Should Wales sack Gatland and the coaching staff

Just a simple poll from a simple poster to see what people think

Can you name decent replacements?

IronMike wrote:Can you name decent replacements?

No

They should have been looking for a replacement for ages. If it transpires that North should have been taken off could they fire him without paying him a huge sum?

You could have Scott Johnson back

Declan Kidney?

Simple poll simple answer No.

It's to near the WC for a start but I have said for sometime that Howley and McBryde should go

Good job Roger offering gatland. 7yr contract extension 18 months ago...

Gatland has been in office for a long time now and he has achieved taking Wales to a certain stage but they now seem to be stuck there. He doesn't seem able to take them to the next level.

They are a hostage to fortune at the World Cup, in the same group as England and Australia. One of those three (at least) won't make it through the group. It could just as easily be Wales as anybody else and if that happens, yet another RWC will have drifted by them.

I cannot suggest who Gatland's replacement should be...that's for the WRU to decide.... but I think that by the time the world cup is over, a shake up and fresh approach will be nigh.

My real fear is the WRU already know who Gatlands replacement will be, I am convinced Howley is being lined up to take over.

Like him or loathe (Gatland) that is he his going no where untill his contract is up.

Not with out a MASSIVE PAY OFF ANY WAY.

majesticimperialman wrote:Like him or loathe (Gatland) that is he his going no where untill his contract is up.

Not with out a MASSIVE PAY OFF ANY WAY.

maj,

I don't think he should but he should freshen up his coaches. I can to a degree understand his loyalty to Howley and Edwards given the Wasps link but he has no previous connections with McBryde who as a forwards coach has been pretty poor to say the least.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Like him or loathe (Gatland) that is he his going no where untill his contract is up.

Not with out a MASSIVE PAY OFF ANY WAY.

maj,

I don't think he should but he should freshen up his coaches.  I can to a degree understand his loyalty to Howley and Edwards given the Wasps link but he has no previous connections with McBryde who as a forwards coach has been pretty poor to say the least.

Bedford.

I do agree with you about freshing up his coaching staff. I just think that this kind of thread is laughable really. Wales loose their opening game and people are call for him to be sacked.

I do think he should be brought to task over the George North concussion debate....But this calling for him to be sacked is silly IMO. he is like royalty in Wales for what he as done for Wales since he took over.

Maj,

Any nation thinking of sacking their coach this close to the WC is mad IMO there just not enough time to bed a new coach in.

As for the North issue there seems to be a lot of heated but not much informed debates going on at the moment.  

He apparently passed all the tests they carry out these days and the medics said he was fit to carry on so surely you take the recommendations, after all from what I believe they have the final say now and nothing has come out saying Gatland over ruled the medics.

Who you gonna get to replace him? Make sure you can plus the situation before going elsewhere. I think SCW is available.

Can't saxk him now

If Gatland went after the WC (he won't, and I'm not too fussed either way. He's done a hell of a lot for Welsh rugby) would Dai Young be in the frame? Has done a good job at Wasps and did a decent job at the Blues from what I remember? Was certainly only a few kicks away from a European final there.

JDizzle wrote:If Gatland went after the WC (he won't, and I'm not too fussed either way. He's done a hell of a lot for Welsh rugby) would Dai Young be in the frame? Has done a good job at Wasps and did a decent job at the Blues from what I remember? Was certainly only a few kicks away from a European final there.

JD,

As I mentioned earlier I am utterly convinced that Howley is being lined up to replace Gatland when he goes.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

JDizzle wrote:If Gatland went after the WC (he won't, and I'm not too fussed either way. He's done a hell of a lot for Welsh rugby) would Dai Young be in the frame? Has done a good job at Wasps and did a decent job at the Blues from what I remember? Was certainly only a few kicks away from a European final there.

JD,

As I mentioned earlier I am utterly convinced that Howley is being lined up to replace Gatland when he goes.

Yes, I agree. I wouldn't be shocked. Just trying to think of other feasible options. I don't actually think Howley would be terrible, but sometimes a management team reaches it's sell by date and you need a complete change of philosophy, which Howley won't bring.

I think Howley would be a complete disaster personally.

You can't have the same ideas for more than four years in international rugby. Whether or not you change your coaches your game plan needs to evolve and change. Wales shouldn't consider changing coaching staff until after the WC but it's hard to believe Gatland hasn't tried to freshen up the team and the game plan a bit more.

