6N Round 2: Scotland v Wales, 15 February

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SCOTLAND v WALES
Sunday 15 February 2015
KO 15:00 (GMT)
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BBC1

Referee: Glen Jackson (NZR)
AR1: George Clancy (IRFU)
AR2: Dudley Phillips (IRFU)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

A. Teams:

1. SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors);
14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors);
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors);
12 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors);
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby);
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors);
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN (Gloucester);

1 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby);
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby);
3 Geoff Cross (London Irish);
4 Richie Gray (Castres);
5 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors);
6 Rob Harley (Glasgow Warriors),
7 Blair Cowan (London Irish);
8 Johnnie Beattie (Castres);

16 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors);
17 Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors);
18 Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors);
19 Jim Hamilton (Saracens);
20 Alasdair Strokosch (USA Perpignan);
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh Rugby);
22 Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby);
23 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby);

2. WALES

15 Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon)
14 Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues)
13 Jonathan Davies (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
12 Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro)
11 Liam Williams (Scarlets)
10 Dan Biggar (Ospreys)
09 Rhys Webb (Ospreys)

01 Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues)
02 Richard Hibbard (Gloucester)
03 Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys)
04 Jake Ball (Scarlets)
05 Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys)
06 Dan Lydiate (Ospreys)
07 Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, CAPT)
08 Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)

16 Scott Baldwin (Ospreys)
17 Paul James (Bath Rugby)
18 Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues)
19 Luke Charteris (Racing Metro)
20 Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)
21 Mike Phillips (Racing Metro)
22 Rhys Priestland (Scarlets)
23 Scott Williams (Scarlets)

B. Form (last 4 games):

1. SCOTLAND

07/02/15 - France 15 - 8 Scotland

22/11/14 - Scotland 37 - 12 Tonga

15/11/14 - Scotland 16 - 24 New Zealand

08/11/14 - Scotland 41 - 31 Argentina

2. WALES

06/02/15 - Wales 16 - 21 England

29/11/14 - Wales 12 - 6 South Africa

22/11/14 - Wales 16 - 34 New Zealand

15/11/14  - Wales 17 - 13 Fiji

C. Head to Head:

120 Played 120

48 Wins 69

69 Losses 48

3 Draws 3

180 Tries 227

80 Conversions 112

130 Penalties 142

30 Drop Goals 25

1,204 Points 1,578

LondonTiger wrote:To be fair only just come on this thread. On other ones we have welsh fans demanding the coaches and entire team be sacked as they are the worst team in the 6Ns and TJ screaming that Scotland will win the championship.

I think the reallity is somewhere in the middle ground of this exaggerated post. Scotland (winning their home games) have a chance of having their most successful campaign in our 6N history. We have a quality player pool and an astute coach playing a simple but effective brand of rugby. From what I have seen so far, I see absolutely no reason why Scotland can't win all their home games.

Wales - One Directional
Italy - Turgid
Ireland - Looked poor for long periods against Italy but I expect them to improve every game.

Wales' tactics are predictable and they don't seem to have anything else to offer in attack apart from catapulting loose forwards, Roberts, Cuthbert and North into the fringes of rucks. All the while players with guile and intitative seem to be ignored by the Welsh coaching staff.

I'm not going to demand Gatland and his staff be sacked. However the truth remains that Gatlands style of play have come up wanting in recent matches and he has a responsibility to explore other options, or at least have the ability to use his bench to change the angle of attack.

London tiger - just point out where I have said that?

I have exaggerated a smidge for effect - but you did suggest anyone thinking Scotland will not win next week was being stupid.

For me I have yet to see anything to suggest that in most games Scotland will not be plucky losers. Win at the weekend and that will change.

Who knows, they might improve from a plucky performance to one that is both plucky and encouraging?

Being slightly more serious it is hard to see Scotland doing much more than token moments of good stuff whilst being steamrollered by Gatlandball. It is a rock paper scissors thing, with Scotland being the scissors becoming blunt, on the brutal but ponderous Welsh rock. (with the Welsh coaches using the opportunity to tell everyone that everything is fine and England was just a blip). I'd really like to hope for more, but will believe it when I see it.

LondonTiger wrote:I have exaggerated a smidge for effect - but you did suggest anyone thinking Scotland will not win next week was being stupid.

