6N Round 2: Scotland v Wales, 15 February

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SCOTLAND v WALES
Sunday 15 February 2015
KO 15:00 (GMT)
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BBC1

Referee: Glen Jackson (NZR)
AR1: George Clancy (IRFU)
AR2: Dudley Phillips (IRFU)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

A. Teams:

1. SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors);
14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors);
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors);
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors);
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby);
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors);
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester);

1 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby);
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby);
3 Geoff Cross (London Irish);
4 Richie Gray (Castres);
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors);
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors),
7 Blair Cowan (London Irish);
8 Johnnie Beattie (Castres);

16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors);
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors);
18 Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors);
19 Jim Hamilton (Saracens);
20 Alasdair Strokosch (USA Perpignan);
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby);
22 Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby);
23 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby);

2. WALES

15 Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon)
14 Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues)
13 Jonathan Davies (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
12 Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro)
11 Liam Williams (Scarlets)
10 Dan Biggar (Ospreys)
09 Rhys Webb (Ospreys)

01 Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues)
02 Richard Hibbard (Gloucester)
03 Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys)
04 Jake Ball (Scarlets)
05 Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys)
06 Dan Lydiate (Ospreys)
07 Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, CAPT)
08 Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)

16 Scott Baldwin (Ospreys)
17 Paul James (Bath Rugby)
18 Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues)
19 Luke Charteris (Racing Metro)
20 Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)
21 Mike Phillips (Racing Metro)
22 Rhys Priestland (Scarlets)
23 Scott Williams (Scarlets)

B. Form (last 4 games):

1. SCOTLAND

07/02/15 - France 15 - 8 Scotland

22/11/14 - Scotland 37 - 12 Tonga

15/11/14 - Scotland 16 - 24 New Zealand

08/11/14 - Scotland 41 - 31 Argentina

2. WALES

06/02/15 - Wales 16 - 21 England

29/11/14 - Wales 12 - 6 South Africa

22/11/14 - Wales 16 - 34 New Zealand

15/11/14  - Wales 17 - 13 Fiji

C. Head to Head:

120 Played 120

48 Wins 69

69 Losses 48

3 Draws 3

180 Tries 227

80 Conversions 112

130 Penalties 142

30 Drop Goals 25

1,204 Points 1,578

Do you think we'll see Ian Evans again now he's playing lower level rugby? Not sure Gatland will be happy to pick from the English championship, even if Evans is playing really well. It's hard to judge form for international rugby in a league a step down from the top I suppose.

Surely Wales are favourites even if perhaps misfiring a bit. Scotlands record is like it is for a reason. This is a real test for Scotland - a defeat would be back to "false dawns" If Scotland want to be taken seriously they need to win - and win well. Wales by 5 is what I would bet tho

Griff wrote:Do you think we'll see Ian Evans again now he's playing lower level rugby? Not sure Gatland will be happy to pick from the English championship, even if Evans is playing really well. It's hard to judge form for international rugby in a league a step down from the top I suppose.

No I don't think we will but if Bristol go up and he's playing well then there's always that 'exceptional circumstances' clause that Gatland has.

Half an hour ago I was talking to an old welsh mate of mine. He was saying that he is expecting a (BIG BACK LASH) Tomorrow from Wales. He is expecting Wales to win by a minimum of of 40 points.

I told him he was joking. but he said NO he is not.

Is any one else expecting a big score from Wales tomorrow? Just asking.

majesticimperialman wrote:Half an hour ago I was talking to an old welsh mate of mine. He was saying that he is expecting a (BIG BACK LASH) Tomorrow from Wales. He is expecting Wales to win by a minimum of of 40 points.

I told him he was joking. but he said NO he is not.

Is any one else expecting a big score from Wales tomorrow? Just asking.

Not expecting no, I am just hoping for a win.

Not expecting a win. I expect a reaction, but I think we will fall short. I just feel there is too many off form players still in the Welsh team. Would love to see Tipuric and Scott Williams come off the bench and I might feel better about it, but I worry so much about our pack, that it probably won't matter if Gatland uses his bench properly or not.

majesticimperialman wrote:Half an hour ago I was talking to an old welsh mate of mine. He was saying that he is expecting a (BIG BACK LASH) Tomorrow from Wales. He is expecting Wales to win by a minimum of of 40 points.

I told him he was joking. but he said NO he is not.

Is any one else expecting a big score from Wales tomorrow? Just asking.