You need to have a long think about where your team is individually compared to how you are performing, the idea that Gatland's side have stagnated and he can't take you any further is dependent on whether or not your players are actually good enough to go any further. The truth is that you don't have the depth or personnel to regularly compete with South Africa or New Zealand and you can't blame him for that. If you were to look at teams who have been at around your level for the Gatland era such as England, Ireland, France, Australia and Argentina you have not done too badly at all (except against Aus which has become a psychological issue). Think about where you were before he arrived, we've had a succession of urine poor coaches in Scotland since 2003 and it starts to show, I can't think of any coaches of a similar calibre who would want the Wales job atm.

I find it interesting as an England fan that after one game in this year's 6N that people are calling for Gatland's head. Lancaster's team fell apart in 2013, yet look what's happened. Almost had a GS last year but for a breakaway French try and improvements are continuing despite the injury list. He won't be going anywhere until after the World Cup - I have no doubt there is a performance related clause in his (expensive) contract which will mean the only way they can dismiss him is either if he does a Gareth Jenkins, or by mutual consent.

He hasn't done much wrong - Wales had their first win over SA in 15 years (and only their 2nd ever) and despite the bogey team of Australia continuing to feature in the "L" column, they haven't done any worse than England in the Autumn Internationals. He has a victorious Lions tour under his belt and whilst he hasn't exactly got much of a Plan B with the way his team works, there have been some impressive results. With a bit of luck I can see them progressing out of the World Cup group along with England.

One game does not make him a rubbish coach, and I am surprised at those calling for his head.

its too late for this RWC obviously. But wales, in spite of their very talented players, especialy the back division, have become incredibly predictable and limited. Gatland had a good idea and vision that the rest of the rugby world has now more than caught up with.

it was insanity to give him a seven year contract extension. all that guaranteed was a huge payout to Gatland after the more than reasonable chance of Wales getting eliminated at the group stage in RWC, and him getting sacked then.

Dont think Howley is the answer though. Welshmen dont survive long as head coach of the Welsh team. the rivalries and bitterness run too deep between club and union.

But i think there would be plenty of coaches, loads, who would want the Wales job post Gatland, given the talent available in Welsh backline. These coaches would back themselves in their ability to make more of the biggar/roberts/davies/north/cuthbert/1/2P/williams backbone than Gats has done recently.

Gareth Thomas.

If Scotland 18 months ago managed to get Vern Cotter then I'm sure Wales, with recent 6N wins and successful Lions tourists, would have plenty of top-level applicants. I don't necessarily agree with the idea that coaching teams periodically need freshening up in personnel terms though. The All Blacks had Henry and Smith for ages, while Hansen has been there for over ten years. Wales beat SA last time out so I wouldn't panic yet.

EDIT: spelling

Mr Bounce wrote:I find it interesting as an England fan that after one game in this year's 6N that people are calling for Gatland's head. Lancaster's team fell apart in 2013, yet look what's happened. Almost had a GS last year but for a breakaway French try and improvements are continuing despite the injury list. He won't be going anywhere until after the World Cup - I have no doubt there is a performance related clause in his (expensive) contract which will mean the only way they can dismiss him is either if he does a Gareth Jenkins, or by mutual consent.

He hasn't done much wrong - Wales had their first win over SA in 15 years (and only their 2nd ever) and despite the bogey team of Australia continuing to feature in the "L" column, they haven't done any worse than England in the Autumn Internationals. He has a victorious Lions tour under his belt and whilst he hasn't exactly got much of a Plan B with the way his team works, there have been some impressive results. With a bit of luck I can see them progressing out of the World Cup group along with England.

One game does not make him a rubbish coach, and I am surprised at those calling for his head.

do you think this is the first time anyone has questioned Gatland and Gatball?

Wales have done far worse than England in the AIs. england have wins against NZ and 3 out of 4 vs Aus.

the question should be whether a different coach can make more of the resources Welsh rugby has to offer. And i think the answer for quite some time now has been clearly yes.

thomh wrote:If Scotland 18 months ago managed to get Vern Cotter then I'm sure Wales, with recent 6N wins and successful Lions tourists, would have plenty of top-level applicants. I don't necessarily agree with the idea that coaching teams periodically need freshening up in personal terms though. The All Blacks had Henry and Smith for ages, while Hansen has been there for over ten years. Wales beat SA last time out so I woudn't panic yet.

You win some and lose some. If Ireland can get a great degree of consistency then I expect Wales too. So if the occasion calls for it we need to change. I believe our team and players are still very effective, but need to be more consistent.

Danny Wilson - forwards

Darren Edwards - backs

Gatland and Edwards to stay

Jesus Christ Wales beat South Africa and lose a home game to England and half of the people in the poll want Gatlands head. He's the best coach in the world and there is no coach available who is even close to his talents.