Care to copy and paste the post? 'cos thats not what I said at all. I said scotland should be expecting to win at least 3 games, and that this is the best scotland team I have seen for a long time. But its time for the players to show it.

You're expecting 3 wins. Italy will be one but you really expect to beat 2 out of England, Wales and Ireland?

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're expecting 3 wins. Italy will be one but you really expect to beat 2 out of England, Wales and Ireland?

Yes - 'cos anything else would be settling for third best. If I was a welsh, english or Irish fan I would be expecting to win every game

Hmm, I personally don't think it's likely from a Scottish point of view. Hell even as an England fan I don't expect to beat ireland in Ireland though I think we have a good chance.

123456789 wrote:Is it really likely that Gatland, who's notoriously stubborn, is likely to make many changes this close to the World Cup? I also think you're overestimating your problems you've lost one game, admittedly to a horrendous English team at home. Also the last time these two teams played without a card in the game was 2004, so we can expect a sin-binning or red-card to have an impact.

From a Scottish perspective, I think Beattie and Laidlaw ought to be looked at as they were the weak links in the Scotland team although both will be retained as the alternatives are either injured or have been left out. If Dunbar's injured we have to hope for a return from Scott or we are fecked, the same with Seymour. If we defend like we did against the French then we should be able to cope with the Welsh as, unless they pick Liam Williams, their attack was very linear and predictable. If Beattie doesn't pick up then Faletau will have a great time but I'm not too worried because he has the ability to match Faletau when he's up for it. I'm also expecting a big game from Hogg given how well he played yesterday and last year's debacle. The Grays will hopefully prove too athletic for Jake Ball although the Welsh back row is a lot more powerful than ours.
I'd go for:

1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Cross
4.  Gray
5. Gray
6. Harley
7. Cowan
8. Beattie
9. SHC - it will be Laidlaw but I've never been impressed by him he's slow, small and takes too long to pass
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Grant
17. Brown
18. Welsh
19. Hamilton
20. Watson
21. Laidlaw
22. Scott
23. Visser/ Lamont if Maitland's not fit

Hardly horrendus. Individually, the English players are in form and some of the best in their positions in Europe at the moment. Okay, plenty wouldn't be first choice but that just shows how good the English strength in depth is. The big potential for downfall was that although great players individually, there was very little experience in terms of player combinations and holistically as a team. Wales did not exploit this. Can you imagine what England would be like if their 1st choice 23 was available and had been playing together to get some kind of continuity?

Wales havent become a bad team overnight. But, their one dimensional style was exposed on Friday. As others have said - sometimes it works for them, sometimes it doesn't. But it needs sorting out. I can see this much improved Scottish team winning at home if Wales don't come up with a Plan B.

Maybe not likely but you have to aim high. 3 wins is a realistic aim. 5 is not for us. Anything less than 3 wins is a failure again and not good enough seeing as we have no excuses any more ( apart from we keep breaking our few decent centres)

Just quibbling over wording then TJ. I certainly think you should be targeting 3 wins but it's going to be tough.

I don't think you can blame fans for saying that they are aiming to win 3 games.

That's a comment about what you hope is going to happen and if this tournament has taught us anything, it's that is is fairly unpredictable. Have all sides apart from England lost to Italy now?

My brother 'hopes' to marry Rebecca Hall. The fact that she's a Hollywood actress presumably married to some hedge fund manager called Giles does not change his hope, although he accepts that the practical realities of the situation somewhat suggest it may not happen.

I think that it's a bit of a stretch for posters to suggest that they feel insulted by this. It's feasible if Scotland plays well.

If Wales continue to play like they played in the second half against England, they will lose all of their games in this 6N. They just seemed to lose all enthusiasm, maybe they were tired from the beasting they got in training?

Changes are likely: The backs were all poor but behind a pack that was soundly beaten that can be expected. Up front, the problem is who else to pick? Jenkins and Hibbard were very poor in the set pieces. James could start, I can't see Evans starting, maybe on the bench? With Owen not yet match fit and there is not much competition for Hibbard. Lee scrumaged OK but didn't look match fit, he hasn't played for a months so should be sharper against Scotland. Alan Wyn and Ball are the best locks but are similar players, so Charteris could start with Ball on the bench. Other than injuries, I can't see any other changes, but hopefully they will be give a kick up the backside before the Murrayfield test.