Oh grow up for gooodness sakes

TJ wrote:Surely Wales are favourites even if perhaps misfiring a bit.  Scotlands record is like it is for a reason.  This is a real test for Scotland - a defeat would be back to "false dawns"  If Scotland want to be taken seriously they need to win - and win well.  Wales by 5 is what I would bet tho

Scotland have coached talent now, coupled with a talented coach.. scotland by 15 minimum

RDSguru wrote:

TJ wrote:Surely Wales are favourites even if perhaps misfiring a bit.  Scotlands record is like it is for a reason.  This is a real test for Scotland - a defeat would be back to "false dawns"  If Scotland want to be taken seriously they need to win - and win well.  Wales by 5 is what I would bet tho

Scotland have coached talent now, coupled with a talented coach.. scotland by 15 minimum

Maybe a bit much. By 8-10 I reckon.

Well it matters not a jot the result today...

SRU wrote:@Scotlandteam: FT: Scotland 19-14 Wales, fantastic determination there. Scotland progress to the @USASevensRugby Bowl SF.

That's the series won! 3-1

Some harsh realities in the press this morning:

Welsh rugby is in an entirely different orbit to the Scottish game. In the last decade Wales have won three Grand Slams and four Championships. They were one yellow card away from an appearance in the previous World Cup final and they have genuine designs on this one. In that time Scotland have won precisely hee-haw.

The average age of the two starting teams is oddly exactly the same (27.1 years) but there the similarities cease. The Welsh squad boasts 932 caps compared to Scotland’s 591 and the visitors are stuffed full of British and Irish Test Lions. Ten Welshmen started the Lions’ last gig in Sydney, eight of them appear in today’s squad.

Totally. All this nonsense from Sean Edwards that Scotland are the ones under pressure is a pile of old scrotum. Wales are correctly expected to win.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Some harsh realities in the press this morning:

Welsh rugby is in an entirely different orbit to the Scottish game. In the last decade Wales have won three Grand Slams and four Championships. They were one yellow card away from an appearance in the previous World Cup final and they have genuine designs on this one. In that time Scotland have won precisely hee-haw.

The average age of the two starting teams is oddly exactly the same (27.1 years) but there the similarities cease. The Welsh squad boasts 932 caps compared to Scotland’s 591 and the visitors are stuffed full of British and Irish Test Lions. Ten Welshmen started the Lions’ last gig in Sydney, eight of them appear in today’s squad.

Are these so called (LIONS) in the welsh squad, the same (LIONS) that played against England?

Not sure I buy the 'wales expected to win' thing. Form has to be taken into account. We've got none and Scotland have some.

Also, that news article states that we have a load of B&I Lions in the team, but as we know from the tour and the posts on this message board there were huge elements of bias from Gats. There should/could have been 5 or so scots in the Lions and less Welsh players in reality there is not much diffrence (had another coach other than the Welsh one been in charge). Therefore, Lions numbers is perhaps not a good measure of how things stand currently.

Griff wrote:Any Welsh fans (Scottish fans welcome to comment too!) prefer to see Paul James on the tighthead (out of positon) rather than Jarvis? I have always thought James was our best scrummaging loosehead but he didn't look great when he came on for Gethin the other day. However, he's been asked to play TH for us in the past too. How has he gone? Did he embarrass himself or did he manage to hold his own? Parity is all I ask for tomorrow and I worry that Jarvis is not up to this level. Would James be better, even out of position???

I would prefer almost anyone to Jarvis at tight head, he is a lot like Richard Fussell when he plays for the Ospreys, you panic when he is in the team because he is so poor. I remember a season or so ago Jarvis started for us early season he pretty much lost us every game because he was constantly being penalised at the scrum, Bath totally crushed him in a home loss it was embarrasing. Sadly at this point he got a call up for Wales in an emergency and came on against Argentina and actually did ok, since then everyone has rated him highly based off that one game. He's an accident waiting to happen to be honest, and playing him is going to cost Wales dearly one day. The Ospreys getting rid of Joe Rees and Adam Jones and keeping Jarvis has probably been their biggest mistake of the past few seasons, were getting smashed in the scrums every week as a result of this decision making. The tight heads only real job is to anchor the scrum anything above that is a bonus.

12 games played, 11 wins for Wales and some by big scores, Presonally I think Scotland always make the same mistake they spend the first half trying to bully us which always fails, the second half they try to actually throw it about and play rugby which they rarely do.
In fact the only time Scotland beat Wales was when Gareth Jenkins was coach.