Wales have lost to England before, and we'll lose to them again. Considering their depth of talent, the amount of players they have at their disposal it's a minor miracle we beat them at all. The amount of money the English clubs have ANY young player who makes the break through into an Aviva Premiership team is a quality player that would walk into any Welsh regional squad.

I'll be honest I really fancied us to beat them on Friday but it didn't happen there's no need to panic though. Short of a Six Nations whitewash AND elimination at the pool stages of the world cup I can't see Gatland going anywhere unless the All Blacks want him. I'm pretty confident Wales will at least beat Scotland and Italy this year so Gatland need not worry to be honest.

Besides he is going to have a lot of rebuilding to do after the World Cup because Gethin Jenkins, Paul James and Mike Phillips will probably retire, while Luke Charteris and Richard Hibbard may retire also. so either way he is going to have to blood a few players.

best coach in the world - ridiculous.

GavinDragon wrote:Danny Wilson - forwards

Darren Edwards - backs

Gatland and Edwards to stay

Wilson yes.

Darren Edwards Christ no.

Gatland and Edwards to stay yes....but be open to doing some things differently.

Gatland and Edwards to stay yes....but be open to doing some things differently.

Neither have any interest in doing anything differently. You keep Gatland you keep Gatland ball.

Shifty wrote:Jesus Christ Wales beat South Africa and lose a home game to England and half of the people in the poll want Gatlands head.  He's the best coach in the world and there is no coach available who is even close to his talents.  

Wales have lost to England before, and we'll lose to them again.  Considering their depth of talent, the amount of players they have at their disposal it's a minor miracle we beat them at all.  The amount of money the English clubs have ANY young player who makes the break through into an Aviva Premiership team is a quality player that would walk into any Welsh regional squad.  

I'll be honest I really fancied us to beat them on Friday but it didn't happen there's no need to panic though.  Short of a Six Nations whitewash AND elimination at the pool stages of the world cup I can't see Gatland going anywhere unless the All Blacks want him.  I'm pretty confident Wales will at least beat Scotland and Italy this year so Gatland need not worry to be honest.  

Besides he is going to have a lot of rebuilding to do after the World Cup because Gethin Jenkins, Paul James and Mike Phillips will probably retire, while Luke Charteris and Richard Hibbard may retire also.  so either way he is going to have to blood a few players.

Should we be okay with losing our home games though? I don't think we should, especially to 6 Nations opponents. I also don't believe him to be the best coach in the world...but he certainly is one of them. So that's a good position to be in I guess.

We need not worry because we will at least beat Scotland and Italy? That's a bit of a loser attitude. I'm sure team Wales want to win all their remaining games.

Yes those players are pretty much retired already. The rebuilding should have started in shape or form over a year ago, but they're still in the team when there is probably better, younger players playing in Wales. The result of not doing so is a loss.

I think your post kind of sums up what is wrong with the average fan; delusion.

nlpnlp wrote:Gatland and Edwards to stay yes....but be open to doing some things differently.

Neither have any interest in doing anything differently.  You keep Gatland you keep Gatland ball.  

It works well, sometimes. We have seen variation before and it looked pretty good. Friday night was certainly a step backwards and Gatland is supposedly holding back the changes until the RWC warm-ups.

bedfordwelsh wrote:My real fear is the WRU already know who Gatlands replacement will be, I am convinced Howley is being lined up to take over.

201

Correct, Howley will take over and in fairness we have gone backwards since Gatland returned from the lions trip. Howley had the balls to bring back R Jones after being taken appart against Ireland two years ago that would not happen with Gatland in charge.

Looking at the U20's last night we could do with switching the coaches with the senior side the only problem is the line out, scrum and skills will suffer in the U20's, maybe not they are our future.

I voted for a change as everybody else is moving forward, we are standing still and suffering the same issues listed above as well as no plan B.

Wales did beat SA in November, the truth is they should have beaten them twice last year, Argentina should have beaten us last year, Ireland beat us last year.

Beating SA last year wasn't that much of an achievement, we were shyte.

Assuming Wales will beat Scotland is very different this year from previous years. France didnt score a try against them. Glasgow in HC conceded the least tries of any team and i would argue they were in the toughest group.

This is no pushover Scotland, and if Wales think so, then they will lose. wonder whether that might be enough to shake the conviction of the believers in gatball?