There's a difference between aim and expect. I'm just being a pedant George.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just quibbling over wording then TJ. I certainly think you should be targeting 3 wins but it's going to be tough.

Yup - semantic pedant you

lostinwales wrote:Who knows, they might improve from a plucky performance to one that is both plucky and encouraging?

Being slightly more serious it is hard to see Scotland doing much more than token moments of good stuff whilst being steamrollered by Gatlandball. It is a rock paper scissors thing, with Scotland being the scissors becoming blunt, on the brutal but ponderous Welsh rock. (with the Welsh coaches using the opportunity to tell everyone that everything is fine and England was just a blip). I'd really like to hope for more, but will believe it when I see it.

Never a truer word spoken. On paper for a few years Scotland have "had the beating of the Welsh" on paper and to an extent based on club form and performance.

However I would not be surprised to see us bash away for 80 minutes and get naught in return. I would be hugely disappointed though.

Strange as it sounds I think Scotland have the flair and guile to unlock Wales, however it all hinges on our centres and wings being fit and available for selection because once you are past our 1st XV the cupboard again looks typically bare.

What England showed was that the Welsh scrum, if we didn't already know it is in trouble. Samson Lee is a good, promising tight head but he doesn't, yet, bring dominance to the scrum in the way Jones did before the engagement rules changed. Jenkins inexorable decline as a scummager continues apace and if you add in to the mix a misfiring lineout then it is fairly easy to see why Wales ran out of steam on Friday night. These issues in the tight, combined with Lydiate's continued underwhelming performances should be giving Gatland sleepless nights.
A real shame for Scotland the Rev Murray makes himself unavailable for this Sunday match as the front row went really well against a powerful French scrum. If Dunbar, Seymour or both aren't fit either then it will make the task of defeating Wales all the harder. Also Beattie needs to get to France ( quite literally) but there is no other fit 8 available unless Cotter wanted to move the all action Kelly Brown one slot over, he has played there for Scotland before, old kellybrows is a better 8 than a 7 ( Scott Johnson take note!) any day of the week, oh hang on he isn't good enough to make it in the Scotland squad!!!!

No 7&1/2 wrote:There's a difference between aim and expect. I'm just being a pedant George.

I'm a lawyer so I already have my 3 year old reading this every night:

I have been working with adhesives this morning so forgive this post for being a bit "out there".

A scottish pack of:

Dickinson Ford Cross
Toolis R. Gray
Harley J. Gray and Cowan

I think is a better option than Beattie carrying the ball into contact, knocking it on and getting himself binned.

For the record I hate playing people out of position and recalling Barclay and Brown would be my first move. However since this is unlikley we need to do something else.

sensisball wrote:What England showed was that the Welsh scrum, if we didn't already know it is in trouble. Samson Lee is a good, promising tight head but he doesn't, yet, bring dominance to the scrum in the way Jones did before the engagement rules changed. Jenkins inexorable decline as a scummager continues apace and if you add in to the mix a misfiring lineout then it is fairly easy to see why Wales ran out of steam on Friday night. These issues in the tight, combined with Lydiate's continued underwhelming performances should be giving Gatland sleepless nights.
A real shame for Scotland the Rev Murray makes himself unavailable for this Sunday match as the front row went really well against a powerful French scrum. If Dunbar, Seymour or both aren't fit either then it will make the task of defeating Wales all the harder. Also Beattie needs to get to France ( quite literally) but there is no other fit 8 available unless Cotter wanted to move the all action Kelly Brown one slot over, he has played there for Scotland before, old kellybrows is a better 8 than a 7 ( Scott Johnson take note!) any day of the week, oh hang on he isn't good enough to make it in the Scotland squad!!!!

I suspect that Hibbard is also a factor in the Welsh scrum which in the Autumn improved whenever Hibbard went off and only looked really powerful against South Africa when Hibbard was not playing. We know Lee looks very powerful with a strong hooker and I suspect Jenkins will also scrumage stronger.

I'm not sure what all the commotion is about here.

Surely no one can begrudge Scottish fans trying to find some optimism for this championship, especially since we finally seem to have some backs that can produce moments of brilliance at this level.