15 Mar 2014 Wales 51 - 3 Scotland
09 Mar 2013 Scotland 18 - 28 Wales
12 Feb 2012 Wales 27 - 13 Scotland
12 Feb 2011 Scotland 6 - 24 Wales
13 Feb 2010 Wales 31 - 24 Scotland
08 Feb 2009 Scotland 13 - 26 Wales
09 Feb 2008 Wales 30 - 15 Scotland
10 Feb 2007 Scotland 21 - 9 Wales
12 Feb 2006 Wales 28 - 18 Scotland
13 Mar 2005 Scotland 22 - 46 Wales
14 Feb 2004 Wales 23 - 10 Scotland
30 Aug 2003 Wales 23 - 9 Scotland

Not to be all doom and gloom, I am expecting a big win from Wales.

George Carlin wrote:Totally. All this nonsense from Sean Edwards that Scotland are the ones under pressure is a pile of old scrotum. Wales are correctly expected to win.

Sean Edwards seems to have learned bad habits from Gatland.

Wales are a good team and their coaches are clearly good coaches. Their coaches habit of mouthing off before every game is however extremely irritating. None of the other countries find it necessary. Why do the Wales coaches?

Where is this article by Edwards? Can anyone point me to it please? The only article I can find is from Neil Jenkins who says Scotland will be under self imposed pressure as they'll be keen to win all their home games, just as Wales are too. Am I missing something juicy elsewhere?

It's terribly difficult to call. This is a very different Scotland animal from the one in previous years that I've often found myself wishing should be humanely euthanased.

It's been said quite a lot on the Scotland threads - in previous years, we've always really known that we were sailing into this tournament on hope rather than expectation which could be verified by anything solid. We've always had some sort of problem in the team and deep down, if we're being honest, we've known about it - soft front row, talent-free halfbacks, a midfield with no creativity, a lightweight back 3, a wobbly set piece, a lack of power in the tight 5, specialists playing out of position and/or the two Scottish clubs having no good league form to speak of.

That's not the case any more - we have a complete team, a gameplan that clearly scores tries and a coach the players will play for. The house is not built on straw foundations any more.

But until this side have a crack at all NH quality opposition, then how good are they, really? For a Scotland team they're the best in at least a decade. But in comparison to the opposition??? And that's the problem - nobody can say for sure. No idea how the bookies arrive at their odds, really. What I will say is that in my opinion we've been 8th/9th in the world before, but with a much, much weaker squad than this one.

Of course, seasoned Scotland fans know what this really means. If we lose, it's going to hurt a lot more than usual as we are largely out of excuses. We have some injuries, but no worse than anyone else (and much better than most in a few cases).

Oh god. I've just freaked myself out again.

I feel sick.

Has anyone seen Moneyball? This clip illustrates how I'm feeling about today's match:
https://youtu.be/cUa5UgcWlcw

Exiledinborders wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Totally. All this nonsense from Sean Edwards that Scotland are the ones under pressure is a pile of old scrotum. Wales are correctly expected to win.

Sean Edwards seems to have learned bad habits from Gatland.

Wales are a good team and their coaches are clearly good coaches (bar Howley and McBryde). Their coaches habit of mouthing off before every game is however extremely irritating. None of the other countries find it necessary. Why do the Wales coaches?

Fixed that for you

someone here was looking for access to the game(s) ?

looks like i have access from iplayer available worldwide

cheese

pm for details

Exiledinborders wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Totally. All this nonsense from Sean Edwards that Scotland are the ones under pressure is a pile of old scrotum. Wales are correctly expected to win.

Sean Edwards seems to have learned bad habits from Gatland.

Wales are a good team and their coaches are clearly good coaches. Their coaches habit of mouthing off before every game is however extremely irritating. None of the other countries find it necessary. Why do the Wales coaches?

Doesn't seem much mouthing off at all. Storm in a teacup???!

Wales assistant coach Neil Jenkins says the pressure will be on Scotland when the two teams meet at Murrayfield on Sunday.
Both sides lost their Six Nations openers, with Wales defeated by England and Scotland edged out in France.
But having been underdogs in Paris, Jenkins thinks Scotland will have to cope with the weight of expectation that comes with home advantage.
"I'm sure they'll put pressure on themselves, it's a home game," he said.
"I think they'll want to win their home games - we do. We lost last week so we need to win on the road. It's as simple as that."
Scotland were praised for a gallant display in their 15-8 defeat by France last weekend.
That came after an encouraging autumn in which they beat Tonga and Argentina and threatened to cause an upset against New Zealand.
But they have lost their last seven meetings against Wales, who will be aiming to make amends for an opening loss to England, which Jenkins believes has added to the pressure the visitors will face at Murrayfield.
"It certainly focuses the mind and I think we've seen that in training this week," he said.
"After the disappointment of last week, we realise we have to pick it up a gear or two and we've done that this week.

