Just seem to need one more nifty runner.  Hogg was terrific with ball in hand.  This is great to see.

Seymour is our other nifty runner.

This should remain the Scotland post-mortem/victim support group thread, but when you feel brave enough to interact with your fellow sheep worriers: https://www.606v2.com/t57622-6n-round-2-scotland-v-wales-15-february

Well the key messages from Cotter and Laidlaw are bemoaning the amount of penalties we gave away, and acknowledging that we just didn't get the bounce of the ball during the game.

If add ball skills in contact and handling to that too - we gave away the ball far too easily in the first half especially.

Only on a phone just now but very dissapointed.

Still got the brain fart issues ruining good position

Vissser and beattie terrible and should be dropped as soon as possible.

If I see beattie run in contact and drop the ball one more time..

If I see Vissser tackle through shoulder charges one more time (lucky not to be yellow carded)


Hogg. Good game. Russel. Good game. Pack. Good Scrum.

I don't care much what the rulebook says, bottom line is France got away with crooked throws all 1st half and another ref would have pinged them. It got better when Kayser came on for Girado though.

In the heat of the moment i was probably a bit unfair on Nigel Owens as he was pretty consistent if favouring a little the home team like every ref would do.