However, we're pretty much all saying the same thing - we have been here before, and we've failed before.  We haven't beaten Wales in 8 years.  We also have a bit of an injury crisis on our hands, and although our first XV is now very competitive, some of our reserves are distinctly second rate. It is also very early days for this team, with some incredibly inexperienced players in it.  The exciting thing is though, these inexperienced players are the ones generating all the excitement!

So yes we can beat Wales, yes it is probably unlikely, but it will be a pretty miserable existence if we didn't try to find optimism from somewhere!

Just noticed that Guscott has Dickinson, Ford and Ickle Jonny in his 6N Team Of The Week. Faletau and Lee also make it.
However, the hilarious thing is that with the exception of Rob Kearney every back is English.
So nine of the side would be English, there would be no French and just one Irishman!
I want a job as a BBC "expert". In the words of Yosser Hughes, "I can do that. I can talk shoite. Gizza job. Go on I can do that."

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I have been working with adhesives this morning so forgive this post for being a bit "out there".

A scottish pack of:

Dickinson Ford Cross
Toolis R. Gray
Harley J. Gray and Cowan

I think is a better option than Beattie carrying the ball into contact, knocking it on and getting himself binned.

For the record I hate playing people out of position and recalling Barclay and Brown would be my first move. However since this is unlikley we need to do something else.

I had a similar thought last night. Would a mobile and athletic second row not do a better job at 8 than Beattie? Possibly, but on the grounds that Cotter has only just cured Scotland of picking players out of position, I'd stick with Beattie, making it clear to him that the Wales game will be his last for Scotland if he doesn't meet the required standard.

If Cotter won't consider Ali Hogg, is Vernon another possibility? Or perhaps Cowan moving to 8 and Watson at 7??

We really are unlucky to have Denton, Ashe and Wilson all out of action.

We certainly should not put a 2nd row in the back row - wash your mouth out with soap!

That is the cardinal sin of international selection, and the kind of thing we have been bemoaning for years!

Unless KB or Hogg get's called up, which isn't going to happen, the only option we have is Cowan to 8 and Watson/Blake at 7. That would leave us seriously lacking oomph in the back row, and would put a lot of empahsis on Ford and the Gray's to do the carrying.

So unfortunately I think we're stuck with Beattie for now.

RDW_Scotland wrote:We certainly should not put a 2nd row in the back row - wash your mouth out with soap!

That is the cardinal sin of international selection, and the kind of thing we have been bemoaning for years!

Unless KB or Hogg get's called up, which isn't going to happen, the only option we have is Cowan to 8 and Watson/Blake at 7.  That would leave us seriously lacking oomph in the back row, and would put a lot of empahsis on Ford and the Gray's to do the carrying.

So unfortunately I think we're stuck with Beattie for now.

True, but I'm not sure it would be any worse than the weekend. Watson, albeit small, is actually a very decent ball carrier. He's a bit like Tom Youngs in that he gets low and drives hard. He always makes good yards for Edinburgh, and Cowan isn't bad either.

I would stick with Beattie for this one game, but if he's plays anything like as badly again we should bin him immediately.

Sean Lamont for number 8 anyone??

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I have been working with adhesives this morning so forgive this post for being a bit "out there".

A scottish pack of:

Dickinson Ford Cross
Toolis R. Gray
Harley J. Gray and Cowan

I think is a better option than Beattie carrying the ball into contact, knocking it on and getting himself binned.

For the record I hate playing people out of position and recalling Barclay and Brown would be my first move. However since this is unlikley we need to do something else.

I had a similar thought last night. Would a mobile and athletic second row not do a better job at 8 than Beattie? Possibly, but on the grounds that Cotter has only just cured Scotland of picking players out of position, I'd stick with Beattie, making it clear to him that the Wales game will be his last for Scotland if he doesn't meet the required standard.

If Cotter won't consider Ali Hogg, is Vernon another possibility? Or perhaps Cowan moving to 8 and Watson at 7??

We really are unlucky to have Denton, Ashe and Wilson all out of action.

Strangely I was thinking about what to do at 8 earlier as well, suggests Beattie didn’t have a great game, if we’re all at it.

Not sure I would move Johnny to be honest, together the grays perform really well and I wouldn’t want to potentially weaken one part of the team to try and strengthen somewhere else.

Brown would be the best option, then Vernon.  Not sure Cowan has the carrying ability to play at 8.  He’s more suited to a 7 type of role and I think he would struggle at 8.