"I'm looking forward to the game and the guys are certainly raring to go."
Wales have made two changes from their defeat against England, with wing George North making way for Liam Williams and tight-head prop Aaron Jarvis replacing Samson Lee, who is ruled out with concussion.
Scotland head coach Vern Cotter says they will target the Welsh scrum in Lee's absence, but Jenkins is confident Jarvis can fill the void.
"Aaron's a very talented rugby player - he wouldn't be here otherwise," added Jenkins.
"Samson has been excellent for us and he's played pretty well so obviously he's a loss but it's a great opportunity for Aaron to take over and stake his own claim."

Anyway, good luck everyone! I'm off to the pub shortly. Here's to a good game. I'd like to see an expansive game with offloads galore, centres making clean straight breaks, wingers being put into space through the clever creation of overlaps, scrums completing first time EVERY TIME!, wiley flankers turning over the ball against all odds, props getting a rumble on and charging 20 metres up the pitch knocking feeble backs out the way like skittles, scrum halfs sniping round the fringes and taking tap 'n go's wherever possible. If I get all of that then a loss for Wales will not be so bad. But here's hoping for a hard fought entertaining Wales win!

Cymru am byth!

I do wonder why so many Welsh fans are so pessimistic, in our last 2 games Wales have beaten South Africa and lost to England and people think the world has come to an end.

Compare that to Scotland who always seem to try and play inferior opposition like Canada, USA, Argentina and Tonga to try and get wins. You actually have to go back to the 24th of February 2013 for their last win against one of the "big 8" countries, which was a 12-8 win against Ireland.

In all honesty it's probably better to tour places like South Africa and lose games in the last minute, than to tour countries like Canada and the USA and get easy wins. At least Wales test themselves and try to improve. Wales did what Scotland are doing now all through the 90's and deluded themselves that they were a serious playing nation. It's been 2 years since Scotland beat anyone of note, so it's time for them to step up and beat Wales today.

Shifty,

For me it's the nature of the loss against England, we were shocking in that 2nd half and seemed to have no idea how to deal with England or change our style.

Add to that the Lee injury and who the replacements are plus how our lineout fell apart and the fact the Gray boys are opposite us there is why I am totally unsure about how it will go.

Alive - 'twas me. Have PMd you. Thanks fella

Griff wrote:

Doesn't seem much mouthing off at all. Storm in a teacup???!

What reaction did you expect though? Wales coaches and players have never been allowed to say that sort of stuff, it's only coaches and players outside of Wales that are the exception.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Shifty,

For me it's the nature of the loss against England, we were shocking in that 2nd half and seemed to have no idea how to deal with England or change our style.

Add to that the Lee injury and who the replacements are plus how our line out fell apart and the fact the Gray boys are opposite us there is why I am totally unsure about how it will go.

Yes but that's happened a few times over the years, I remember we were 30-3 down at home to Ireland a couple of years ago and only because we couldn't beat up the Irish, everyone knows what Wales will do and how they are going to play. If the opposition is big and physical enough Wales can be stopped, but the REAL question is can Scotland be so physical and aggressive that they can do what teams like England, Ireland and New Zealand do to Wales?

Can Scotland be solid in defense, can Scotland keep their discpline and not panic, and will Scotland have the self confidence not to throw the game away if they do find themselves ahead in the game towards the end?

Granted Scotland pushed France close, but it seems to me that the French looked like they were in 2nd gear for the entire game against Scotland, the French looked very average and can do much, much better when they can be bothered. What we're talking about is an improving Scotland, but who have they actually beaten? Tonga, USA, and Canada.

Before Scotland start talking about progress and improvement and being back as a top nation, they at least need to beat two of Ireland, Wales, France and England in a single 6 nations before anyone can take the statement seriously. If at the end of the 6 nations they have beaten Italy and lost to everyone else then nothing at all has changed.

Shifty I do believe that performance wise they have improved, for example, they can now score tries! That will be the difference this year, in previous years they've hardly threatened our line. I think today will be different.

takethelongroad wrote:Alive - 'twas me.  Have PMd you.  Thanks fella

check mail

Shifty wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Shifty,

For me it's the nature of the loss against England, we were shocking in that 2nd half and seemed to have no idea how to deal with England or change our style.

Add to that the Lee injury and who the replacements are plus how our line out fell apart and the fact the Gray boys are opposite us there is why I am totally unsure about how it will go.