Its not because we lost, plenty of people have thought he should have been replaced awhile ago.
Personally I don't really rate him. No doubt he did an on job but wales havnt done very well considering the talent he had(compared to before). We have consistently lost to SH teams under him.
The world cup- yeah we did OK but really all we did is beat ireland, a good result but not that impressive, and samoa. Lost to SA and France.
Main issue I've had with him is blaming individual players in the media, awj liam Williams now Webb. By all means drill them behind closed doors but not publicly. Coward and pathetic leader

quinsforever wrote:Assuming Wales will beat Scotland is very different this year from previous years. France didnt score a try against them. Glasgow in HC conceded the least tries of any team and i would argue they were in the toughest group.

This is no pushover Scotland, and if Wales think so, then they will lose. wonder whether that might be enough to shake the conviction of the believers in gatball?

Do Wales even think that though?

I know what he's up to…since we just beat SA it is now time to dominate the Southern hemisphere as we have down in 6 Nations since 2005, we'll beat NZ and Aus this year, at least once, but i expect we won't be able to beat a NH team anymore. it's all part of the Welsh management plan to urine off the fans and keep them on the permanent roller coaster of inconsistency that has become our lot.

hopefully not saint. but i've read several comments here and in the media assuming the wins against scotland and italy.

so wales probably does think that, although the welsh 23 presumably are a bit more aware?

Oh dear, it's the final ignominy….suggest Wales are now vulnerable to Scotland and even Italy, the benchmark of real failure in the 6 Nations.

Based on what…when did Wales last lose to either side? It may be the fervent desire of some that Wales are now a spent force, about to implode in Edinburgh, but is a fantasy and about as predictable from some posters as Gatlandball.

What is much more likely is that England will put themselves into a position to win the 6 Nations, again, perhaps even with a Slam, but then squander it, again, and spend the next 11 months telling us how coming 2nd suggests consistency, which apparently is much more indicative of success in this fundamentally flawed 6 Nations competition, than winning it is.

oh dear gwlad. you appear to be railing against thin air.

assume scotland are a walkover at your peril.

Scotalnd might have beaten the ABs had they had a bit more self belief come 65 mins. france couldnt score a try against them. glasgow have conceded least tries in the entire HC with a pool of Bath (who scored 5 away against toulouse!), Toulouse and Montepellier.

quinsforever wrote:oh dear gwlad. you appear to be railing against thin air.

assume scotland are a walkover at your peril.

Scotalnd might have beaten the ABs had they had a bit more self belief come 65 mins. france couldnt score a try against them. glasgow have conceded least tries in the entire HC with a pool of Bath (who scored 5 away against toulouse!), Toulouse and Montepellier.

Believing we will win does not assume we believe the Scots are a walkover. Attempting to polarize the issue that way indicates a bias that is hard to justify, unless it is based on a desire for Wales to lose.

i was responding to an earlier post which assume the scotland and italy games were in the bag already. as your post also did.

just because you've beaten the last 10 years or whatever doesnt mean its going to continue.. you have to pay attention to the details of their players and results under their new coaching setup.

i want wales to win. grew up 100m from CAP.

but gatland is holding wales back now.

Oh look - its the "you hate Wales brigade" grow up FFS!

If Wales lose to Scotland Gatland should be sacked immediately

quinsforever wrote:i was responding to an earlier post which assume the scotland and italy games were in the bag already. as your post also did.

just because you've beaten the last 10 years or whatever doesnt mean its going to continue.. you have to pay attention to the details of their players and results under their new coaching setup.

i want wales to win. grew up 100m from CAP.

but gatland is holding wales back now.

I don't disagree, this week.

In 2 weeks i might if we beat Scots and French which likely we can/will do. point is as a welshie you become used to the inconsistency, the feast or famine. Our biggest failing is consistency, something, in terms of 6N placing at least, England does not suffer from.

Gatland is the most successful 6 Nations coach, period. Point is he engineers huge victories, when the week before we have often played like puff less dragons.

I think much more responsibility should be placed on the players performances or lack thereof. And in this case lets credit England for a simply wonderful performance, especially that of Ford who i think is world class. And some more sacred cows need slaughtering in Cardiff. North and Cuthbert need a rest, lets bring back a nippy winger or at least have some semblance of creativity out there. North can sub his way back into contention.

quinsforever wrote:hopefully not saint. but i've read several comments here and in the media assuming the wins against scotland and italy.

so wales probably does think that, although the welsh 23 presumably are a bit more aware?

I don't think I've read anything too bad. I'm confident of beating both home and away these days, I guess that makes me arrogant and delusional or something. Gwlad actually picked up on one or two points in those posts. There seems to be a few posters assuming we're going to lose to both teams....based on a loss to a good team (England). England also happen to be a big step up from Scotland and Italy so I can't understand the logic there. The team won't be taking any opponent lightly, but losing to either would indicate a huge backwards step.