If we’re up for moving players about though, would Lamont do a job at 8?  Just to stress this would be waaaayyy down the list of options for me, but most of the others involve calling people into the squad and that seems unlikely to happen.

Edit: Seems FES got there before me with the Lamont to 8 suggestion

On a side note, you've got to love the IRB rankings - our loss to France (who are ahead of us in the rankings) means that Argentina have overtaken us into 8th spot, even though we beat them in the AIs and they didn't even play at the weekend!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Parity in the Scrum against France in Paris is quite remarkable for a Scotland team these days, we shouldn't ignore that. Also shutting the French out is also something we haven't been able to do for a very long time.

I checked this last night - it seems that 15 points conceded is our best record against the French since 1996, and it was the first time we've kept them try-less since 1992.

Put another way, the last time we shut out the Frenchies, this was no.1 in the singles charts:

That was before Jonny Gray, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne, Finn Russell, Mark Bennett & Stuart Hogg were born

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I have been working with adhesives this morning so forgive this post for being a bit "out there".

This picture of Radge at his desk was taken a short time ago:

According to BBC stats, Cowan made most turnovers (3) and Hogg the most meters (97) whilst Wales made the most missed tackles (21).. When it comes to this Sunday however, two teams desperate for a first win, the more successful team playing away, the most improved team playing at home, it feels like anything could happen.. How many yellows and reds are we expecting this time round?

Iain Morrison of the Scotsman had this to say about France vs Scotland..

"Blair Cowan, who had been so effective in his last outing against Tonga, was overwhelmed by a tsunami of red shirts who simply blitzed him off the ball. He won one important turnover from Mathieu Bastareaud but it is difficult remember him doing very much else."

Bit Harsh! I think he made one error in a line out otherwise he had very good game and in my opinion was one of the key players in the Scottish pack! He and many other Scottish players got turned over but it was a very physical game with a lot of intensity so it's expected. Also his stats seem to be wrong.

The one thing that annoyed me (which has happened so often before) is when a Scotland player goes into contact with the ball and the support delayed hitting the ruck. It was all too easy for the French.

However, it's been a long time where I've been genuinely disappointed that we didn't beat France in Paris.

Onwards and upwards and I fancy us to nick it against Wales.

bsando wrote:According to BBC stats, Cowan made most turnovers (3) and Hogg the most meters (97) whilst Wales made the most missed tackles (21).. When it comes to this Sunday however, two teams desperate for a first win, the more successful team playing away, the most improved team playing at home, it feels  like anything could happen.. How many yellows and reds are we expecting this time round?

Iain Morrison of the Scotsman had this to say about France vs Scotland..

"Blair Cowan, who had been so effective in his last outing against Tonga, was overwhelmed by a tsunami of red shirts who simply blitzed him off the ball. He won one important turnover from Mathieu Bastareaud but it is difficult remember him doing very much else."

Bit Harsh! I think he made one error in a line out otherwise he had very good game and in my opinion was one of the key players in the Scottish pack! He and many other Scottish players got turned over but it was a very physical game with a lot of intensity so it's expected. Also his stats seem to be wrong.

Cowan is obviously another player that Morrison doesn't personally like for whatever reason (Kilted Kiwi?) but I think most people would agree Cowan has been a good addition to the Scotland team.

That is really harsh on Cowan. I thought he was the best performer in the back row on the day!

funnyExiledScot wrote:That is really harsh on Cowan. I thought he was the best performer in the back row on the day!

I agree entirely.

Cowan made himself a proper nuisance. Can't really understand those comments.

Anyone else think Morrison, Guscott, Telegraph etc, watch rugby through 4 layers of Google translate? I mean, what they come out with, it just doesn't make sense!

Morrison: Cowan had the top amount of turnovers in the round (was our best back-rower, arguably)

Guscott: Has Henshaw in his team of the week, yet Bennett made a try-saving tackle and did incredible work to beat Fofana, and Kearney who, I'm sorry, but was nowhere near as creative as Mike Brown nor Hogg.

The Telegraph: Has Luke Mclean in their best XV from the weekend (?) and Henshaw and May in their WORLD XV! They must have forgotten about RWC winners Smith, Nonu, SBW & Giteau as well as Savea, North, Jane, Folau,...