Yes but that's happened a few times over the years, I remember we were 30-3 down at home to Ireland a couple of years ago and only because we couldn't beat up the Irish, everyone knows what Wales will do and how they are going to play.  If the opposition is big and physical enough Wales can be stopped, but the REAL question is can Scotland be so physical and aggressive that they can do what teams like England, Ireland and New Zealand do to Wales?

Can Scotland be solid in defense, can Scotland keep their discpline and not panic, and will Scotland have the self confidence not to throw the game away if they do find themselves ahead in the game towards the end?  

Granted Scotland pushed France close, but it seems to me that the French looked like they were in 2nd gear for the entire game against Scotland, the French looked very average and can do much, much better when they can be bothered.  What we're talking about is an improving Scotland, but who have they actually beaten?  Tonga, USA, and Canada.  

Before Scotland start talking about progress and improvement and being back as a top nation, they at least need to beat two of Ireland, Wales, France and England in a single 6 nations before anyone can take the statement seriously.  If at the end of the 6 nations they have beaten Italy and lost to everyone else then nothing at all has changed.

We simply can't keep on starting tournaments slowly though then hoping the guys redeem themselves in the next game, we have never had the ability to play bad yet still be able to ground out a win.

Looking at the two teams on paper there's only one likely winner. Think Scotland would have a better chance if Wales had beaten England last week, but there's some real talent in the Scots side (though a bit raw). My sympathies to the Scots supporters suffering the painful onset of hope...

The games not won on paper though, when you looked at the two teams on paper last Friday Wales were way ahead in terms of caps and experience but that counted for nothing and unless we hit the ground running today and get every aspect of our game right it will count for nothing again today.

Shifty wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Shifty,

For me it's the nature of the loss against England, we were shocking in that 2nd half and seemed to have no idea how to deal with England or change our style.

Add to that the Lee injury and who the replacements are plus how our line out fell apart and the fact the Gray boys are opposite us there is why I am totally unsure about how it will go.

Yes but that's happened a few times over the years, I remember we were 30-3 down at home to Ireland a couple of years ago and only because we couldn't beat up the Irish, everyone knows what Wales will do and how they are going to play.  If the opposition is big and physical enough Wales can be stopped, but the REAL question is can Scotland be so physical and aggressive that they can do what teams like England, Ireland and New Zealand do to Wales?

Can Scotland be solid in defense, can Scotland keep their discpline and not panic, and will Scotland have the self confidence not to throw the game away if they do find themselves ahead in the game towards the end?  

Granted Scotland pushed France close, but it seems to me that the French looked like they were in 2nd gear for the entire game against Scotland, the French looked very average and can do much, much better when they can be bothered.  What we're talking about is an improving Scotland, but who have they actually beaten?  Tonga, USA, and Canada.  

Before Scotland start talking about progress and improvement and being back as a top nation, they at least need to beat two of Ireland, Wales, France and England in a single 6 nations before anyone can take the statement seriously.  If at the end of the 6 nations they have beaten Italy and lost to everyone else then nothing at all has changed.

Nice to see confidence, Shifty.

'Mon the lads! Time to smash the taffs, been too long and 2010 still hurts.

We all know what Gatlandball is, time to front up and get that win

teh_Dingmeister wrote:'Mon the lads! Time to smash the taffs, been too long and 2010 still hurts.

We all know what Gatlandball is, time to front up and get that win

well he's just said he wants to play some running rugby unlike the english

bedfordwelsh wrote:The games not won on paper though, when you looked at the two teams on paper last Friday Wales were way ahead in terms of caps and experience but that counted for nothing and unless we hit the ground running today and get every aspect of our game right it will count for nothing again today.

Agree mostly. I think your edge in caps means that if the game is close going into the last 20 you are better placed to deal with that - as you did a couple of years ago in Cardiff when Scotland led going into the last few minutes. But Scotland - especially at home - DO have some talent and a real chance. Wales most likely to win though, imo.

I think if Scotland do win, it'll be on the back of a great scrummaging and lineout performance, in both of which Wales looked a bit vulnerable to me.

Nice to know that the Welsh don't have to worry about a weakened scrum, what with the Scottish scrum being Poopie and stuff. Where is that head scratching icon

So nervous! Come on Scotland!

'mon the lads.


Choo Choo

Is Jenkins known for his turnovers?

Think Hoggy might have just redeemed himself after last year. Magic.

This is why The Saint has been calling for Cuthbert to be dropped. He is so off form.

HOGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!! Great turnover from Finn!

Hoggy!

its all been Wales and then Scotland score. I have a feeling this is going to be one of those games.

Visser actually made a tackle there???!