Guscott doesn't watch rugby. That much has been obvious for some time.

Jimpy wrote:

123456789 wrote:Is it really likely that Gatland, who's notoriously stubborn, is likely to make many changes this close to the World Cup? I also think you're overestimating your problems you've lost one game, admittedly to a horrendous English team at home. Also the last time these two teams played without a card in the game was 2004, so we can expect a sin-binning or red-card to have an impact.

From a Scottish perspective, I think Beattie and Laidlaw ought to be looked at as they were the weak links in the Scotland team although both will be retained as the alternatives are either injured or have been left out. If Dunbar's injured we have to hope for a return from Scott or we are fecked, the same with Seymour. If we defend like we did against the French then we should be able to cope with the Welsh as, unless they pick Liam Williams, their attack was very linear and predictable. If Beattie doesn't pick up then Faletau will have a great time but I'm not too worried because he has the ability to match Faletau when he's up for it. I'm also expecting a big game from Hogg given how well he played yesterday and last year's debacle. The Grays will hopefully prove too athletic for Jake Ball although the Welsh back row is a lot more powerful than ours.
I'd go for:

1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Cross
4.  Gray
5. Gray
6. Harley
7. Cowan
8. Beattie
9. SHC - it will be Laidlaw but I've never been impressed by him he's slow, small and takes too long to pass
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Grant
17. Brown
18. Welsh
19. Hamilton
20. Watson
21. Laidlaw
22. Scott
23. Visser/ Lamont if Maitland's not fit

Hardly horrendus. Individually, the English players are in form and some of the best in their positions in Europe at the moment. Okay, plenty wouldn't be first choice but that just shows how good the English strength in depth is. The big potential for downfall was that although great players individually, there was very little experience in terms of player combinations and holistically as a team. Wales did not exploit this. Can you imagine what England would be like if their 1st choice 23 was available and had been playing together to get some kind of continuity?

Wales havent become a bad team overnight. But, their one dimensional style was exposed on Friday. As others have said - sometimes it works for them, sometimes it doesn't. But it needs sorting out. I can see this much improved Scottish team winning at home if Wales don't come up with a Plan B.

Horrendous was a semi-ironic exaggeration but my point was that if you compared their international experience to the Welsh sides (and their ability to play at the Millenium which has a special atmosphere on nights like that) then Wales should have put them away and with relative simplicity. Wales had 11 Lions starting England had 2 (which was the fewest of any of the Home nations), you could make the case for their Second row being the 5th best that played this weekend, nearly a third of their team had never played in the 6 Nations so relative to the Welsh side and the side the English could put out then, whilst horrendous was slightly hyperbolic, on paper, Wales should have won comfortably. I was not prepared to change that opinion retrospectively on the basis of one result; the reaction to the game from the English press and former players has been incredibly disproportional.

There could be worse idea than to bring Barclay at 8 and keep Cowan and Harley in their best positions. That would mean use of latching to make up for the lack of weight in ball carrying. Still better than Beattie droping the ball at any opportunity though.

Actually that's not a bad idea at all especially considering we are never going to bash our way through Wales we might as well try to play around and dominate the break down.

I was also thinking along the lines of a mobile back row, why pick an out of form 'ball carrier' in Beattie when we're never going to beat Wales at their own game. I'd love to see Watson given a shot personally, but that might just be my rapidly developing man crush from watching him play for Edinburgh this season

Beattie did have a shocker, but he offered himself willingly and I don't think he will play that badly again.

Regardless, if we are looking for an in-form 8, there is one sitting twiddling his thumbs in Newcastle. Why Ally Hogg appears to be completely out of the equation is a mystery to me.

My team would be:

Dickinson
Ford
Cross
Gray
Gray
Harley
Cowan
Hogg
Laidlaw (Only just, after his glacial performance)
Russell
Seymour (assuming fitness)
Dunbar (Ditto)
Bennett
Maitland
Hogg

Grant
Brown
Welsh
Hamilton (I actually thought he played very well when he came on)
Watson
SHC
Scott
Lamont

As a Welsh fan who is incredibly confused with what the hell Gatland is doing, we will lose this game if he sticks with the same side as last week, as well as the same usual dire tactics which have proven to be inferior against the top sides for the past 2/3 years. He has to play:

1. James/Evans
2. Hibbard
3. Lee
4. AWJ
5. Charteris
6. Warburton
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau
9. Webb
10. Biggar
11. 1/2p
12. Roberts
13. S.Williams
14. Amos
15. L.Williams

with G.Davies and Anscombe replacing Phillips and Preistland on the bench, JD2 also on the bench.

I wouldn't mind seeing that team get a run out Liam. I'm unsure about Warbs at 6 but Lydiate is out of form so I'd be willing to give it a shot.

Charteris over Ball? Maybe. Don't think Ball has done that badly but Charteris needs some game time at international level. This is the problem with stubborn selection - no one else gets a look in so when they are called they're not used to test rugby!

Amos has come on in leaps and bounds. If North is injured then I'd go for it. Cuthbert is playing badly for the Blues so I'd drop him. Why does Gats then think he'll manage to up it at a higher level??? If North is fit I'd start him though over Amos. We need to get the ball to him more. It wasn't his fault on Friday that he had nothing to play with. Get him in a bit of space, or try varying the game with some kicks to the wing or chips over the top, and a North could come into his own.

Had the medics taken off North, would he have missed the Scotland match due to the concussion protocol?

Liam wrote:As a  as well as the same usual dire tactics which have proven to be inferior against the top sides for the past 2/3 years.

The thing is though you aren't playing one of the top teams! Gatlandball has been successful against Scotland in the past.

Hopefully times are changing, but usually teams know that if they keep their shape and discipline against Scotland then we'll end up letting teams in - whether it's an adverse penalty count, defensive laps or even our own inability to take points when on offer(one of the main reasons vwe lost to France), Scotland always tend to give teams a helping hand along the way.

As I said though - hopefully times are changing! Hopefully...

reallybored wrote:Had the medics taken off North, would he have missed the Scotland match due to the concussion protocol?

Depends if he passed all the stages - he is now apparently undergoing the graduated return and monitoring which takes a minimum of six days. YThis is the same as he would if they had taken him off. they are denying he has any signs of concussion. I do not believe it

Griff wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing that team get a run out Liam. I'm unsure about Warbs at 6 but Lydiate is out of form so I'd be willing to give it a shot.

Charteris over Ball? Maybe. Don't think Ball has done that badly but Charteris needs some game time at international level. This is the problem with stubborn selection - no one else gets a look in so when they are called they're not used to test rugby!

Amos has come on in leaps and bounds. If North is injured then I'd go for it. Cuthbert is playing badly for the Blues so I'd drop him. Why does Gats then think he'll manage to up it at a higher level??? If North is fit I'd start him though over Amos. We need to get the ball to him more. It wasn't his fault on Friday that he had nothing to play with. Get him in a bit of space, or try varying the game with some kicks to the wing or chips over the top, and a North could come into his own.

Lydiate, as you said is playing poor and when Warbs and Tips have played together, they tend to do quite well.

I'd go Charteris not because Ball has played badly, rather to give us a line out option. Feel AWJ and Ball are quite similar players.

Amos has been playing superb, Cuthbert as you said has been playing poorly so can't use his try scoring to paper over his woeful defence. North I can't see playing due to his injuries last week, but I agree we aren't using him in the right way. Why aren't we asking or at least watching what the Saints are doing with him? He was at fault for Joseph's try however.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Liam wrote:As a  as well as the same usual dire tactics which have proven to be inferior against the top sides for the past 2/3 years.

The thing is though you aren't playing one of the top teams! Gatlandball has been successful against Scotland in the past.

Hopefully times are changing, but usually teams know that if they keep their shape and discipline against Scotland then we'll end up letting teams in - whether it's an adverse penalty count, defensive laps or even our own inability to take points when on offer(one of the main reasons vwe lost to France), Scotland always tend to give teams a helping hand along the way.

As I said though - hopefully times are changing! Hopefully...

Completely agree with your point but I would say this Scotland team is vastly improved and will fancy their chances this weekend. Gatland ball doesn't work anymore i'm afraid, and I can honestly see us losing every game apart from Italy possibly away if he doesn't start picking in form players and varying his game plan. getting really sick of it tbh. Unless he's genuinely fooling us all, and has saved a master game plan for the WC which will beat England Oz, which is HIGHLY unlikely! And if he is, its a disgrace to be treating this tournament as a nothing month of rugby.